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Interviews with the developers of Square Enix’s new Nier franchise reveal a bizarre development saga in which arguments over whether western audiences could stomach a typical girly JRPG lead eventually lead to the company making two versions of the game.

Square Enix’s new “Nier” franchise launched with two games, Gestalt (PS3/360) and Replicant (PS3), each with radically differnet character designs for the hero; however only Gestalt was released in the west, as “Nier” – comparisons of the two attracted some attention.

The interview concerning this odd decision included publisher Square Enix’s Executive Producer Yosuke Saito, and developer Cavia’s Nier director Taro Yoko:

Saito: We were initially planning an Xbox 360 target, which we expanded to PS3 multiplatform afterwards. However, the production process turned out to be quite storied.

Yoko: At first we were just doing the youthful protagonist version (which became “Replicant”), but Square Enix started taking talking about international markets during development.

Yoko: In fact, an argument erupted at Square Enix’s Los Angeles studio, over whether a thin looking male character [hereafter translated as “girly”] was possible for the game. For the North American consumers, it was decided to provide a macho main.

Yoko: A heated discussion ensued once the American and European staff were gathered to discuss it. It was said that “A slender and girly protagonist like this couldn’t possibly swing a huge sword like that, it’s ridiculous.” Certainly, if you look at American games it’s always muscle bound mains who look like they play American football.

Saito: We thought that as it’s a new IP, it really must sell, and we were persuaded [by the Japanese staff’s desire to make a girly lead] – we opted to leave the Japanese version with the girly character, and instead make two different versions.

Saito: We did realize that not all international audiences are the same though – it was thought that Replicant [the girly version] might be suitable for the French, as they have a greater appreciation of Japanese culture.

Yoko: That meeting was pretty amazing. A lot of people were arguing for making only the macho old guy version for cost reasons, and we [the Japanese developers] were saying “But if we don’t make a girly version we’ll lose heart and it’ll take even longer.”

Saito: As a result, the Japanese PS3 version only became the girly version, and both PS3 and Xbox 360 international version were the macho old guy versions.
Curiously, the obvious choice of eschewing the entire “Epic vs Enix” problem by just making universally sexy Kainé the protagonist seems not to have occurred to them, although considering the approach they took to depicting her in the US comics this is perhaps for the best.

The obsession Japanese RPG publishers have with supplying western audiences with its crude interpretation of the muscle bound heroes they see as key to the success of American games seems almost pathological – Square Enix actually made two games rather than have to risk releasing an insufficiently masculine lead to supposedly testosterone loving American audiences.

Unfortunately for both supporters and detractors of macho protagonists, the Nier games have received mediocre reviews and would likely have sunk without trace were it not for the cunning inclusion of ...Kainé – finally proving whether western audiences (apparently shorthand for “American audiences” amongst RPG publishers) really can’t stomach girly androgynous protagonists will have to wait.

Dead Metal wrote:It's about blooming time, I'm sick and tiered of the weird JRPG character designs "Yea this is really a guy, please disregard the feminine face, body build, hair and body language".
God dammit, Ripley from Alien looks, acts and is more manly than all these JRPG characters put together and she is a sex lady.

Ripley demotivational.jpg

Diem wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:It's about blooming time, I'm sick and tiered of the weird JRPG character designs "Yea this is really a guy, please disregard the feminine face, body build, hair and body language".
God dammit, Ripley from Alien looks, acts and is more manly than all these JRPG characters put together and she is a sex lady.

Ripley demotivational.jpg

What's wrong with the Japanese putting the style that they consider handsome for men into their own games? Walk through Kabukicho (a host bar district) on a Saturday night and you'll see dozens of men whose job it is to be attractive looking like Cloud or even Tidus.

Amelie wrote:Personally I'd prefer the sexism to stop in both directions in computer games. I'm tired of games being advertised on the attractiveness of the lead characters rather than the gameplay - when I see it happen I actually make a point of not buying the game. Nothing turns me off buying something quicker than "sex".

Final Fantasy IX I often use is a case in point. I've spoken to a lot of game players that stated they thought IX was the worst because they "didn't like the monkey-tail design". When I asked what they thought about the actual gameplay (y'know - the important bit) I often hear they prefered the battle system to VIII and sometimes even VII or (amusingly) they didn't play the game at all because of the character design.

If I want to watch pornography, I'll watch pornography - not stare at a some graphic artist's latest wet-dream.

Dead Metal wrote:

Diem wrote:What's wrong with the Japanese putting the style that they consider handsome for men into their own games? Walk through Kabukicho (a host bar district) on a Saturday night and you'll see dozens of men whose job it is to be attractive looking like Cloud or even Tidus.

I don't want pretty boy action heroes, they are supposed to be badass fighters who get into fights, but they don't look like that. They look like they robbed a little girls wardrobe and makeup.

Amelie wrote:Personally I'd prefer the sexism to stop in both directions in computer games. I'm tired of games being advertised on the attractiveness of the lead characters rather than the gameplay - when I see it happen I actually make a point of not buying the game. Nothing turns me off buying something quicker than "sex".

