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Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Dead Metal » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:42 am

Motto: "Don't do drugs, beer's cheaper anyway!"
DreadstarCybph wrote:killing gigantic wall of text

OK, lets do this
Concerning using the heads of another toy for a rerelease of a toy:
Nope, never going to happen, well it does sometimes, but those are thrown out into the QC bin, since they shockingly don't pass.
The head is part oft he mold, which means for every Sideswipe made, there is a Sideswipe head, likely even a Red Alert head (and all Red Alert parts, since both where designed at the same time and it's cheaper to make them part of the same mold and just throw out the unnecessary parts than to make a whole new mold for a slight remold). So yes, Takara's factories (since it's their factories that do all the toys, even for Hasbro's TFs) do have extra Tigertrack heads, since you know the Tigertrack head is made out of parts of both Sideswipe and Red Alert heads, those parts are thrown out since they aren't needed. And no, a factory will not just put the wrong head on because they ran out of the right heads, since you know, they have the same amount of Sideswipe heads as they have Sideswipe bodies, and if they put on the wrong head, they would have to throw it away which costs both money and reputation.

Yes, there is news of a second run of Sideswipes, that are out by the end of this year/ beginning of next year. These however are slated to be out soon.
Check out the thread at tfw, notice the line about all mentions of "KO" having been removed, and how it was also revealed by the source that revealed a previous KO? "Weibo is a Chinese blogging tool, so weibo is not meant as the source, but the owner of that particular weibo blog).
Then we have this pre-order here:
http://x2otoys.com/goods.php?id=135
It's listed as KO, but also as manufacturer TakaraTomy, so that might be confusing, however the store has posted this handy little gallery on FaceBook
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 314&type=1
Yes that is a store that sells the KO, but also tells you the difference between the two.

It's days like this that I wish KOToys still existed, since then we would have it directly from the KO insiders.

Oh and this would have been reported by Chinese fans, simply due to the fact that it would have been an official Chinese release of an MP figure by Takara, which is kinda a big deal. Also, a big deal of them are insiders, since they know people who slave away in the factories that make the toys, or are in more "prolific positions", that is called insider information and is one of the nice little things you get to enjoy when you own a large TF fansite, or work for one as a news mod. ;)

Oh and stores can also get burned by KOs like this one here that pretend to be the real deal: (check out the name of the news mod there ;) )
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... -ko/14797/

So yes, this here is a KO, there are legit ones on the way, but this topic here is about the KO, which is confirmed by one of the stores that sells it.

so yes, I do know what the hell I'm talking about and it's not my "opinion", if you want to throw your weight around and want to be sucked up to for your "way of thinking" you can go back to the forum you moderate.

Dead Metal (that's the way it's phrased by the way) out 8)
:michaelbay:
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:20 pm

Dead Metal. You're getting way too personal. Stick to the subject at hand. Disengage and approach the topic objectively without telling the other go back where you came from and all other nasty stuff. Can we agree with that? Am not a moderator at any board. Both of us are both stating what we believe as facts and just sharing our knowledge in the matter to benefit the readers.

Yes. Reputable stores do get burned when they accidentally sell a KO as an original. Nobody denies that Metroplex was Ko'ed long before the encore one was released. So the encore thing with Metroplex is highly feasible had been proven true when it got caught.

You got confirmation from one online store in Malaysia, that sells 3rd party toys that there is a knock off MP12 available in China. fine. I said illegals exist did I not? As in, most likely , manufactured and released by the same factory without permission and knowledge from the license or IP owner. What is so wrong with that statement that got to your nerves? Should we actually think that the contracted factory that is producing mp12 ,tell their buyers of the extra run, unlicensed ones, that we are the same ones producing the real ones too?

Request : Can you please ask your Malaysian source if he can research on MP12, if it had been official release for retail by Hasbro.CN ? He has access to weibo. I don't. That would be valuable info.

