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"What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Transformers 3 is scheduled to be released on July 1st, 2011. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

"What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Cthulhunicron » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:39 pm

I find this to be a very weak argument in defense of the Transformers trilogy. No, I wasn't expecting Shakespeare, or deep intricate plotlines making some kind of powerful statement about the human condition, all I was expecting were entertaining movies with storylines that made sense and non-atrocious dialogue. The movies failed to deliver this, so therefore, I was disappointed. There are plenty of action/sci-fi movies that I enjoy that are definitely not Shakespearian, but they at least make sense.

However, I don't completely hate these movies. I do admit that I like watching the action scenes, and I generally liked how the transformers themselves were depicted, especially the Decepticons. However, the overall experience of the trilogy is severely damaged by the over-the-top and completely humorless attempts at comic relief and by an extremely convoluted and illogical plot.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Screamfleet » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:09 pm

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Who goes to the movies to see Shakespeare anyway?
I mean, honestly it's a terrible argument. If it was shakespeare meets transformers, I wouldn't go. It might be funny to hear optimus prime reciete some soliloquies using the iambic pentameter. Or Megatron doing some hendecasyllable sonnets. Really, though, that's not something I want to see for 2 hours. So no, I'm not expecting shakespeare.
Even the Kings Speech isn't shakespeare, but it's still got better dialogue and jokes than DOTM.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:53 pm

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I don't necessarily think anyone truly expected "Shakespeare" writing when seeing these movies. For the most part i believe that the argument is that sometimes people have a certain expectation of writing and dialog in these movies. The problem is the source material its based on, and nearly every TV show incarnation has never really eclipsed in any sort of high level of writing.

I know people like to use beast wars as examples of good TF writing and such, but if that's the only form of decent writing and dialog you can pull out of 25+ yrs of TF, then,.. well,.... there's some sort of flaw in the system that is TF story telling. I don't count comics or any written material since that is conveyed completely different than what is scene on screen and there for i don't believe is a fair comparison.

This is a hobby many of us have been dedicated to since its introduction. Though its been going fairly good, the movies have brought them into the main light for all the general public in a way that we hadn't scene before. I understand with some that these movies are in a sense "explanation" or "justification" for our hobby that many don't, or wouldn't understand before the trilogy (Being 29, its not always easy to explain to people that essentially i still "Play" with toys). So many hope with a great story, people would be more understanding and accepting and see our hobby as more than "fart jokes, sexual innuendos (sp?) and some random bots that change into a bunch of military vehicles and GM products. But you know what? Who cares? TF for me growing up have always been about one thing. Transforming cars, trucks and planes doing battle against each other. And thats what we got with the movies. Stunning visuals, kick ass action, some humor to break it all up. These movies are far from perfect, but to honest, I've never been more proud to be a TF fan than after DOTM. I still believe that Bay and Co. did a pretty bang up job considering what they had to work with.


As for the humor, i guess thats all personal preference. personally, i didn't have a problem with any of it, but i can see where some of it was over the top.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby vegetacron » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:28 pm

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As the great Topless Robot has said:

Who cares if the plot sucks? It's an action movie!
I care. As it turns out, I prefer it when my movies have good action scenes and a decent plot. I'm greedy that way.

Why are you bitching that the Transformers movie is stupid when the original cartoon is just as stupid?
Because the '80s Transformers cartoon didn't have a $300 million budget and wasn't supposed to appeal to millions of viewers of many ages in several countries. I think having slightly higher standards for the live-action movie is pretty reasonable.

Do you really expect a great story from a movie based on a toy cartoon?
No. But a decent story? A so-so story? A story that isn't relentlessly stupid? Yeah, I think I'd like that.

Who cares if it's dumb? This movie is for kids!
I think the lingering shots of Rosie Huntington-Whiteley's almost bare ass and the incredibly graphic violence indicate the movie is not solely for kids. And as it turns out, it is legal to have a non-ludicrously dumb plot, characterizations instead of accents, and even mediocre acting in kids movies sometimes. I looked it up.

