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Botcon 2013 "Machine Wars: Termination" set revealed

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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Mindmaster » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:36 pm

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Manterax Prime wrote:
Mindmaster wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:All 2007 Movie toyline molds are off limits to Fun Pub.


Really? Never knew that.

Plus, this was his body before he became a helicopter.


Technically speaking, the V-22 Osprey isn't a helicopter. It is, however, designed with the functionality of both a helicopter and a plane. So it's kinda a neener-neener.

(And what I love about the Osprey aircraft is that only United States Marines and a tee-wee bit of the Air Force uses them. As an aspiring Marine, this amuses me :P )


Ah, but he wasn't an Osprey in Beast Machines. He was a Cybertronian helicopter. Now, Megaplex better be good, or it's no BotCon for me.


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God dammit, MP....
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Manterax Prime » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:59 pm

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Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
Mindmaster wrote:
Manterax Prime wrote:
Mindmaster wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:All 2007 Movie toyline molds are off limits to Fun Pub.


Really? Never knew that.

Plus, this was his body before he became a helicopter.


Technically speaking, the V-22 Osprey isn't a helicopter. It is, however, designed with the functionality of both a helicopter and a plane. So it's kinda a neener-neener.

(And what I love about the Osprey aircraft is that only United States Marines and a tee-wee bit of the Air Force uses them. As an aspiring Marine, this amuses me :P )


Ah, but he wasn't an Osprey in Beast Machines. He was a Cybertronian helicopter. Now, Megaplex better be good, or it's no BotCon for me.


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God dammit, MP....



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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby El Duque » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:22 pm

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Finding it really hard to get excited for this set. Hopefully the attendee only figures can save it for me.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Henry921 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:47 pm

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El Duque wrote:Finding it really hard to get excited for this set. Hopefully the attendee only figures can save it for me.


I'll lay odds on the attendee figure being Thundercracker, also mass produced through cloning. Just so FunPub can really infuriate the Iacon package guys. :D
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby rpetras » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:17 pm

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I really do like that mold, just not enough to pay botcon prices for it.

>:oP
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Mkall » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:34 pm

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El Duque wrote:Finding it really hard to get excited for this set. Hopefully the attendee only figures can save it for me.

Agreed.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby xyl360 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:41 am

Manterax Prime wrote:If only 3H hadn't tanked, we would still be getting AWESOME botcon figures, but no.....FunPub wants screw us over for crap.

But overall, it's Hasbro's fault for revoking 3H's rights to the TF line in the first place.

Agreed. I loved the 3H figures. Most of them were completely new/original characters and were great repaints. I guess all of the Botcon homages that Funpub does might sell better to most of the fandom, but I for one would prefer original characters instead of constantly trying to shoehorn existing characters into molds that hardly ever fit them (at least IMO).
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby CBratetron » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:56 am

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As much as I don't mind this mold, there's something remarkably Gobot-ish about it.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby GuyIncognito » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 am

While I'm not crazy about this mold and I hate this color scheme, I will say that it's a really good homage.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:07 am

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xyl360 wrote:
Manterax Prime wrote:If only 3H hadn't tanked, we would still be getting AWESOME botcon figures, but no.....FunPub wants screw us over for crap.

But overall, it's Hasbro's fault for revoking 3H's rights to the TF line in the first place.

Agreed. I loved the 3H figures. Most of them were completely new/original characters and were great repaints. I guess all of the Botcon homages that Funpub does might sell better to most of the fandom, but I for one would prefer original characters instead of constantly trying to shoehorn existing characters into molds that hardly ever fit them (at least IMO).
Fun Pub has created new character toys too:

2005 Buzzclaw
2005 Dirge
2005 Ricochet
2005 Flamewar
2005 Flareup
2005 Virulent Clones
2005 Skyfall
2006 Landquake
2006 Cybertron Astrotrain
2007 Breakaway
Every Shattered Glass character
2008 Topspin
2009 Landshark
2009 Heatwave
Every Fun Pub-released Animated character



And not every 3H figure was a new character. They also made new body toys for existing characters:

