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With all due respect Ryan, just because Chicago has the most Bears fans, doesn't mean they should play all their games at home.

Same with Botcon.

Fender Bender wrote:With all due respect Ryan, just because Chicago has the most Bears fans, doesn't mean they should play all their games at home.

Same with Botcon.

That doesn't make any sense at all and is a poor comparison. A football team has to travel to play other teams. It's not about traveling so that fans in other locations can see their favorite team play football.

Seibertron wrote:

Fender Bender wrote:With all due respect Ryan, just because Chicago has the most Bears fans, doesn't mean they should play all their games at home.

Same with Botcon.

That doesn't make any sense at all and is a poor comparison. A football team has to travel to play other teams. It's not about traveling so that fans in other locations can see their favorite team play football.

I disagree. If that was 100% the case, there would be no inter-conference football.

Anyway, you're looking at the stats you posted that 1 million out of 8 million is a majority because no other single state has as many.

I look at it that 7 million of those 8 million visitors don't live in California. So if you're going to stay in an area with 1 million and allienate 7 million, I don't see the logic. At best, they should come back more often to California than other staes, but it shouldn't be there 1/2 the time or more when only 1/8 the population is there.

Fender Bender wrote:I look at it that 7 million of those 8 million visitors don't live in California. So if you're going to stay in an area with 1 million and allienate 7 million, I don't see the logic. At best, they should come back more often to California than other staes, but it shouldn't be there 1/2 the time or more when only 1/8 the population is there.

What about the cost of shipping the exclusives from the shipping port to elsewhere in the country?

What about the cost of the talent (or rather the lack of when it is not in California)?

What about IDW, Activision, Universal Studios, Paramount, etc being out in California?

Last year, there was very little talent in Texas and IDW wasn't even there.

How are you able to compare what they're able to do with BotCon when it's in California versus when it's elsewhere when you haven't been to one on the west coast before? If you were at BotCon 2011 in Pasadena and BotCon 2012 in Texas ... you know the difference. BotCon 2011 was amazing ... the sheer amount of talent that attended was really awesome, especially when compared to how little talent was in Texas.

I think there is a good way of settling this. FunPub and all other participants of BotCon (HasTak, etc.) should do an official poll on their website. The question should be "What is the main draw for fans to the convention?" If the majority vote for the talent, then it's a valued argument. If they vote for the exclusives, the cost of shipping them to CA vs. anywhere else is also a valued argument. The point is, whatever the fans choose as THE main reason for their attendance is the valued argument. It's a good way of settling this debate.

I see the point of saving costs by having it in CA all the time. I also agree with you, Ryan, about them picking at date and location and sticking with it. But until they do, it just looks like favoritism and quite frankly, laziness.

I do agree with Fender Bender on his statement about the stats. Just because 1/8 of the traffic on this site comes from CA, doesn't mean it's a clear winner for the location. There's the other 7/8 of the fandom. Granted, people from AZ, OR, WA, even some other Western states might not mind as much, but some of us on the East Coast can't make the trip every single year. Especially when the exclusives aren't really that appealing. But then, I guess it comes down to the reason a fan wants to attend. The atmosphere? The talent? Etc.

My 1st (and for the forseeable future my last) BotCon was in 2011, so I'm probably a bit spoiled. That event was worth the trip, even if it was with 3 women all on their periods. No joke.

There is always gonna be complaining from people who wish it was in their backyard. Botcon, like anything else one wants in life requires some commitment. I was fortunate enough to have one in my home state in 2011 and just over an hour of travel to get to as well. However, I have attended the ones in Cali too, because I choose to. I commit to making it happen. If I want something badly enough, I will make it work. Complaining about it certainly won't cause the location to be changed. I'm not tickled pink about the heightened travel cost to the other end of the country. I am happy it's in a place I have never been though. Bottom line is, man up and go or don't. No one needs to hear (or read) the constant bickering every year about where the con is held.

Fender Bender wrote:We're fully aware, quite a few of us know the people who run or have been to several of the smaller conventions. We've also had the experiences of Botcon first hand....

