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Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby Bowspearer » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:10 am

TransformersEmporium wrote:OMG.. lol
No, I didn't feel like starting a new conversation with someone at 11 at night when I had no interest in talking with them. Least of all you. I didnt trash talk anyone, except for maybe the australian who had gone off his meds and was attacking people.
I don't need to defend myself from anyone or for anything, much less a wanna be know it all like yourself.
And the real fans, yes, since obviously your not. You just troll through here looking for people to harrass, unlike those of us who are looking to have a positive experience. But that wont happen with people like you hanging around.
And BOTCON is pushing ethics about the same as you are a real Transformer fan and not some post trolling know it all who enjoys attacking people.
They are doing it out of greed and selfish pride and nothing else.
Now unless you have something intelligent to say to me on a topic that hasnt been beaten to death, I suggest you disappear cause Ill just report you for harrasssment, Im not in the mood. Your not worth any agravation..


Actually considering some of your "gems", I've been more than civil with you. Also let's look at this so called "trail of harassment". You defended illegal activity on your part as an online seller of KOs and 3rd party products (and one which makes no effort to point out that the vintage G1 toys they sell are complete knock-offs too I might add) in the thread about the Botcon bans and when you were called out on it, you resorted to bigoted and nasty low blows.

Then after a time you linked to this thread, which I naturally checked out given the controversial statement by Dairycon that was being reported on.

When I went to post, you'd just made a ludicrous post claiming that Hasbro and FP were somehow being unfair for not allowing dealers to sell products which stole their IPs (banning them and confiscating their illegal wares if they tried it on at the con after signing an agreement stating they wouldn't), which incidentally is a move that is essentially one great big up yours to both companies to their faces. The minor miracle here is that FP and Hasbro didn't put their foot down with Botcon sooner. Naturally I commented on how utterly fallacious your response to this was.

Yet your response to that elephant in the room has been to resort to character attacks and name calling - something you have consistently done when you do not have a valid response to your posts. Feel free to report me if you feel that's harassment. One look at this thread and the thread where you linked me to here from, will soon make it clear that the person who is resorting to character attacks and trolling behaviour here is yourself.

Anyway back on topic. Dairycon are playing a risky game, as it depends on just how much of a laughing mood Hasbro are in. Perhaps what Dairycon is doing is satire to them, but if Hasbro have had enough; attacking both Hasbro and Botcon in such a move could completely alienate Hasbro. Satire is always about sending a message, and when Hasbro are sending a message that their IPs are not something they will let anyone out there make money off of; Dairycon essentially giving Hasbro the finger could create a powerful enemy for them if this Botcon ban is just the start of things. The fact that confiscations at Botcon might lead to confiscations being handed over to police, suggests that it's highly likely that it is.

Also when people try and differentiate 3rd Party stuff from KOs by claiming that there's a scale difference; they're right that there is a scale difference, but what they fail to recognise is that by the time you're at 3rd party unlicensed products, you're already at the point in terms of scale where you've crossed over the line into IP theft - something which could have been avoided if the items were either licensed or authorised.

Slayershoop wrote:1. KO's and 3rd party products are two entirely different things, you may find your opinion otherwise, but for the most part, it's true. The goal of most 3rd parties is to fill the gap for collectors that Hasbro and Takara Tomy will not. That has always been the goal and will always be the goal. KO companies's goal is to cheaply and illegally copy an existing design from a copyright holder. This is THE fundamental difference. So let's cover specifics


I don't think anyone is arguing that there are clearly different intentions here between 3rd parties and KOs. The problem is that even if you factor that in, you're still smack bang in the middle of unauthorised and unlicensed products territory.

Slayershoop wrote:2. 3rd party figures are not IP holder designs: This is clearly the case, now there are some exceptions to this statement, mostly pertaining to iGear, namely, Faith Leader and the MP Seekers. However, let's look at this on a whole: City Commander, an armor add-on for Ultra Magnus, making him look vaguely like his G1 incarnation, now, not speaking for Hasbro here, but it was a pretty good bet that Hasbro would never release something like that, why? It's not really cost effective for them. TFC Hercules, A six figure combining team, made out of voyager sized robots. Recently, the closest we have seen to this is five deluxes or a bunch of duplo like limbs. Once again, targeting the core market for them, children. These designs are created and manufactured by independent companies, Hasbro can lay no claim whatsoever to the designs, they are not named after Hasbro products, nor do they contain any Hasbro product within.


