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Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

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Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby JRFitzpatrick7 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:21 pm

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Who do you want making your combiners? When answering, I'd like you to consider the aesthetics of the products that have been put out by 3rd party companies so far. Please do not bring quality control into the discussion as it is not relevant to this particular question. And for that lets not worry about release date accuracy either.

Of the companies that currently have plans in motion to create modern G1 combiners, are you satisfied? For example, Mastermind Creations is working on Predaking, would you prefer TFClub? Make toys instead?

What scale do you want it in? TFClub or Make Toys? Would you prefer some of the combiners to fit in with Fans Project and Make Toys while others tower over them like Predaking perhaps?

Do you think one company's designs and style would work better on one combiner over another? For example, MMC's Predaking looks very primal, sharp and menacing. would you like to see this aesthetic applied to TFClub's Abominus?

Lets discuss. No need for this to become a war over which devastator is better. Keep it civil.

G1 combiners include but are certainly not limited to:

Bruticus
Defensor
Superion
Piranacon
Computron
Menasor
Abominus
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby NOS » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:28 pm

Personally, I'm hoping FansProject and Maketoys keep doing their thing until I have my list of combiners complete. They just keep upping their game in my eyes and they have yet to leave me lacking when it comes to being impressed.

Mastermind Creations are doing their own vision of things and that's great, but I personally see a few gaps in the shadowed images of their Not-Predaking that concerns me. Plus, I'm a major stickler when it comes to scale and if Not-Predaking is anything like TFC Not-Devastator then it'll be an easy pass for me.

I need something that'll mesh well with my Classics line, not something that will tower over and outshine the rest of my collection with mass amounts of plastic and bulk. It seems that FansProject and Maketoys feel the same way and I cannot wait to see FP Not-Menasor and Maketoys Not-Computron. :KREMZEEK:
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:06 am

I don't mind a few larger "over sized" figures. Especially if it helps with relative scale. Construction vehicles ought to be larger than cars. Planes, well ... Starscream can't be taller than Megatron, so the Aerialbots get a pass on the reletivity scale.

Plus, I have my favorites as well. I like Devestator being huge as he's my favorite combiner. But I don't really need Predaking or Superion or anyone else to be that large. For me, Devy just may be it as far as tat scale goes. I may bite on a large Predaking too since he's always been terribly large. Still, my preferred scale is for them to be about the size of FP-upgraded Bruticus.

I'm not a stickler for style as many here. IMHO the main classics lines are already pretty mish mashed with guys from a post-Cybertron era to guys who fit in more with the live action movie aesthetic to reused molds from the Energon and Armada era (yes, Unicron, I am looking at you!). And we're all 3rd party fans here and they all have their own flair. So just having a nice looking combiner is enough.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby Kibble » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:25 am

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I vote Takara Masterpiece since that's about the only one I trust to do them accurate. None of the other seems to be able to do the damn things right. TFC adds members and paints random **** black every chance they get. MakeToys adds the dumbest looking head I've ever seen on a figure and can't make a consistent set of bots. Some of them are 2 inches taller than the others, some look like they're Bayverse toys, some have green heads while others are black. FP remains to be seen, but they'll be doing 'updated versions' so even if done well, they won't be accurate. MMC, who knows?
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:29 pm

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As long as i can look at the figure and go, "That's ____," that's all I care about.
Not caring about scale since 1984. Just like Hasbro.

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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby rpetras » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:56 pm

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I'm a stickler for scale, but I fully admit that what scale means to me is relative based on a mish mash of toys, shows, and my own general desire.

Using the classics cars as the "base scale", I like to have the limb-bots of a combiner at least that size.
So, for me, the smaller size of some of the 3rd party combiners (or add on kits) are a negative.

Obviously that places me in the Herc camp for Devastator.
I'd prefer to have all my combiners roughly the same size, though Predaking should be the largest IMO.

While I don't mind a little updating, the overall look of the bots, both individually and combined, should remain true to the original characters.

For example:
Updating Silverbolt to be a military jet is OK with me, as long as he retains the stubby wing, long nose styling of the original jet mode.
Updating the stunticons to modern cars is also fine.

