KenjaminLinus wrote:I don't think anyone is claiming that 3rd parties are the "heroic protectors of transformers from our childhood". THAT is ******.
Exactly. Thank you!
KenjaminLinus wrote:They absolutely care to give us the toys we dream of, because those ARE the toys we will pay for. People wanted a classics Devastator done right, and they are willing to pay $600 for him!
Yep. See, we're willing to buy Hasbro product, they refuse to give it to us. This is where the 3rd parties come in. Shouldn't Hasbro be making these products? Yep. They just flat out refuse. I'm tired of it, the 3rd party companies are tired of it, and so should ya'll be. (And yes, the 3rd parties are in it to make money, no doubt, but most of these companies come from fans who've had enough of "No". Plain and simple.)
KenjaminLinus wrote:Anyone who is bringing morality into the 3rd party argument is delusional. It is purely business. Maybe it's morally questionable, but I hold no loyalty to any company, nor will I ever. They are after one thing, and I am after one thing. Plain and simple.
Exactly. Well, for the most part they're after one thing, which is money, but groups like TFC and FansProject really do have the fans best interests at heart. iGear and other companies are just opportunists who just so happen to have what we want and we buy. Oh, do we buy.
GetRightRobot wrote:I wasn't trying to single anyone out. It's like this; I spend A LOT of money on 3rd party stuff (Herc is awesome), I'm just quiet about it. I think a dose of humble pie is over due. Hasbro markets to a different demographic than 3rd party's do and well, lets face it, it's their product. I just get sick of the Hasbro bashing. I want my after-market pieces like most collectors, but I want it to be a little less... in your face Hasbro.
Although what I said may not apply to you, there are plenty of people who view 3rd party companies as the Caped Crusader AND Knight in Shining Army.... and the Peace Corps and Jesus... ok, maybe not that severe, but you get my drift right?
Being a Christian, I'm not exactly sitting easy with the Jesus/savior lines. Just FYI. I don't believe the 3rd parties are anything but a fan run business. Bid'ness. While I do buy their product and fully appreciate their incredible work, I don't believe they've done anything for me but answer our cries for the items that just don't exist, or exist anymore. They're doing for us what Hasbro refuses to do. To me, that makes them awesome. It also makes them a target and it has to make them money to be worth it and to fund future productions. I see nothing wrong with them making money off of our wishes and desires.
I'm not sick of the Hasbro bashing. People seem to forget that Hasbro constantly reminds us that WE don't matter. OUR money doesn't matter. If they lost us as customers, they'd still make their money without our 10%. They didn't give us conventions and exclusives. FANS did. Hasbro was more than happy to let us twist in the wind, twiddling our thumbs.
After seeing what the fans are capable of, and "Hey! It's extra money!", they milked the public and us out of money using the movies. Same for the shows. They get a tidy sum from Savage and Co. on the conventions, plus other official cons around the world. See, Hasbro has no problem showing up and peddling their wares to us and collecting our money. They just don't need it and they've let us know this, time and again. That doesn't bother you? At all? At least the fan run 3rd parties are up front about it. "We'll give you what you want, sure. But we need money to do it. Are you willing to buy? You are? Okay. Here it comes."
Considering Hasbro comes to us and tells us they're going to take our money, even though they don't need it, this canceling figures crap is an even bigger stab to the back, ya know?
So yeah, I'm going to bash Hasbro. I'm also not going to trust a word they say, because you never know when they'll kill a figure or entire line, just when you want it most.
That doesn't make the 3rd parties a hero, that just makes them honest. More honest than Hasbro.
And, like I said, any idiot who asks about this issue, is making problems for us. They're going to open their mouths one too many times and ruin it for all of us. That part about being in your face about it? I fully agree. It shows me just how STUPID some of the people in the fandom really are. It's amazing to me how low a person's IQ can really be. It's either that they're tree stump stupid, or completely ignorant to social graces and common sense. Or they're going for the gusto and it's a mix of both. I'm going to go with "it's a mix of both"
KenjaminLinus wrote:It's like you said, they just set cross hairs on the collector's market, so their job is easier as far as pleasing their intended demographic.
A very fair point, however... Doesn't it bother anyone else but me that Hasbro has no problem telling us that our money isn't necessary, but they'll take it anyway? Doesn't it bother you that their only consistent and faithful fans have been US? I mean, some, like me, have been here since '84. Coming close to THIRTY years of fan love. I get that kids outnumber us and they have to go where the money is, but don't take our money and then barely give us something to show for it. Some years, sure they did better than others. Other years? Eh, not so much.
