RiddlerJ wrote:What I hate is there are people who made the franchise successful in the first place. Furman, Flint Dille, who knows how many people who designed the toys and cartoons and books. People without whom there would be no Transfomrers today. Instead they give it to some guy who saw a property to fix his own sagging career with, or as he originally called it "a stupid toy movie".
Mkall wrote:What I love is how quick people are to dismiss Bay's contributions because they think their heroes are better.
Mkall wrote:Bay absolutely qualifies for your statement "without whom there would be no Transformers today" because without Bay we may be back in the dead days post-G2. Instead we're in the hayday of popularity, with a whole new generation of children buying toys and making memories.
Mkall wrote:RiddlerJ wrote:What I hate is there are people who made the franchise successful in the first place. Furman, Flint Dille, who knows how many people who designed the toys and cartoons and books. People without whom there would be no Transfomrers today. Instead they give it to some guy who saw a property to fix his own sagging career with, or as he originally called it "a stupid toy movie".
What I love is how quick people are to dismiss Bay's contributions because they think their heroes are better.
Furman and Dille are great people and their past contributions were magnificient and they deserve all the respect they can get for doing something with the Transformers.
But their contributions pale in comparison to Michael Bay's. Do you know why?
Because neither of them have their name attached to the BILLIONS of dollars that are flooding into Paramount and Hasbro because of the movies today.
Bay absolutely qualifies for your statement "without whom there would be no Transformers today" because without Bay we may be back in the dead days post-G2. Instead we're in the hayday of popularity, with a whole new generation of children buying toys and making memories.
Like him or hate him, Bay's name is attached to that in a big way; whatever his reasons for doing so in the first place.
This is coming from someone who really enjoys Furman's work, and not a huge fan of Bay's or the Movieverse in general, but respect is given where it's due.
Covenant wrote:Better? How about here first? How about the reason Transformers is here at all? How about the very reasons the POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE made it long enough for Bay to jump onboard? What I hate is how quick some people are to dismiss all things past to over protect the new.
Jaynz wrote:Yes, here's a list of the non-existant 'dead days' of Transformers lines before Bay's movies came out. You may have heard of a couple:
Beast Wars
Beast Machines
Robots in Disguise
Armada
Energon
Only one of which didn't do well (Beast Machines).
Jaynz wrote:Let's be honest here, no matter WHAT you think of these two, the only reason (and I mean the ONLY reason) that they're being indoctrinated this year is to hype up the new movie coming out. There was absolutely no other thought in mind as to why this decision was made - it's pure marketing bullshit.
Actually, I'm going to take it a step further. Look at the "Iconic Autobots" they chose for this year as well? Ironhide and Ratchet? MAYBE Ironhide, but Ratchet? You mean Hot Rod, or even Hot Shot had less of an impact? Cheetor ring a bell? I'm sure this decision ALSO has NOTHING to do with these two being two of the leads in the new movie either...
Filthy whoring.
Mkall wrote:Like him or hate him, you cannot deny the fact he's taken Transformers to a new level of popularity, and has turned it into the - as you put it - POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE. You want to argue the order in which these people get inducted into the Hall of Fame? Well that's an entirely different debate.
Jaynz wrote:I think you may have misinterpretted my point. I meant Post-G2, where there were no figures on the shelves and no one knew if there was ever going to be another TF Line. Except for after Beast Machines, which was another dead time, it's been pretty much a straight production of Transformers lines, give or take a few months for line changes.
Jaynz wrote:And Ratchet? If it were Animated Ratchet, you may have something... but are you really going to tell me THAT was a worthy choice of 'most iconic Transformers characters of all time'?
Mkall wrote:Covenant wrote:Better? How about here first? How about the reason Transformers is here at all? How about the very reasons the POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE made it long enough for Bay to jump onboard? What I hate is how quick some people are to dismiss all things past to over protect the new. It was never a pop-culture thing before the movies came out.
You're using a weird term that was never associated with Transformers before the latest movies: Popular Culture.
Mkall wrote: Maybe in the 80's when it first aired, but certainly not since 1988 or so.
Mkall wrote:If you want to thank anyone for keeping Transformers alive it would be the Japanese who kept Transformers going for 15 years while the US just imported it and dubbed over top of it and re-used the toy molds.
Mkall wrote:Please tell me where I'm dismissing everyone who came before Bay. I outright said I like Furman's work more than Bay's and I really hope Furman gets officially recognized in the near future along with Dille and others who formed the foundation.
Mkall wrote:You want to argue the order in which these people get inducted into the Hall of Fame? Well that's an entirely different debate.
Covenant wrote:why wouldn't someone in the Japanese end of things not deserve a spot in this TF Hall of Fame before a current movie director as well? So yes, a thanks to Japan, and then yes a thanks for the import/redub/repacking for release in another country. Can't be worldwide if you don't start jumping into different countries now can you.
Jaynz wrote:Mkall wrote:Like him or hate him, you cannot deny the fact he's taken Transformers to a new level of popularity, and has turned it into the - as you put it - POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE. You want to argue the order in which these people get inducted into the Hall of Fame? Well that's an entirely different debate.
The point is that IT ALREADY WAS A WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE that was ALREADY WORTH BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
I think you may have misinterpretted my point. I meant Post-G2, where there were no figures on the shelves and no one knew if there was ever going to be another TF Line. Except for after Beast Machines, which was another dead time, it's been pretty much a straight production of Transformers lines, give or take a few months for line changes.[/quote]Jaynz"There are a lot of people who made that happen, after all. And, hell, I think Shia LaBouf deserves the nod a hell of a lot more than Spielberg that basically signed a couple of contracts and said "Yeah, Paramount wants this movie done. I need to talk to George about this Shia kid anyway for something else I'm doing."[/quote]
I agree that Shia should get it too. We can agree on that too. Maybe next year?
[quote="Jaynz wrote:
I get that you're a fan of the movies, and more power to ya, but you do NOT get to make up your facts to support his ascension.
Covenant wrote:Mkall wrote:Covenant wrote:Better? How about here first? How about the reason Transformers is here at all? How about the very reasons the POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE made it long enough for Bay to jump onboard? What I hate is how quick some people are to dismiss all things past to over protect the new. It was never a pop-culture thing before the movies came out.
You're using a weird term that was never associated with Transformers before the latest movies: Popular Culture.
That's actually the first denial of such of thing I've seen in my thirty years.
Seibertron wrote:
Seibertron.com is a Transformers fansite. It is not a fansite about 3rd party products. I do NOT care for 3rd party products. I am TIRED of seeing the stuff here on this site. That's all it comes down to.
Burn wrote:Jaynz wrote:And Ratchet? If it were Animated Ratchet, you may have something... but are you really going to tell me THAT was a worthy choice of 'most iconic Transformers characters of all time'?
Ratchet in the old Marvel comics.
'nuff said.
Mkall wrote:I agree that Shia should get it too. We can agree on that too. Maybe next year?
Dead time is time between toy lines. Unlike today, there were YEARS before a line ended and a new line began, these times were between G2 and Beast Wars and Beast Machines and Robots in disguise.
Tack onto that the years that Transformers only exists in Japan pre-Beast Wars and there's a number higher than 15.
I get that you DON'T like the movies, but don't let personal oppinion cloud your judgement.
Fonecrusher wrote:The ironic thing is for every childhood that apparently got ruined, many more were made, how many kids would of got into Transformers soley based on the movies?
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