The problem comes though in terms of the concept and likeness issues. Noone would suggest that City Commander is a straight KO for example, but the design clearly makes an unauthorised use of the Ultra Magnus robot mode likeness. Considering what it's designed to interact with, you can't argue coincidence on it either. It's the fact that it's unlicensed and unauthorised which is the problem here- not that someone is trying to fill a gap in the market

Slayershoop wrote:3. Hasbro is for kids, 3rd party is for collectors: Hasbro has stated multiple times that their market is for children, that the vast majority of their profit is from children. 3rd party companies are aimed at adult collectors, supposedly a small portion of the overall market for Transformers. We have also seen recently, that despite the current economic status, they do continually post a profit each fiscal quarter. So if we are to interpret this information, 3rd party has not made Hasbro fall into the red, now, there is no way of knowing if it has cut into profits, if any at all, due to how many variables there are. However, if we, as collectors, are such a small margin, it should not be affecting Hasbro's bottom line.


This point fails on 2 counts. To begin with, if Hasbro were unconcerned with collectors, then we wouldn't have had Alternators or reissues, and we wouldn't have had Masterpiece figures either. The fact that they are making those offerings at retail though means that clearly they do consider adult collectors as their market as well as children. Secondly there is the fallacy of the "victimless crime", like the ethics go right out the window because of how large Hasbro is. The reality is that every 3rd part unlicensed product sold is depriving Hasbro of revenue they are entitled to as they own the IPs in these cases.

Slayershoop wrote:4. KO's are wrong, but 3rd parties are a grey area: Let's face it, KO's are wrong, and I give Hasbro every right to go after them, in fact, I encourage it. 3rd parties...this is a bit hard to say. Original designs only vaguely reminiscent of something else are always a grey area. It doesn't help that they are not using copyrighted names, art, or anything really. Yes, they are based off of something, but the same can be argued for just about anything else: Transformers drew from Diaclone, Micromachines, etc. (owned by Hasbro I know), but, they also were pretty clearly influenced by Gundam, Macross and the like. In my opinion, Hasbro pursuing 3rd parties, and winning the lawsuits, may set a very dangerous precedent where everyone can sue anyone for being based off of or looking like something else. For instance, Guilty Crowne, Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Tiger and Bunny to an Extent, Gundam, Full Metal Panic!, Marcross and many others all have designs that can be considered similar to each other, and an uneducated judge or jury may not be able to tell the difference. All hold individual IP, if Hasbro won, all would have grounds, if they decided to capitalize on it.


Are they that grey though? Granted they're nowhere near as bad as KOs which are completely irredeemable, but you're still talking about IP theft being the basis for all their designs. In a way it coming to blows would actually be a positive thing, as it might force things to actually come to a head in a positive way. Hasbro's statement about refusing to work with 3rd party company sounds more like the first salvo in a war and setting up a position of strength to potentially negotiate from. Where you could wind up from there is with reasonbly strict licensing deals going on where things have to pass Hasbro QC before they can be offered. Once you reach a point of licensing deals being struck of course, the whole thing changes and 3rd party stuff becomes completely legit. That's your sticking point.

Slayershoop wrote:It's not as if Hasbro isn't impressed either, it has been shown repeatedly at TFCon (I don't know about Botcon personally) that both sides have mutual respect. Hasbro reps were extremely impressed with 3rd parties, and for the most part, Hasbro is held in an almost reverence. So there seems, for the most part, to be no bad blood.

So I guess it boils down to: KO, go after it by all means. 3rd parties, tread carefully on both sides.


The problem is the slippery slope of all this. People have said "if it just stopped with add-on kits" but that was never going to be the case, because there is always a slippery slope. Taking a step back, it's not hard to see how this went from add-ons, to 3rd party figures, to high grade forgeries, and semi-forgeries in terms of the likes of the 3rd party Seaspray and Huffer et al. The situation has gotten to a point where I think Hasbro feels the need to kill it all off so that they can then look at managing it. Once the dust settles, I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Maketoys had licensing deals and everything they produced became legit.
Last edited by Bowspearer on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:55 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby TransformersEmporium » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:23 am

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So your not only a troll, but your a stalker also. I warned you. And for the record my website in no uncertain terms neither claims them to be vintage, as a matter of fact it clearly states they are 3rd party repro's.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby Bowspearer » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:39 am

TransformersEmporium wrote:So your not only a troll, but your a stalker also. I warned you. And for the record my website in no uncertain terms neither claims them to be vintage, as a matter of fact it clearly states they are 3rd party repro's.


