Grendel wrote:yeah, after hearing how it ends, i kind of decided to save my money, kind of sounds like an anti-climatic way to end things. and now that stark won, that mean all superheroes in the marvel universe just gonna be cops with powers? meh
started out liking it, i thought the superhero registration storyline made more sense than the old X-men mutant resitration storyline. everyone in the marvel universe is fine with the human torch flying around burninating things, but freak and have protests when Archangel flies around? but then the end just peters out, and it's kind of crappy from the sounds of it
least spiderman isn't the iron spider anymore
Dynamax wrote:But it just seems wrong.
All sides have blood on their hands in all of this but Tony crossed too many lines and made people he's called friends for years into criminals and monsters all for control. He cross many moral boundries (you know when Thor finally shows up he's going to kick Tony's ass for the clone, especially when he finds out Bill Foster's blood is somewhat on his hands too, as his image and power was corruoted by Tony and the others), and he wins with zero reprocussions. There could have been a middle ground found and yet the responsible parties still punished for what they have done...it just seems wrong for Stark to walk away clean. Although who can say he did, after all, a close personal friend did die in all of this. Spoiler:
Harold "Happy" Hogan, one of Stark's oldest friends, fataly injured by Spymaster. Stark had him taken off of life support for humanitary reasons.
We also know what happens when people know heroes identites, people or villains who are pissed off at a certain hero will target them. Fine and dandy for Punisher and Wolverine but now anyone who has loved ones has to either join this program and hope no one does that or retire like Firestar did. It almost saying "Slap on tights only if you have nothing to lose." We'll have more Gwen Stacy like deaths now.
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Dynamax wrote:But it just seems wrong.
All sides have blood on their hands in all of this but Tony crossed too many lines and made people he's called friends for years into criminals and monsters all for control.
Dynamax wrote:Tony helped set this up, why didn't he try to find a way to promote this law without cramming it down the heroes throats. Yes they had time to sort this out but as the spokesman for this did he try to really reach out and address the oppositions concerns?
Nope.
He made backdoor deals, secret weapons and plans to subdue them. Yes there were going to be radicals (and as Burn said if it wasn't Cap it'd be someone else, Cap only stepped up as he is a natural leader and almost everyone looks up to him, the obvious choice). Tony knew the score and he could have used his knowledge to better help this and perhaps bring people over to his side before the law came crashing down. He should have spent more time there than him and Reed making Thor clones and assembling Super Criminal enforcers.
And i am not saying Cap didn't screw up, he made some bad choices too but he was set up to take the fall by Tony. He's now the second most hated man in America (Penance/Speedball still holding the #1 spot), and because of that Tony got to wash his hands to make them look clean while dirting Cap's. Look back on the issues. Tony had his own ends in mind first, and the superhero communities interests second. Cap could have handled it better but the same could be said of Iron Man.
Dynamax wrote:Tony helped set this up, why didn't he try to find a way to promote this law without cramming it down the heroes throats. Yes they had time to sort this out but as the spokesman for this did he try to really reach out and address the oppositions concerns?
Dynamax wrote:The blood of all who died after the Stamford inicident is on his hands first, and the others just got dripped on.
Dynamax wrote:*Ahem*
Dynamax wrote: The blood of all who died after the Stamford inicident is on his hands first, and the others just got dripped on.
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Counterpunch wrote:I've never really made my opinions on the whole thing known, usually because the majority of people (readers) support the anti-registration side.
To begin, I have to condeede, that if the regestration act only targeted a group of people blacks, hispanics, mutants, etc. I would be against it. That would be discriminatory.
I think I was with Tony from the start. Now, I didn't agree with many of the methods the registration side employed, but I think there are two very important aspects that have to be understood before an argument can be made.
1) Use of Force is a power reserved for the Government of the people for use at the people's discretion. Think about it. Guns are the modern "Super-power". Who is permitted to weild a gun with leathal intent? The police and the military. To wield a weapon as a civilian you must be registered and permitted. In what way would super powers be any different? It's not an issue of fear, or restriction of liberty, but a matter of legally protecting everyone.
After all, are we a nation of laws or are we a nation of men?
Want to use your un-godly strength and laser eyes to 'defend' people? Great. Please forwarn everyone else who just thought it was the duty of the police to do so.
2) That legal issue is a real one. You can argue all you want about the moral implications of a law (See Roe v Wade if you have reservations). The fact remains, when the people object to a law, their recourse is to use the law. We had a civil war over this, a real one. Many unjust laws have been overturned. Not once in American history has an unjust law been overturned through violent civil-disrest. Even the most controversial, oppressing, and inherently evil laws of this nation (Racist segregation) were overturned through proper, if not long-going social and legal processes.
That's why, I'm with Iron Man.
They could have helped more. they passed that law so fast no one could sort this out without it resulting in all Hell breaking loose. The law was a good thing, but it was handled piss poorly.Ironhidensh wrote:Dynamax wrote: The blood of all who died after the Stamford inicident is on his hands first, and the others just got dripped on.
No. The blood is on the hands of all the Superheros who felt they were above the law and above the will of the people.