Changing the transformation scheme of the Aerialbots to use 6 bots, like Devastator, is not OK. (though this seems to be debunked, at least that's the current rumor)

As far as general look, by company, I kind of like them all in their own ways.

TFC's Herc has a blockiness to him that works for the character, but so far the aerialbots don't seem to be that way, thus keeping the look appropriate for the characters.

MakeToys Giant's combined mode is pretty great too! Even though I disliked a lot of Giant's individual bot modes, and his smaller size, I was tempted to shell out for him even though I have Herc.

I've been impressed so far with MMC's Knight Morphers, so I'm very interested to see what MMC comes up with for a combiner, and FP has a well earned reputation for quality.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby Mkall » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:32 pm

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Right now, I very much like FP's/MakeToy's gestalts in terms of scale and aesthetics. I hope to see them release a mockup or render of their supposedly upcoming Computron soon. I have Hercules and to me, they just don't feel like the Constructicons or G1 Devastator like Giant does. I'm satisfied with FansProject's Superion until someone decides to release a Superion in this scale.

I do hope that MMC's Predaking is larger than most though - they were always one of the largest combiners
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby Rated X » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:24 am

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Personally, I think “aesthetics” is one of the most overused words on this website. It seems to be a word frequently used by collectors who think making a “neo” version of a TF character means more than adding articulation and G1 anime accuracy. I’ve never been a big fan of that theory. I think the whole “neo” concept is mainly used to market the figures to young kids who cant relate to the 1980’s alt modes most older fans love. That’s just my opinion. So if I was to translate the whole “aesthetics” debate, I would say it all boils down to whether the figure is either too neo to be G1 or too G1 to be neo.

With that being said, lets talk combiners…

Obviously, you cant win with scale. If the vehicle modes are in scale, then the robot modes are off scale. Or vice versa. But as far as who seems to be making who, I like the way things are coming together. TFC has done the larger vehicles, namely construction and jet planes. Fansproject is working on the smaller vehicles, namely combat and sports cars. I’m going to leave out Fansproject Superion, because it does not include any actual figures, just parts that upgrade Superion Maximus into something that is better looking but clearly not G1 accurate. It simply represents an earlier time when 3rd parties main focus was to enhance Hasbro figures, not design their own.

It kind of sucks that the combiners will vary in size and the giant robots will never display well going head to head in a battle scene. But I don’t mind because most of my classics display is done by factions.

One thing that I do care about is G1 accuracy for the individual robots, not just the combiner. That’s why Maketoys Giant was a total bust in my opinion. The robot modes were so far off from the G1 cartoon, that the combiner robot mode didn’t even matter to me. TFC executed the individual robot modes a whole lot better and also got Devastator extremely G1 cartoon accurate while still providing an updated look for the “neo” junkies. Maketoys did a more 1980’s look for the construction vehicles which I do like. But they just went too far left field in the individual bots modes, making them look way too “Hasbro-ish”. Only Mixmaster kept his G1 anime appeal. To be fair, I would gladly purchase a yellow version of Giant for my G2 shelf if I could get it for $200 or less.

As far as the combiners yet to come, this is what I would like to see:

Predaking: Freaking huge on a Hercules scale. His arch rival is Sky Lynx. And since Sky Lynx is the only G1 figure I consider worthy of being displayed on my classics shelf, I think his arch rival should be just as massive.

Abominus: Deluxe/Scout size limbs with a voyager size Hun-Grrr. These guys don’t need to be any bigger than a car because that’s about the size they actual beasts would be in mythology compared to humans. Of course Hun-Grrr would be bigger because he is a dragon.

Computron: I’m on the fence with this one, but I wouldn’t get mad if they were big. These vehicles really don’t exist so scale isn’t an issue.

Defensor: These are Earth vehicles so I would like them in scale with Fansproject Stunticons and Combaticons with deluxe/scout size limbs and a voyager class leader. And for the record, I don’t want the Starcats combiner in Defensor colors. I refuse to sugarcoat it by calling him “Neo Defensor”.

Monstructor: Deluxe/scout class figures would be fine. And I don’t care about the pretender shells. That feature would just jack up the price and the shells would end up in my parts box.

