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A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

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A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Dagon » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:14 pm

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So my fiancee and I were talking about various things, and wound up talking about ROTF and Devastator. It got me thinking how people would respond to the following:

In ROTF, there are scenes that happen concurrently that show both a combined Devastator fighting those moronic twins AND seperate Constructicons fighting other Autobots, and a Long Haul walking around. This is pretty obviously some error in the film, but it's been "explained" and covered up with the apologetic idea that there are more than the six requisite Constructicons, and that any combination of "Constructicon" robots can form Devastator.
So, my question is, if this answer, which I've always found a very, very flimsy work around, is the reality of the live action TF universe, why not have six other "Constructicons" form another "Devastator" to rip up the pyramid to reveal the star harvester? There are obviously other "Constructicons" around, since they are the reason this explanation was given in the first place, and if real Devastator is busy with Autobots and getting shot at from some naval vessel, why not bring out another one, since apparently, the potential for that exists or at very least is feasible? Why not just have a whole bunch of Devastators run around and wild out?

I know that, since it's apparent from this post that I'm not really a fan of the movies, I'm likely to get replies that will basically try to further state this interchangeable parts half answer that the writers or whoever it was put forth as the official explanation, but I don't need that or want that. No, I don't like ROTF and I do think this official answer is a very cheap one, but I'm not here to bash the corpse of the movie, but rather to see if anyone has any ideas as to why this idea isn't/wasn't further explored. I suppose the only real condition of it is that the other "Constructicons" would HAVE TO be able to form A Devastator, as officially, any group of "Constructicons" can and did form THE Devastator, so the only 'wrong' answer is that they didn't do it because they can't.

I think it's an interesting question, at any rate.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:13 pm

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Devastator is his own separate being in the movie universe. Nothing in the movie ever implies that the other Constructicons are connected to Devastator at all. Other than the fact that they transform into construction vehicles.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:05 pm

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More than just six Constructicons formed the Devastator that appeared in the movie. One even formed just a hand that attached to another who formed the arm.

There probably wasn't enough of the extra Constructicons who fought individually in that battle to form a second Devastator. Of those who did fight on their own in that fight, we saw Mixmaster, Long Haul, Rampage, and Scrapper. Just those four might not have been enough.

And if the toys are anything to go by, those four would have formed a Devastator that was missing an arm and a torso since there was no second Hightower or second Scavenger or Overload (or anyone else of their body-types) there. Actually, without a torso unit, I can imagine them forming anything without altering their combination scheme. :P
Last edited by Sabrblade on Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:32 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:Devastator is his own separate being in the movie universe. Nothing in the movie ever implies that the other Constructicons are connected to Devastator at all. Other than the fact that they transform into construction vehicles.

This makes the most sense to me. Devastator was formed from I think 9 construction vehicles that are never shown to have individual robot modes. Plus the Green dump truck is totally different from the one Long Haul transforms into. The whole interchangeable thing was, I believe, made up by Hasbro as an excuse to make the variety of inaccurate Devastator toys plausibly accurate. "Sure one has 6 vehicles and another has 7 with robot modes. Devastator can combine however the hell he wants to so buy them both!"
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Dagon » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:50 am

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Evil_the_Nub wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Devastator is his own separate being in the movie universe. Nothing in the movie ever implies that the other Constructicons are connected to Devastator at all. Other than the fact that they transform into construction vehicles.

This makes the most sense to me. Devastator was formed from I think 9 construction vehicles that are never shown to have individual robot modes. Plus the Green dump truck is totally different from the one Long Haul transforms into. The whole interchangeable thing was, I believe, made up by Hasbro as an excuse to make the variety of inaccurate Devastator toys plausibly accurate. "Sure one has 6 vehicles and another has 7 with robot modes. Devastator can combine however the hell he wants to so buy them both!"



The TFWiki has this all the way at the bottom of the ROTF Devastator entry:

"Given that the film establishes multiple sets of Constructicons, it seems entirely possible that more than one "Devastator" could be formed."