It's not stalking if you post link to a controversial piece of news and people check it out and happen to comment on it where you are. Also if it was stalking, I'd be leaving you PMs and posting every single thread you post in and that simply isn't the case. Finally, while you do state there are reproductions, you do do so in small print on your front page and never specify exactly what is a reproduction out of your inventory- which is where the problem lies. The legal term is "full disclosure".

Now that that's out of the way, perhaps we can all get back to the topic at hand.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby freetouch » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:22 am

This is all pretty dumb... that being said, I like transforming robots. be it, KO, 3rd party, Go-bot, or transformer. Without KO's I would never have a Dezauras or a Star Saber. If Takbro would reissue them, I would buy them, since they have not, I'm not paying ass prices on ebay for them, but I will pay $40 a piece for them. IF botcon doesnt want to sell that stuff, that's cool, although I guess that also means you can't sell go-bots at botcon either, because those would also be a "third party" to hasbro. Which is lame.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby Bowspearer » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:37 am

freetouch wrote:This is all pretty dumb... that being said, I like transforming robots. be it, KO, 3rd party, Go-bot, or transformer. Without KO's I would never have a Dezauras or a Star Saber. If Takbro would reissue them, I would buy them, since they have not, I'm not paying ass prices on ebay for them, but I will pay $40 a piece for them. IF botcon doesnt want to sell that stuff, that's cool, although I guess that also means you can't sell go-bots at botcon either, because those would also be a "third party" to hasbro. Which is lame.


You've completely missed the point here though when you try and fallaciously bring go-bots into this. The issue isn't other brands of toys but 3rd party companies making unlicensed versions of Transformer characters and thus stealing Hasbro's IPs- it's the fact that they're unlicensed that is the stacking point.

As for KOs, they're completely irredeemable and have completely ruined the hobby for vintage collectors. It used to be you'd come across a vintage piece on eBay and love the thrill of buying it. Now when you come across one, you spend ages pouring over photos trying to work out if it's the real deal and even then you're worried about whether you've missed them- all because of the scammers and bootleggers out there screwing over Hasbro and the fan community to make a quick buck and I can't wait to see Hasbro sending a strong message against selling and making them. Even if they can't get the bootleggers in China, they can certainly get ev ery single person outside of China trying to sell them.

Personally I can't wait- maybe then those of us collecting Vintage G1 can actually start to enjoy our hobby without worrying about being scammed every single time we find what we think might be a nice vintage piece on eBay.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby Court Jester » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:01 am

Wow.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby freetouch » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:06 am

Bowspearer wrote:You've completely missed the point here though when you try and fallaciously bring go-bots into this. The issue isn't other brands of toys but 3rd party companies making unlicensed versions of Transformer characters and thus stealing Hasbro's IPs- it's the fact that they're unlicensed that is the stacking point.

As for KOs, they're completely irredeemable and have completely ruined the hobby for vintage collectors. It used to be you'd come across a vintage piece on eBay and love the thrill of buying it. Now when you come across one, you spend ages pouring over photos trying to work out if it's the real deal and even then you're worried about whether you've missed them- all because of the scammers and bootleggers out there screwing over Hasbro and the fan community to make a quick buck and I can't wait to see Hasbro sending a strong message against selling and making them. Even if they can't get the bootleggers in China, they can certainly get ev ery single person outside of China trying to sell them.

Personally I can't wait- maybe then those of us collecting Vintage G1 can actually start to enjoy our hobby without worrying about being scammed every single time we find what we think might be a nice vintage piece on eBay.


Still a 3rd party, Go-bots are now illegal to sell. (if you haven't guessed by now, I dont care either way, so deal with it).

NOOOOOOPE KO's haven't ruined anything. Look, just because YOU specifically are having a harder time with your toy's doesn't mean everyone else is. you do realize on ebay, you can dispute KO's. If a person sells you one, and says its an original, and it turns out to be a fake, you get you money back. It's not rocket science. Look... if hasbro would reissue g1 things more often, like they used to, more people would by them. Bootleggers are not screwing hasbro out of any money, because hasbro isnt making the toys. Fun fact, all those vintage things you buy from dealers, were already sold by hasbro, so they arent making another dime on anything. Unless its being released right now, as in PRIME toys, Hasbro already made their money, and aren't going to loose on KO's because they don't have a product out to compete with it.