Final Fantasy IX I often use is a case in point. I've spoken to a lot of game players that stated they thought IX was the worst because they "didn't like the monkey-tail design". When I asked what they thought about the actual gameplay (y'know - the important bit) I often hear they prefered the battle system to VIII and sometimes even VII or (amusingly) they didn't play the game at all because of the character design.

If I want to watch pornography, I'll watch pornography - not stare at a some graphic artist's latest wet-dream.

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

Diem wrote:What's wrong with the Japanese putting the style that they consider handsome for men into their own games? Walk through Kabukicho (a host bar district) on a Saturday night and you'll see dozens of men whose job it is to be attractive looking like Cloud or even Tidus.

I don't want pretty boy action heroes, they are supposed to be badass fighters who get into fights, but they don't look like that. They look like they robbed a little girls wardrobe and makeup.

You didn't even bother reading Diem's post, did you? he just explained that "pretty boys" are what Japan considers attractive.

That said, what matters isn't the hero's hair or his clothes, but the amount of ass he kicks. Look at Cloud, he's a pale, pointy-haired stick figure, but he can out-maneuver Spider-Man and wields an unrealistically large sword like it's made of plastic. And lets not forget that getting shot in the face only made him flinch, and getting shot through the torso later on only made stumble for a moment.

Dead Metal wrote:I read his post and I understood that girly boys are attractive in Japan, I just don't want game characters that are designed to look attractive or lets say so much over designed that they look nothing like what they're supposed to do.

That guy from Resident evil, don't know his name he's also in Degeneration, he looks kinda attractive without looking like he just robbed Barby of her close, that's because he was designed to fit into a game in which he'll have to fight monsters and not a porno.

Shadowman wrote:I haven't played IX, only because I missed out on a lot of stuff during the PS1 era. Fortunately, that PSN release is coming soon. (Already out in Japan, should be out very soon here)

If you like your characters to have developed personalities (ie - they actually change\mature, something a lot of RPGs actually lack - events seem to have no effect on them. "oh, look - we've just blown up a reactor and killed innocent lives, but that's OK) and a rigid character and equipment system that adds heaps of depth to the battle-system - this is the FF for you.

I can't stress how much I enjoy this game. Simply because changing one character in a group of four has an enormous impact of party tactics.

PS - when you get it, I hope you get to Ozma.

Amelie wrote:I can't stress how much I enjoy this game. Simply because changing one character in a group of four has an enormous impact of party tactics.

Amelie wrote:PS - when you get it, I hope you get to Ozma.

Shadowman wrote:

Amelie wrote:I can't stress how much I enjoy this game. Simply because changing one character in a group of four has an enormous impact of party tactics.

Okay, so the fact that they went back to the four-man-party escaped me. I guess I should be more excited, but then I did just fine with a three-man-party in 7, 8, and 10.

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I read his post and I understood that girly boys are attractive in Japan, I just don't want game characters that are designed to look attractive or lets say so much over designed that they look nothing like what they're supposed to do.

That guy from Resident evil, don't know his name he's also in Degeneration, he looks kinda attractive without looking like he just robbed Barby of her close, that's because he was designed to fit into a game in which he'll have to fight monsters and not a porno.

I'm going to go ahead and stop the conversation here. You're exaggerating way too much to even make sense. "Robbed Barbie of her clothes"? Who are you even talking about? I can't recall even one main character in Final Fantasy who wore anything resembling women's clothing. Except for Terra, at least.

(Leon Kennedy, by the way. Not nearly as badass as Chris, Jill, or Wesker)

Dead Metal wrote:I also dislike characters that look overly "badass awesome" with ridicules swords that are roughly the same size as them best example:

darksiders1.jpg

I hate this design, it is not cool and I'm pretty sick of giant over-designed swords that couldn't cut shite due to the designers never even seeing one. Sure Darksiders is a really good game, but the characters are horrible and over designed and the weapons look ridicules, was the game designed by a 13 year old who thinks that shite is "cool" or "awesome"?

Dead Metal wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I read his post and I understood that girly boys are attractive in Japan, I just don't want game characters that are designed to look attractive or lets say so much over designed that they look nothing like what they're supposed to do.

That guy from Resident evil, don't know his name he's also in Degeneration, he looks kinda attractive without looking like he just robbed Barby of her close, that's because he was designed to fit into a game in which he'll have to fight monsters and not a porno.

I'm going to go ahead and stop the conversation here. You're exaggerating way too much to even make sense. "Robbed Barbie of her clothes"? Who are you even talking about? I can't recall even one main character in Final Fantasy who wore anything resembling women's clothing. Except for Terra, at least.

(Leon Kennedy, by the way. Not nearly as badass as Chris, Jill, or Wesker)

I'm talking of Nier with the whole girlishness.

City Commander wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I'm talking of Nier with the whole girlishness.

I'd take the PS3 version over the 360 any day. Who actually believes that men look like that? I'm pretty sure our skulls don't have that huge brow anymore. At least, most men I've met don't...