Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[RhA]

Cleary, Bayverse Optimus is no saint. But Megatron is very much harmfull to humans, just not at the moment he got his spine removed. We was plotting to be a threat again at that time.

It certainly would have played better if Op was trying to take him prisoner and Megs forced him to do it by threatening to kill innocents.

I guess the choice was made to make Megatron look pityfull.

[cruizerdave]

Cleary, Bayverse Optimus is no saint. But Megatron is very much harmfull to humans, just not at the moment he got his spine removed. We was plotting to be a threat again at that time.

It certainly would have played better if Op was trying to take him prisoner and Megs forced him to do it by threatening to kill innocents.

I guess the choice was made to make Megatron look pityfull.

Yeah, he went out like a little b*tch. Who knows, maybe if Hot Rod hadn't gotten in the way, he would have gone out the same way in 1986?

[RhA]

Cleary, Bayverse Optimus is no saint. But Megatron is very much harmfull to humans, just not at the moment he got his spine removed. We was plotting to be a threat again at that time.

It certainly would have played better if Op was trying to take him prisoner and Megs forced him to do it by threatening to kill innocents.

I guess the choice was made to make Megatron look pityfull.

Yeah, he went out like a little b*tch. Who knows, maybe if Hot Rod hadn't gotten in the way, he would have gone out the same way in 1986?

Either way, we end up with Galvatron.

[Rodimus Prime]

It certainly would have played better if Op was trying to take him prisoner and Megs forced him to do it by threatening to kill innocents.

"All I want is to be back in charge." is what Megatron said after he bitch slapped Sentinel. From Megatron, that's a very real threat. So at the end of DoTM, he definitely posed a threat.

[Darkman20xx]

I've been reading thru pages and pages of posts about this movie and there are some points that I don't think anybody has hit on so only for that reason will I share. I for one was not a huge fan of this movie thinking it was just okay. What kills me is that when someone says that people come up with all sorts of defenses like "You just hate Michael Bay". I will say his success probably has a lot to do with why some people really dislike this movie. Armageddon is one of my favorite movies of all time. I thought the movie was beautifully done from story, to directed sequences, to special effects. There is no one out here that can say they didn't feel like letting loose a tear the first time they saw Harry tell his daughter goodbye before he pressed the button. Even the ending credits had feeling. Now the person responsible for that movie and Bad Boys 2 plus the first couple of Transformers Movies left us with AOE?

You can feel when someone is not passionate about a project and I felt he wasn't for this film as I remember hearing he did not technically want a TF4. It was never so blatant in any of the other films that the sole purpose of the movie was selling the toys. Again, I understand that was what the movies were meant for, but who else felt like Hasbro just had some Dinobot toys ready to go and told the movie makers "hey...we really need to get the Dinobots in there somewhere anywhere you can fit them in."? I want to see the franchise keep going but not if the movies are going to go down this road. I also am glad that some critics came out and called the movie out for not being the best of the bunch. With that hopefully the creators will raise their own level and put out the best TF movie ever to shut those same critics up next go round. Sequels should be raising the bar each time out. We all know it doesn't always end up that way. But why can't we say that on a TF board without getting flamed beyond belief?

AOE felt more "passionate," than an of the first 3.

Granted your opinion. To me it felt like something that was rushed out to make sure we get a toyline out by Memorial Day and make sure the car makers got their vehicles some light in the film.

Frankly, I don't think Bay will ever be as passionate as TF fans would like him to be. He was never a fan of the franchise, and he hwas more or less "strong-armed" into directing TF1 because Spielberg asked him to. And you don't say no to Steven Speilberg.

He might have grown fond of the TF movies, since they made him a mountain of money and are his most successful movies to date...but passionate?

The good news is, Ehren Kruger is a TF fan, unlike O&K.

You hit this right on the head. Money is the only reason why he signed on for these projects in the first place. I can give the first 3 movies a little more of a pass because 1...they weren't as bad as this last one was. 2....Even though he went a little crazy with stories, designs, etc....he was trying to put his artistic vision to work whether we liked it or not. That I can respect even if the movie turn out bad. AOE however just seems to me to be the film that said "Transformers fans will go see it and it will make a lot of money no matter what we do."