It does also mention the thing about the toys being screen inaccurate, and that I completely understand and even accept to a greater degree than I do this same thing being used to explain what I still think is a mistake in the film making. But my original question was why multiple Devastators weren't called in since any number of "Constructicons," presumably whatever would be needed to make a full set as it were, and while it's not I guess as flashy or creative as I was hoping for, this is the best answer for me so far:

Sabrblade wrote:There probably wasn't enough of the extra Constructicons who fought individually in that battle to form a second Devastator. Of those who did fight on their own in that fight, we saw Mixmaster, Long Haul, Rampage, and Scrapper. Just those four might not have been enough.




Which makes sense, but I guess I wanted something more exciting and less practical.
As I said in the first post, I'm not a fan of ROTF, but Devastator was the best part of the movie for me.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:48 am

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I blame Hasbro, their BS excuse has spun way out of control. I don't know why everyone is holding on to this duplicate Constructicons thing, even when they admit it doesn't makes sense. I'm just going by what happened in the movie itself. Devastator is like Tidal Wave, Omega Supreme, or the Duocons. His alt mode is a group of vehicles and the Constructicons themselves are a separate group with similar alt modes.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Noideaforaname » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:49 pm

The way they focused in on the concrete mixer's Decepti-dog hood ornament (and the similar way they established the bunch of construction vehicles) before both Megatron's revival and Devastator's combination (the two big COnstructicon scenes) strongly implies that those are the same bots in both instances. Not to mention all the concept art and toys and every other shred of media outright states that's supposed to be the case as well, and the fact that Devy is traditionally made up of the Constructicons (and before you say anything, not that Optimus is still a truck and Autobot leader, and that Starscream is still a jet and Decepticon #2). I really doubt Devastator was designed as anything but a gestalt of a specific group of Cons.

I assume the writer's strike and perhaps budget completely borked up the intent. Either the script got reworked and nobody caught the plot hole of the Constructicons being in two places at once -or- somebody decided to use the Constructicons as "extras" (as they did with Blackout and Bonecrusher) without thinking anyone would catch on.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Dagon » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:27 pm

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Noideaforaname wrote:The way they focused in on the concrete mixer's Decepti-dog hood ornament (and the similar way they established the bunch of construction vehicles) before both Megatron's revival and Devastator's combination (the two big COnstructicon scenes) strongly implies that those are the same bots in both instances. Not to mention all the concept art and toys and every other shred of media outright states that's supposed to be the case as well, and the fact that Devy is traditionally made up of the Constructicons (and before you say anything, not that Optimus is still a truck and Autobot leader, and that Starscream is still a jet and Decepticon #2). I really doubt Devastator was designed as anything but a gestalt of a specific group of Cons.

I assume the writer's strike and perhaps budget completely borked up the intent. Either the script got reworked and nobody caught the plot hole of the Constructicons being in two places at once -or- somebody decided to use the Constructicons as "extras" (as they did with Blackout and Bonecrusher) without thinking anyone would catch on.



I completely agree that whatever the goof was that caused the need for an 'explanation' for the numerous Constructicons probably resulted from things beyond the control of the film crew.

I also agree that Devastator is, by pretty much everything the franchise has to offer, intended to be a group comprised of specific Decepticons. It's the aforementioned goof that necessitated some kind of work around 'reasoning.'

But, my question initially was, IF several construction vehicle Decepticons are all that's needed to form Devastator, and there are, as established in the wake of the movie, multiple construction vehicle Decepticons, why wouldn't there be two or three Devastators instead of just one? If it took a few Autobots and a naval rail gun to stop one, two or three Devastators would be near impossible to stop, I'd think.
Maybe forget that it's Devastator. If several construction vehicle Decepticons can merge into a gestalt form, and there are multiple construction vehicle Decepticons around, why not have them merge into several gestalt forms rather than just one?

EDIT: And I totally agree, noidea. The focus on the hood ornament does more than imply that that's the same cement mixer 'Con. That's the kind of detail that counts as character development in the movieverse, so I'm not sure how it could be explained away.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:48 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:There probably wasn't enough of the extra Constructicons who fought individually in that battle to form a second Devastator. Of those who did fight on their own in that fight, we saw Mixmaster, Long Haul, Rampage, and Scrapper. Just those four might not have been enough.