1994 Generation 2 Breakdown (technically, pre-3H, but still)
2001 Tigatron
2001 Arcee
2002 Cyclonus
2003 Sunstreaker
2003 Sideswipe
2004 Sentinel Maximus (a hybrid of the existing Apelinq and Primal Prime characters)
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby GuyIncognito » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:28 am

Sabrblade wrote:Fun Pub has created new character toys too:

2005 Buzzclaw
2005 Dirge
2005 Ricochet
2005 Flamewar
2005 Flareup
2005 Virulent Clones
2005 Skyfall
2006 Landquake
2006 Cybertron Astrotrain
2007 Breakaway
Every Shattered Glass character
2008 Topspin
2009 Landshark
2009 Heatwave
Every Fun Pub-released Animated character


I would argue that it doesn't count as a new character if they just take an existing character, change some of the details in its bio, and give it a new look. Many of those "new characters" you listed were really just new takes on existing characters.

Astrotrain's a great example. TFCC Astrotrain wasn't a new character. It's still Astrotrain.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:07 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
GuyIncognito wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Fun Pub has created new character toys too:

2005 Buzzclaw
2005 Dirge
2005 Ricochet
2005 Flamewar
2005 Flareup
2005 Virulent Clones
2005 Skyfall
2006 Landquake
2006 Cybertron Astrotrain
2007 Breakaway
Every Shattered Glass character
2008 Topspin
2009 Landshark
2009 Heatwave
Every Fun Pub-released Animated character


I would argue that it doesn't count as a new character if they just take an existing character, change some of the details in its bio, and give it a new look. Many of those "new characters" you listed were really just new takes on existing characters.

Astrotrain's a great example. TFCC Astrotrain wasn't a new character. It's still Astrotrain.


Buzzclaw: New
Insecticon Dirge: New
Ricochet: New
Flamewar: New (at the time)
Flareup: based on Firestar
Virulent Clones: new-ish
The Nexus Prime five: all new
Landshark: New

The rest had analogs in other continuities :-B
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Mkall » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:13 am

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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Buzzclaw: New
Insecticon Dirge: New
Ricochet: New
Flamewar: New (at the time)
Flareup: based on Firestar
Virulent Clones: new-ish
The Nexus Prime five: all new
Landshark: New

The rest had analogs in other continuities :-B

Don't forget Flak, although I suppose a character with the same name exists as a Micromaster. Whether that's intended or not I'm not sure.

I enjoy it when The Club comes up with new characters instead of mish-mashing or copy/pasting existing characters into new locations.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby GuyIncognito » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:33 am

How is 2005 Buzzclaw new, when Hasbro made Buzzclaw with the same mold in 1998? It's not like Fun Pub came up with the idea for Buzzclaw out of thin air. They might have altered the character to fit a new continuity, but they didn't create the character.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:16 pm

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
GuyIncognito wrote:How is 2005 Buzzclaw new, when Hasbro made Buzzclaw with the same mold in 1998? It's not like Fun Pub came up with the idea for Buzzclaw out of thin air. They might have altered the character to fit a new continuity, but they didn't create the character.


Prove the in-fiction link between BW Buzzclaw, and Timelines Buzzclaw, then I'll yield. Namesakes aren't exactly uncommon in any continuity you know?
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:13 pm

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GuyIncognito wrote:I would argue that it doesn't count as a new character if they just take an existing character, change some of the details in its bio, and give it a new look. Many of those "new characters" you listed were really just new takes on existing characters.

Astrotrain's a great example. TFCC Astrotrain wasn't a new character. It's still Astrotrain.
There was no Astrotrain in the Unicron Trilogy beforehand, nor were there any of the Animated characters they released (though, I'll admit I forgot about The Motor Master already existing pre-BotCon 2011, so scratch him off). And the exact nature of all the SG characters is to be the polar opposites of their namesakes.

Are you suggesting that all the Unicron Trilogy, Animated, and SG characters are the same people as those who share their names? A new name isn't a devout requirement for a new character to be made.