Lio Kaiser: I think larger figures would work well. This guy has to be pretty grand size to live up to his name.

You cant please everybody, but for me the figure has to really scream “G1”. 3rd party combiners are too expensive to be putting up with people’s radical visions of what they think is cooler than G1 accuracy. I have no preference as to which company makes what because they have all stepped up to the plate and hit home runs.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby xyl360 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:06 am

This is a really tough question for me to answer. From a general vehicle/bot perspective, I'm all about TFC. Based on what I have (Hercules) and based on what I've seen (Uranus), they win for me hands down. I'll probably get Abominus too and Computron if they do one (and pretty much any other combiner they decide to release).

That being said, I LOVE what I've seen of FP's take on the Stunticons so far. I love the more modern look to the sports cars that they're going with so I can't pass that one up, even if TFC does one (I'd likely end up buying both :P). That being said, if I assumed that the look and feel of FP's Stunticons was going to be anything like Warbot, Steelcore, Broadside or their Insecticons, it would be an easy pass because I'm not a fan of any of those figures, but the Stunticons look to have a style all their own, which I think is awesome and a good move on FP's part since technically, this really is their first true combiner. The other two were just add-ons for Energon combiners (something that troubles me to this day when I see people complain about stuff like Herc not being in scale with them. I always think 'Who the hell cares, it's Energon for crying out loud, Hasbro doesn't even use that scale or style any more so why should other third party companies?!').

I also love MMC's Predaking (or at least what I've seen of it so far), but if I had to strictly base my choices on what figures have been released by a company, I'd have to call it a pass, simply because I'm not a fan at all of the whole Hearts of Steel concept or look.

Additionally, the question of scale is always irrelevant to me, as is having a 'shelf of matching combiners'. I'm not looking to necessarily replicate G1 on large scale with articulation on my shelves. In fact, the only FP Bruticus and FP Superion that I own have both been custom painted by me and I deliberately avoided using the figures that each set was intended for because I wanted something with a more unique/less drab G1 color scheme.

So basically, if I see a third party combiner I like the looks of, I'll buy it, plain and simple. In fact, the only thing that held me back from getting Giant was the fact that I didn't want a second set of Constructicons hanging around. It did look like a decent combiner with pretty cool aesthetics, it just wasn't as cool as big bad Herc (to me anyway, but that's just my tastes/preferences).
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby Banjo-Tron » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:41 am

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I only really care about the 4 original Scramble city combiners and Devastator, because I'm mostly concerned with having a complete Season 1, 2 and movie collection. I wouldn't be averse to getting the other combiners but they are not priority.

Devastator - Maketoys Green Giant
Bruticus - ROTF Bruticus Maximus with Munitioner/Explorer (I still need Munitioner/Explorer though :sad: )
Superion - ROTF Superion Maximus with Aerial appendage addon, shapeways hip filler, Energon Sky Shadow instead of Skydive, Custom Fireflight)
Menasor - I will definately buy the FansProject set
Defensor - Stuck with Titanium Hotspot at the moment (he scales better with the other existing combiner 'leaders') Who will step up to the plate and make this?

My choices are mainly informed by scale. For me, the TFC combiners are just too big. I am happy for Devastator to be bigger than the others. The 'weakest link' is definately Superion, although I am trying to make it a bit more palatable. He will always be short though, which is not helped by his wide-legged stance. I don't care if the combiners are majorly G1-accurate, as long as the number of bots and colour schemes reflect the original.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby rpetras » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:44 am

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Banjo-Tron wrote:Superion - ROTF Superion Maximus with Aerial appendage addon, shapeways hip filler, Energon Sky Shadow instead of Skydive, Custom Fireflight)


For Fireflight, just use an Energon Windrazor.

Then I did Energon Skyshadow for Air Raid.

Skydive was the one I cobbled together from Universe Skydive & Fireflight.
I was able to parts swap with what I had and make him all grey.
If you used the wings from a second E. Skyshadow, it would be even better, but I didn't have one available.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:51 am

rpetras wrote:
Banjo-Tron wrote:Superion - ROTF Superion Maximus with Aerial appendage addon, shapeways hip filler, Energon Sky Shadow instead of Skydive, Custom Fireflight)


For Fireflight, just use an Energon Windrazor.