You don't believe there is a retail release of MP12 in the Chinese market. If it had, it would had been reported at inland Chinese fan sites because its a big thing. That is a valid point of contention. Hence the above request.

I'm miffed also at the 160 yuan (full item price)at taobao. Its about $25 to $26 USD. Your Malaysian seller/source is at 135RMB, converted roughly at the $42 to $43 USD price range . Its logical that the Malaysian store probably bought a similar 160 yuan ko mp12 from their source, add the shipping cost and the mark up , it fits his retail pricing.

160 yuan pricing fits the pricing of an illegal toy (ko'ed or otherwise). 1/3rd is the standard based on the Ko'ed BT Skids, Ko'ed Hasbro DVD MP Prime, Ko'ed Binaltechs/Alternators and so on.

The site you directed us to also give a description that the KO MP 12 is lighter and feels cheap. I'll just weigh it then.

I'll reveal what I can here once my orders for the ko mp12 arrives.
Last edited by DreadstarCybph on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:25 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Stormrider » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:59 pm

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DreadstarCybph wrote:I reveal what I can here once my orders for the ko mp12 arrives.


I guess that will be the real test and I would be interested in what you find.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Dead Metal » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:02 am

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DreadstarCybph wrote:Dead Metal. You're getting way too personal. Stick to the subject at hand. Disengage and approach the topic objectively without telling the other go back where you came from and all other nasty stuff. Can we agree with that? Am not a moderator at any board. Both of us are both stating what we believe as facts and just sharing our knowledge in the matter to benefit the readers.

Yes. Reputable stores do get burned when they accidentally sell a KO as an original. Nobody denies that Metroplex was Ko'ed long before the encore one was released. So the encore thing with Metroplex is highly feasible had been proven true when it got caught.

You got confirmation from one online store in Malaysia, that sells 3rd party toys that there is a knock off MP12 available in China. fine. I said illegals exist did I not? As in, most likely , manufactured and released by the same factory without permission and knowledge from the license or IP owner. What is so wrong with that statement that got to your nerves? Should we actually think that the contracted factory that is producing mp12 ,tell their buyers of the extra run, unlicensed ones, that we are the same ones producing the real ones too?

Request : Can you please ask your Malaysian source if he can research on MP12, if it had been official release for retail by Hasbro.CN ? He has access to weibo. I don't. That would be valuable info.

You don't believe there is a retail release of MP12 in the Chinese market. If it had, it would had been reported at inland Chinese fan sites because its a big thing. That is a valid point of contention. Hence the above request.

I'm miffed also at the 160 yuan (full item price)at taobao. Its about $25 to $26 USD. Your Malaysian seller/source is at 135RMB, converted roughly at the $42 to $43 USD price range . Its logical that the Malaysian store probably bought a similar 160 yuan ko mp12 from their source, add the shipping cost and the mark up , it fits his retail pricing.

160 yuan pricing fits the pricing of an illegal toy (ko'ed or otherwise). 1/3rd is the standard based on the Ko'ed BT Skids, Ko'ed Hasbro DVD MP Prime, Ko'ed Binaltechs/Alternators and so on.

The site you directed us to also give a description that the KO MP 12 is lighter and feels cheap. I'll just weigh it then.

I'll reveal what I can here once my orders for the ko mp12 arrives.

No, you should stick at the topic at and, you are the one who constantly goes on how this isn't about a KO but an official toy.
The topic was a warning about the KO, then you come in and start arguing that it's not a KO.

So far the only side to have brought up proof of their argument is me and the rest of the experienced members who've seen this so many times before. You just come with "my research" and your misunderstood terms.

In this thread we have 3 pictorial comparisons of the KO and the original, you just have your opinion.

It's time you provided proof, you know like we did, until you do that you're nothing than an annoying clown.

If you didn't want my response to be personal, you shouldn't have started to make it personal - so deal with it.

It's a KO, it's sold as "Chinese Edition", it's of lower quality, it's not based on the actual Sideswipe, the box has the typical errors that all the high quality KOs have, it's been reported by KO insiders.

Doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

And thus I have nothing else to say, since you know there is nothing more that can come from this. :michaelbay:
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:03 am

People just have to review who posted what in the previous pages to decide who makes more sense for themselves in regards to the illegal MP 12.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Arctorro » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:56 am

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DreadstarCybph wrote:People just have to review who posted what in the previous pages to decide who makes more sense for themselves in regards to the illegal MP 12.
No offense, but your the only one not making "sense" in this thread. As Dead Metal said, all you need to do is provide some proof of what you're saying and everything would be fine. No one is going to take your word for it while all evidence is pointing in the opposite direction, so please just show us the proof or accept that people aren't going to believe what you're saying.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby fenrir72 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:14 am

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Arctorro wrote:
DreadstarCybph wrote:People just have to review who posted what in the previous pages to decide who makes more sense for themselves in regards to the illegal MP 12.
No offense, but your the only one not making "sense" in this thread. As Dead Metal said, all you need to do is provide some proof of what you're saying and everything would be fine. No one is going to take your word for it while all evidence is pointing in the opposite direction, so please just show us the proof or accept that people aren't going to believe what you're saying.


I second that. Its getting waaaaaaaay too confusing. DM sez its a KO, the other dude sez its just a running variant/change in the mold. The former has presented several instances to back his statements, though there were occasions in the early 90(as I previously mentioned)of having a "for China only" TF G1 releases. Those G1 figs had a running change where it only sported a Hasbro logo with the Takara blotted out. The quality of those releases ranged from excellent to some looking like the master mold had seen better days. I should know 'cause I own several Headmasters (not the "Jr." Headmasters mind you). The latter, well aside from cellphone references and the occasional "backdoor" imports , well that's it. Now asking for a confirmation from DM then sez.....its getting confusing indeed. :HEADHURTS:


This is going nowhere. The gist of the article if I understand it correctly, is to warn people of the attempts(?) by unscrupulous merchants to hornswaggle buyers with this turd(?). That be good. Unless Tomy's scheduled 2nd pressing is revealed to also possess the same features of this so called "variant"/improvement then we should just considering putting this item at arms length unless owning a KO doesn't bother you. End of story. Peace.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:25 am

So you guys honestly think Takara Tomy doing nothing in China and that Hasbro.CN is the main mover and should be doing this and that? And that, there is no possibility that MP12 is released at regular retail plus Dead Metal info from an online source located inside Malaysia and not in mainland China is satisfactory.

please read the following:

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/english/com ... ochure.pdf - Special emphasis should be considered on the globalization part.

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/ir/financia ... al_all.pdf -

Here's the significant part on page 8:

What is the potential for the
Transformers
?
In addition to the U.S. and European markets, we will
develop the brand further in Asia, primarily focused on
China, with various media franchises including an animated
TV series, online games, video games and applications
based on the brand power that we have created to date.

those nay sayers will now point out that nowhere in the report it says MP12 is coming out in China, as well as other MPs. I already posted that the TakaraTomy TFP AM series stuff is being sold in mainland China. So if that line is being sold there and it didn't even cause a blip in the news radar, the chances of MP stuff is high as well.

AGAIN REPEATING : Not saying, there is no KO (ILLEGAL)MP12. just saying there might be official ones release for mass market as well as KO ones in the chinese market.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Dead Metal » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:28 am

Motto: "Don't do drugs, beer's cheaper anyway!"
DreadstarCybph wrote:So you guys honestly think Takara Tomy doing nothing in China and that Hasbro.CN is the main mover and should be doing this and that? And that, there is no possibility that MP12 is released at regular retail plus Dead Metal info from an online source located inside Malaysia and not in mainland China is satisfactory.

please read the following:

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/english/com ... ochure.pdf - Special emphasis should be considered on the globalization part.

