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Rated X wrote: Thats a grey area because both vintage G1 and CHUG cassettes are the same size.

Toyworld Devilstar has a Leader scale robot mode and not Voyager robot mode.



Chimungmung.com is listing Toyworld Devilstar with a 22.5 cm, 8.9 inch robot height.
http://chimungmung.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=2103

DX9 Chigurh has a 24cm, 9.4 inch robot mode.
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/images/pr ... X10004.jpg

Looking at the pics, Looks like both Devilstar and Chigurh have the same level of articulation, Same high sculpted detail. Almost similar robot height, With Chigurh barely being .4 inches taller in robot mode. Both toys can clearly fit nicely in HasTak MP TF toy collections.

Think both toys are 3rd party MP TF toy worthy.

I don't think KFC's cassettes are trying to be Masterpieces. For the most part they don't even try to have a cassette alt. mode. They're more in the line of Classics Ravage (Classics had G1 Soundwave in it).

But this isn't my list, so...

Yeah i agree KFC Cassetts are not MP got my self a little confused with them being compatable and them haveing some articulation but yeah SteelJaw aint MP .

Still waiting on preorders for this one because I want it bad Hopefully they're still going forward with it but just waiting to see what this years official releases are going to be before pulling the trigger. Sideswipe needs his bro!

Seriously, I've nearly bought the Tigertracks KO just to have a yellow bot next to him.

Took some time to add a few links with the images and also added a couple of updates and figures still to come .

There is a couple of figures i wasn't sure of putting in who do and don't fit like Warbotron or Hexatron continuum or maybe UT Ordin ? Since these all scale well with official and have a g1 look to them in most cases , do these guys fit ?

Autobot Genocide wrote:Took some time to add a few links with the images and also added a couple of updates and figures still to come .

There is a couple of figures i wasn't sure of putting in who do and don't fit like Warbotron or Hexatron continuum or maybe UT Ordin ? Since these all scale well with official and have a g1 look to them in most cases , do these guys fit ?

Think the Warbotron combiners should be added here. As they appear to be MP scaled toys.

UT Ordin, I'd consider a MP scaled toy. Esecially if UT Hun-gurr is Ultra or Leader scale.

Think Hexatron is a head too short to blend in with the HasTak MP-10 toy scale. Perhaps CloneDroid Sixshot if it's a head or two taller would blend in better with the MP-10 scale.

If HasTak does a CW Predaking, That has four deluxes and One Voyager. Then MMC Feral Rex becomes a MP toy.

I wouldn't count any of those as "MP" toys. Something may be "MP sized" without really being intended for the MP line.

Good example? Energon Galvatron scales well with MP Rodimus. I have him next to Roddy and he actually looks good there. But it is definitely not an MP toy.

Another example is Xtransbots Wheelie and Glider. They were both Jizai knockoffs and scale with MPs. But they are also very, very clearly not MPs.

If you start including the Warbotron guys, Hexatron, and the Feralcons then you may as well include voyager Springer and any other bot that's big enough to look alright next to the MP cars and the MP minibots including the iGear minibots (which some use as MP minibots) and KFC's tapes (which are undoubtibly MP scaled).

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I wouldn't count any of those as "MP" toys. Something may be "MP sized" without really being intended for the MP line.

Good example? Energon Galvatron scales well with MP Rodimus. I have him next to Roddy and he actually looks good there. But it is definitely not an MP toy.

Another example is Xtransbots Wheelie and Glider. They were both Jizai knockoffs and scale with MPs. But they are also very, very clearly not MPs.

If you start including the Warbotron guys, Hexatron, and the Feralcons then you may as well include voyager Springer and any other bot that's big enough to look alright next to the MP cars and the MP minibots including the iGear minibots (which some use as MP minibots) and KFC's tapes (which are undoubtibly MP scaled).

I would agree with you on both the point that size does not make MP, and the comments on Warbotron. To me, MPs have to have some cartoon accuracy, and Warbotron deviates from the cartoon characters too much, in my opinion.

However, on Ollie(Wheelie) I have to disagree. I own the mold for both Wheelie and Turbo, and I find him very close to being on par with Bumblebee as far as screen accuracy. The complexity and size seem to fit well with MP aesthetics. And the quality is on par with (if not exceeding) MP Roddy (which isn't actually saying much, is it?)




I am curious, though. What about Ollie is not MP Wheelie for you?

(P.S. Finding good pics of Wheelie to hotlink is not easy. But a page over at TFW had toon Wheelie, Ollie, and some other super alloy something or other. I didn't read more of the thread to find out.)