Mkall wrote:Don't forget Flak, although I suppose a character with the same name exists as a Micromaster. Whether that's intended or not I'm not sure.
Flak was originally gonna be colored like his G1 Micromaster self, but Hasbro wouldn't let Fun Pub use those colors since Hasbro had already released Universe Overload with G1 Flak's colors. I think it might be safe to say that Wings Universe Flak is meant to be G1 Flak pre-Micromaster body. ;)

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
GuyIncognito wrote:How is 2005 Buzzclaw new, when Hasbro made Buzzclaw with the same mold in 1998? It's not like Fun Pub came up with the idea for Buzzclaw out of thin air. They might have altered the character to fit a new continuity, but they didn't create the character.


Prove the in-fiction link between BW Buzzclaw, and Timelines Buzzclaw, then I'll yield. Namesakes aren't exactly uncommon in any continuity you know?
Exactly. Plus, 2005 Buzzclaw is a G1 character, existing before the era that BW Buzzclaw would exist in.

Bio comparison:

BW Buzzclaw
Part mantis, part lizard, Buzzclaw has all of the makings of a ferocious but sly warrior. In beast mode Buzzclaw crushes his enemies with spiny pincers and venomous mandibles while a powerful tail lashes out to land his surprised prey on their backside. As a flying robot Buzzclaw generates lethal ion discs from his forearm-mounted stilettos, paralyzing his victims and rendering them helpless. Generally stoic and silent, when it comes to the business of battle, Buzzclaw is arrogant, resourceful, and intent on the job at hand.

Strength - 6
Intelligence - 7
Speed - 5
Endurance - 5
Rank - 3
Courage - 5
Firepower - 5
Skill - 9

2005 Buzzclaw
"Mercy is a luxury afforded only to the weak."
Profile: Buzzclaw is one of the few remaining members of the ancient Insecticon clan, a group of powerful Transformer warriors dating back to the beginnings of the Great Wars. He is brash, loud and obnoxious. However, he is also dedicated to helping Deathsaurus bring the Decepticon Empire back as a major power in the galaxy. He sees this as an opportunity to practice his own brand of brutality on the population of planets everywhere. His past as a warrior in the gladatorial pits of Polyhex have afforded him skill and preference for hand-to-hand combat. He relishes the feeling of an enemy's body going limp at death in his hands or claws.

Abilities: Buzzclaw is trained in various forms of hand-to-hand combat and has spent eons using those skills in battle. His insectoid beast form allows him to use his skills in both modes, each allowing him to utilize different weapons. As a beast, he can use his claws and mandibles to tear enemies apart. In robot mode he uses his wrist mounted claws and shield in combat. Like all Insecticons, he has an innate ability to create clones out of himself from existing raw materials in his immediate vicinity, however the ability has become diluted over time as he has changed his exo-structures. It is this ability that Deathsaurus hopes to unlock from his genetic code.

Weakness: Buzzclaw's over-reliance on hand-to-hand combat makes him vulnerable in situations requiring more artilery-based solutions.

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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Mkall » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:04 am

Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
Sabrblade wrote:
GuyIncognito wrote:I would argue that it doesn't count as a new character if they just take an existing character, change some of the details in its bio, and give it a new look. Many of those "new characters" you listed were really just new takes on existing characters.

Astrotrain's a great example. TFCC Astrotrain wasn't a new character. It's still Astrotrain.
There was no Astrotrain in the Unicron Trilogy beforehand, nor were there any of the Animated characters they released (though, I'll admit I forgot about The Motor Master already existing pre-BotCon 2011, so scratch him off). And the exact nature of all the SG characters is to be the polar opposites of their namesakes.

Are you suggesting that all the Unicron Trilogy, Animated, and SG characters are the same people as those who share their names? A new name isn't a devout requirement for a new character to be made.

Sorry, but I disagree with you. In your example, they took pretty much everything that was Astrotrain (minus the -train part, but that's a mold restriction) and placed it in a new mold. That's no more a new character than IDW Springer is compared to G1 Springer.