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/ir/financia ... al_all.pdf -

Here's the significant part on page 8:

What is the potential for the
Transformers
?
In addition to the U.S. and European markets, we will
develop the brand further in Asia, primarily focused on
China, with various media franchises including an animated
TV series, online games, video games and applications
based on the brand power that we have created to date.

those nay sayers will now point out that nowhere in the report it says MP12 is coming out in China, as well as other MPs. I already posted that the TakaraTomy TFP AM series stuff is being sold in mainland China. So if that line is being sold there and it didn't even cause a blip in the news radar, the chances of MP stuff is high as well.

AGAIN REPEATING : Not saying, there is no KO MP12. just saying there might be official ones as well as KO ones in the chinese market.

Yes, very amusing indeed, that's all you're doing, amusing me with your desperate attempts of proving your views.
But it's starting to bore me, this goes nowhere and eventually even the funniest joke becomes tedious. So lets do this one final time to let the joke go out with a bang.
:michaelbay:

Looks like you should review posts before posting.
TakaraTomy works together with Hasbro on Transformers, TakTomy has the Japanese business, while Hasbro has basically the rest of the world. That is their development of the brand in China, the same things they've been doing for the past 30 years.
Because if you stopped and actually thought about that little titbit of information, you would realize that it does not say they're going to take the Chinese Market, because if it meant that, it would also mean that they have the US and European market when it comes to Transformers.
And again, the Tak Prime stuff in China, are imports not specially made Chinese Market editions.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE: I live in Germany, over here Panini Comics has the license to sell Marvel Comics comics, they are the only official publisher to make official German edition Marvel Comics comics. However, I buy imported original comics through my comic local comic store, who gets them from a professional import company, that does not make my Superior Spider-Man comics special "German Market Editions by Marvel Comics", it just makes them imports.

There is also the nice little thing about that pdf being from March 2012, about the business year that started in March 2011 and ended in March 2012, the online game is Transformers Universe (which is dead), and the TV show is likely Prime, both of which, Takara has the same kind of involvement in as it has in all other TF markets - they get money from the fact that they own half of the brand.

And yes, that is satisfactory, because that store deals with the KO company directly and has actually had a sample in hand, they also sell official Tak and Hasbro stuff, along with 3rd Party stuff.
Adding to that, the original reveal came from weibo, which you might remember me explaining to you, is a CHINESE blogging system, that can only be accessed and used by CHINESE people, we've gotten 3rd Party and KO reveals from there before.


This is the last reply, or in your special case, lesson you'll get from me. Don't even bother replying before you have actual evidence of the topic not being about a KO but of that "magical Chinese market Sideswipe" you keep going on about. Because as you've noticed, nobody believes or cares about your unfounded inane "way of thinking".

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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:32 pm

Dead Metal wrote:Yes, very amusing indeed, :michaelbay:


said the guy who in an earlier post said that's his last say in the matter. ^_^ lol

Dead Metal wrote:Looks like you should review posts before posting.
TakaraTomy works together with Hasbro on Transformers, TakTomy has the Japanese business, while Hasbro has basically the rest of the world. That is their development of the brand in China, the same things they've been doing for the past 30 years.
Because if you stopped and actually thought about that little titbit of information, you would realize that it does not say they're going to take the Chinese Market, because if it meant that, it would also mean that they have the US and European market when it comes to Transformers.


In this Modern age, To actually think that a giant American company can hold back and limit its Giant Japanese partners in an area's where they want to expand their own influence, shows how much you know about globalization and the potential inside the mainland Chinese market.

Dead Metal wrote:And again, the Tak Prime stuff in China, are imports not specially made Chinese Market editions.


You seem to be harping this over and over again. I never wrote or posted that those items were "specially" made market editions. Your the one who said - if they were, they would have a new box with chinese words on it.

I kept saying, Retail mass market release. And it means "it is not special in anyway". It only means that a certain percentage was set aside in the production that was meant to be released in the Mainland Chinese retail market scene.