Agamemnon wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I wouldn't count any of those as "MP" toys. Something may be "MP sized" without really being intended for the MP line.

Good example? Energon Galvatron scales well with MP Rodimus. I have him next to Roddy and he actually looks good there. But it is definitely not an MP toy.

Another example is Xtransbots Wheelie and Glider. They were both Jizai knockoffs and scale with MPs. But they are also very, very clearly not MPs.

If you start including the Warbotron guys, Hexatron, and the Feralcons then you may as well include voyager Springer and any other bot that's big enough to look alright next to the MP cars and the MP minibots including the iGear minibots (which some use as MP minibots) and KFC's tapes (which are undoubtibly MP scaled).

I would agree with you on both the point that size does not make MP, and the comments on Warbotron. To me, MPs have to have some cartoon accuracy, and Warbotron deviates from the cartoon characters too much, in my opinion.

However, on Ollie(Wheelie) I have to disagree. I own the mold for both Wheelie and Turbo, and I find him very close to being on par with Bumblebee as far as screen accuracy. The complexity and size seem to fit well with MP aesthetics. And the quality is on par with (if not exceeding) MP Roddy (which isn't actually saying much, is it?)




I am curious, though. What about Ollie is not MP Wheelie for you?

(P.S. Finding good pics of Wheelie to hotlink is not easy. But a page over at TFW had toon Wheelie, Ollie, and some other super alloy something or other. I didn't read more of the thread to find out.)

Never said price and scale was just needed to qualify for a MP toy. Other important things are also needed like high Articulation, High sculpt, great engineering and being able to blend in decently with HasTak's MP TF toy scale.

Don't think MMC Hexatron qualifies as a MP TF toy. As it's a Head shorter than MP-10. MMC Hexatron does have the high articulation, high sculpt, high engineering.

The MMC Feralcons and Warbotron should be considered MP TF toys. as they have the high articulation, great engineering, high sculpt and are a size bigger than HasTak's CW toys.

MP TF toys should not be exclusive to just the G-1 Universe. Think MMC Knight Morpher Cyclops Shockwave should qualify as a MP TF toy. As it has the high articulation, High sculpt and high engineering to qualify.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I wouldn't count any of those as "MP" toys. Something may be "MP sized" without really being intended for the MP line.

Good example? Energon Galvatron scales well with MP Rodimus. I have him next to Roddy and he actually looks good there. But it is definitely not an MP toy.

Another example is Xtransbots Wheelie and Glider. They were both Jizai knockoffs and scale with MPs. But they are also very, very clearly not MPs.

If you start including the Warbotron guys, Hexatron, and the Feralcons then you may as well include voyager Springer and any other bot that's big enough to look alright next to the MP cars and the MP minibots including the iGear minibots (which some use as MP minibots) and KFC's tapes (which are undoubtibly MP scaled).

I would agree with you on both the point that size does not make MP, and the comments on Warbotron. To me, MPs have to have some cartoon accuracy, and Warbotron deviates from the cartoon characters too much, in my opinion.

However, on Ollie(Wheelie) I have to disagree. I own the mold for both Wheelie and Turbo, and I find him very close to being on par with Bumblebee as far as screen accuracy. The complexity and size seem to fit well with MP aesthetics. And the quality is on par with (if not exceeding) MP Roddy (which isn't actually saying much, is it?)




I am curious, though. What about Ollie is not MP Wheelie for you?

(P.S. Finding good pics of Wheelie to hotlink is not easy. But a page over at TFW had toon Wheelie, Ollie, and some other super alloy something or other. I didn't read more of the thread to find out.)

Never said price and scale was just needed to qualify for a MP toy. Other important things are also needed like Articulation, High sculpt, great engineering and being able to blend in decently with HasTak's MP TF toy scale.

Think MMC Hexatron has all the needed articulation, great engineering and high sculpt. Think it's missing thr ability to blend in successfuly with HasTak's MP-10 toy. As Sixshot should at least be the same height or a Head taller than MP-10.

The MMC Feralcons and Warbotron should be considered MP TF toys. as they have the articulation, great engineering, high sculpt and are a size bigger than HasTak's CW toys.

MP TF toys should not be exclusive to just the G-1 Universe. Think MMC Knight Morpher Cyclops Shockwave should qualify as a MP TF toy. As it has the articulation, High sculpt and great engineering to qualify.

Okay, first of all, I was responding to Gauntlet101010's point on Ollie. I don't think either of us said anything about price.

