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Bounti76 wrote:

Seibertron wrote:I just want them to do this set right. Frustrating to see poor or bad decisions being made.

What do you feel are the poor/bad decisions here, the Machine Wars theme, or the way the molds are done? What would you have done differently? Just wondering.

I've had a problem with the "mixed" theme sets such as G2 Redux and Machine Wars.

Here's what I'd do different with how this is presented to help avoid the public relations fiasco that happens each year with the Club and BotCon exclusive reveals ...

1. No more slow drip tease. Announce the location far in advance so people can plan their lives around the event. They actually accomplished this goal this year.

2. Announce the set's theme, reveal the pictures, and post the BotCon brochure at the same time. This gets rid of them announcing the theme far in advance which leads to massive fan speculation that never pans out and turns into a negative thing. Fan's discussing their ideas publicly or privately for months at a time turns into wild fan speculation which gets crushed when the actual products are revealed. This would help keep expectations in check and eliminate a lot of the negativity that resounds from fan's being disappointed.


Here's what I would've done different with the set (albeit not knowing all of the politics involved or the business side of all of this, though I'm sure I come pretty close to hitting the nail on the head about a lot of these decisions coming down to financial reasons).

1. Starscream or Megaplex should have been the star of a "Machine Wars" set. Megaplex should've been it, in my opinion, because he was the only "original" character to come out of a cheaply done KB Toys exclusive repaint/mold reuse set. If you go with Megaplex, he has to have a Megatron head and that mold has to also be used as Megatron in the same series to sell the idea that Mexaplex is a clone of Megatron. The reuse of the head should have helped pay for the costs for the new Megatron and Megaplex head.

(If Starscream was used instead to have a key anchor character in the set, I would have understand that need. As one of the core Transformers characters, Starscream should have a new head prior to other characters and to help sell the connection of it actually being Starscream since MW Starscream was basically just a name reuse and not an accurate depiction of the character.)

2. Strika and Obsidian ... if you want them, fine, but then don't call this Machine Wars. If you want to call this theme Machine Wars, save them for the Collector's Subscription line or something.

If you want to fit them into some master storyline that gives us some history about them, stays true to Beast Wars/Machines and gives us updated versions of them, then I guess we'll have to wait for the BotCon comic. But use the BotCon comic right and give us a reason to believe that these characters fit in with the rest. The fiction for BotCon and the Club has really gone down the tubes the more convoluted the stories have become. Whoever the convention exclusives are should be the primary focus of the comic to help "sell" the idea of these characters.

3. I'm all for Hoist and Hubcap getting updates. Easy BotCon mold reuses to save on costs ... same head. I would've been very happy with a MW colored Movie 2007 TRU exclusive Hoist. It probably would've doubled as a Trailbreaker or a Diaclone figure in some collections. Hoist has to be a tow truck (He's always a tow truck except for that Spychanger version).

4. Skywarp or Hoist should've been last on the list to get new head updates if Megaplex was a must in this year's set. I'm not a big fan of ROTF Dirge mold but whatever. If that's what they had to work with then so be it. Skywarp seems like a no brainer because you get an easy Thundercracker repaint and you could do something cool like a MW clone army set colored as G1 Seeker rainmakers or something alone those lines.


Things that I would like to see with the remaining attendee only exclusives ...

1. Classics Mirage as MW Mirage and MW Prowl. Kind of lame doing that mold again as a BotCon exclusive but that was 6 years ago so it could've worked with nice paint apps.

2. Dreadwing as Megatron with the most convincing Megatron paint apps you've ever seen to really sell that as Megatron. Complete with Megatron "eyebrows" and I'd love to see the G1 toy's chest design's swirlies and other design cues as paint apps to help sell it. They still haven't shown us his weapon. Maybe they went all out and gave us a new weapon instead of a new head. The only thing that could make a figure more of a nod to Megatron than a Megatron head is a cannon on his right arm.

3. Sandstorm and Soundwave have got to make an appearance. The Tomahawk mold would've worked nice for this but Spinister had first dibs on it last year.

My ideas aren't perfect either. I know not everyone would like what I've suggested. Admittedly, that's one of the biggest challenges that the Club has. However, poor decisions about head choices have plagued Fun Pub ever since they started back in 2005. I keep hoping that the pattern will end, but it just seems to continue unfortunately.