[SlyTF1]

I've been reading thru pages and pages of posts about this movie and there are some points that I don't think anybody has hit on so only for that reason will I share. I for one was not a huge fan of this movie thinking it was just okay. What kills me is that when someone says that people come up with all sorts of defenses like "You just hate Michael Bay". I will say his success probably has a lot to do with why some people really dislike this movie. Armageddon is one of my favorite movies of all time. I thought the movie was beautifully done from story, to directed sequences, to special effects. There is no one out here that can say they didn't feel like letting loose a tear the first time they saw Harry tell his daughter goodbye before he pressed the button. Even the ending credits had feeling. Now the person responsible for that movie and Bad Boys 2 plus the first couple of Transformers Movies left us with AOE?

You can feel when someone is not passionate about a project and I felt he wasn't for this film as I remember hearing he did not technically want a TF4. It was never so blatant in any of the other films that the sole purpose of the movie was selling the toys. Again, I understand that was what the movies were meant for, but who else felt like Hasbro just had some Dinobot toys ready to go and told the movie makers "hey...we really need to get the Dinobots in there somewhere anywhere you can fit them in."? I want to see the franchise keep going but not if the movies are going to go down this road. I also am glad that some critics came out and called the movie out for not being the best of the bunch. With that hopefully the creators will raise their own level and put out the best TF movie ever to shut those same critics up next go round. Sequels should be raising the bar each time out. We all know it doesn't always end up that way. But why can't we say that on a TF board without getting flamed beyond belief?

AOE felt more "passionate," than an of the first 3.

Granted your opinion. To me it felt like something that was rushed out to make sure we get a toyline out by Memorial Day and make sure the car makers got their vehicles some light in the film.

Frankly, I don't think Bay will ever be as passionate as TF fans would like him to be. He was never a fan of the franchise, and he hwas more or less "strong-armed" into directing TF1 because Spielberg asked him to. And you don't say no to Steven Speilberg.

He might have grown fond of the TF movies, since they made him a mountain of money and are his most successful movies to date...but passionate?

The good news is, Ehren Kruger is a TF fan, unlike O&K.

You hit this right on the head. Money is the only reason why he signed on for these projects in the first place. I can give the first 3 movies a little more of a pass because 1...they weren't as bad as this last one was. 2....Even though he went a little crazy with stories, designs, etc....he was trying to put his artistic vision to work whether we liked it or not. That I can respect even if the movie turn out bad. AOE however just seems to me to be the film that said "Transformers fans will go see it and it will make a lot of money no matter what we do."

If that were the case, they would have made the movie shorter so that it could be shown more times in a day; therefore, make more money. Nobody makes a 3 hour movie if there's no passion behind it.

I forgot where, but there was an interview with Bay. He said he wanted to treat this movie, and possibly the next sequels like a mythology, and not something just meant to sell toys. And that's exactly what it was. The Transformers weren't just background characters like they were in the previous 3. Even though, ROTF and DOTM at least tried to make them more than that. They had actual weight to the story and their personalities, especially Optimus. Lockdown, too.

[Darkman20xx]

I've been reading thru pages and pages of posts about this movie and there are some points that I don't think anybody has hit on so only for that reason will I share. I for one was not a huge fan of this movie thinking it was just okay. What kills me is that when someone says that people come up with all sorts of defenses like "You just hate Michael Bay". I will say his success probably has a lot to do with why some people really dislike this movie. Armageddon is one of my favorite movies of all time. I thought the movie was beautifully done from story, to directed sequences, to special effects. There is no one out here that can say they didn't feel like letting loose a tear the first time they saw Harry tell his daughter goodbye before he pressed the button. Even the ending credits had feeling. Now the person responsible for that movie and Bad Boys 2 plus the first couple of Transformers Movies left us with AOE?