Second, while you may consider all of those factors for MP or in your collection, that is not what I have seen as a general consensus about MP. Would Takara include anything like Knight Morpher in MP collections? The closest supporting argument would be Movie Starscream, and that was MPM, not MP (meaning MP Movie). Thus far, all Takara MPs have been Generation 1 Cartoon. There is no reason to consider other TF universes for MP.

In general, in all discussions I've seen here at Seibertron about MP, the qualifications have been:

* General G1 cartoon accurate scale to MP-10 in both Bot mode and alt mode. (Obviously there is some leeway here as it would be physically impossible to get Ultra Magnus to be absolutely accurate in both modes or have Soundwave mass shift to fit in Bumblebee's front trunk...)

* General G1 cartoon accurate aesthetics in both Bot mode and Alt mode

* A higher level of transformation complexity than would be found in a children's toy, like Classics/Generations or RID.

* Higher detailing than would be found in a children's toy.

It's fine, Tsut, if you consider those other factors for your own collection. It's fine if you want to consider Knight Morpher an MP for your own collection. But if you polled the general MP collector, do you seriously think many, much less a majority, would consider those figures for MP? As I recall, while some were looking to include the likes of Warbotron in their MP collections, the only real comments I recalled were to indicate that Warbotron is MP sized.

I love Feral Rex. But I don't think he is cartoon accurate enough to be MP.

Of that entire list, only Hexatron comes close. And I have reservations about cartoon accuracy there as well. Plus, I think he is too small next to MP Ultra Magnus...

Agamemnon wrote:
In general, in all discussions I've seen here at Seibertron about MP, the qualifications have been:

* General G1 cartoon accurate scale to MP-10 in both Bot mode and alt mode. (Obviously there is some leeway here as it would be physically impossible to get Ultra Magnus to be absolutely accurate in both modes or have Soundwave mass shift to fit in Bumblebee's front trunk...)

* General G1 cartoon accurate aesthetics in both Bot mode and Alt mode

* A higher level of transformation complexity than would be found in a children's toy, like Classics/Generations or RID.

* Higher detailing than would be found in a children's toy.

* Think, You left out the most important qualification for a MP TF toy. Which is higher than average articulation on the robot mode. With the needed fully articulated fingers and rotate wrist.

* Going to ignore point One, As I'm sick and tired of discussing scale. Skipping to point 2.

* Think most of the HasTak MP TF toys are a even mixture of Original toy and Original cartoon art fused into one HasTak MP TF toy.

* Don't think a complex Transformation is needed to qualify for a MP TF toy. As complex Transformations is what ruined most Micheal bay Movie TF toys. to the point, that AOE and RID2015 now have a few steps Transformations toys.

* Agree, That higher sculpt and Higher detailed, is needed to qualify for a MP TF toy.

Yeah i can agree with them not being MP not to say there not worthy stand ins for my own collection mind

But yeah that would raise the question why not say MMC Feral cons are MP and so on ..

and Knight morpher is not MP who would honestly choose knight morpher over quakewave to fit a g1 mp collection

Any others?

Autobot Genocide wrote:Yeah i can agree with them not being MP not to say there not worthy stand ins for my own collection mind

But yeah that would raise the question why not say MMC Feral cons are MP and so on ..

and Knight morpher is not MP who would honestly choose knight morpher over quakewave to fit a g1 mp collection

Any others?

Why can't MMC Morpher Cyclops be a 3rd party HOS MP TF toy. Never said it should be a MP TF G-1 toy. Similar to some Micheal Bay Movie Takara TF toys being called MP TF toys.

minus Broadside, The 1985 and 1986 Triple changers were shown shorter than Optimus, Megatron, Rodimus Prime and Galvatron in the original G-1 cartoon.

What exactly eliminated ToyWorld Devilstar from being a MP TF toy in this thread. But somehow DX9 Chigurh is a MP TF toy in this thread? Both toys are leader scale, With Cigurh being barely 0.4 inches taller than Devilstar. It's worth a mention that Devilstar is a more closer update sculpted toy that looks more like the original. Chigurh looks like a Neo CHUG sculpted toy, as it barely looks like the original.

Think those Warbotron combiners and MMC feral rex are MP TF toys. As they are a size+ bigger than the CHUG CW combiners. They have all the high articulation, High sculpt and high engineering to make them qualify for MP TF toys.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Why can't....

Because opinions, man. Personally I consider Warbotron/MMC Predaking to be huge detailed neo combiners more than MP, exactly because of the extra "high sculpting". They look great as their own products, but if you place them next to an actual MP you'll notice that the Hastak MPs are much simpler and "less busy".