Then I did Energon Skyshadow for Air Raid.

Skydive was the one I cobbled together from Universe Skydive & Fireflight.
I was able to parts swap with what I had and make him all grey.
If you used the wings from a second E. Skyshadow, it would be even better, but I didn't have one available.

Hm. Maybe I ought to update my Superion to include some guys from the Energon lines. Got a pic of your Superion handy?
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby Banjo-Tron » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:57 am

Motto: "My banjo is everything; defeat is ukelele"
rpetras wrote:
Banjo-Tron wrote:Superion - ROTF Superion Maximus with Aerial appendage addon, shapeways hip filler, Energon Sky Shadow instead of Skydive, Custom Fireflight)


For Fireflight, just use an Energon Windrazor.

Then I did Energon Skyshadow for Air Raid.

Skydive was the one I cobbled together from Universe Skydive & Fireflight.
I was able to parts swap with what I had and make him all grey.
If you used the wings from a second E. Skyshadow, it would be even better, but I didn't have one available.


LOL, I used ROTF Skydive and Fireflight to make my Fireflight :) Seems like we did pretty similar things. My Fireflight is now grey with red - I repainted all the maroon bits off of Fireflight to be red, and painted Skydive's blue wing areas red. Perhaps a photo would be easier, I will upload some over the weekend :)
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby JRFitzpatrick7 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:03 pm

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Banjo-Tron wrote:
rpetras wrote:
Banjo-Tron wrote:*snip* *snip*



For your pics:

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/superion-maximus-classics-superion-t82114.php

Lets try to stay on topic here. :michaelbay:

Rated X..

I guess I'm a little confused by the start of your post, mostly because i wasn't really talking about whether or not animated Blurr could stand well with Classics G1 updates (I'm of the opinion that he can not). And even if I was that is not the point of this discussion. As for my use of the word "aesthetics", I'm almost certain I have used it appropriately here and it very much has everything to do with my topic.

That being said, I agree'd with just about everything else you put in your post 8)

To recap for those that are unsure and those that are trying to come up with the definitive FP Superion combination:

This discussion is about what company you want making your Gestalts. As an example, we have seen what FP can do with animal type transformers(insecticons), they are more than capable of making full stand alone figures as well as addons, do you want them to take a crack at Predaking?

What I mean by aesthetic here is, do you feel that certain companies have displayed a knack for making great figures with a specific look?

For example, TFClub's Superion is looking great, however, he is likely going to be taller than Make Toys' Devastator (I have both as of recently). While i completely understand that these companies will likely only build future Gestalts within the esablished scale of their own earlier releases, I'd be lying if I didn't say that I wished MT was making Superion and TFClub was making.. Predaking or maybe Abominus(now rather than later[Yes i have seen the designs]).

FP has a great thing going with Scout Class limbs and deluxe bodies, I am hoping that is the case for their Menasor.

I'm a little concerned about MMC making Predaking, he is definitely a favorite of mine and i hope they do a great job. Though sometimes I feel their designs are incredibly intricate.

I really like the designs we have seen for TFC's Abominus and I can't wait for images of the combined form.

Computron is Cybertronian so perhaps he would be a good one for MMC to tackle, though I absolutely love MT Giant so i am happy they are making it, though, as Rated X pointed out, i wish the individual robot modes were uniform in size. TFClub did it, why not MT?)

Defensor is a tough one, the individual alt modes don't scale with each other and for this particular Gestalt, i wouldn't mind a cybertronian theme for his individual alt modes. Just to gloss over the scale issues. Though, now that i type that out and thinking back to Make Toys and their problems with making small things larger, maybe they could work out some sort of scale magic for the Motorcycle alt.

All in all, I really like the established FP/MT scale for most of the combiners, Beasts and Brutes would be fine in the larger TFClub scale.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby necr0blivion » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:09 pm

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Finally able to throw my .02 in on this one...