A previous (usually G1) character in a new set of circumstances does not make a new character.

I will admit they did do more interesting things with the SG universe, but I stop short of calling them original characters. They just took aspects from more than one source and mashed them together. Optimus Prime is almost Galvatron in a different alt-mode and Megatron is darned similar in personality to Optimus Prime.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:29 am

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Weapon: Saber Blade
Mkall wrote:Sorry, but I disagree with you. In your example, they took pretty much everything that was Astrotrain (minus the -train part, but that's a mold restriction) and placed it in a new mold. That's no more a new character than IDW Springer is compared to G1 Springer.

A previous (usually G1) character in a new set of circumstances does not make a new character.
G1 Astrotrain's character schtick was "lover of confusion, panic, and fear". Cybertron Astrotrain's character schtick "bitter, wealthy bounty hunter". The personalities are hardly alike.

Not to mention the fact that his being a Cybertron character automatically makes him a different dude from G1 Astrotrain, unless you can find some in-fiction canon claim of the G1 dude having dimension-hopped or something.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Manterax Prime » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:08 am

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Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
I don't care about a character or name being recycled or not. I was just saying that 3H had a thing for choosing really great molds for figures, whether they be bricks or not. FunPub did some good figures, but now it seems they've run out of molds to use and are going to the crap movie molds. I mean, come on, Strika is good as is, but a repaint of Energon Demolishor would've worked better. And Obsidian? Any helicopter. Hoist vehicle mode is a fail as he's supposed to be a tow-truck, not a pic-kup. Skywarp, while shite, is the only one who looks correct.........to a degree.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Sinnertwin » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:43 am

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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:33 am

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Weapon: Saber Blade
Manterax Prime wrote:I don't care about a character or name being recycled or not. I was just saying that 3H had a thing for choosing really great molds for figures, whether they be bricks or not. FunPub did some good figures, but now it seems they've run out of molds to use and are going to the crap movie molds. I mean, come on, Strika is good as is, but a repaint of Energon Demolishor would've worked better. And Obsidian? Any helicopter. Hoist vehicle mode is a fail as he's supposed to be a tow-truck, not a pic-kup. Skywarp, while shite, is the only one who looks correct.........to a degree.
Fun Pub can only use whatever molds Hasbro makes available for them. The Unicron Trilogy molds have run their course and 2012 was the first year that none were available for Fun Pub to use. It seems they can now only use post-UT molds.

But, regarding the Movieverse molds, not all of them can be used either:
  • All Movie 1 molds are off limits
  • All on-screen character/Paramount-designed character molds from ROTF, 2010, and DOTM are off limits
  • Non-film character/non-Paramount-designed character molds from ROTF, 2010, and DOTM are okay (like how Bludgeon and Dirge have been)
And, Fun Pub has lately shied away from going below the Deluxe class, so the only available movie toyline molds for them to use are:

ROTF
Deluxe:
Blazemaster/Evac
Dirge/2010 Jetblade
Lockdown/2010 Axor
Brawn/2010 Fallback

Voyager:
Stratosphere (maybe)
Bludgeon/2010 Banzaitron
Mindwipe/2010 Strafe

2010
Deluxe:
Hailstorm/Mindset
Terradive/DOTM Space Case
Tomahawk/DOTM Vortex/Generations GDO Springer

Voyager:
Sea Spray/Deep Dive
Highbrow/Generations GDO Powerdive

DOTM
Deluxe:
Air Raid (maybe)

Voyager:
Skyhammer


Regarding Hoist, I've noted this before:
Sabrblade wrote:Anyone who owns any version of Cybertron Armorhide can do this with this new Hoist figure:

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Image

Photos courtesy of NightViper from Allspark.com


Otherwise, name one Deluxe-or-bigger tow truck that's available for them to use.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:43 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
No love for RtS Lugnut it seems :-( And what about Universe 2008? Silverbolt is still unaccounted for. Other than that... Sabrblade, you're crazier than me in listing the available molds. :lol:

May as well as this guy to my predictions:

- Sparkcrusher/Gutcruncher: Gen. Warpath. Hey, it's used for Strika, why not squeeze another repaint out of it?
Top 5 Priorities:

1) BW Neo X-7 Elphaorpha
2) BW II VS-18 Powerhug vs. Autocrusher
3) Universe 2003 Night Slash Cheetor
4) Arms Micron Terrorcon Bumblebee
5) BW Convobat (red) & Megalligator (purple)

Preparing to move to the US!