If they're MP enough for you, great! It's not like me or anyone else could change your personal preferences; your collection, your rules right?

I just find labeling something as an "MP" with such rules to be restrictive, because that would easily kick off MP Bumblebee for not having wrist joints, articulated fingers, simple sculpt and small size. So for me, MPs are strictly reserved for official HasTak; Everyone else's are just "that expensive super cool toy". Just my way of viewing things

Tsutsukakushi wrote: It's worth a mention that Devilstar is a more closer update sculpted toy that looks more like the original. Chigurh looks like a Neo CHUG sculpted toy, as it barely looks like the original.

And it's also worth mentioning that Chigurh resembles the G1 cartoon version of said character. So going by that line of thinking Devilstar would become Neo because he looks nothing like the on screen version of him. It goes both ways, though for the time being official MPs are leaning towards show accuracy.
I guess until another 3p could somehow make it so Astrotrain could have BOTH configurations for bot mode, just pick one and enjoy!

Tsutsukakushi wrote:* Think, You left out the most important qualification for a MP TF toy. Which is higher than average articulation on the robot mode. With the needed fully articulated fingers and rotate wrist.

Um...MP Bumblebee? I thought about this one, but in reality, Classics/Generations toys have gotten so much better at articulation that this one really doesn't factor in much any more.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:* Going to ignore point One, As I'm sick and tired of discussing scale. Skipping to point 2.

Finally!

Tsutsukakushi wrote:* Think most of the HasTak MP TF toys are a even mixture of Original toy and Original cartoon art fused into one HasTak MP TF toy.

Indeed, due to animation errors, it would be impossible to absolutely match the cartoons in all aspects. That's why I said general G1 cartoon Aesthetics. Since the cartoon was based off of the toy line, it follows that the toys would be a part of this. Now, "even mixture?" I would say that the alt modes are pretty well proportioned to be scale models of the real life vehicles they are meant to be. (This is probably nit picking on both our parts here...)

Tsutsukakushi wrote:* Don't think a complex Transformation is needed to qualify for a MP TF toy. As complex Transformations is what ruined most Micheal bay Movie TF toys. to the point, that AOE and RID2015 now have a few steps Transformations toys.

For this one, I think the complex transformations come about because of the desire to match the alt modes and cartoon aesthetics. There are a lot of cheats in the MP line versus the old G1 toys. The complex transformations aren't the defining characteristic of being MP, they are the result of trying to accomplish what the MP line does, namely figures that are decently accurate in both alt and bot mode. Does that make sense? Complex transformations aren't needed, they just have been a part of the MP line.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:* Agree, That higher sculpt and Higher detailed, is needed to qualify for a MP TF toy.

Woot, we agree!

[Edit] Two more points, one that I thought I had already addressed..

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Why can't MMC Morpher Cyclops be a 3rd party HOS MP TF toy. Never said it should be a MP TF G-1 toy. Similar to some Micheal Bay Movie Takara TF toys being called MP TF toys.

Because then it wouldn't be "MP." The only Michael Bay movie toy that I recall getting the MP treatment was Leader Starscream. (Did OP get the treatment too? I do not recall). And Movie Strarscream was not MP. He was MPM. He would not make the list in this thread. So far, by the figures that Takara has released, MP is G1 only.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:minus Broadside, The 1985 and 1986 Triple changers were shown shorter than Optimus, Megatron, Rodimus Prime and Galvatron in the original G-1 cartoon.

Indeed, these are going to be difficult for Takara to scale within the MP line. Although I thought I remembered Astrotrain being taller than Megs in some shots.... Was this an attempt to justify the inclusion of the one Astrotrain in the list? I think the reasoning was pretty well put forth why it shouldn't be considered.

When I'm talking about Xtransbots Wheelie I'm talking about their oversize Jizaitoys knockoff (which was not marketed as an MP):



Obviously he's the right height (as is Xtransbot Glider, also pictured), but I don't think that's really MP. Xtransbots was pretty cheap at the time.

As for the Warbot and Feral Rex guys, they simply aren't G1 enough. They're really nice and they look nice next to MP cars, but they aren't MP. I'm sure the upcoming Titan Devestator will look nice too, especially in Takara's colours, but it won't be an MP even if the limbs are the right size. The engineering won't be there and I doubt the look will be there either.

Is DX9 Chigurh G-1 cartoon accurate in the Three drawn modes?