Do you expect TF3 to be Citizen Kane? It's a turn-off-your-brain summer popcorn flick!
Of course not. But there's a pretty wide range between your standard summer fare and Citizen Kane, and just because I don't want my movie to be so stupid that I can't stop thinking about how dumb it is doesn't mean I need it to be some art house flick. Here's a summer popcorn flick for you: Thor. Was Thor dumb? No, but it wasn't smart. And it wasn't so dumb I was too distracted by horrible plot holes to enjoy the movie. I like not-smart movies. Love 'em, in fact. I don't need all movies to be as clever as Citizen Kane. I just need them to not be insanely stupid.

Why can't you just enjoy the spectacle, man?
Because spectacle is infinitely more spectacular if it's part of a story that makes a modicum of sense and characters that I give the tiniest **** about.


Do i agree with all of it? Not anymore, im just enjoying the wave of Transformers goodness, no matter how inaccurate it is. Yes, it didn't translate from the source material too well, but ya know what? it is what it is. Just enjoy it and hope that the 4th film or a reboot gets a new direction that is more faithful to the source material.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Anonymous. » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:45 pm

Compared to the other summer movies, DOTM blew away Thor and Green Lantern. A bit better than Fast Five, and on par with X-Men First Class.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Prime Riblet » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:30 pm

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Blurrz wrote:Compared to the other summer movies, DOTM blew away Thor and Green Lantern. A bit better than Fast Five, and on par with X-Men First Class.


I agree with you on this. As a summer Blockbuster, I had a good time watching the flick. The story wasn't too bad and the action was good. I enjoyed watching it, and that is really what it boils down to. Did it live up to every hope I had? No it did not. Did I think it was a fun watch? Yes I did.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby SlyTF1 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:40 pm

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Michael Bay > Shakespeare

Citizen Kane < All 3 TF movies.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Starscream GaGa » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:34 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:Michael Bay > Shakespeare

Citizen Kane < All 3 TF movies.

Yeah, don't do that. Its more than a bit trolly.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby dinogeist » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:03 pm

For me,the main problem was all the corny/cheesy/outdated dialogue tha came out of the actors/actresses mouths in the live action TF movie.
the worst offenders were Sam,sam's friends,mikea/carly,& sam's parents,wheelie,twins,brains & eddie that nest guy.

The plots/stories weren't that bad,for me.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Cthulhunicron » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:55 pm

Dark of the Moon on par with X-Men First Class? That's hilarious.

The Topless Robot quote pretty much summed up my initial argument.

I realize Transformers media has never been known for great writing and I do enjoy watching the Michael Bay movies on a superficial level, but I will never claim that they are good movies. They're incredibly stupid movies that have well done action scenes. the only way I can really watch them is by fast forwarding all the "comic relief" scenes.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby dinogeist » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:58 pm

Cthulhunicron wrote:Dark of the Moon on par with X-Men First Class? That's hilarious.

The Topless Robot quote pretty much summed up my initial argument.

I realize Transformers media has never been known for great writing and I do enjoy watching the Michael Bay movies on a superficial level, but I will never claim that they are good movies. They're incredibly stupid movies that have well done action scenes. the only way I can really watch them is by fast forwarding all the "comic relief" scenes.


my main motivation reason,is for the state of the art advanced CGI Robots designs & watching robot VS robot fight scenes.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Anonymous. » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:30 am

Cthulhunicron wrote:Dark of the Moon on par with X-Men First Class? That's hilarious.


I went through First Class twice, and I'll say that it's a fantastic movie, probably one of the best Marvel movies so far. However, it did have it's flaws, which I won't dwelve into now. Didn't really mean to say that DOTM = First Class. FC is much better, but it's still at that point where DOTM is respectable, and far better than the previous two TF movies.

And this comes from a person who's been following Green Lantern and X-Men far longer than Transformers.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby vegetacron » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:46 am

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If its any consolation, i thought Brains was holy hell friggin hilarious. Everytime that little sh!t said somethin, i couldn't quit giggling like a ****** school girl.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Master Renegade » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:35 am

Cthulhunicron wrote:I find this to be a very weak argument in defense of the Transformers trilogy.