Seibertron wrote:Megaplex should've been it, in my opinion, because he was the only "original" character to come out of a cheaply done KB Toys exclusive repaint/mold reuse set.

But Hubcap's bio had him as a different character than G1 Hubcap (which is one of the reasons why some people seem to really like MW Hubcap).

Seibertron wrote:I would've been very happy with a MW colored Movie 2007 TRU exclusive Hoist.

I agree, but all of the 2007-2008 Movie 1 molds are sadly off limits to the Club.

As are the Unicron Trilogy molds, apparently, given what was said about their not using them last year. So no Cybertron Armorhide mold, who's too small anyway since the Club's lately been steering clear of anything smaller than Deluxe class.

Sabrblade wrote:

Seibertron wrote:Megaplex should've been it, in my opinion, because he was the only "original" character to come out of a cheaply done KB Toys exclusive repaint/mold reuse set.

But Hubcap's bio had him as a different character than G1 Hubcap (which is one of the reasons why some people seem to really like MW Hubcap).

There is no Hubcap bio. If FunPub made one years later in the comic, that doesn't count.

Sabrblade wrote:

Seibertron wrote:I would've been very happy with a MW colored Movie 2007 TRU exclusive Hoist.

I agree, but all of the 2007-2008 Movie 1 molds are sadly off limits to the Club.

As are the Unicron Trilogy molds, apparently, given what was said about their not using them last year. So no Cybertron Armorhide mold, who's too small anyway since the Club's lately been steering clear of anything smaller than Deluxe class.

Then you don't do Hoist and Hubcap or you modify the weapon accessory so that it turns a pickup truck into a tow truck.

Don't buy into that "off limits" stuff either. That probably translates into having to pay a fee to Paramount or giving them a percentage of the profits for the product, however that deal works. Would love to know why they can use Dirge but not Hoist since both are made-up vehicles even though Hoist/Longarm was supposed to represent a GM truck.

Seibertron wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Rated X wrote:I agree they should get it right the first time. But seeing as how the Funpub heads arent original to the Hasbro mold anyways, Im suprised you wouldnt support someone righting this wrong. Wasnt the Longarm 2012 custom class Shockwave head and cannon not made by the Hasbro factory ? Werent they 3rd party parts added to the kit by Funpub ? Maybe if we create a buzz on these fansites we can get them to do something like that. 4 months is enough time for any resin artist if the money is right...

My resin accessories are not with my Longarm figure. I just want them to do this set right. Frustrating to see poor or bad decisions being made.

So Im guessing one of these two things...

A. You disapprove of Funpub adding the resin Shockwave head to the kit behind Hasbro's back ?

OR

B. You just prefer the Longarm Jazz head ? (I know you dont like SG purple Autobots)

I don't disapprove of it. They can do whatever they want. Not sure what you mean by not liking SG purple Autobots.

Please don't turn this topic into something it's not. This topic is not here to discuss my views on 3rd party products.

My apoligies if I was getting too off topic. I thought we agreed in the past that SG is just a gimmick to justify and sell lazy repaints, so I assumed you arent much of an SG fan. I always felt the "Longarm" kit was intended to be SG Jazz if you dont use the resin parts. My point was Funpub does have the connections to get custom heads made without going through Hasbro. I wonder what is the possibility of Funpub releasing a new Megaplex head in the future if they get enough "fan rage" ? Hell, Id buy one for 10 bucks if funpub offered them...

Rated X wrote:My apoligies if I was getting too off topic. I thought we agreed in the past that SG is just a gimmick to justify and sell lazy repaints, so I assumed you arent much of an SG fan. I always felt the "Longarm" kit was intended to be SG Jazz if you dont use the resin parts. My point was Funpub does have the connections to get custom heads made without going through Hasbro. I wonder what is the possibility of Funpub releasing a new Megaplex head in the future if they get enough "fan rage" ? Hell, Id buy one for 10 bucks if funpub offered them...

that's just a cop-out solution. Fragile, unpainted, fan-made resin "kits" aren't what I'm looking for either. It's OK for the custom class figure since the class is about making a custom figure, but not for a main figure that's in a box set that I'm paying $350+ for.

As for the Shattered Glass part of your comments, you're right. I don't like Shattered Glass, though I think the 2008 was the last real good set (though they wasted a head on Blurr). I was thrown off by the purple and Autobot specifications.

