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Okay. I think it’s fairly safe to assume that not a single human being actually called Sentinel Prime a “machine” to his face during Sentinel’s brief tenure on Earth. So where did Sentinel get the notion that humans in general think that Cybertronians are nothing but extravagant weed whackers and what exactly was it that got his aft plates so toasted that he felt the need to verbalize his disgust with our supposed contempt?

There was only one bona fide reference to anti-Transformers sentiment in DOTM that I noticed and that was during the aborted interview scene with Seymour Simmons. In that one, the interviewer did make reference to a unsupportive poll and views by some that the Autobots were nothing but mercenaries. I suppose you could also interpret that the spontaneous clapping that erupted in the NASA control room when the Autobots were in fact later exiled and blasted off into space was likewise indicative of anti-Transformers sentiment. On the other hand, the clappers might have just been oblivious folks who were really, REALLY focused on their job and who were just happy over having just achieved another successful launch, so that example I’d rate as kinda iffy. But aside from that? Where? Where was the disrespect, Sentinel Prime? (Charlotte Mearing doesn't count. Poor woman was just doing her job.) Where did you go and what did you see and hear to develop such a hate-on for us?

Personally, I think Sentinel must’ve tapped into the late-night TV broadcasts and watched one nasty talk show too many. What do YOU think, though? How many people in the movieverse might genuinely hate or disapprove of Transformers in general and the Autobots’ continued presence and/or actions in particular and how might such feelings be expressed? Do the Autobots, even though USA immigrants of sorts, even have rights when it comes to the spreading of hatred against them or even simple ridicule? Has extending such never even been considered, which (sadly) would support the notion that they really are just viewed as machines and useful assets, even by the higher-ups? Or are they fair game, from anyone? From anywhere on the planet? Or do different countries regard them differently?

Bay insisted on mixing up his movieverse with the real world so feel free to make specific (and silly) references should you wish to carry this further. Me, I’m guessing that it was David Letterman’s scathing Top 10 list of reasons a robot needs facial hair that finally tipped Sentinel over into the lathering rage he displayed onscreen.

I think the bottom line was Sentinel saving Cybertron at the cost of Earth, and he viewed humans as inferior. His remarks might not even have been brought on by humans being disrespectful or disdainful towards Transformers, even if they were. He isn't destroying Earth to fight back against humans, he's doing it to save Cybertron. In the end, that line about them being "just machines" was just a small remark in the heat of battle, not really having any significant meaning.

He also mentions that they where considered gods on Cybertron, now he sees a Prime treating humans as equals. I should think that something like that gets to Sentinel.

RhA: That's a good point. I hadn't considered it.

It would certainly help explain Sentinel's rapid shift in attitude towards Optimus (besides his equally rapid descent into megalomania, I mean!). That line about Optimus 'forgetting his place' just before the two of them really went at it, for example...sheesh...like he'd already mentally reduced Optimus to the same level as us uppity humans. Makes you wonder if anything Sentinel said before he turned was sincerely meant or whether it wasn't all just carefully crafted platitudes from the very beginning.

Slightly off-topic, but I have a problem with Lennox calling the Autobots "things."

When he explains to Meering about how TF's function, he said something like, "...these things run on energon."

After fighting side-by-side and developing a relationship with them as comrades, it's really jarring to hear him call them "things."

And after Sentinel makes off with the pillars, he says, "We've got to track that thing down."

While not inappropriate given the fact that Sentinel just turned on them, it sounds unnatural. I mean, if the humans knew nothing of TF's then they'd probably call them things, like how that burly soldier in TF1 called Brawl/Devastator "that tank thing."

I would have sounded much more realistic if he'd simply said, "We've got to track that bastard/SOB down."

SKYWARPED 128: Not off-topic at all! Anti-Transformers sentiment amongst humans is what this threads about, after all.

I too noted that Lennox referred to the Autobots as ‘things’ when speaking to Mearing during that one scene and found it not so much jarring myself as just kind of sad. Sad, because I quite like Lennox as a character—I wish they’d done more with him—and because I believe that it reveals that, despite all his experience with the Autobots, he just doesn’t have the imagination and/or knowledge to overcome his subconscious human egocentricity and fully accept that intelligent beings could evolve and exist within radically different bodily designs than his own. I suspect that most humans would be like that if Cybertronians really did live amongst us…not intending to be demeaning with their word choices, perhaps, but still… It’s hard enough for many of us to accept strangers even if they’re just other people made of flesh and blood, let alone if they were people made of alien amorphous alloys.

The phrase ‘that thing’ in reference to Sentinel didn’t bug me as much since its use there seemed deliberately (and understandably) demeaning. It’s something I’ve heard applied to our own worst mass murderers and depraved thrill killers often enough—“monster”, “sub-human”, “thing”—in an attempt to divorce them from humanity, so I suppose you could argue that in a weird way Sentinel was being granted equal status with our own species’ worst at that particular moment!