Finally, I find others who find that defense to be weak, though I'd use insane. Any movie where you have to "shut off your brain" is, by definition, a bad movie as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who uses that phrase in a movie's defense has just made my point for me.

Fortunately, since Michael Bay has apparently said he will not be directing any more of these, I won't have to suffer through any movies that don't reboot the series. I used to look forward to the possibility of a live-action TF movie. Now I hate the idea more than words can describe.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby vegetacron » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:45 am

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Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.

I think for the most part, this is what the difference is between a random movie fan and a "genre" or "franchise" is about. The optimist and the pessimist.

The movie fan in me wants to rant and rave at how terrible these movies are.

The franchise fan in me says, "Yeah, stuff was pretty bad, but theres a whole lot that liked."

This has given me an idea for a new thread! :)
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Master Renegade » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:51 am

vegetacron wrote:Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.


That's just it. I can't find a single redeeming feature in ANY of them. Not one. There was nothing I liked about them. At best, I may have been indifferent to a few elements.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby NTESHFT » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:33 pm

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I gotta say since everyone else has put their two cents in on this that I liked the movie. Yes, to me, it was better than Thor, I liked it as equal a Green Lantern (Hail DC Universe), but I did like Fast Five a little better. Sorry, I like fast cars, too. I haven't seen first Class, yet, but I have heard enough to know I can wait for it to come out on BD. And yes, I read comics, too. I love DC and read plenty of Marvel.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby No Death for Prowl » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:29 pm

Master Renegade wrote:
vegetacron wrote:Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.


That's just it. I can't find a single redeeming feature in ANY of them. Not one. There was nothing I liked about them. At best, I may have been indifferent to a few elements.


Oh come on, that's not really fair.

The introduction of Blackout should have left even the most stubborn Geewuner giddy as a gorilla in a banana factory.

The city battle at the end of the first movie was more suspenseful than the last 2 movies combined.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby SlyTF1 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:31 pm

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No Death for Prowl wrote:
Master Renegade wrote:
vegetacron wrote:Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.


That's just it. I can't find a single redeeming feature in ANY of them. Not one. There was nothing I liked about them. At best, I may have been indifferent to a few elements.


Oh come on, that's not really fair.

The introduction of Blackout should have left even the most stubborn Geewuner giddy as a gorilla in a banana factory.

The city battle at the end of the first movie was more suspenseful than the last 2 movies combined.


...no it wasn't. It was just Sam running from Megatron! At least in ROTF and DOTM they had some moments where they where actually fighting back.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby No Death for Prowl » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:44 pm

SlyTF1 wrote:
No Death for Prowl wrote:
Master Renegade wrote:
vegetacron wrote:Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.


That's just it. I can't find a single redeeming feature in ANY of them. Not one. There was nothing I liked about them. At best, I may have been indifferent to a few elements.


Oh come on, that's not really fair.

The introduction of Blackout should have left even the most stubborn Geewuner giddy as a gorilla in a banana factory.

The city battle at the end of the first movie was more suspenseful than the last 2 movies combined.


...no it wasn't. It was just Sam running from Megatron! At least in ROTF and DOTM they had some moments where they where actually fighting back.


There was a sense of dread and uncertainty during the city battle because it seemed like the Decepticons actually had a chance to win.

I never believed to be the case in ROTF nor DOTM.

Once Optimus showed up, you knew the battle was over.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby SlyTF1 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:45 pm

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No Death for Prowl wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
No Death for Prowl wrote:
Master Renegade wrote:
vegetacron wrote:Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.


That's just it. I can't find a single redeeming feature in ANY of them. Not one. There was nothing I liked about them. At best, I may have been indifferent to a few elements.


Oh come on, that's not really fair.

The introduction of Blackout should have left even the most stubborn Geewuner giddy as a gorilla in a banana factory.

The city battle at the end of the first movie was more suspenseful than the last 2 movies combined.


...no it wasn't. It was just Sam running from Megatron! At least in ROTF and DOTM they had some moments where they where actually fighting back.


