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I'm going to say this with the knowledge that the title of this thread seems to be a troll, intentional or otherwise. There's not going to be any agreement of any kind, I know that. Just wanted to add my two cents.

The consensus of Cybertron before the civil war broke out was that is was a bit of a feudal society. There was inequality all over the place, depending on what class you were in. Orion Pax and Megatron both saw this and basically agreed on what the problems were.

The difference is, while Orion Pax wanted to change things for the better, Megatron wanted to take advantage of the unrest among the impoverished classes and cause a rebellion.

The decepticons are without a doubt the greater evil here, but keep in mind megatron could never have surrounded himself with a large enough army to start a war, had the arrogant autobot aristocracy not oppressed them into a corner to begin with.

You could make a convincing argument that there never would have been a war, had Optimus Prime been in charge from the beginning.

Hi-Q wrote:The decepticons are without a doubt the greater evil here, but keep in mind megatron could never have surrounded himself with a large enough army to start a war, had the arrogant autobot aristocracy not oppressed them into a corner to begin with.

You could make a convincing argument that there never would have been a war, had Optimus Prime been in charge from the beginning.

You don't need an oppressive government to form an army. The Confederacy was formed mostly because the Union didn't want to use human beings as slaves anymore. Though they did believe the government was oppressing them, it was only because the South not only wanted to own slaves, they were looking to expand the slave-trading business. Hitler was particularly good at convincing Germany to commit genocide and start another World War, despite having been beaten badly in the last one. Even the modern US Army is formed and maintained just by saying "Hey, you know, we could really use your help" and offering free college tuition and the best workout of your life.

Shadowman wrote:

Hi-Q wrote:The decepticons are without a doubt the greater evil here, but keep in mind megatron could never have surrounded himself with a large enough army to start a war, had the arrogant autobot aristocracy not oppressed them into a corner to begin with.

You could make a convincing argument that there never would have been a war, had Optimus Prime been in charge from the beginning.

You don't need an oppressive government to form an army. The Confederacy was formed mostly because the Union didn't want to use human beings as slaves anymore. Though they did believe the government was oppressing them, it was only because the South not only wanted to own slaves, they were looking to expand the slave-trading business. Hitler was particularly good at convincing Germany to commit genocide and start another World War, despite having been beaten badly in the last one. Even the modern US Army is formed and maintained just by saying "Hey, you know, we could really use your help" and offering free college tuition and the best workout of your life.

The Hitler example was mainly what I was going for. Germany was in shambles after WWI, and Hitler knew exactly how to tap into that reservoir of resentment and frustration, and twisted it into evil.

I'm not saying it's the only way to raise an army, but it was the method of choice in this specific universe, and it's very arguable that Megatron could not have raised a large enough army to pose any real threat without the autobots creating dissension for him.

Hi-Q wrote:I'm not saying it's the only way to raise an army, but it was the method of choice in this specific universe, and it's very arguable that Megatron could not have raised a large enough army to pose any real threat without the autobots creating dissension for him.

He could have, though, and in many continuities, he did, such as the Unicron Trilogy and the Movies. In G1, the army existed even before he did!

Second...which universe are we talking about? I'm talking about pretty much every universe but I'm getting the sense you're all focusing on IDW or Aligned.

As much nostalgia as I feel for the G1 cartoon, I dismiss it completely when I think of TF cannon.

I do think of IDW only because they were the first and only people for a long time that took the TF origins seriously and fleshed out a real backstory.

The High Moon games and the Prime TV series both adapted most if not all of that history as well, which is why I consider it widely accepted cannon.

Hi-Q wrote:As much nostalgia as I feel for the G1 cartoon, I dismiss it completely when I think of TF cannon.

I do think of IDW only because they were the first and only people for a long time that took the TF origins seriously and fleshed out a real backstory.

The High Moon games and the Prime TV series both adapted most if not all of that history as well, which is why I consider it widely accepted cannon.

Well...no, actually. On two fronts: G1 is always canon, to G1, at least. There is no one canon for Transformers, so something can only be non-canon if it's heavily contradicted by a work it's supposed to be related to. (A lot of the tie-in stuff for the movies, for instance)

Second, the idea of Megatron going from Gladiator to conqueror is from the G1 Marvel comics, along with the concept of Primus. The idea of the Original 13 dates between '03 to '04, during the Dreamwave era. IDW didn't really add anything new to the origin story, though it stands to reason that Simon Furman, who also pretty much ran IDW's Transformers comics, also came up with the vast majority of the mythos as we know it today.

I wasn't saying I dismissed the G1 comics.

Hi-Q wrote:I wasn't saying I dismissed the G1 comics.

I didn't say cartoon or comics, because it doesn't really matter. G1 cartoon is canon with G1 cartoon, G1 Marvel Comics are canon with G1 Marvel Comics.

I think the word decepticon kinda says it all. while I'm sure some of the cons joined up for their own good reasons I don't think a army bent on galactic domination through tyranny can be considered the good guys.

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:But then again you're of the Raksha mentality and therefore either really stupid or a psychopath, so you'll just continue defending your inane point.

Remember kids, snakes do not make you look cool, when you still obsess over non-existent facets from an '80s kids cartoon.

Maybe Dark Energon and Raskha are only type of people who root for WWE heels, Mario Balotelli, Terrell Owens, etc.