Dead Metal wrote:And yes, that is satisfactory, because that store deals with the KO company directly and has actually had a sample in hand, they also sell official Tak and Hasbro stuff, along with 3rd Party stuff.


I checked their website over and over again. The license hasbro, takara tomy stuff are at a minimal. They have the KO already in their hand, fine. They are selling it okay. That means that your Malaysian source is now liable for selling counterfeit goods. And if the item is stolen, can be liable for fencing stolen goods. Hasbro Singapore is just a Bus ride away. They won't get into trouble for selling 3rd party products that have original toy designs but I'm quite sure they'll be in trouble for selling unlicensed goods.


Dead Metal wrote:Adding to that, the original reveal came from weibo, which you might remember me explaining to you, is a CHINESE blogging system, that can only be accessed and used by CHINESE people, we've gotten 3rd Party and KO reveals from there before.


I just learned how to proxy server and made the chinese servers think I'm in china. I can now access weibo, qq and everything else at ease. However - trying to access seibertron, google, yahoo, and the rest of the regular stuff while using that proxy address is hard. The chinese government censorship is really tight.

Dead Metal - there is no denying that you guys got good news on those sites and more importantly relevant news that is important to all collectors. If you have the KO MP 12 on hand and you did the actual report. I'll believe because we are talking first hand accounts from a guy who can write and understand english. Plus you have a rep history already. You can confirm 1st hand the smell, weight and quality.


Things I think about that Death Metal and the rest will also laugh at...

We are talking about a Class A potential knock of MP sideswipe that needs to be scrutinized harder. What if...A certain portion of the TakaraTomy MP 12 sideswipe was indeed set aside for the Chinese market and its just being release recently. What if the KO sideswipe is an intentional release to mix up the entire market. They try to dampen down the demand then they hoard a significant amount of the real stuff to sell it at a higher price point later?

I read the Financial report. and I'm old enough to know that after media blitz is product flooding. Have you seen their target for 2015? $30 billion dollars in sales. That's their internal goal. Not Hasbro's goal, but TakaraTomy . Takara Tomy - will be putting everything they have in a nation where a majority of the billion plus population spoils their 1 and only son.


Dead Metal wrote:This is the last reply, or in your special case, lesson you'll get from me. Don't even bother replying before you have actual evidence of the topic not being about a KO but of that "magical Chinese market Sideswipe" you keep going on about. Because as you've noticed, nobody believes or cares about your unfounded inane "way of thinking".




2 people and you, perhaps more. You guys are not all of fandom. Quit claiming you speak for the rest of the fandom. Go get the so call "ko" like me. Scrutinize it. Both the one with the Hasbro.cn sticker and the cheap one your source is selling at 135 rmb. That would prove your case beyond a shadow of a doubt. Then make a first hand official review. I already said , your viewpoint on why the chinese fan site is not making a fuss about MP12 retail release is a valid point.

telling people to go back where they came from, a clown and inane way of thinking shows how much emotional involve you are. discussion like those ends up usually ugly.

1 last thing. I do follow ups not for the sake of proving my point but to get more info .

Disengage dude. and chill.

Until I get those 2pcs of mp 12 I ordered at Taobao, I'll stop posting rebuttals to your rebuttals Death Metal.


a good day to you too Death Metal.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Stormrider » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:54 pm

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My only question - how does one tell the difference between a high quality KO; an illegally sold rejected figure with quality defects; and an officially made figure made specifically for the Chinese market with lower quality standards?

To me it doesn't matter what they are because they are esentially the same thing - They're all garbage that I am not interested in. I want to know as much as I can about them so I can learn how to identify them.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:28 pm

Japan Import for China Market Release - Pricing About $80 USD

Wholesale box - Same size as Japan release ,
Order no.: is different. Hand written no: POT13-00041
Image
Carton box numbering for inventory filled/ indicated.