How about fewer Constructicons forming a smaller Devastator, like in RiD it took only 4 members of the Build Team to form Landfill. So if they pick the right combination of alt modes it would be possible to form a "Devastator Jr." :lol:

And Dagon, I know everyone has his/her own opinion on anything Transformers, and I also know RoTF didn't have any positives other than the fight scenes and the CG visuals, but Devastator being the best part of the film...? (:|
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:20 pm

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Noideaforaname wrote:The way they focused in on the concrete mixer's Decepti-dog hood ornament (and the similar way they established the bunch of construction vehicles) before both Megatron's revival and Devastator's combination (the two big COnstructicon scenes) strongly implies that those are the same bots in both instances. Not to mention all the concept art and toys and every other shred of media outright states that's supposed to be the case as well, and the fact that Devy is traditionally made up of the Constructicons (and before you say anything, not that Optimus is still a truck and Autobot leader, and that Starscream is still a jet and Decepticon #2). I really doubt Devastator was designed as anything but a gestalt of a specific group of Cons.

I assume the writer's strike and perhaps budget completely borked up the intent. Either the script got reworked and nobody caught the plot hole of the Constructicons being in two places at once -or- somebody decided to use the Constructicons as "extras" (as they did with Blackout and Bonecrusher) without thinking anyone would catch on.

I think the hood ornament was just to show they were Decepticons, not the same character. There are a lot on inconsistencies between the movies and all the other media; toys, comics, video games, artwork, etc. In the comics Optimus killed Barricade right after Bonecrusher, but then he's alive in DotM. According to the toyline Jazz is still alive and got a G1 paintjob. So nothing outside the movies themselves is accurate or official. Since the whole interchangeable duplicate Constructicons thing doesn't make any sense, and is only mentioned in the toyline, I don't believe it.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby SlyTF1 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:35 pm

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Rodimus Prime wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:There probably wasn't enough of the extra Constructicons who fought individually in that battle to form a second Devastator. Of those who did fight on their own in that fight, we saw Mixmaster, Long Haul, Rampage, and Scrapper. Just those four might not have been enough.


How about fewer Constructicons forming a smaller Devastator, like in RiD it took only 4 members of the Build Team to form Landfill. So if they pick the right combination of alt modes it would be possible to form a "Devastator Jr." :lol:

And Dagon, I know everyone has his/her own opinion on anything Transformers, and I also know RoTF didn't have any positives other than the fight scenes and the CG visuals, but Devastator being the best part of the film...? (:|



You know that for a fact, do you? I can think of plenty of other positives.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:42 pm

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Rodimus Prime wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:There probably wasn't enough of the extra Constructicons who fought individually in that battle to form a second Devastator. Of those who did fight on their own in that fight, we saw Mixmaster, Long Haul, Rampage, and Scrapper. Just those four might not have been enough.


How about fewer Constructicons forming a smaller Devastator, like in RiD it took only 4 members of the Build Team to form Landfill. So if they pick the right combination of alt modes it would be possible to form a "Devastator Jr." :lol:
Already addressed that in the third paragraph of my post. :)
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:25 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:And Dagon, I know everyone has his/her own opinion on anything Transformers, and I also know RoTF didn't have any positives other than the fight scenes and the CG visuals, but Devastator being the best part of the film...? (:|



You know that for a fact, do you? I can think of plenty of other positives.


As I said, matter of opinion. Nowhere in my post do you see the word "fact." You may see more positives, I sure don't.
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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:27 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:There probably wasn't enough of the extra Constructicons who fought individually in that battle to form a second Devastator. Of those who did fight on their own in that fight, we saw Mixmaster, Long Haul, Rampage, and Scrapper. Just those four might not have been enough.


How about fewer Constructicons forming a smaller Devastator, like in RiD it took only 4 members of the Build Team to form Landfill. So if they pick the right combination of alt modes it would be possible to form a "Devastator Jr." :lol:
Already addressed that in the third paragraph of my post. :)


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Re: A Question about ROTF Devastator.....

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:02 pm

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Dagon wrote:But, my question initially was, IF several construction vehicle Decepticons are all that's needed to form Devastator, and there are, as established in the wake of the movie, multiple construction vehicle Decepticons, why wouldn't there be two or three Devastators instead of just one? If it took a few Autobots and a naval rail gun to stop one, two or three Devastators would be near impossible to stop, I'd think.


Doubt this had anything to do with the story, but more of the movie budget and ILM's capacity for the CGI. They mentioned before that devastator alone pushed there computers to the max, so I would imagine that two or three would have caused it to crash.
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