And have you experienced first-hand what did happen at Anime Expo in 2007? Besides the overbooking of guests, as their excuse was that many did not respond in time... They did not explain the poor organization. As in the questioning of where the lines were. Why the staff had no clue where any events outside the convention were. And even the fact that the Long Beach Auditorium security being implemented against their wishes. And add this to the combination of heat and humidity that could cause a person with a lesser constitution to pass out.

The point is that Anime Expo is based on an organization that owns it, which means that they can make any changes needed and still function fine. Fun Pub does not have that benefit as they are on a constant tightrope wire. Meaning that atop of them licensing the rights to do anything with Transformers, they also know that any missteps can cause them to lose the rights to this convention, much less cease being a publication tied to this franchise. Which is why they have to play it safe and go with areas that they are very familiar with, can get the best rates at that time, and can be beneficial if any contingency plans need to be enforced.

You do realize that Fun Pub is located in Fort Worth, Texas, right? Southern California is just as far away as doing anything in the Great Lakes, Midwest, or East Coast. As for walk ins, which seems to be the only number Hasbro/Fun Pub care about, that really depends on the relative location to a large population center. Obviously Chicago or Los Angeles will have more walk ins than Lexington, KY or San Diego.

And I am also aware that I am neither ignorant nor stupid. However, your responses have me think you do not fully comprehend that. So here is the simple clue: I am not.

As we speak, I am looking at the locations that BotCon was held - Both before and after Brian Savage of Fun Publications was in charge of this convention. As in (from 2005-2012)... Texas, Kentucky, Rhode Island, Ohio, California, Florida, California, and Texas. Oh wait, I'm on a pedestal. So I should not point out that they never held it in San Diego... And have held it in the east coast ever since their acquisition of BotCon.

Now add the changes and challenges they have faced each and every time they were in those areas. Add the fact that earlier this year, they had security breaches. Add the fact that they are making changes to how they handle TFCC. Add the fact that there are factors to these things.

And San Diego? Do you have a clue how much there is to do there? SeaWorld, San Diego Zoo/Safari Walk, beaches, a short drive to Lego Land, shopping districts, and other things that would allow a Botcon attendee to do when they are not at Botcon.

It may be coincidence, but have you thought about the location being a factor as to why Anime Expo is ending? Botcon has been rumored to desiring a permanent spot in Southern California. What makes you think the same thing won't happen if they do that too?

Anime Expo was reformatted due to the major issues that they faced. Look it up. Because their current location was in part of the fact that those in charge of the 2007 event were replaced. They also signed a lease in hopes of preventing that issue from repeating. And everything else you will find if you chose to stop being dismissive of the facts.

Botcon is a different case. From its debut to now, only two organizations controlled it. And the locations were as follow:

1994: Grand Wayne Center, Fort Wayne, Indiana -- July 16 [3]
1995: Dayton Convention Center, Dayton, Ohio -- August 5–6 [4]
1996: Radisson Hotel Rosemont (formerly Clarion Resort Rosemont), Rosemont, Illinois -- July 12–14 [5]
1997: Rochester Riverside Convention Center, Rochester, New York -- July 18–20
BotCon Japan 1997: Science and Technology Hall, Tokyo, Japan -- June 8
1998: Anaheim Convention Center, Anaheim, California -- June 19–21
BotCon Japan 1998: Sevencity Hall, Tokyo, Japan—December 12–13
1999: Touchstone Energy Place (formerly RiverCentre), St. Paul, Minnesota -- July 16–18
BotCon Europe 1999: Barnabas Center, London, United Kingdom -- August 13–14
2000: Grand Wayne Center, Fort Wayne, Indiana—July 28–30
BotCon Japan 2000: Trade and Industry Center, Tokyo, Japan—December 17
2001: Durham Marriott Civic Center, Durham, North Carolina -- July 13–15
2002: Grand Wayne Center, Fort Wayne, Indiana—July 26–28
BotCon Europe 2002: Wolsey Hall, Cheshunt, United Kingdom—November 3
OTFCC 2003: Hyatt Regency O'Hare, Rosemont, Illinois—July 25–27
OTFCC 2004: Donald E. Stephens Convention Center, Rosemont, Illinois—July 31 - August 1
BotCon 2004: Pasadena Conference Center, Pasadena, California -- June 19–20
2005: Embassy Suites, Frisco, Texas -- September 22–25
2006: Lexington Convention Center, Lexington, Kentucky -- September 27 - October 1
2007: Rhode Island Convention Center, Providence, Rhode Island, Hasbro's home state, the weekend before the live-action Transformers movie was released—June 28 - July 1
2008: Duke Energy Center, Cincinnati, Ohio -- April 24–27
2009: Pasadena Conference Center, Pasadena, California—May 28–31
2010: Walt Disney World Dolphin Resort, Lake Buena Vista, Florida—June 24–27
2011: Pasadena Conference Center, Pasadena, California—June 2–5
2012: Hyatt Regency Dallas, Dallas, Texas -- April 26–29