- Jelze Bunnycat =:3
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:49 am

Motto: "FOR THE EARTH!!!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:No love for RtS Lugnut it seems :-(
He's not a Movieverse mold, which is all I was listing (notice the lack of Reveal the Shield figures listed besides Fallback, Strafe, and Deep Dive).
If you've read Exodus, wanna read the War For Cybertron comic? PM me.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby GuyIncognito » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:49 am

Mkall wrote:Sorry, but I disagree with you. In your example, they took pretty much everything that was Astrotrain (minus the -train part, but that's a mold restriction) and placed it in a new mold. That's no more a new character than IDW Springer is compared to G1 Springer.

A previous (usually G1) character in a new set of circumstances does not make a new character.



Exactly. Putting the character in a different timeline or a different version of the story and changing some details in the bio are not the same as creating a new character.
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Re: Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Obsidian Revealed

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:18 am

Motto: "FOR THE EARTH!!!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
GuyIncognito wrote:
Mkall wrote:Sorry, but I disagree with you. In your example, they took pretty much everything that was Astrotrain (minus the -train part, but that's a mold restriction) and placed it in a new mold. That's no more a new character than IDW Springer is compared to G1 Springer.

A previous (usually G1) character in a new set of circumstances does not make a new character.



Exactly. Putting the character in a different timeline or a different version of the story and changing some details in the bio are not the same as creating a new character.
Oy vey.

Bio comparison:

G1 and Classics Astrotrain:
"In confusion there is opportunity."

Creating confusion is his specialty. As a Triple Changer, can switch from space shuttle to train to robot almost instantaneously. Thrives on foes' panic and fear. As shuttle, travels at 20,000mph in orbit, up to 50,000mph out of orbit... can launch weapons and satellites. Carries cargo. As a train, top speed is 400mph, range 1700 miles. As robot has great strength, carries powerful ionic displacer rifle.
"The enemy's weakness is his uncertainty."

Astrotrain thrives on panic and fear. Though he is mainly used as a transport vehicle for moving warriors and supplies, he only truly feels at home pounding Autobot warriors into scrap metal. His ionic displacer rifle can scramble Autobot sensors, causing confusion in the enemy ranks, and his huge bulk casts a terrifying shadow across a battlefield. Those Autobots who survive a fight with Astrotrain often need only hear the echoing boom of his engines in the distance to once again quake in fear.


Cybertron Astrotrain:
"The greatest opportunities are borne from adversity."

Constructed to serve as a transport for Megatron and his warriors, Astrotrain became discontent ferrying unappreciative Decepticons across the galaxy. In the chaos that followed the Unicron Battles, Astrotrain struck out on his own as a bounty hunter. Astrotrain convinced the Mini-Con Starcatcher to join him by promising him wealth and riches. The same promise was made to a trip of Mini-Cons who joined him later: Astro-Hook, Astro-Line, and Astro-Sinker. Astrotrain is cruel, but he is also extremely loyal to those under his command. He has an innate ability to inspire loyalty in others. His years of successful commissions have afforded him significant wealth, allowing him to upgrade his systems, greatly enhancing his strength. However, he has never given up his primary weapon, an ionic blaster that disrupts an enemy's internal circuitry.


Even disregarding the circumstantial differences, look at how different the personality of the third one is compared to the rather similar first two. And if the bios aren't enough, the story he appeared in should say plenty more of what he's like compared to his G1 namesake.

They're about as different as Energon Ironhide was from G1 Ironhide, and I'm not talking about visual body differences.
If you've read Exodus, wanna read the War For Cybertron comic? PM me.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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