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JOP wrote: Criticism of the original cartoon in no way absolves the movieverse of criticism (and that's before we even account for the questionable fairness of such a comparison). This is why I asked my question.

And your 100% right. The faults of one universe of TF doesn't merit the faults of another. BUt at the same time, one can't hold certain faults of a part of said universe, then another hold on a high pedistal for the same "faults". In this case the aurgument was the movie characters all looked the same. Problem is the same can be said in G1 in terms of design. Yes, they might have been different colors, but one can't aurgue that there designs were really that unique to each character and claim that they were ulitmatly superior to there movie counterparts. Espeacialy when there designs were unquie to each bot, as well as each idiviudal bot had there own specific color. Heack even the twins who were supposed to look alike, had key design features unquie to them. BUt that also bring me to your next point..

JOP wrote:I'm not sure I can agree with your assessment regarding 'color differential'; indeed, how do we determine such a thing? For instance: are we to count the number of unique colors present in a single version of the franchise? If so, the sheer number of characters present in the original cartoon, and smaller number present in the movies, would most likely sway any count in favor of the former. Perhaps we should first create a methodology for measuring color differential before we draw our conclusions?.

NO. I think your over thinking this. (and i don't mean this to be condencending in any way. please don't take it that way. ) Basicly i believe all thats really being said is that because G1 bots were different colors its easy to tell them apart, regardless of their designs. But the same aurgument can be used for the movie verse since they too have different colors to dishtingwish them from one another.

JOP wrote:I would also like to point out that - at least insofar as I understand these things - that much of the criticism of the movie designs relates specifically to their appearance on-screen, often in sequences containing high levels of movement and / or other visual excitement (explosions, for instance). This is an environ in which designs containing high levels of uniformly-colored detail and complexity do not, traditionally, excel. (I also believe that to a certain extent, the Generation 1 cartoon sidestepped this issue simply by virtue of its animated status.) To argue the merits of the designs outside of the context of the media in which they appear strikes me as disingenuous.

I see your point and where your going with this. But to be fair, i think Bay & Co. did a good job in trying to differentrate the bots during fighting sequences. Slowing down fight sceneces, to changing bot colors from the movie versions to the toys so they two are better dishtingwished (Baumble Bee vs. Rampage for example. Rampage was specificly made red so the audience can tell them apart better). Now granted, some scences are going to be harder to tell apart than otheres. BUt the same can be said with nearly any action movie. Personally, i've had an easier time telling apart TF in Bay's movies than many Human based war movies.

5150 Cruiser wrote:And your 100% right. The faults of one universe of TF doesn't merit the faults of another. But at the same time, one can't hold certain faults of a part of said universe, then another hold on a high pedestal for the same "faults". In this case the argument was the movie characters all looked the same. Problem is the same can be said in G1 in terms of design. Yes, they might have been different colors, but one can't argue that there designs were really that unique to each character and claim that they were ultimately superior to there movie counterparts. Especially when there designs were unique to each bot, as well as each individual bot had there own specific color. Heck even the twins who were supposed to look alike, had key design features unique to them. But that also bring me to your next point..

I agree; criticizing the movie design aesthetic for its visually confusing elements - while also arguing that the same is not true of the Generation 1 cartoon - would be to a certain extent hypocritical. (There may be a extenuating argument regarding the simplified art style of traditional hand-drawn animation versus the complexities of photo-realistic CGI, but that's a whole other discussion).

Having said this, I am of the impression (and I could well be mistaken) that no-one in this thread has taken the active, explicit position of "Movieverse design aesthetic is to be criticized, Generation 1 cartoon design aesthetic is not". Certainly, one might infer such a position from the current discussion - but this strikes me as dangerously close to tilting-at-windmills territory.