You can feel when someone is not passionate about a project and I felt he wasn't for this film as I remember hearing he did not technically want a TF4. It was never so blatant in any of the other films that the sole purpose of the movie was selling the toys. Again, I understand that was what the movies were meant for, but who else felt like Hasbro just had some Dinobot toys ready to go and told the movie makers "hey...we really need to get the Dinobots in there somewhere anywhere you can fit them in."? I want to see the franchise keep going but not if the movies are going to go down this road. I also am glad that some critics came out and called the movie out for not being the best of the bunch. With that hopefully the creators will raise their own level and put out the best TF movie ever to shut those same critics up next go round. Sequels should be raising the bar each time out. We all know it doesn't always end up that way. But why can't we say that on a TF board without getting flamed beyond belief?

AOE felt more "passionate," than an of the first 3.

Granted your opinion. To me it felt like something that was rushed out to make sure we get a toyline out by Memorial Day and make sure the car makers got their vehicles some light in the film.

Frankly, I don't think Bay will ever be as passionate as TF fans would like him to be. He was never a fan of the franchise, and he hwas more or less "strong-armed" into directing TF1 because Spielberg asked him to. And you don't say no to Steven Speilberg.

He might have grown fond of the TF movies, since they made him a mountain of money and are his most successful movies to date...but passionate?

The good news is, Ehren Kruger is a TF fan, unlike O&K.

You hit this right on the head. Money is the only reason why he signed on for these projects in the first place. I can give the first 3 movies a little more of a pass because 1...they weren't as bad as this last one was. 2....Even though he went a little crazy with stories, designs, etc....he was trying to put his artistic vision to work whether we liked it or not. That I can respect even if the movie turn out bad. AOE however just seems to me to be the film that said "Transformers fans will go see it and it will make a lot of money no matter what we do."

If that were the case, they would have made the movie shorter so that it could be shown more times in a day; therefore, make more money. Nobody makes a 3 hour movie if there's no passion behind it.

I forgot where, but there was an interview with Bay. He said he wanted to treat this movie, and possibly the next sequels like a mythology, and not something just meant to sell toys. And that's exactly what it was. The Transformers weren't just background characters like they were in the previous 3. Even though, ROTF and DOTM at least tried to make them more than that. They had actual weight to the story and their personalities, especially Optimus. Lockdown, too.

It's also confirmed on Wiki that Bay wanted to end his involvement in the franchise after the third installment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformers_(film_series)

But money talks. But hey....there is no one in the world that takes the money for a job they don't put all their effort into.

I don't claim to know to know at all what was in Bay's head but all I know if it looks like a duck and quacks then most times its a duck. Also it could have been factors of the Studio saying we need this out by this time no questions asked. Who knows? All I'm saying is I don't think all these critics out here are lying. The overseas market saved this movie from being a dud by TF movie standards moneywise. That says a lot. I just hope that they do better next time or the movies really will be done.

[Rodimus Prime]

The overseas market saved this movie from being a dud by TF movie standards moneywise.

And who/what set the "standard" in the 1st place?

[Clunker]

To be fair the american audience has been steadily dropping their interest in sci fi movies on the whole, apart from some keys ones here and there.

[Darkman20xx]

The overseas market saved this movie from being a dud by TF movie standards moneywise.

And who/what set the "standard" in the 1st place?

Bay did when he put out an although not perfect, better quality product than this last film. The results showed. When episodes 1 2 and 3 came out for the Star Wars universe fans went to support but said they were lackluster films compared to the originals. Almost to say we'll give a pass because it was over a decade in between films but try to pass this off again on us because we're Star Wars fans we'll riot. That said from what various people have said when given the opportunity to visit the new Star Wars set it looks like the producers listened and are trying to do something revolutionary with it.

All I'm saying is that when fans of a movie defend it to no end just because it is made from their favorite source material, you don't give the studios much reason to really work to give a quality product. People who like the movie can like it. Just don't go calling us who maybe were not as fond of it "Bay Haters" because we felt the movie lacked some.

[Darkman20xx]

To be fair the american audience has been steadily dropping their interest in sci fi movies on the whole, apart from some keys ones here and there.

I think it's because the sci fi genre now is more about having the best special effects money can buy and thinking that's enough to carry a movie on it's own.