Toy Box is same (its slightly longer than the KO)
Box Art - Sideswipe is glossy
- background is flat
Hologram - same as japan release (hologram sticker changes shade on both the ko and orig japan import for china market. It all depends on the light angle)

Top is KO, bottom is Chinese retail release
Image

Image

Image

Instruction Sheet - same as japan release
Character Card - Same as japan release
Inner holding tray - taped on all 4 sides

Figure - Correct head, evil eyes
Headlights - have black trims on the edges
Image
Image


color - Deep red (the one with the coin is original)
Image
Image


paint job - smooth
joints movement - same as original
car logo - clearly seen
smell - same
Weight - same as original


Illegal/ KO MP12 - Pricing - about $40 USD

Wholesale box - Longer than the original.
Order number - same as the Japanese Release.
Carton box number for inventory - empty

Box Art - Sideswipe is glossy
- background is glossy also (somehow its not showing up in the pics)
Hologram - Lambor Insignia is not centered (The whole gold and rainbow is just light angle)
Instruction sheet - same as original
Character Card - not as sharp as original. The lower part of the letter M in the word masterpiece shows evidences it had been scanned
Image
Inner holding tray : consistently among 6 pieces , taped only on 2 sides
Figure - Tiger Track Head, rectangular eyes
color - a little reddish orange
Image

paint job - some splotches, not smooth, easily chips off.
Car logo - the small bump seems to be painted over, then painted or attempt of printing the logo again.
joints movement - same as original ( not loose at all, ko forum chats is unfounded )
Headlights - no black trimming ( ko forum chats is correct)
smell - same ( ko forum chats is unfounded)
Weight - same as original

Conclusion - the KO MP12 is a completely repainted Tiger tracks. I saw yellow paint on a store sample display where I bought mine. This would account for the head, its orange reddish (red + yellow underneath) color and the poor paint job (putting paint on top of a glossy paint is never a good thing). Evidences that this were produced and marketed by another factory - in my book -0%. So I think we'll see a limited amount of this ko in the market once the repainted tigertracks runs out. Am extremely glad the the Japan import China market release is true.
Last edited by DreadstarCybph on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:23 am, edited 18 times in total.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby fenrir72 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:30 am

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DreadstarCybph wrote:@Stormrider - as it should be.

Just got a text message that both chinese market and KO versions Mp12 are now available in 1 of our local store that sells ko and originals. Despite my taobao purchases, Heading out to get them today.


I'll be uploading the pics later.

Japan Import for China Market Release

Wholesale box - Same as Japan release ,
Order no.: is different.
Carton box numbering for inventory indicated.
Toy Box is same (its slightly longer than the KO)
Box Art - Sideswipe is glossy
- background is flat
Hologram - same as japan release
Instruction Sheet - same as japan release
Character Card - Same as japan release
Figure - Correct head, evil eyes
color - Deep red
paint job - smooth
joints movement - same as original
Headlights - have black trims on the edges
smell - same
Weight - same as original


Illegal/ KO MP12

Wholesale box - Longer than the original.
Order number - same as the Japanese Release.
Carton box number for inventory - empty

Box Art - Sideswipe is glossy
- background is glossy also
Hologram - same as japan release (The whole gold and rainbow is just light angle)
Instruction sheet - same as original
Character Card - not as sharp as original. The lower part of the letter M in the word masterpiece shows evidences it had been scanned
Figure - Tiger Track Head, rectangular eyes
color - a little reddish orange
paint job - easily chips off - which reveals yellow paint under it.
joints movement - same as original
Headlights - none (correct news )
smell - same
Weight - same as original

Conclusion - the KO MP12 is a completely repainted Tiger tracks. This would account for the head, its orange reddish (red + yellow underneath) color and the poor paint job. Evidences that this were produced and marketed by another factory - in my book -0%. Am extremely glad the the Japan import China market release is true.

My Big question is why the chinese fan site like actoys is not reporting the release of mp12 in their retail market. Why did they not pick up the item is a repainted tigertracks?