Cry some more about your hobby. If you aren't having fun anymore, its not the hobby, it you. I collect Transforming robots, I have a large collection starting from U.S. G1 all the way up to Prime, with everything in between. Never once have I thought KO's or 3rd party were ruining my fun, the only people ruining my fun are Hasbro and Takara for not releasing more reissues, or better products like headmasters, PowerCore Combiners with transforming limbs, or Masterpiece pieces that are missing entire trailers, letting ebay scalpers make $1000 on a toy that could be easily reproduced for $80, and their terrible blanket support statement of a company that let hackers access everyone's credit card numbers because they used **** security.

Again, to summarize, I totally just made your day, because you didn't know you could dispute (and pretty much win every time because ebay protects buyers like a celebrity) any sales on ebay,and get our money back.

We are all fans, you are angry, and I get that, but you aren't understanding the whole picture. Instead of going after, C&D and sueing companies making toys based on their ip's that hastak has said they won't do, they should be combating them by producing a product that is better than, or at least tries to compete with, said items. Sure, a company can cry and hold their breath like a child until they pass out, but that won't make them any more money. You make money by making something people want. Do you think McDonalds bitches when I have a back yard cookout with my family and I make cheeseburgers that are better? No, they make more cheeseburgers. Hasbro needs to make more cheeseburgers.

I don't believe I just wrote this much about a toy. Have a good day.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby TransformersEmporium » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:06 am

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OMG, i was right, i figured you were either just a real jerk who trolls looking for an arguement which is why i didnt bother replying to your last comment, but now your infinite wisdom and self policing is just annoying. We're all sorry you got screwed because you were foolish enough to think the $200 Prime you bought was authentic, but that happens everywhere and with almost all prodeucts. You should have researched better,It only takes a minute. Im always showing people how to tell the difference or pointing them to(http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/17) which shows in detail and its funny when a small troll like yourself accuses me of underhanded tactics when I am well known and very respected in the TF comunity.
No one is stopping you from enjoying your hobby but you.. You are the one though who is not only causing others to find grief in collecting, but your making places like Siebertron less enjoyable for those of us whom love transformers and would like to discuss them without mindless banter.
I just purchased an 1984, MIB , baggies still sealed, Mint box, optimus prime. Did I check the hell out of it, yep! Did it make it any less enjoyable, nope! I cant wait to send it to AFA.
Should everyone else have the ability to recapture their childhood without dishing out $1200 to $2000, absolutely.
As a fellow transformer fan, im sickened by the way you come on here attacking people, spreading lies about peoples websites and making false accusations, i have nothing left to say to you unless there is an apology only in your next reply.
(And freetouch, Till All Are One, man!) Your right, Gobots would be a 3rd party..
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby TransformersEmporium » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:14 am

Motto: ""Till All Are One""
Weapon: Ion-Charge Disperser Rifle

Amen freetouch....
You tell him, maybe he'll see the error in his ways and stop being such a butt head..
Though im not holding my breath...
Who else wants to petition takara to do Fort Max for the 30th ann??
:KREMZEEK:

NOOOOOOPE KO's haven't ruined anything. Look, just because YOU specifically are having a harder time with your toy's doesn't mean everyone else is. you do realize on ebay, you can dispute KO's. If a person sells you one, and says its an original, and it turns out to be a fake, you get you money back. It's not rocket science. Look... if hasbro would reissue g1 things more often, like they used to, more people would by them. Bootleggers are not screwing hasbro out of any money, because hasbro isnt making the toys. Fun fact, all those vintage things you buy from dealers, were already sold by hasbro, so they arent making another dime on anything. Unless its being released right now, as in PRIME toys, Hasbro already made their money, and aren't going to loose on KO's because they don't have a product out to compete with it.

Cry some more about your hobby. If you aren't having fun anymore, its not the hobby, it you. I collect Transforming robots, I have a large collection starting from U.S. G1 all the way up to Prime, with everything in between. Never once have I thought KO's or 3rd party were ruining my fun, the only people ruining my fun are Hasbro and Takara for not releasing more reissues, or better products like headmasters, PowerCore Combiners with transforming limbs, or Masterpiece pieces that are missing entire trailers, letting ebay scalpers make $1000 on a toy that could be easily reproduced for $80, and their terrible blanket support statement of a company that let hackers access everyone's credit card numbers because they used **** security.