Lets examine the pics evidence below.











Sorry, I'm not seeing it. Chigurh's robot legs and arms look nothing like the 1985 cartoon robot astrotrain's arms and legs. Cartoon Astrotrain did not wear his Space ship roocket boosters on his feet like Chigurh does.

1985 Astrotrain's cartoon Space ship mode was closely modeled after the 1985 toy space ship mode. Chigurh has a space ship mode that is more fat and looks nothing like the 1985 cartoon Astrotrain Space ship mode.

Chigurh's Train mode does not have the same side sculpted detail and over all detail that 1985 Astrotrains cartoon train alt mode does.

Think TW Devil stars Space ship and Train modes more closely resemble 1985 cartoon Astrotrain Train and Space modes more than DX9 Chigurh does.





Think the 3rd party Astrotrain toy that tries the hardest to match the 1985 Astrotrain 3 drawn cartoon modes is this one here. That some fans think got cancelled.



Think the only reason DX9 Chigurh is being called the more 1985 cartoon accurate toy. Is due to his anime colors and robot torso sculpt.

Everyone does realize ToyWorld is bound to release devilstar in anime colors right?

Think DX9's Chigurh Space ship mode. looks more like this fat, over inflated, bulky Botcon Astrotrain toy. than it does the skinny narrow 1985 cartoon Astrotrain space ship mode.

If we're talking about Astrotrains, I'd wait to see them beside MPs before judging. Ditto Octane. But that's just me.

Time to bump the thread . It's been a while but i have been slowly updating , so for anyone new to MP or just interested check out the first post

Good job on the bump, it brought the thread to my attention!

For me, a MP that will be in my collection represents the best version of the toy (style, transformation, quality) based on the G1 cartoon model (Apollyon, Quakewave, Brawny, Huff, Invisible to name a few I'm looking to get). Thankfully 3rd parties are filling in what HasTak hasn't. I'm also basing stuff off the "MP-10 scale" (which is just, you know, theoretical:)).

The only hesitation I think to including one of the amazing 3rd party combiner teams is that we don't have a HasTak "MP" combiner to go by. Yeah, some of the modes scale well, but we don't have a "one to one" comparison (Ex: seekers, cars).

I think the list is great (as I'm focusing on MP now) so kudos to you Autobots Genocide!

itscramtastic wrote:Good job on the bump, it brought the thread to my attention!

For me, a MP that will be in my collection represents the best version of the toy (style, transformation, quality) based on the G1 cartoon model (Apollyon, Quakewave, Brawny, Huff, Invisible to name a few I'm looking to get). Thankfully 3rd parties are filling in what HasTak hasn't. I'm also basing stuff off the "MP-10 scale" (which is just, you know, theoretical:)).

The only hesitation I think to including one of the amazing 3rd party combiner teams is that we don't have a HasTak "MP" combiner to go by. Yeah, some of the modes scale well, but we don't have a "one to one" comparison (Ex: seekers, cars).

I think the list is great (as I'm focusing on MP now) so kudos to you Autobots Genocide!

No problem

Part of me thinks the combiners should be in because the way this line is going with each company putting there own spin on what MP is it's soon going to be the same as telling yourself MakeToys or Fansproject is classics or generation IMO they can work but they are clearly there own thing looking at their size and aesthetic , and the exact same thing is said about Warbotron Bruticus or UT Abominus .

Autobot Genocide wrote:

itscramtastic wrote:The only hesitation I think to including one of the amazing 3rd party combiner teams is that we don't have a HasTak "MP" combiner to go by. Yeah, some of the modes scale well, but we don't have a "one to one" comparison (Ex: seekers, cars).

I think the list is great (as I'm focusing on MP now) so kudos to you Autobot Genocide!

No problem

Part of me thinks the combiners should be in because the way this line is going with each company putting there own spin on what MP is it's soon going to be the same as telling yourself MakeToys or Fansproject is classics or generation IMO they can work but they are clearly there own thing looking at their size and aesthetic , and the exact same thing is said about Warbotron Bruticus or UT Abominus .

Those dang combiners. Looking all cool and stuff.

In the end everything is about what makes the collector of the specific items in their collection feel warm and fuzzy. It's also nice to have a general guide on what should be considered MP (like this thread!). Me personally, I just want G1 Season 1 bots/cons, and the new bots/cons from TF:TM.

Where is a damn MP scale Galvatron dammit?!

Hello,

I just made an account to thank you. I was looking for a similar list from a long time. Please keep it updated! It's great!

Updated .