If price wasn't a factor (and, it truly is), I'd want my gestalts the same size as Hercules. Combiners really should TOWER over others. But I concede that I own FP's Superion add-ons and Bruticus set, as well as MakeToys' Giant.

Out of this past summer's 3P orgy (TFCon), my wallet shivered in fear knowing that within a year I would probably be started on 3 more combiner sets. Out of all the news, I was most excited about FP's Stunticons and I have no doubt they'll do a great job. The most shocking news was that MMC would take on the Predacons. I like the HOS designs they've produced, just not sure about an actual combiner. I would prefer it to match Hercules' size. While we're not sure about the company's ability to make some excellent updated versions of classic characters, I'm not too worried if the general aesthetic is a bit different, as the G1 Predacons of course were a big change from previous figures.

Regarding durability, I think TFC finally got it right with their Constructicon set, but wouldn't mind FP or MT products as they are pretty sturdy as well. MMC scares the living daylights out of me when I think about transforming them. I just feel like I'm going to break their products when I handle them compared to others. Perhaps that will also change with time.

The final issue that may need to be brought up is that of integrated appendages. It doesn't matter to me either way if the hands/feets are incorporated into the individual products or not, but I do appreciate that the companies so far have made strides to incorporate these pieces into the overall alt modes instead of just being pieces that sit on the sidelines and just beg to become lost. Saying that, it seems the Preadcons and any other organic alt groups are really going to need appendages to be incorporated into the individual figures.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby DJrasmo » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:14 pm

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I will tackle the issues seperately, since it seems like everyone here is basically stating what they are willing to "compromise" with one set or the other (i.e..."So-and-So may have better G1 accuracy but less posability, etc.)

SCALE:
TFC Herc, hands down. I see alot of people here talking about wanting "proper scale"..but what they really mean is they want "even scaling" among all of their toy figures. Now, when I say "proper scale", I mean proper in accordance with how they appeared in S1/S2/Movie. Gestalts should TOWER over other individual bots, and although I know it is ridiculous to expect a Devy toy that can actually pick up Henkei Prime in a single fist, Herc comes the closest to that of any of them. HP coming up to Herc's waistplate? Epic. Henkei Prime coming up to FP Bruty's shoulders? Not so much. (NOTE: this is NOT a diss on FP, as I realize it was just a set of add-ons to a failed Hasbron't figure..which I own and love, thanks to FP)

Individual bot asthetics:
So far, with only a few 3P with actual models out (I wont trust renderforms or teaser images enough to give the other companies a vote here), I have to go with FP Bruticus. Maketoys bots just seemed to...Emo-ish (for lack of a better term) to me, and I didnt like how the vehicle parts didnt mesh into robot mode very "G1-like" with TFC's Herc bots...Mixmaster's barrel, scavenger's scoop, and Hook's crane arm all included.
I will say, however, that their take on the aerialbots are looking alot better, but like I said I wont trust teasers until I see it in plastic.

Individual alt modes:
Here I have to go with TFC, once again. Their constructicon vehicles are totally awesome...from the posability of scavenger's scoop to Hook's crane arm (i know we've all added our strings, right? :P ). Yeah, Mixmaster's barrel doesnt actually rotate, but I am working on figuring a fix for that with my dremel.
Bruticus' alt modes were kinda lacking...from Swindle being smaller than Jazz (seriously...a hummer versus a porsche?) to the totally weak-sauce helicopter Vortex.

GESTALT modes:
Here I have to go with Maketoys Giant. It is the only one of the 3P'ers that came close standing on it's own. FP Bruty being of course an add-on set to save the worthless effort of Hasbron't, and even Herc, mighty as he was, needed a second "Rage" add-on to avoid being too "neo".
That being said, FP's add-on for Bruty was totally awesome. Accurate head, back cannons, sweet weapons, et al. The actual points of failure here I ascribe completely to Hasbron't, and no fault of FP who put out an awesome product to fix what they could with the set.