Mindmaster wrote:Plus, Megaplex would be somewhat interesting, if it wasn't for the laziness on FunPub's part and not doing a new head for him.

This. There go any plans of me getting the Iacon package on this one.

Might get Obsidian on ebay. Have no interest in the others. If Thundercracker gets a mold at the show, I might go out of my way to get the two seekers and pretend they have a mass produced army at their backs (old army building habits there).

A shame. The fiction for this series sounds interesting, but I have only a passing interest in two of the five announced toys, and am not enthused at all. Of course, I felt the same about last year's box set and really liked the at-show souvenir exclusives.

So keep on disappointing, FunPub. I have enough TF toys to pay for this year.

Seibertron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Seibertron wrote:Megaplex should've been it, in my opinion, because he was the only "original" character to come out of a cheaply done KB Toys exclusive repaint/mold reuse set.

But Hubcap's bio had him as a different character than G1 Hubcap (which is one of the reasons why some people seem to really like MW Hubcap).

There is no Hubcap bio. If FunPub made one years later in the comic, that doesn't count.

I mean his original 1997 bio:

Seibertron wrote:Don't buy into that "off limits" stuff either. That probably translates into having to pay a fee to Paramount or giving them a percentage of the profits for the product, however that deal works. Would love to know why they can use Dirge but not Hoist since both are made-up vehicles even though Hoist/Longarm was supposed to represent a GM truck.

Understandable, though here's a breakdown of which Movieverse toys are and aren't up for grabs:

• All Movie 1 molds are off limits
• All on-screen character/Paramount-designed character molds from ROTF, 2010, and DOTM are off limits
• Non-film character/non-Paramount-designed character molds molds from ROTF, 2010, and DOTM are okay (like how Bludgeon and Dirge have been)

So, that leaves the following Movieverse toy molds (Deluxe and up) available to use:

ROTF
Deluxe:
Blazemaster/Evac
Dirge/2010 Jetblade
Lockdown/2010 Axor
Brawn/2010 Fallback

Voyager:
Stratosphere (maybe)
Bludgeon/2010 Banzaitron
Mindwipe/2010 Strafe

2010
Deluxe:
Hailstorm/Mindset
Terradive/DOTM Space Case
Tomahawk/DOTM Vortex/Generations GDO Springer

Voyager:
Sea Spray/Deep Dive
Highbrow/Generations GDO Powerdive

DOTM
Deluxe:
Air Raid (maybe)

Voyager:
Skyhammer

Hope that helps.

Machine Wars Termination will be ignoring certain aspects of the original 1997 bios in favor of new bios that work with the story they have planned.

If Megaplex is no longer an identical stand-in for Megatron and that MWT Hubcap is in fact the oriignal G1 Hubcap and not some creepy new dude, then I'm fine with that.

Bass X0 wrote:Machine Wars Termination will be ignoring certain aspects of the original 1997 bios in favor of new bios that work with the story they have planned.

If Megaplex is no longer an identical stand-in for Megatron and that MWT Hubcap is in fact the oriignal G1 Hubcap and not some creepy new dude, then I'm fine with that.

But Megaplex IS a stand-in for Megatron.

As far as I'm concerned, these molds would've worked better for this set:

Hoist- 07 Movie Longarm/ROTF HOIST!!!!!

Strika- As I said before, Energon Demolishor

Obsidian- Any helicopter.......any!

Skywarp- Amarda or Energon Starscream

Megaplex- If this guy wasn't getting a new head they could've gone with, oh, Idk....POWERIZER MEGATRON!!!!!!!!!

GET IT RIGHT FUNPUB!!!!

Manterax Prime wrote:As far as I'm concerned, these molds would've worked better for this set:

Hoist- 07 Movie Longarm/ROTF HOIST!!!!!

Strika- As I said before, Energon Demolishor



Skywarp- Amarda or Energon Starscream

And none of those were available to use.

Sabrblade wrote:

Manterax Prime wrote:As far as I'm concerned, these molds would've worked better for this set:

Hoist- 07 Movie Longarm/ROTF HOIST!!!!!

Strika- As I said before, Energon Demolishor



Skywarp- Amarda or Energon Starscream

And none of those were available to use.