Like you, though, I would have preferred hearing Sentinel referred to as “that bastard” or, better yet, “that backstabbing bastard”. And I really do wish that Lennox had said that “these people run on energon”.

Biddybot wrote: Makes you wonder if anything Sentinel said before he turned was sincerely meant or whether it wasn't all just carefully crafted platitudes from the very beginning.

It was all planned. He admitted as much right before shooting Ironhide in the back. Remember the line "...a deal had to be made...with Megatron!" Sentinel planned to come to Earth to plunder it, and then meet with Megatron here. This was confirmed by Megatron right before he blew Lincoln away. The only thing I don't understand is that if Sentinel's "escape" from Cybertron was staged so he could come to Earth, why didn't the Decepticons let him get away instead of attack and cripple the Ark? Or was it truly crippled, or just a very elaborate act to make it look like the space bridge was lost forever?

Biddybot wrote:The phrase ‘that thing’ in reference to Sentinel didn’t bug me as much since its use there seemed deliberately (and understandably) demeaning. It’s something I’ve heard applied to our own worst mass murderers and depraved thrill killers often enough—“monster”, “sub-human”, “thing”—in an attempt to divorce them from humanity, so I suppose you could argue that in a weird way Sentinel was being granted equal status with our own species’ worst at that particular moment!

I always thought he was referring to the control pillar of the space bridge, and not Sentinel. But it makes more sense that he was talking about Sentinel.

And I really do wish that Lennox had said that “these people run on energon”.

Given that he's a soldier and so are the Autobots, they're friends, I think the perfect phrase would have been "...these guys run on energon."

My view is that SP gained his Earth knowledge like everybody else and saw some things that led to people saying that the Cybertronians were just mere things. If the humans were too much hateful against him and his kind, why should he be respectful back? After all, he saw that humans hated and feared them such as like in X-Men, humans hating against the mutants. He was destroying Earth for the sake of Cybertron, but he was an ally to Megatron. And Megatron didn't like humans from what I gathered from the first movie mainly because he was a racist. He didn't like that we aged, weren't 40 feet tall, weren't made of metal but instead of flesh and bone and over the fact that we just couldn't transform. Then from the second movie, he hated us because we were just in the way while he had to blow our sun up for energon. My point is, Sp gained a hateful perspective from talking to Megatron and seeing the wrong things from gathering his knowledge instead of just trusting us and putting his hope on how useful we could be to helping him on fighting the Decepticons.

Biddybot wrote:SKYWARPED 128: Not off-topic at all! Anti-Transformers sentiment amongst humans is what this threads about, after all.

I too noted that Lennox referred to the Autobots as ‘things’ when speaking to Mearing during that one scene and found it not so much jarring myself as just kind of sad. Sad, because I quite like Lennox as a character—I wish they’d done more with him—and because I believe that it reveals that, despite all his experience with the Autobots, he just doesn’t have the imagination and/or knowledge to overcome his subconscious human egocentricity and fully accept that intelligent beings could evolve and exist within radically different bodily designs than his own. I suspect that most humans would be like that if Cybertronians really did live amongst us…not intending to be demeaning with their word choices, perhaps, but still… It’s hard enough for many of us to accept strangers even if they’re just other people made of flesh and blood, let alone if they were people made of alien amorphous alloys.

The phrase ‘that thing’ in reference to Sentinel didn’t bug me as much since its use there seemed deliberately (and understandably) demeaning. It’s something I’ve heard applied to our own worst mass murderers and depraved thrill killers often enough—“monster”, “sub-human”, “thing”—in an attempt to divorce them from humanity, so I suppose you could argue that in a weird way Sentinel was being granted equal status with our own species’ worst at that particular moment!

Like you, though, I would have preferred hearing Sentinel referred to as “that bastard” or, better yet, “that backstabbing bastard”. And I really do wish that Lennox had said that “these people run on energon”.

Yeah, come to think of it, it's pretty sad that after all they've been through, Lennox still regards them as less than equals.

That said, I do wonder if it's just a product of bad or just lazy dialogue.

As for Sentinel, you've got a good point there. It's just that the choice of the word seems awkward. IMO, words like "monster" or "thing" or even "animal" are used more by the printed media like newspapers or prose in novels to depict inhumane people. When spoken, people tend to use curse words or derogatory terms more often, such as calling the German soldiers in WWII "Nazi motherf@#kers" or "those f%#king Kr@uts."

If the humans had made a derogatory term for Cybertronians, it might be more natural to use it to refer to Sentinel that way.

Either way, calling Sentinel "thing" just doesn't sound right to the ears.