Kibble:
This is the one issue with which I see no all-around winner. Herc, as he came, was acceptable, but to make him complete (IMHO, to be as G1 as a true Devy needs to be) you had to get the Rage set, which of course does not incorporate easily with the original bots. Maketoys did a lot better with their "tow-along generator forearms", but there was always the "devy head sticks out" issue. FP, although they tried, bless their hearts, to actually incorporate all the upgrade pieces as pseudo-weapons, didnt totally hit the mark either.
And now, if forum rumors are to be believed, TFC is making some kind of "6th-bot parts former" for Uranus just to incorporate Supe's chest plate, and I wont even mention the horrible Energon-Hands of the original Superion and Bruticus Maximus (well, guess I just did).
I could only shudder to think how one of these companies would handle, say, Menasor...remember how his legs where actually formed out of blocky, rectangular kibble pieces and the cars just kind of "stuck" to the fronts of them? Dunno how or what those things would be used as in part of the actual toy set.

I guess the only thing we can hope for is a continuation of the current trend...for most of the 3P-ers to keep competing with each other by releasing similar sets (aka Herc and Giant), and for us to choose what we like best between them...although this will mean a longer time span before we can get ALL the combiner teams we want if each company were to do different sets.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby NOS » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:06 am

Am I the only one that thinks the gestalt forms were fairly exaggerated in size in the show/movie and that FP/Maketoys is more spot on? I mean, scale was often mucked up in the cartoon to the extent that while each individual limb of a combiner was in gestalt mode if they were to be in robot mode would have towered over Megatron/Optimus by several feet. Yet, when they were actually in robot mode they were several feet shorter or at least equal in height to bots like Scourge/Cyclonus/Springer/Kup/etc.

I understand the idea that giant combiners should be rather... well... giant. Yet, when comparing what we see in the show to the figures we get in hand I think a little bit of realism is called for, as ridiculous as that may sound.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby Banjo-Tron » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:14 am

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NOS wrote:Am I the only one that thinks the gestalt forms were fairly exaggerated in size in the show/movie and that FP/Maketoys is more spot on? I mean, scale was often mucked up in the cartoon to the extent that while each individual limb of a combiner was in gestalt mode if they were to be in robot mode would have towered over Megatron/Optimus by several feet. Yet, when they were actually in robot mode they were several feet shorter or at least equal in height to bots like Scourge/Cyclonus/Springer/Kup/etc.

I understand the idea that giant combiners should be rather... well... giant. Yet, when comparing what we see in the show to the figures we get in hand I think a little bit of realism is called for, as ridiculous as that may sound.

No, you're not the only one. They were laughably large in the cartoon, movie, and the Dreamwave series where Optimus shot Devastator in the face after scaling him like he was some kind of mountain. Maketoys scale seems to be a good compromise between having individual robots who are deluxe-sized with a still-impressive combined mass.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby DJrasmo » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:44 am

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@NOS and Banjo-Tron:

The part you are leaving out is the fact that size-alteration was always a big part of the TF universe where you kind of had to suspend disbelief to let the show "flow"...

From Soundwave's tape minions (Lazerbeak sitting on Braun's shoulder in tape form, but then Braun being able to ride him in bird mode), to Soundwave himself shrinking. Then there was Megatron, who changed from one of the largest 'Cons to a weapon Starscream could wield, and Astrotrain, being rather small when in bot form, but allowing over a dozen 'Cons to ride inside him when he switched to shuttle mode.

So yeah, the individual team bots being kind of small and then growing to be huge in Gestalt mode is kind of a stretch, but actually fits with the rest of the size issues...could it have been done better in the show? Sure, but with so many different examples of size alteration, I guess they figured one or two more would slip beneath notice.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby NOS » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:59 am

DJrasmo wrote:@NOS and Banjo-Tron:

The part you are leaving out is the fact that size-alteration was always a big part of the TF universe where you kind of had to suspend disbelief to let the show "flow"...

From Soundwave's tape minions (Lazerbeak sitting on Braun's shoulder in tape form, but then Braun being able to ride him in bird mode), to Soundwave himself shrinking. Then there was Megatron, who changed from one of the largest 'Cons to a weapon Starscream could wield, and Astrotrain, being rather small when in bot form, but allowing over a dozen 'Cons to ride inside him when he switched to shuttle mode.