There was a sense of dread and uncertainty during the city battle because it seemed like the Decepticons actually had a chance to win.

I never believed to be the case in ROTF nor DOTM.

Once Optimus showed up, you knew the battle was over.


The only time I thought they where going to win was in ROTF. I thought they where going to bring back Optimus in the next movie.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby No Death for Prowl » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:55 pm

SlyTF1 wrote:
No Death for Prowl wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
No Death for Prowl wrote:
Master Renegade wrote:
vegetacron wrote:Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.


That's just it. I can't find a single redeeming feature in ANY of them. Not one. There was nothing I liked about them. At best, I may have been indifferent to a few elements.


Oh come on, that's not really fair.

The introduction of Blackout should have left even the most stubborn Geewuner giddy as a gorilla in a banana factory.

The city battle at the end of the first movie was more suspenseful than the last 2 movies combined.


...no it wasn't. It was just Sam running from Megatron! At least in ROTF and DOTM they had some moments where they where actually fighting back.


There was a sense of dread and uncertainty during the city battle because it seemed like the Decepticons actually had a chance to win.

I never believed to be the case in ROTF nor DOTM.

Once Optimus showed up, you knew the battle was over.


The only time I thought they where going to win was in ROTF. I thought they where going to bring back Optimus in the next movie.


I agree that's what should have occurred to end the movie with a bad guys' momentary victory, a la The Empire Strikes Back.

But almost as soon as Prime died, they were looking (and found) a way to revive him.

His (short) death was never allowed to make much of an impact.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby SlyTF1 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:57 pm

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No Death for Prowl wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
No Death for Prowl wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
No Death for Prowl wrote:
Master Renegade wrote:
vegetacron wrote:Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.


That's just it. I can't find a single redeeming feature in ANY of them. Not one. There was nothing I liked about them. At best, I may have been indifferent to a few elements.


Oh come on, that's not really fair.

The introduction of Blackout should have left even the most stubborn Geewuner giddy as a gorilla in a banana factory.

The city battle at the end of the first movie was more suspenseful than the last 2 movies combined.


...no it wasn't. It was just Sam running from Megatron! At least in ROTF and DOTM they had some moments where they where actually fighting back.


There was a sense of dread and uncertainty during the city battle because it seemed like the Decepticons actually had a chance to win.

I never believed to be the case in ROTF nor DOTM.

Once Optimus showed up, you knew the battle was over.


The only time I thought they where going to win was in ROTF. I thought they where going to bring back Optimus in the next movie.


I agree that's what should have occurred to end the movie with a bad guys' momentary victory, a la The Empire Strikes Back.

But almost as soon as Prime died, they were looking (and found) a way to revive him.

His (short) death was never allowed to make much of an impact.


It still surprised me. I thought I had read every spoiler on the internet, until that happened.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby Master Renegade » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:46 pm

No Death for Prowl wrote:
Master Renegade wrote:
vegetacron wrote:Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.


That's just it. I can't find a single redeeming feature in ANY of them. Not one. There was nothing I liked about them. At best, I may have been indifferent to a few elements.


Oh come on, that's not really fair.


It's perfectly fair. It's exactly how I feel. I cannot find a single good point about ANY of these movies.

Now, if you really want to insist that I'm being unfair, I could easily turn that around on you and your opinions.
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Re: "What do you expect, Shakespeare?"

Postby SlyTF1 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:55 pm

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Master Renegade wrote:
No Death for Prowl wrote:
Master Renegade wrote:
vegetacron wrote:Yeah, i used to think that way, but its like...i dunno...perspective?

Yes, the movies, as a whole, we're terrible, but you kinda just gotta pick out what you liked about them and move on.


That's just it. I can't find a single redeeming feature in ANY of them. Not one. There was nothing I liked about them. At best, I may have been indifferent to a few elements.


Oh come on, that's not really fair.


It's perfectly fair. It's exactly how I feel. I cannot find a single good point about ANY of these movies.

Now, if you really want to insist that I'm being unfair, I could easily turn that around on you and your opinions.


So the CG wasn't good? The scores weren't totally freaking awesome?
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