And how long before you realize none of us are going to buy that excuse?
Seriously, this is the 5th or 6th time you've said this?

Not available? Bullshite! I'm not buying it.

Manterax Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Manterax Prime wrote:As far as I'm concerned, these molds would've worked better for this set:

Hoist- 07 Movie Longarm/ROTF HOIST!!!!!

Strika- As I said before, Energon Demolishor



Skywarp- Amarda or Energon Starscream

And none of those were available to use.

And how long before you realize none of us are going to buy that excuse?
Seriously, this is the 5th or 6th time you've said this?

Not available? Bullshite! I'm not buying it.

I think "not available" really translates to "it would cost too much $$$$$", which is fine, but I'd rather hear that or be given a chance to have a set done right and pay more than a set done half assed and pay around the same that we've been paying.

Seibertron wrote:

Manterax Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Manterax Prime wrote:As far as I'm concerned, these molds would've worked better for this set:

Hoist- 07 Movie Longarm/ROTF HOIST!!!!!

Strika- As I said before, Energon Demolishor



Skywarp- Amarda or Energon Starscream

And none of those were available to use.

And how long before you realize none of us are going to buy that excuse?
Seriously, this is the 5th or 6th time you've said this?

Not available? Bullshite! I'm not buying it.

I think "not available" really translates to "it would cost too much $$$$$", which is fine, but I'd rather hear that or be given a chance to have a set done right and pay more than a set done half assed and pay around the same that we've been paying.

Well, given the amount people are gonna shell out anyway, I'm pretty sure FunPub can afford it.

But Megaplex IS a stand-in for Megatron.

1997 Megaplex was. Termination Megaplex may not be. And given his different appearance, its looking likely that he won't be considered a stand-in for Megatron.

Bass X0 wrote:

But Megaplex IS a stand-in for Megatron.

1997 Megaplex was. Termination Megaplex may not be. And given his different appearance, its looking likely that he won't be considered a stand-in for Megatron.

Slow on the uptake huh? The only reason behind his different appearance is FunPub is too lazy to do him right.

And you obviously didn't read the bio, which say Jhiaxus built Megaplex as a clone of Megatron. He may not be a stand in Megs, but we don't know yet.

So if there are now two Megaplexes (one a Megatron decoy clone and one a Jhiaxus-made clone), and more than one Skywarp, and if the Autobots in this set are their true selves, yet the toys in this set are supposed to go with the existing 1997 toys...

Then WHAT was the confounded point in doing Hoist!?

If they wanted to just do Electro, they shoulda just done Electro, without doing Hoist!

If Hoist is supposed to be G1/MW Hoist, then what good now is the 1997 Hoist toy when they made it so the 1997 Megaplex and Skywarp toys still fit with the new clones of each?

Sabrblade wrote:So if there are no two Megaplexes (one a Megatron decoy clone and one a Jhiaxus-made clone), and more than one Skywarp, and if the Autobots in this set are their true selves, yet the toys in this set are supposed to go with the existing 1997 toys...

Then WHAT was the confounded point in doing Hoist!?

If they wanted to just do Electro, they shoulda just done Electro, without doing Hoist!

If Hoist is supposed to be G1/MW Hoist, then what good now is the 1997 Hoist toy when they made it so the 1997 Megaplex and Skywarp toys still fit with the new clones of each?

Well, it is the Wings universe we're talking about, Machine Wars had no fiction whatsoever, and how often do fiction and toy bios overlap anyway?

Knowing Jhiaxus, he probably made a second batch of clones after the G2 Gobot ones, which resulted in the MW Decepticons, tested them and decided to mass-produce at least the Skywarp one. Who knows?

My point is, if they made it so these new toys could go with the old ones by having Megaplex and Skywarp not be the same guys as the 1997 toys, yet Hoist IS the same guy, then what was the point in their making Hoist if it renders the 1997 Hoist's existence moot?

Sabrblade wrote:My point is, if they made it so these new toys could go with the old ones by having Megaplex and Skywarp not be the same guys as the 1997 toys, yet Hoist IS the same guy, then what was the point in their making Hoist if it renders the 1997 Hoist's existence moot?

I think you're making the mistake of assuming the folks at FunPub actually thought this whole thing through. And this exemplifies why I don't pay attention to the fiction: it's full of holes, contradictions, inconsistencies, and nonsense. It's just a bunch of crap they come up with to sell more toys. Trying to align the toys with the fiction and make sense of it is madness, a fool's errand.