5150 Cruiser wrote:I see your point and where your going with this. But to be fair, i think Bay & Co. did a good job in trying to differentiate the bots during fighting sequences. Slowing down fight scenes, to changing bot colors from the movie versions to the toys so they two are better distinguished (Bumblebee vs. Rampage for example. Rampage was specifically made red so the audience can tell them apart better). Now granted, some scenes are going to be harder to tell apart than others. But the same can be said with nearly any action movie. Personally, I've had an easier time telling apart TF in Bay's movies than many Human based war movies.

Although I am of the opinion that some of the earlier fight scenes were visually confusing, I will happily acknowledge that this is something the filmmakers have attempted to address in a variety of ways during the progression of the trilogy - and in the event that there is a forth Transformers film, this trend will most likely continue. I will also agree that the simple introduction of primary colors does much to provide contrast between characters compared to, say, a war epic; although I would also point out that the extraordinary degree of movement, and ability to change size and shape, add a dimension of complexity often not present in a comparative human scene.

I though this would be interresting.
Here some of the Top of my head.
Optimus Prime,Jazz,Bumblebee,Roadbuster, Dino/Mirage,Sentinel
Megatron,Soundwave,Starscream,The Dreads,Blackout,Sideways,Barricade,Rampage

Wow, haven't seen this thread in a while.

If I had to pick one, it'd be Jazz. He's as close to perfect as it gets. Head sculpt looks like his G1 counterpart, his body looks agile and athletic which adds to his hipster personality.

Haha! I posted earlier in this thread but in all the discussion, never contributed to the actual topic!
That being said i have to say my favorite movie design has to be Sentinel Prime. Grreat alt mode and Robot mode!

Optimus Prime - Yeah they played it safe but he's still awesome. I know it's sacreligious to say this but I like movieverse Optimus a lot better than any of his other incarnations. Him not being afraid to kill makes him a much better leader imo.

Bumblebee - I love him, especially with his battle helmet.

Ironhide - He's my favorite autobot design in the movie. He just looks so damn badass.I actually enjoy his design better than any of the cartoon ones.


Dark of the Moon Soundwave - I still like G1 Soundwave better, but I thought the design of the Mercedes version looked awesome.

Shockwave - My favorite dsign by far. I just wish they did more with the character.

PumpkinSwirl wrote:Optimus Prime - Yeah they played it safe but he's still awesome. I know it's sacreligious to say this but I like movieverse Optimus a lot better than any of his other incarnations. Him not being afraid to kill makes him a much better leader imo.

Bumblebee - I love him, especially with his battle helmet.

Ironhide - He's my favorite autobot design in the movie. He just looks so damn badass.I actually enjoy his design better than any of the cartoon ones.


Dark of the Moon Soundwave - I still like G1 Soundwave better, but I thought the design of the Mercedes version looked awesome.

Shockwave - My favorite dsign by far. I just wish they did more with the character.

Hasbro admitted they underestimated his importance. Let's all go cry in our beer over that one.

Holy Necrothread Batman!

RhA wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:That's a tough call, but I'd have to say Optimus is my favorite.

Of all the designs I thought Prime was the 'play-it-safe' character. Still an excellent design, IMO.

I think the same can be said for Bumblebee. I know, "Camaro big differnt from G1lolololo!" but for all of the 'different' toys he got, you'd think they could have maybe punched up his movie robot design a little. Prime was sort of the safe one because his deisgn is still encompassing of the things that make Prime iconic really, and looking at movie Prime you can see the evolution through all of them, all the way back to G1. BB is just one of those Decepticon clones with some yellow highlights and fluid retention issues.

I really like Brawl from the first film and Sentinal Prime. The Dreads were fairly cool as well. The Constructicons were neat, and I really liked Demolisher because he was something different without having to be like those awful Arcee clones. REALLY hated Starscream, as he's my favorite character. Made me think of Armada or Cybertron SS, where the body shape doesn't really make me think of a sleek, lethal air commander.

Now that I think about it, Ravage and Scorponok also had pretty well-defined shapes.

So those are my top 3: Shockwave, Scorponok, and Ravage.