[Burn]

To be fair the american audience has been steadily dropping their interest in sci fi movies on the whole, apart from some keys ones here and there.

I think it's because the sci fi genre now is more about having the best special effects money can buy and thinking that's enough to carry a movie on it's own.

Clearly that worked for Avatar. Not like there was a great story there. >:oP

[ZeroWolf]

The overseas market saved this movie from being a dud by TF movie standards moneywise.

And who/what set the "standard" in the 1st place?

I'm going to go ahead and say that the standards are just how much money the other tf movies domesticly. Now the issue at hand though. Can any one here claim they know what goes on in Michael Bay's head? (or even say that they want too) They can't. The fact that many people came out of the movie thinking different things about the way it was done shows this. Really I think the movie is just a movie.

[cruizerdave]

Can any one here claim they know what goes on in Michael Bay's head?

If I were to guess, I'd say, "Cocaine, boobies, I'm awesome, cocaine, boobies, I'm awesome."

You know, typical guy stuff. But with cocaine.

[SKYWARPED_128]

You hit this right on the head. Money is the only reason why he signed on for these projects in the first place. I can give the first 3 movies a little more of a pass because 1...they weren't as bad as this last one was. 2....Even though he went a little crazy with stories, designs, etc....he was trying to put his artistic vision to work whether we liked it or not. That I can respect even if the movie turn out bad. AOE however just seems to me to be the film that said "Transformers fans will go see it and it will make a lot of money no matter what we do."

While I'm one of those despicable dregs of society who actually liked AOE ( ) I do agree that Bay is back mostly because of the money. Paramount reportedly had to beg on their hands and knees for Bay to do AOE, and stated in a recent article that they'll do whatever Bay wants to make him stay for TF5 and 6.

And let's not forget that he had to do Pain and Gain before starting AOE; he had to take a break from filming TF movies. Let's face it; Bay's true passion is non scifi action bromance movies. Bad Boys, Armageddon, The Rock--that's his thing, and it's cool, because I liked those movies.

I simply don't think he's all that crazy about TF's, and he's always been a little self-conscious about directing a TF movie. Gotta give him kudos for at least "giving it a try" though.

I forgot where, but there was an interview with Bay. He said he wanted to treat this movie, and possibly the next sequels like a mythology, and not something just meant to sell toys. And that's exactly what it was. The Transformers weren't just background characters like they were in the previous 3. Even though, ROTF and DOTM at least tried to make them more than that. They had actual weight to the story and their personalities, especially Optimus. Lockdown, too.

That's certainly good to hear.

And AOE actually felt that way--like a proper trilogy, I mean. You know how I feel about ROTF, so let's not get started with that anymore, but AOE truly feels like a proper TF movie with an emphasis on TF's. While it was just baby steps, DOTM started the ball rolling with Sentinel, who's by far the most well-developed character in the original trilogy, human or Cybertronian.

Overall, I feel that AOE has more "substance" to it than the first trilogy, but of course, that's just my personal opinion.

[No Death for Prowl]

With the recent discussion of the "merits" of these movies, I must say, I enjoy these TF films because they're ridiculous and yes, dumb.

Sometimes I want a serious movie with intricate plots that all tie together/deep characters/some deeper overall meaning.

Sometimes I just want a movie that thrills me and takes me away from all the serious stuff I need to deal with on a daily basis as a functional adult.

Transformers does the latter and does it well and without apologies. I enjoy them for that reason. So sue me.

Some may find it hard to believe, but a person can enjoy both extremes; it doesn't have to be one or the other all the time.

Thank you Michael Bay for making it your life's mission to just entertain and ignoring your critics who do not understand that there is place in life for your type of movie.

[Peridot]

With the recent discussion of the "merits" of these movies, I must say, I enjoy these TF films because they're ridiculous and yes, dumb.

Sometimes I want a serious movie with intricate plots that all tie together/deep characters/some deeper overall meaning.

Sometimes I just want a movie that thrills me and takes me away from all the serious stuff I need to deal with on a daily basis as a functional adult.