Waitaminute!

Wasn't the initial point of your "constructive" exchange with Dead Metal was your opinion that this may be a "for China only" TomyTakara release? If I understood correctly, DM said this is a KO and you said this(might/could/maybe) is for China only by Tomy. I even acknowledged that back in the early 90s, this did happened for several G1 figures.

So now what is it then? Its confirmed as Dead Metal mentioned and GetRightRobot that this is a KO. After nearly 5 pages of back and forth.............its a KO? :HEADHURTS: What was the point................
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:39 am

The point is, there is a retail release of an official mp12 japan import in the china mainland. This would account for the sudden restocks in many online and hobby stores that have contacts within mainland China. note: Mainland China is not Hong Kong.

The point is, there is also an unlicensed figure of mp 12 out in china as well at the same time. If I'm correct, the ko mp12 will dry up once the extra repainted tigertracks are sold off. Unless ofcourse...they did something with the rerun or g2 sideswipe.

The point is, majority of the collectors outside main land china think - there is no official retail market release of mp12 in mainland China recently, because if there was, the fan sites would have picked it up. Well, if the fans didn't , the stores picked it up obviously.

Our exchange of knowledge with Death Metal did spur me to learn about proxy servers. During the course of the debate, I uncovered that Takara Tomy company profile and company financial stuff. This in turn gave me an understanding that would explain the existence of TakaraTomy stuff coming out from within mainland China. Death Metal and me have different beliefs or idea on how TakaraTomy will go about in expanding their target market in china to expand their yearly sales from $7billion to $30billion world wide.


I know I will be ridiculed for this. But, there seems to be no info or lack of news about either Hasbro or Takara Tomy items being release on the regular retail market in mainland china. It never bothered me until Death Metal raised it up via, "we would have known by now from Chinese fan site." Could it be, 6 months after the Japanese and HK release, Hasbro.Cn or TakaraTomy release their china retail items, so stuffs in the market are kinda old news to the die hard fans (who join forums) (since most of them will have the HK release or the japanese release by then) and the stuff are considered stale and are not news worthy mentioning anymore?
Last edited by DreadstarCybph on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:27 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Stormrider » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:06 am

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The Lamborghini symbol on the hologram stickers appear to be positioned differently. Looks like the KO has it in the center, and the original has it just to the left of the center (unless I have the two figures mixed up). Can anyone confirm if their Original MP Sideswipe has a hologram sticker matching the KO sticker?
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:22 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
DreadstarCybph wrote:I know I will be ridiculed for this. But, there seems to be no info or lack of news about either Hasbro or Takara Tomy items being release on the regular retail market in mainland china. It never bothered me until Death Metal raised it up. Could it be, 6 months after the Japanese and HK release, Hasbro.Cn or TakaraTomy release their china retail items, so stuffs in the market are kinda old news to the die hard fans (who join forums) (since most of them will have the HK release or the japanese release by then) and the stuff are considered stale and are not news worthy mentioning anymore?


I wonder how many visitors from China we actually get. You do have to bear in mind that this site is focused on the US, with Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia and the UK filling out the ranks and used as gauges for release dates.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:57 am

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The hologram sticker thing isn't a very accurate indicator. My Lambor, which is from the very first batch, has the "evil eyes", a well-printed card and black trimming/panel-lines on the headlights, and the box is also matte, with only Lambor appearing glossy.

The logo on the sticker, on the other hand, is perfectly centered.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Stormrider » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:35 pm

Weapon: Atom-Smasher Cannon
I am so confused and losing interest quickly.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:00 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Just throwing a theory around here.

Maybe the Tigertracks figs aren't selling nearly as well as they thought, and TT decided to re-purpose them as Lambor re-releases?

That said, it doesn't really explain why this batch came out so much earlier than the designated December release date.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:45 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:Maybe the Tigertracks figs aren't selling nearly as well as they thought, and TT decided to re-purpose them as Lambor re-releases?