Again, to summarize, I totally just made your day, because you didn't know you could dispute (and pretty much win every time because ebay protects buyers like a celebrity) any sales on ebay,and get our money back.

We are all fans, you are angry, and I get that, but you aren't understanding the whole picture. Instead of going after, C&D and sueing companies making toys based on their ip's that hastak has said they won't do, they should be combating them by producing a product that is better than, or at least tries to compete with, said items. Sure, a company can cry and hold their breath like a child until they pass out, but that won't make them any more money. You make money by making something people want. Do you think McDonalds bitches when I have a back yard cookout with my family and I make cheeseburgers that are better? No, they make more cheeseburgers. Hasbro needs to make more cheeseburgers.

I don't believe I just wrote this much about a toy. Have a good day.[/quote]
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby Bowspearer » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:21 am

freetouch wrote:Still a 3rd party, Go-bots are now illegal to sell. (if you haven't guessed by now, I dont care either way, so deal with it).


Complete fallacy on your part here as those are not what Hasbro were referring to, anyone looking at the announcement with even a shred of common sense can see that.


freetouch wrote:NOOOOOOPE KO's haven't ruined anything.


Really, so you're saying that scammers would still be able to pass off fakes as the real thing if said fakes weren't around to begin with?

freetouch wrote:Look, just because YOU specifically are having a harder time with your toy's doesn't mean everyone else is. you do realize on ebay, you can dispute KO's. If a person sells you one, and says its an original, and it turns out to be a fake, you get you money back. It's not rocket science.


Which ignores the fact that you have to go through the grief of paypal disputes and that it just kills off the joy when it actually happens- not to mention paying international shipping costs on sending the KOs back to the sellers, under Paypal rules with a claim.

freetouch wrote:Look... if hasbro would reissue g1 things more often, like they used to, more people would by them. Bootleggers are not screwing hasbro out of any money, because hasbro isnt making the toys.


Except that they're being deprived of royalties by people selling products that blatantly rip off their designs without paying Hasbro any royalties for said usage.

freetouch wrote:Fun fact, all those vintage things you buy from dealers, were already sold by hasbro, so they arent making another dime on anything. Unless its being released right now, as in PRIME toys, Hasbro already made their money, and aren't going to loose on KO's because they don't have a product out to compete with it.


This is where you condradict yourself- there is a significant difference between something being resold, where Hasbro have already gotten their cut of things, and someone ripping off their designs and cutting Hasbro out of the loop.

freetouch wrote:Cry some more about your hobby. If you aren't having fun anymore, its not the hobby, it you.


And when did I say the hobby overall wasn't fun anymore- I was specifically talking about buying MIB G1 Transformers. And no, when I'm so busy trying to make sure I'm not getting ripped off, that I can't enjoy the moment anymore of a find, then that's not me, it's the scammers and KOs.

freetouch wrote:We are all fans, you are angry, and I get that, but you aren't understanding the whole picture. Instead of going after, C&D and sueing companies making toys based on their ip's that hastak has said they won't do, they should be combating them by producing a product that is better than, or at least tries to compete with, said items. Sure, a company can cry and hold their breath like a child until they pass out, but that won't make them any more money. You make money by making something people want.


Except the Encore Metroplex situation where the KOs initially tried to copy the G1 box and then copied the Encore box, completely disproves your point. As that situation shows, all the scammers and bootleggers will do, is try and copy the reissue packaging, so whichever way you slice it, the blame for KOs lies squarely at the feet of those makng the Kos, not Hasbro.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby freetouch » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:23 am

TransformersEmporium wrote:[color=#0040FF]
Amen freetouch....
You tell him, maybe he'll see the error in his ways and stop being such a butt head..
Though im not holding my breath...
Who else wants to petition takara to do Fort Max for the 30th ann??


Rumor is that they are doing one.

Also, since you like my statements, you should totally give me a wicked discount at your store. I could totally got for a Black Devastator. :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby TransformersEmporium » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:26 am

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@ Freetouch, just ignore him.. He only wants to argue, if we ignore him he'll go away..
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby freetouch » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:29 am

@Bowspearer... look, i'm pretty sure you are just angry, and arguing to argue, but when it comes down to brass tax, I don't care. If you want to throw a hissy fit about it, rock on, fight the good fight. I'll be enjoying my toys.