Transformers does the latter and does it well and without apologies. I enjoy them for that reason. So sue me.

Some may find it hard to believe, but a person can enjoy both extremes; it doesn't have to be one or the other all the time.

Thank you Michael Bay for making it your life's mission to just entertain and ignoring your critics who do not understand that there is place in life for your type of movie.

Exactly. The Transformers movies are basically live-action Saturday morning cartoons. You really don't go into the movie theater and expect to watch an Oscar-worthy example of dramatic filmmaking. It's like reading an issue of SIlver-Age Superman versus reading a copy of Watchmen. Both are good, but for their own reasons.

[SEXFIGHTER]

There is no way I am going to pay to watch this in the cinema..my doing so with the last 3 has helped bring about Bay's return each time. I'm sorry, but the last 3 were awful, ROTF being the worst, the first being the best. I honestly don't know how the guy (Bay) gets work.

[Burn]

Fairly certain it's because his movies ALWAYS make money. You not watching it though achieves nothing for you, because it's still going to make money without you, but it has the added bonus of making a few of us laugh.

[SEXFIGHTER]

I think it would have made money without him. Transformers has a huge built in audience. I think it deserves a more mature director and a decent story. The comics are waaayyy more mature. Bay's had his bite of the cherry, let's see if anybody out there has any other ideas.
I will watch AOE, but I'm not funding it. i'm not condoning it.

[RSDADDIMUS2]

I,for one,enjoyed it for what it was,a movie with robots and explosions. As I enjoyed the other 3.If I wanted a well thought out Transformer movie,I'd watch the one from '86.

[SEXFIGHTER]

I,for one,enjoyed it for what it was,a movie with robots and explosions. As I enjoyed the other 3.If I wanted a well thought out Transformer movie,I'd watch the one from '86.

Well i don't see why this franchise has to go backwards..imagine how good a well thought out live action could be? Explosion porn just doesn't wash, they need to go back to the drawing board. Maybe not reboot, but PLEASE...give us something that will sit proudly on a dvd shelf.

[SlyTF1]

I,for one,enjoyed it for what it was,a movie with robots and explosions. As I enjoyed the other 3.If I wanted a well thought out Transformer movie,I'd watch the one from '86.

I don't see how AOE isn't "well thought out." Everything made sense, everything was in its perfect place. The only thing that could have been explained better was where Optimus got his ability to fly. I mean, for me, it's obvious he gained the ability by going "knight mode," but a lot of people still can't see it, and still can't accept it.

[Skywarp64]

I,for one,enjoyed it for what it was,a movie with robots and explosions. As I enjoyed the other 3.If I wanted a well thought out Transformer movie,I'd watch the one from '86.

I don't see how AOE isn't "well thought out." Everything made sense, everything was in its perfect place. The only thing that could have been explained better was where Optimus got his ability to fly. I mean, for me, it's obvious he gained the ability by going "knight mode," but a lot of people still can't see it, and still can't accept it.

The whole knight thing could also have been explained better. As could the fact that almost every human on the planet has Alzheimer's and completely forgot that they already exiled the Autobots once, and their return is the only thing that saved the planet from Decepticon-imposed slavery. As could the sudden appearance of Drift, Hound, and whoever the heck the third one was. As could the Government's being unable to find Optimus for so long despite the Energon detectors that have been installed everywhere since Dark of the Moon. As could Optimus's suddenly knowing exactly how to awaken the Dinobots. As could why humans claim they don't want to rely on aliens anymore yet form a temporary partnership with Lockdown. As could Optimus's ability to just fix himself by scanning a new vehicle mode, as did Bumblebee in the first film. If transformers can do that, they could all be immortal. Why is there any conflict between them if they can all be immortal just by scanning a new vehicle mode any time they get an owie?

[Slashercon]

I,for one,enjoyed it for what it was,a movie with robots and explosions. As I enjoyed the other 3.If I wanted a well thought out Transformer movie,I'd watch the one from '86. :michaelbay:

Am I the only one here who actually thinks the '86 movie WASN'T well thought out? >:oP