In other words, California held it 5 times. And only twice was it run by Fun Pub. But even then, they have made it clear that they are making changes that will allow them to continue doing this. So if they feel if it is beneficial to run it in California, then there is a reason for it.

Again, you are aware their base of operations is in Texas, right? Can't even say Hasbro's HQ is there, as that is in Providence, Rhode Island. I personally think the outcry is that 4 out of the last 9 Botcons have been in Southern California. Chances are, with Movie 4 coming out next year, it will again be in San Diego/Pasadena. So that makes 5 of the last 10. HALF! Considering Botcon originally started in the Great Lakes area (Indiana to be precise) and it was known for moving around, to get stuck in this Southern California rut is a turn off to quite a few people.

And you also know that you are not making a good case for your ignorance, right? You state 9, yet only 7 of the 18 were done by Fun Pub. You also dismissed the fact that I am talking about the business end and the possible limitations that they are facing. The history, the risks, and everything else you are ignoring. Their location does not say what states dictate failure or success, only where they are stationed. The location they choose dictates the difference between failure and success.

So when it came to their run, they seem to have success in Pasadena, as dictated by the fact that it was held at the same place twice. The rest, even those overseas, were held once. Why? Because of everything from bookings to technical and financial issues tend to disallow a series-specific convention to be held in the same location twice. That is, unless they decided to shrink it down and house it in a financially safe region, and do not care that it is a shadow of its former glory.

It's easy to put yourself on a pedestal when the convention is in your backyard. Hell, it's easy to wish for a permanent location...when you live near that location. Point is, the majority of the fandom does not live in Southern California and to continue to stay in that small corner of the country is beginning to take it's toll on the American fandom.

I live in Oxnard, California (look it up). That is 186 miles north of San Diego. I make $625 a month, with an estimated $225 going towards bills and other expenses. Now add the amount of gas it would cost me just to attend even a single day. And also add the fact that I am also in talks of possibility of attending Anime Expo within the same week. That is held in Los Angeles, once again, and I will be lucky not to pay for gas and parking. Atop of that, I am on the verge of needing my car replaced... I need to have all my current Transformers (see list below) be graded by AFA... And have other expenses that may disallow me to attend Anime Expo for a second year.

Yeah... If I am on a pedestal, then it must also mean that Botcon is also hosted by Rod Sterling, and is going to be seen in the Twilight Zone.

And that's why Dairycon, Slagacon, Charticon, and TFCon exist. As you will notice, all these conventions are in the north and the east. There is a serious vacuum left open with the absense of Botcon in the northeast. People have tried to influence Botcons decision making, but nothing the fandom will say will affect it.

And that is also why I did what you chose to do: Use facts and logic. Such as the fact that from 1994-2012, BotCon was held within the eastern portion of the United States. It was only held in one area twice. And if you bothered doing your research, you will also find that the decision is based on the fact they want to test out another region of California... And can always choose to go to a different state if it does not work out for them.

As long as Botcon stays in the southern 1/3 of the country, I won't be going. I'll instead opt for the other smaller conventions and possibly TFCon.

And as long as you keep up this attitude, you will never receive the respect you seem to think you deserve. Because your fanbase is based on your attitude. And since your attitude towards this sucks, it means you can either be treated the way you are acting... Or get over it and hope that the fans who attend have fun. Up to you, as I don't give a damn about those who have to be the way you acted when there are those who have managed to grow up and move on.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I think there is a good way of settling this. FunPub and all other participants of BotCon (HasTak, etc.) should do an official poll on their website. The question should be "What is the main draw for fans to the convention?" If the majority vote for the talent, then it's a valued argument. If they vote for the exclusives, the cost of shipping them to CA vs. anywhere else is also a valued argument. The point is, whatever the fans choose as THE main reason for their attendance is the valued argument. It's a good way of settling this debate.