The more you talk the more you prove its your problem, not everyone else's. I don't speak for everyone, and clearly neither do you, so lets agree to disagree, because neither of us are going to sway from our perspective.

Have a good one bro, try to relax and enjoy the rest of the day, its really nice and sunny here, maybe it is wherever you are as well.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby Bowspearer » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:32 am

TransformersEmporium wrote:http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/17


I'm well aware of the site and I've use it quite often. The point is that I shouldn't have to go through inspecting box art for the difference between a colon and a comma on the age recommendation disclaimer because the boxart on KOs is trying to replicate the real thing.

TransformersEmporium wrote:Should everyone else have the ability to recapture their childhood without dishing out $1200 to $2000, absolutely.


If something is worth that much, then absolutely not. Here's the thing about taking a mature approach to collecting. If you don't have the money to be able to afford something, you either go without, save up for it, or wait. There are some pieces I'd love to own but don't. One day I'll hopefully own them, but if I don't then so be it. That's the nature of collecting.

TransformersEmporium wrote: spreading lies about peoples websites and making false accusations,


And yet what exactly did I say about your site- that you do not expressly state that your G1 KOs are KOs and that doing so is misleading- something which Discharge was actually the first to raise with you and accused you of being negligent over - and the fact that by selling KOs you are acting illeegally. Both of these statements are entirely factual.
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And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby TransformersEmporium » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:36 am

Motto: ""Till All Are One""
Weapon: Ion-Charge Disperser Rifle
I could do that.... Ill message you..
And my fingers are crossed on the fort max. lol.



[
freetouch wrote:
TransformersEmporium wrote:[color=#0040FF]
Amen freetouch....
You tell him, maybe he'll see the error in his ways and stop being such a butt head..
Though im not holding my breath...
Who else wants to petition takara to do Fort Max for the 30th ann??


Rumor is that they are doing one.

Also, since you like my statements, you should totally give me a wicked discount at your store. I could totally got for a Black Devastator. :grin: :grin: :grin:
Freedom Is The Right Of All Sentient Beings!
That Inludes The Right to Buy 3rd Party Toys!!!

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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby Bowspearer » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:41 am

freetouch wrote:@Bowspearer... look, i'm pretty sure you are just angry, and arguing to argue, but when it comes down to brass tax, I don't care. If you want to throw a hissy fit about it, rock on, fight the good fight. I'll be enjoying my toys.


Actually it's more a case of having little tolerance for relativism and double ignorance (see Plato's "crimes of double ignorance") in a situation which doesn't just hurt HasTak, but us as fans. With 3rd arty stuff, HasTak are going to be less likely to produce certain figures, while KOs just introduce scamers into the mix which screw everyone over with how deceptive the boxart mimicry is. The ethics here are clear cut when people actually look at the elephant in the room, but people keep trying to pretend that the situation is everything but what it is.

freetouch wrote:The more you talk the more you prove its your problem, not everyone else's. I don't speak for everyone, and clearly neither do you, so lets agree to disagree, because neither of us are going to sway from our perspective.


And yet I'm not the only one on this forum who has a problem with KOs, and I've encountered several others on other forums who equally have a problem with them in terms of being scam-fodder and potential reasons why we don't get encores of certain figures. You can claim it's just me all you like, and try to convince yourself it's not the way it is. Yet as the old saying goes, the truth eventually catches up with us.
Fanboy wrote:You need to see the figure, feel the figure , lick the figure , be the figure,
And only then can you love mp 01 the way I have.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby freetouch » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:46 am

Don't care. Have a nice day.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby Counterpunch » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:41 am

Motto: "...and I used to be such a nice guy."
Weapon: Jawbreaker Cannon
Hey hey hey

If this thread becomes a garbage dump like the last one, I am going to skip the warnings and move straight to account review at an admin level for three month suspensions from the site.

Try me.

Anyone hiding behind the guise of "debate" while purposely antagonizing people is going to suffer the same consequences.
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby Fender Bender » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:53 am

Motto: "Whatever doesn't kill me will pay for it's failure."
Weapon: Dual Heat-Seeking Missile Launcher
Indeed, there is no room for this childish Horse Manure in a thread meant for Cow Pies. ;)

Would much prefer to focus on how awesome Dairycon is and why we're gonna have so much fun in April. :)
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Re: Dairycon 2012: The Announcement!

Postby freetouch » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:58 am

For reals yo. I'd love to go to dairyconthe exclusives look nice. Totally unique, wicked.
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