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Bayonetta

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Bayonetta

Postby robofreak » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:08 am

I played the game and I'm honestly not sure what to think of it after playing it.

The story and idea was definitely decent. I liked it, but my main issue with the game is Bayonetta herself. Why would I have issue with the main character? mostly cause of what the designers did with her. I like that they made a game with a strong heroine lead, but what I don't like is that the designers want you to spend a ridiculous amount of time oogling her as she does provocative poses, dances on a stripper pole, and basically trying too hard to make her a sex symbol. I feel the focus on her being overly sexy really takes away from the story.

The combat system did make me want to pull out DMC again though.

I'm hoping that Bayonetta 2 backs off on the matureness.

What does everyone else think? I'm curious.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby Counterpunch » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:34 am

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Don't be so sensitive. Having played through that game 4 or 5 times now there isn't anything that actually demeans women in it. Sure, Bayonetta flaunts her sexuality, but doesn't Dante by having his chest exposed and his pants unnecessarily tight? Don't all male character's flaunt it by being more bad-ass than any Mary Sue could ever hope to be?

Is Bayonetta over the top? Yes, it is and it's over the top, back around again and back to the top. It knows that it's got over-blown aggrandizement of the character's good looks and attitude. That's called spectacle. It's meant to be fun.

I really don't like it when guys take this position on a game or genre because it always feels so disingenuous to me. When I hear complaints, particularly about Bayonetta, my first thought is...Are you gay? Then I think, no...every gay man I know would see this for what it is, laugh, and say "You go girl."

Then it gets into my head that guys who focus in on the sexuality of a game like Bayonetta are either white knighting it, or aren't comfortable with any kind of aggressive female character.

Now, robofreak, I'm not picking on you per se...you just happened to bring up a topic that has come up recently and as a matter of game vs storytelling, I fail to see the other side of this argument.

Will the antics in the game sell it to some more base people? Sure. However, to everyone who's kind of with it, the game is like a big inside joke that's very easy to get. To me, if you can't see what's going on and how her aggressive, sexualized (but never delivering) attitude isn't part of the story...then you're missing the point.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:11 am

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I have the demo, and it was fun for a few times, but kind of got boring afterwords.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby Counterpunch » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:23 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:I have the demo, and it was fun for a few times, but kind of got boring afterwords.


Isn't that because you only have the demo to play? You can get this game for $20 now and you should.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby Shadowman » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:56 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Counterpunch wrote:Don't be so sensitive. Having played through that game 4 or 5 times now there isn't anything that actually demeans women in it. Sure, Bayonetta flaunts her sexuality, but doesn't Dante by having his chest exposed and his pants unnecessarily tight? Don't all male character's flaunt it by being more bad-ass than any Mary Sue could ever hope to be?


The difference here is that they aren't going out of their way to make you notice "OMG they're showing off their bodies!" For instance, Dante doesn't rip his pants off as an attack. of the two times we've seen Solid Snake without a shirt, one of those times nearly caused his doctor to break down into tears because of how badly damaged he was.

Counterpunch wrote:I really don't like it when guys take this position on a game or genre because it always feels so disingenuous to me. When I hear complaints, particularly about Bayonetta, my first thought is...Are you gay? Then I think, no...every gay man I know would see this for what it is, laugh, and say "You go girl."


Wow. Your first thought is to insult people for not having the same taste in games as you? I really can't believe you'd think something like that.

EDIT: Sorry, Snake was shirtless four times (if you count MGS3), and of those two times, he was being tortured.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby Counterpunch » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:56 am

Motto: "...and I used to be such a nice guy."
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Shadowman wrote:Wow. Your first thought is to insult people for not having the same taste in games as you? I really can't believe you'd think something like that.


Wow. You can't tell the difference between insulting someone and calling them disingenuous.

For the record, when the "Are you gay?" question comes to mind, it's not put out there as an insult, but rather that I can't see a straight male being bothered to complain about a hot girl acting hot in a game based around demons, the underworld, and all things dark. >:oP

Edit: You know...nevermind.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby Shadowman » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:19 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Counterpunch wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Wow. Your first thought is to insult people for not having the same taste in games as you? I really can't believe you'd think something like that.


Wow. You can't tell the difference between insulting someone and calling them disingenuous.


You didn't say "Are you disingenuous" You said "Are you gay." They are not the same thing.

Counterpunch wrote:For the record, when the "Are you gay?" question comes to mind, it's not put out there as an insult, but rather that I can't see a straight male being bothered to complain about a hot girl acting hot in a game based around demons, the underworld, and all things dark. >:oP


I don't think Bayonetta is hot. She has Marge Simpson's hair and her legs are just unnatural. Now, Lightning from FF13? I have problems with 13, but she isn't one of them. Hot, realistic, (Except for hair color, maybe), and a genuinely skilled soldier, and fairly modest. (By Final Fantasy standards, at least) Arcee from TF: Prime is the same way, she's actually my favorite character on the show because of it.

So, no, it has nothing to do with homosexuality, I just don't think stripping as a primary attack constitutes a strong female lead.

Counterpunch wrote:Edit: You know...nevermind.


EDIT: Eh, also nevermind.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby Counterpunch » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:47 pm

Motto: "...and I used to be such a nice guy."
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Shadowman wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Wow. Your first thought is to insult people for not having the same taste in games as you? I really can't believe you'd think something like that.


Wow. You can't tell the difference between insulting someone and calling them disingenuous.


You didn't say "Are you disingenuous" You said "Are you gay." They are not the same thing.


Sorry dude, but that question isn't an insult in my mind. I don't use the word in that manner.

To the point, even my original post was pretty clear about that. >:oP

I really don't like it when guys take this position on a game or genre because it always feels so disingenuous to me. When I hear complaints, particularly about Bayonetta, my first thought is...Are you gay? Then I think, no...every gay man I know would see this for what it is, laugh, and say "You go girl."


It's too bad you wanted to pick a fight over that point when a little bit of careful reading would have shown it to be unnecessary.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby Shadowman » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:54 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
It may not have been meant as an insult but it's very hard to not see it that way, even when you do re-read your post.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby robofreak » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:29 pm

Okay, I seem to have opened a can of worms here.

I had no problem with the game and for all intents and purposes, I enjoyed it. Hack and slash horror survival games like this are my favorite kind of game to play.

I have no problem with the sexuality, what I had an issue with was that it bordered on "too much". Does that make sense? Her costume and everything was really good. I could have done without the beehive hair, but I'll live. To me, she could have been a little provacative, but not to the extent that she was in the game. I guess you can look at it as the difference between ROTF and DOTM in temrs of sexual homur. Tone it down, but keep it present to an extent.

Since when is Dante overly sexual? He had no shirt only during DMC 3 and in all the games, he usually has baggy pants or chaps that hide any of his looks.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:57 pm

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To me her over-the-top flaunting was done in an ironic or sarcastic kind of way. Like she was deliberately parodying the role of sexy female heroine.
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Re: Bayonetta

Postby Counterpunch » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:25 am

Motto: "...and I used to be such a nice guy."
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Evil_the_Nub wrote:To me her over-the-top flaunting was done in an ironic or sarcastic kind of way. Like she was deliberately parodying the role of sexy female heroine.


:APPLAUSE:
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