DISCHARGE wrote:Counterpunch wrote:I've never really made my opinions on the whole thing known, usually because the majority of people (readers) support the anti-registration side.
To begin, I have to condeede, that if the regestration act only targeted a group of people blacks, hispanics, mutants, etc. I would be against it. That would be discriminatory.
I think I was with Tony from the start. Now, I didn't agree with many of the methods the registration side employed, but I think there are two very important aspects that have to be understood before an argument can be made.
1) Use of Force is a power reserved for the Government of the people for use at the people's discretion. Think about it. Guns are the modern "Super-power". Who is permitted to weild a gun with leathal intent? The police and the military. To wield a weapon as a civilian you must be registered and permitted. In what way would super powers be any different? It's not an issue of fear, or restriction of liberty, but a matter of legally protecting everyone.
After all, are we a nation of laws or are we a nation of men?
Want to use your un-godly strength and laser eyes to 'defend' people? Great. Please forwarn everyone else who just thought it was the duty of the police to do so.
2) That legal issue is a real one. You can argue all you want about the moral implications of a law (See Roe v Wade if you have reservations). The fact remains, when the people object to a law, their recourse is to use the law. We had a civil war over this, a real one. Many unjust laws have been overturned. Not once in American history has an unjust law been overturned through violent civil-disrest. Even the most controversial, oppressing, and inherently evil laws of this nation (Racist segregation) were overturned through proper, if not long-going social and legal processes.
That's why, I'm with Iron Man.
Hey there buddy, I've not read any of this series. Multi issue crossover are too costly and very time consuming. That aside I gotta tell ya the problems with some of your statements.
1) The statement about wielding a weapon(say gun) and being registered and permitted. Don't know about the east coast but out here in Wisconsin I can drive over to the hunting grounds or private land and brandish that said weapon of mine and nobody knows I have the thing(s). No registration and no permit. Unfortunately we are not allowed to conceal and carry.
2)That speak of on laws never being overturned by civil unrest. I sure as hell would consider both the Revolutionary war and the Civil War pretty good examples. Those wars resulted in overturning quite a few laws.
That behind us. This registration sounds like what led to the Days of Future Past as the Sentinals used a compiled list of mutants to bring them in or exterminate them. If I had powers I would have fought them off too. Gee, how did Nazis round up all the Jews? I'm sure they had lists of names.
Sounds like Cap was fighting for freedom.
Goribus wrote:The moral of the story is that Tony's only a step or 2 away from being a super villain himself. He claims to want to save the world from itself. He's an arrogent self centered man with access to the most advanced technology on the face of the Earth, with flying battle stations, an army of Super powered and normal soldiers at his disposal and is now offically sanctioned by the President to do pretty much whatever the hell he feels like. I'd imagine that sooner or later Tony will either cross over and become a threat himself or crack under the pressure.
DISCHARGE wrote: Hey there buddy, I've not read any of this series. Multi issue crossover are too costly and very time consuming. That aside I gotta tell ya the problems with some of your statements.
1) The statement about wielding a weapon(say gun) and being registered and permitted. Don't know about the east coast but out here in Wisconsin I can drive over to the hunting grounds or private land and brandish that said weapon of mine and nobody knows I have the thing(s). No registration and no permit. Unfortunately we are not allowed to conceal and carry.
2)That speak of on laws never being overturned by civil unrest. I sure as hell would consider both the Revolutionary war and the Civil War pretty good examples. Those wars resulted in overturning quite a few laws.
That behind us. This registration sounds like what led to the Days of Future Past as the Sentinals used a compiled list of mutants to bring them in or exterminate them. If I had powers I would have fought them off too. Gee, how did Nazis round up all the Jews? I'm sure they had lists of names.
Counterpunch wrote:To begin, I have to condede, that if the regestration act only targeted a group of people blacks, hispanics, mutants, etc. I would be against it. That would be discriminatory.
Sounds like Cap was fighting for freedom
Counterpunch wrote: To wield a weapon as a civilian you must be registered and permitted.
NOBODY LOVES WHEELIE wrote:I was conflicted, because I really don't believe Iron Man's side was in the right in all honesty the whole story just makes little sense, see as how the public blames The New Warriors and by extension super heros for the original spark that set things in motion when clearly this was the cause of a super villian.
But I can understand training heros better...
But the logic becomes unstable from there with Super Villians there should be an outcry for them to be contained but there isn't, and worse yet put on the frigg'n payrole!
Burn wrote:So we've picked Stark apart. How about Reed Richards?
I find it hard to believe that someone so smart, could be so damn blind.
The problems caused by the registration act, his wife walking out on him, and he didn't even stop to think he may have been wrong. Not to mention how immoral the clone Thor thing was.
Burn wrote:Speaking of clone Thor again, have a read of Black Panther 25. Storm -vs- Clone Thor at the start of the final battle before Hercules steps in to finish the job.
I've never been a real big fan of Storm (never understood what was so great about her, little bit over-rated) but marrying T'Challa and dedicating herself to Wakanda has done a lot for her character.
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