So yeah, the individual team bots being kind of small and then growing to be huge in Gestalt mode is kind of a stretch, but actually fits with the rest of the size issues...could it have been done better in the show? Sure, but with so many different examples of size alteration, I guess they figured one or two more would slip beneath notice.


This pretty much backs my point of size issues being wonky/mucked up. -If- the show/comic kept a specific size in mind or had a scale in which to compare to then we wouldn't have such issues. The point I'm trying to make is what we see in the cartoon/comic is done to impress or simply to make the fiction work.

The watcher/reader is naturally going to think a giant, exaggerated gestalt is more badass than one of a scaled, more realistic size. With that being said, I just think the ones we've seen from FP/Maketoys are more appropriate, that's all.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby xyl360 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:46 am

I think with scale considerations, Herc wins hands down. If we were talking about cars/trucks (Stunticons), then they should be smaller than construction vehicles because in real life they ARE smaller than construction vehicles. The same goes for fighter jets. A combiner being made up of military vehicles (Bruticus) is no different. He should be massive compared to, for example, Menasor and the individual bots/vehicles that make up those larger scale combiners should be larger than their Deluxe scale 'Classics' counterparts (assuming Classics is the scale we're talking about here).

Find an image of a Ferrari next to a dump truck, or better yet, a tractor trailor truck next to a dump truck or crane and you'll see what I mean.

I only see 3 types of scale to base decisions on:

  1. G1 cartoon/comics - impossible to match due to bot size/vehicle size/gestalt size inconsistencies (mass shifting, just like Soundwave)
  2. G1 toy - ridiculous and pointless, just put a G1 Constructicon next to G1 Optimus Prime and you'll see what I mean instantly, the toys were never in scale
  3. The real world - if this is what you're looking for, then Constructicons and Aerialbots need to be bigger than Stunticons (even moreso than the existing difference between Herc and FP's combiners/Energon combiners)
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby NOS » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:13 am

xyl360 wrote:
  1. G1 cartoon/comics - impossible to match due to bot size/vehicle size/gestalt size inconsistencies (mass shifting, just like Soundwave)
  2. G1 toy - ridiculous and pointless, just put a G1 Constructicon next to G1 Optimus Prime and you'll see what I mean instantly, the toys were never in scale
  3. The real world - if this is what you're looking for, then Constructicons and Aerialbots need to be bigger than Stunticons (even moreso than the existing difference between Herc and FP's combiners/Energon combiners)


I'm seeking a happy medium between options 1 and 3. To me, -that- is ideal.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby xyl360 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:34 am

NOS wrote:
xyl360 wrote:
  1. G1 cartoon/comics - impossible to match due to bot size/vehicle size/gestalt size inconsistencies (mass shifting, just like Soundwave)
  2. G1 toy - ridiculous and pointless, just put a G1 Constructicon next to G1 Optimus Prime and you'll see what I mean instantly, the toys were never in scale
  3. The real world - if this is what you're looking for, then Constructicons and Aerialbots need to be bigger than Stunticons (even moreso than the existing difference between Herc and FP's combiners/Energon combiners)


I'm seeking a happy medium between options 1 and 3. To me, -that- is ideal.

I'm inclined to agree. If Herc were as big as he should be, I wouldn't have room for him on my shelf :P. If FP's Stunticons were as small as they should be (compared either to Giant or Herc), they'd be smaller than scouts, somewhere closer to the actual G1 toys which I wouldn't like too much.

I'm happy with Herc and Superion (and Bruticus, come on TFC ;)) being larger than the other combiners because logically, they should be due to the vehicles they're composed of.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:44 am

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And this is why scale, barring one or two exceptions, doesn't matter much to me.
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Re: Combiners, a question of aesthetics.

Postby Banjo-Tron » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:23 pm

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Ultimately, I would like for my various combiners to be about the same size, and for their individual component bots to be around deluxe size. I like them to look like 'rank and file' robots individually, and I just find the individual TFC bots too large. Which means it has to be the FP/Maketoys approach for me. Having said that, TFC's Superion looks hard to resist so far, and FP Superion is maddeningly too small compared to Bruticus/Devastator. What to do eh.
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