GuyIncognito wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:My point is, if they made it so these new toys could go with the old ones by having Megaplex and Skywarp not be the same guys as the 1997 toys, yet Hoist IS the same guy, then what was the point in their making Hoist if it renders the 1997 Hoist's existence moot?

I think you're making the mistake of assuming the folks at FunPub actually thought this whole thing through. And this exemplifies why I don't pay attention to the fiction: it's full of holes, contradictions, inconsistencies, and nonsense. It's just a bunch of crap they come up with to sell more toys. Trying to align the toys with the fiction and make sense of it is madness, a fool's errand.

Agreed. The best thing to do when doing research and coming up with a far more valid conclusion is always separate the toy fiction from the series fiction. Especially when you have no clue what changes will be made in the end. Because for all we know, any characters that we may want to see will be seen in later sets. We may have an explanation to why a lazily made character looks like that. So yeah... I guess it is best to ignore all toy bios and focus on what the full story dictates.

In my inquiries about Hoist, I wasn't ever talking about the toy bios, guys. All I was talking about were what the Club has said in their Tweets about the identities of the characters in this set, in which they said this new Hoist is the same guy as G1 Hoist, which makes 1997 Hoist a pointless toy.

Sabrblade wrote:In my inquiries about Hoist, I wasn't ever talking about the toy bios, guys. All I was talking about were what the Club has said in their Tweets about the identities of the characters in this set, in which they said this new Hoist is the same guy as G1 Hoist, which makes 1997 Hoist a pointless toy.

Only in terms of lore. In a vintage MW line, MW Hoist is still quite useful.

I was hoping to see optimus prime.. I didn't know the set would only have this many figures either considering I'm still getting into the knowledge of all of this transformers culture. But still... it would of been awesome if they did machine wars prime in his non faceplate glory.

Okay, I know I've been saying over and over again which molds were and weren't available for the Club to use, and that I haven't provided any source for my claims. I'll admit that I was in error about the Unicron Trilogy molds not being available. Turns out the Club does have access to them, but they're just so old and worn out to the point of being no good to use.

I asked M Sipher (A.K.A. Greg Sepelak), who has worked with the Club with these things, about the matter, and here's what he had to say:

M Sipher wrote:I've been part of the group who's worked on the box sets and countless proposals thereof for several years now. I know from first-hand experience trying to put the sets together in the first place which groups are avoided, so we don't waste time pitching stuff that has a microscopic chance of happening.

On-screen movie stuff and a good chunk of non-screen Movie stuff is off-limits thanks to licensing concerns. UT molds are pretty much written off as unusable due to age and overuse (take a look at the Movie Breakaway made from Cybertron Hot Shot. That toy is ROUGH).

Believe me, nobody at FP is particularly keen on having LESS mold options, but that's the reality.


M "And You Can Never Tell When Any Individual Mold Might Suddenly Be Off The Table For Whatever Reason" Sipher

Sabrblade wrote:Okay, I know I've been saying over and over again which molds were and weren't available for the Club to use, and that I haven't provided any source for my claims. I'll admit that I was in error about the Unicron Trilogy molds not being available. Turns out the Club does have access to them, but they're just so old and worn out to the point of being no good to use.

I asked M Sipher (A.K.A. Greg Sepelak), who has worked with the Club with these things, about the matter, and here's what he had to say:

M Sipher wrote:I've been part of the group who's worked on the box sets and countless proposals thereof for several years now. I know from first-hand experience trying to put the sets together in the first place which groups are avoided, so we don't waste time pitching stuff that has a microscopic chance of happening.

On-screen movie stuff and a good chunk of non-screen Movie stuff is off-limits thanks to licensing concerns. UT molds are pretty much written off as unusable due to age and overuse (take a look at the Movie Breakaway made from Cybertron Hot Shot. That toy is ROUGH).

Believe me, nobody at FP is particularly keen on having LESS mold options, but that's the reality.


M "And You Can Never Tell When Any Individual Mold Might Suddenly Be Off The Table For Whatever Reason" Sipher

You realize what this really means, right?

On-screen movie stuff and a good chunk of non-screen Movie stuff is off-limits thanks to licensing concerns