Fans wanted DOTM Soundwave. Collectors wanted to complete their DOTM Wreckers set. Some, like me, wanted their DOTM Que figure. Hasbro even went so far as to produce Leadfoot with Target logos (among others) on it. There's even a Hasbro HK Soundwave. You know what the rest of us got? "Mmm. Sorry. No dice. Moving on!"
The molds have been created! The toys have a buying audience! They didn't even try and offer them to us through Hasbro Toy Shop, or make them exclusive to TRU. We didn't even get a fair chance at First Edition.
Before someone says "Don't you own the figures? What are you complaining about?" Full disclosure: Yes, I do. I was fortunate enough to find a way to import them. Key word: Fortunate. I count my blessings and I'm grateful for them. However, there are many kids and collectors who CAN'T do what I (and a few others) were capable of doing. That's just not fair. It shouldn't be some, it should be ALL.
There are kids on this site, right now. I don't care if they're 13 or 16 or whatever. Until they're 18, they're juveniles. Kids. Which is Hasbro's target audience. Why do they have to suffer without First Editions and DOTM finishers? And I don't think there's a good or reasonable answer for that. Well, not one other than Hasbro's being run by idiotic planning right now.
Everyone should be able to enjoy these figures. Hasbro shouldn't offer them if they're going to take them from us at the last minute. Tease the fans? Eh, it sucks, but okay. Tease the kids? That's just wrong. Plain and simple.
It has been a tough year for "Official" fans. Some serious shortcomings. But there is promise on the horizon. Who knows, we might finally get a Bumble Bee.
Kid nothing. We will get more Bumblebees than we know what to do with. I mean, it's ridiculous. And outside of a few good PRID figures, the only promise on the horizon is TakaraTomy (to a small degree) and the 3rd parties.
Rated X wrote:Where did all this "moral" crap come from ???
It's always been an issue for some. (Probably more than they admit.)
Rated X wrote:Im the one who started the 3rd party discussion on this thread and I never mentioned any such thing. All I wanted to clarify is that 3rd parties are making Transformers right these days. And yeah, for a price. I thought I made it clear that todays Hasbro is not the same people from 1984-1988. They might hold the paperwork and copyrights, but they are not the creators. Therefore I dont respect them in the same fashion as I do the originators of the characters. These characters are 25 years old. Dont confuse creators with investors.
Oh, but they DO matter. BECAUSE they hold the paperwork and copyrights. You just don't get it. Whether it was a designer or a team, ultimately, they're paid for their ideas. Hasbro either buys them from them, or hires them to come up with ideas for them. In the end, Hasbro owns 'em. Lock, stock and barrel.
I don't respect their business practices or their disrespect of us, but they have all rights to these, no ifs, ands or buts. Creators? Investors? Who cares? Simple fact is, these are all owned by Hasbro. 3rd parties are violating laws and copyrights, plain and simple. (Well, let me rephrase. Not all 3rd parties are. Some are legal and just skirt the line without crossing it.)
Rated X wrote:This whole "intellectual property" arguement is a load of horse s**t. If the artist who created Rodimus Prime in 1986 isnt complaining about Protector, then who really has a right to complain ??? Did Hercules ruin any chances of Hasbro ever making profit from a G1 Devastator ??? F**K YEAH !!! But Hasbro has been making classics themed figures since 2006. So for six years Hasbro has dropped the ball and people get mad when the other team picks it up. You guys should be praising TCC for doing what Hasbro couldnt do.
1.) Hercules did not hurt Hasbro's profits. If they build a Devastator, we will come. The fans flock to combiners. Whether they're crappy, mediocre or excellent, we'll be there. Hasbro refuses to give us Devastator. They could, they just won't. If their profits are somehow hurt by Hercules, it's their own fault.
2.) Praising? Eh. We appreciate and recognize their work with every dollar we spend. That, plus a "Wow, you guys are awesome, thanks!" note every once in a while should suffice. I don't think the 3rd parties want us heaping praise anyway. It draws more attention. If more attention is drawn, it can cause them problems. Which them comes to be our problems because we can't get our 3rd party goodness if Hasbro gets too mad about it.
And stoking the fire with Hasbro over 3rd parties is a BAD, BAD idea. It's only going to make things worse for us. Be angry with Hasbro over what crap they pull, what stuff they don't give us, and their tactics. Be vocal about it, but leave the 3rd parties out of it. There's so much to complain about Hasbro right now, on their own merits. Don't ruin it for the rest of us because a person can't keep their mouths in check.
NOTE: Realize that I am not a perfect Christian, nor do I profess to be. I apologize if anyone's ever offended by me, I'm not perfect. Don't hold my posts and opinions against other Christians.