No, no and no. That's the same type of thinking behind "repackaged" figures actually being repackaged unsold figures, while they're actually reissues in different packaging.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:59 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:Maybe the Tigertracks figs aren't selling nearly as well as they thought, and TT decided to re-purpose them as Lambor re-releases?


No, no and no. That's the same type of thinking behind "repackaged" figures actually being repackaged unsold figures, while they're actually reissues in different packaging.


Thing is, someone earlier mentioned that there's yellow paint or plastic underneath the red paint. Lambor is made of black and red plastic with red paint over some of the black areas--there's absolutely no yellow plastic on Lambor.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:51 am

Skywarped_128 - I don't think tigertrack was not selling well. More likely the tiger track run was over produced for the limited no. of pcs. required by TakaraTomy. Let's say - Takara ordered 2,000 pcs and the factory actually produced 3,000 pcs under the noses of the Takara reps at the plant. They present Takara the 2000 pcs, takara reps retrieve the moulding plates, returns to HQ to store them in their vaults. Factory boss barks "okay boys and girls, repaint them yellows as reds" Items gets re painted and shipped to a dummy company that sells the stuff.

And also, the china release mp 12 is no special run. Most likely , it was percentage set aside from the initial run . Why the late release I don't know (could be a trade dispute or the senkaku island dispute) and why there is no report on the well known fan site, I dunno either.

Like I said before - meaning of words usually gets loss in translation especially if you''re not a local to that language of that area and, if you are using an online translator.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:47 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
DreadstarCybph wrote:Skywarped_128 - I don't think tigertrack was not selling well. More likely the tiger track run was over produced for the limited no. of pcs. required by TakaraTomy. Let's say - Takara ordered 2,000 pcs and the factory actually produced 3,000 pcs under the noses of the Takara reps at the plant. They present Takara the 2000 pcs, takara reps retrieve the moulding plates, returns to HQ to store them in their vaults. Factory boss barks "okay boys and girls, repaint them yellows as reds" Items gets re painted and shipped to a dummy company that sells the stuff.


If that really is the case, TakaraTomy could arguably sue the factory for breach of contract through overproduction and not destroying the excess.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby njb902 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:11 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
DreadstarCybph wrote:Skywarped_128 - I don't think tigertrack was not selling well. More likely the tiger track run was over produced for the limited no. of pcs. required by TakaraTomy. Let's say - Takara ordered 2,000 pcs and the factory actually produced 3,000 pcs under the noses of the Takara reps at the plant. They present Takara the 2000 pcs, takara reps retrieve the moulding plates, returns to HQ to store them in their vaults. Factory boss barks "okay boys and girls, repaint them yellows as reds" Items gets re painted and shipped to a dummy company that sells the stuff.


If that really is the case, TakaraTomy could arguably sue the factory for breach of contract through overproduction and not destroying the excess.


You really think a Chinese court would help a Japanese company?
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Arctorro » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:23 am

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njb902 wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
DreadstarCybph wrote:Skywarped_128 - I don't think tigertrack was not selling well. More likely the tiger track run was over produced for the limited no. of pcs. required by TakaraTomy. Let's say - Takara ordered 2,000 pcs and the factory actually produced 3,000 pcs under the noses of the Takara reps at the plant. They present Takara the 2000 pcs, takara reps retrieve the moulding plates, returns to HQ to store them in their vaults. Factory boss barks "okay boys and girls, repaint them yellows as reds" Items gets re painted and shipped to a dummy company that sells the stuff.


If that really is the case, TakaraTomy could arguably sue the factory for breach of contract through overproduction and not destroying the excess.


You really think a Chinese court would help a Japanese company?
Have you seen the cars Chinese companies are producing these days? They are blatant ripoffs of Japanese and European cars and there is nothing that can be done about it because the government is backing the companies :BANG_HEAD:

If these are illegal overproduction releases then there is nothing Takara can do about it :-(
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