I see the point of saving costs by having it in CA all the time. I also agree with you, Ryan, about them picking at date and location and sticking with it. But until they do, it just looks like favoritism and quite frankly, laziness.

I do agree with Fender Bender on his statement about the stats. Just because 1/8 of the traffic on this site comes from CA, doesn't mean it's a clear winner for the location. There's the other 7/8 of the fandom. Granted, people from AZ, OR, WA, even some other Western states might not mind as much, but some of us on the East Coast can't make the trip every single year. Especially when the exclusives aren't really that appealing. But then, I guess it comes down to the reason a fan wants to attend. The atmosphere? The talent? Etc.

My 1st (and for the forseeable future my last) BotCon was in 2011, so I'm probably a bit spoiled. That event was worth the trip, even if it was with 3 women all on their periods. No joke.

Just for the record, TOMY has no say in the United States. They allowed it to be held twice in Japan, but show no real regard for it to be a staple among their fan-based events.

Also, Fender Bender also dismissed a large number of other facts tied to this decision. Such as availability, costs, risks, and who can attend when it comes to selling their wares. Because even if 7/8th of the fandom says they will go if it is held in the east coast, it does not guarantee that they will. It also does not guarantee that they will obtain a quality (read: issue-free) convention center, sales persons that will be willing to follow any or all regulations, and the security for the fans outside the convention center (or hotel). Plus, also, it does not also guarantee that every fan is guaranteed a chance to attend the convention... As a larger location with better security and other aspects could turn a $20 entry fee into a $50 entry fee - And that does not include any real extras.

Then again, he dismissed a lot of what I said despite ignoring the previous locations, as well as the fact that my "back yard" is 186 miles away... And that I even said I might attend Anime Expo, which costs around $50 to attend.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Fun Pub does not have that benefit as they are on a constant tightrope wire. Meaning that atop of them licensing the rights to do anything with Transformers, they also know that any missteps can cause them to lose the rights to this convention, much less cease being a publication tied to this franchise. Which is why they have to play it safe and go with areas that they are very familiar with, can get the best rates at that time, and can be beneficial if any contingency plans need to be enforced.

Tight rope? Yeah ... if they were on a tight rope that credit card fiasco should have cost them the rights already.

And I am also aware that I am neither ignorant nor stupid. However, your responses have me think you do not fully comprehend that. So here is the simple clue: I am not.

He never said you were. Don't try to turn this into a flame war.

Oh wait, I'm on a pedestal.

And you also know that you are not making a good case for your ignorance, right?

And as long as you keep up this attitude, you will never receive the respect you seem to think you deserve. Because your fanbase is based on your attitude. And since your attitude towards this sucks, it means you can either be treated the way you are acting... Or get over it and hope that the fans who attend have fun. Up to you, as I don't give a damn about those who have to be the way you acted when there are those who have managed to grow up and move on.

Any further attitude like this towards other members will result in a warning. Just stop it now. Whether you feel Fender Bender deserves respect or not, you don't need to take that attitude towards him.

Let's all discuss this without turning it into personal attacks.

Ryan, that map was very interesting showing the traffic from the website. I do want to bring up an interesting point though.

The traffic numbers are skewed for California because, of the 300,000,000 people in the US, full 1/6th of this population lives in California. By that fact, that California only has 1/8th of the Seibertron traffic indicates a lower level of usage per capita than other states. This means a LOWER INTEREST LEVEL in Califonia. If it was directly indicative of the state's population percentage in the country, then 1/6th of the traffic should come from that state. So any argument using those numbers is technically invalid. ALso, by the same argument, ALL conventions should be in SoCal because that is where the most people are. If you continually host in the same location, you are also not spreading the brand as effectively as you could be by varying the location. If I were them I would be looking more at numbers like your "new web hits"; if you have increasing interest, a convention in that area could conceivably cement the growth of that brand in the area.

ANd it WILL be in Pasadena next year.

As for those talking the lack of star power in Dallas vs SoCal, that basically says that BotCon does not hold much weight from a marketing or sales standpoint, or general appeal. If it were really going to be a profitable trip, they would go no matter where it was.