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Dead Island

This is the forum to discuss all of those video games you love playing or that are coming out. From Transformers video games to Fighting games to Sports games ... whatever makes you a happy Seibertronian. Just keep it the topics and conversations game and console related.

Re: Dead Island

Postby Shadowman » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:53 pm

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Autobot032 wrote:
Jesterhead wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:It's certainly not something to get joy out of. It's not a selling point, or at least it shouldn't be.


I get joy out of media that invokes strong emotions. Whether they are happy, sad, disgusted etc...

The dead child isn't what makes me excited about this game. It's the gritty and disturbing feel of the trailer. The dead child is just a (vivid) delivery method to get us connected to the media, to make us feel emotions. Obviously, it does a good job. The trailer was indeed very gut wretching.

I can't speak for anyone else, but generally, when I read a book, watch a movie, or play a video game, I like to experience situations which I wouldn't in real life.


Oh, I understand that. I get that point. I love escapist entertainment. But you didn't say the dead girl was what sold you on it, Sly more or less did. And there are plenty out there who would find that to be a selling point.

It's those people that do tend to be scary.


Exactly. It's okay to find the feeling of terror at those kinds of images as a selling point. But when you follow it up with that evil " :twisted: " smiley, it's pretty hard to infer that "terror" is the emotion you're feeling.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Me, Grimlock! » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:58 am

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Cyber Bishop wrote:I am a HUGE zombie fan, games, movies, whatever so when I saw this article about this game I was stoked for the possibility of a good zombie game. After seeing the incredible trailer (very emotional for a videogame) I want to pick this game up.


I'm late in the game for this discussion, but it's one of the (or the) most emotional trailer. A kid gets bitten, gets "saved" by her parents, and then turns just to jump on her dad? Whoa. Sometimes I have to remind myself it's just fictional.

I get that, in real life, a zombie attack would have child, baby, or infant casualties. A video game, though? I play a game (or watch a movie or read a book) to escape realism. Sure, they reflect real life, but some details (like dead children) I'd like game designers to ignore. A game isn't any more real for including dead children than for leaving them out. I can't even play Dead Rising 2 without getting a little touchy over having to deliver Katey her Zombrex. I can't bring myself to miss a dose even if that gets in the way of whatever achievement I'm going for.

(I'm also not sure I get the argument people use in movies about dead children or babies: "It's not real so stop whining." It's made to look as real as possible, but they blame me for having it evoke real emotions. I get that zombies killing kids isn't real, but kids dying is, so give me a break if infant fictional death makes me squirm. I can't watch AvP2 for that very reason. I wanted to walk out when I saw it.)

That said, I'll at least check out the game as long as we're not watching children dying all over the place. From what I hear, this is a 100% open sandbox game. Dead Rising took me 99% of the way to a perfect, never-ending zombie game. Hopefully this brings me all the way there, where you just go around dealing with the situation without a time limit.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby SlyTF1 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:23 pm

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lostinwebspace wrote:
(I'm also not sure I get the argument people use in movies about dead children or babies: "It's not real so stop whining." It's made to look as real as possible, but they blame me for having it evoke real emotions. I get that zombies killing kids isn't real, but kids dying is, so give me a break if infant fictional death makes me squirm. I can't watch AvP2 for that very reason. I wanted to walk out when I saw it.)


What I want to know is: What's the difference between a dead child and a dead grown up? I just don't get what's so different. They're all people, so what difference does it make?
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Shadowman » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:52 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
SlyTF1 wrote:
lostinwebspace wrote:
(I'm also not sure I get the argument people use in movies about dead children or babies: "It's not real so stop whining." It's made to look as real as possible, but they blame me for having it evoke real emotions. I get that zombies killing kids isn't real, but kids dying is, so give me a break if infant fictional death makes me squirm. I can't watch AvP2 for that very reason. I wanted to walk out when I saw it.)


What I want to know is: What's the difference between a dead child and a dead grown up? I just don't get what's so different. They're all people, so what difference does it make?


If you can't tell the difference, you got a lot of growing up to do.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Cyber Bishop » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:23 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:Isn't the German government trying to make real zombies?


Worst Case Scenario...
Unfortunately it is now dead in the water..

http://www.gorehoundinc.com/index2.html

Click on the 1st promo and CGI Promos
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Me, Grimlock! » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:50 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:to know is: What's the difference between a dead child and a dead grown up? I just don't get what's so different. They're all people, so what difference does it make?


This is all conjecture, but I have a feeling it's true. It also might be TLDNR, but if you're involved in the conversation, you might want to. :???:

1. Societal norms. I don't know when in history it started, but society has placed a great importance on children lives, something in our minds to make us respect more the value of a child's life than an adult's. I don't think this needs anything to back it up; this point is pretty much common knowledge. Just like yelling at a bystander for no reason is a no-no, so is allowing a child to be harmed or watching it happen more so than an adult. It's expected that we save a child before an adult (women and children first). And why? Society says so.

2a. Innocence. Not so much as an antonym of guilt (but I'll get to that), but more so about how much life they've lived. Notice that we feel less about deaths in movies the less innocent--or life experienced--we perceive a character. (This is why the older a character, the less we care.) The more they know and are capable of coping or understanding (see point #5), the less we care. We couldn't care less about Damien's death in the Omen. He's a kid, but he knows exactly what's doing since he's Satan's child. Same with the punk kids in Mimic. We think of them as expendable because they get what's going on; they're street punks even though they're probably ten, so we almost cheer when they die.

2b. Culpability. A child has done no wrong (or at least wrong they can understand). Adults have had plenty of opportunity to be douche bags and, as anyone can attest, no one is perfect. When in fiction, in our minds, even if the good far outweighs the bad, something in the backs of our minds says that it's okay for this or that adult to die. (Not so in real life, but we rarely see death firsthand in real life, so don't have a chance to think about it until after the fact.)

3. Opportunity. Children haven't lived full lives and haven't been given the chances that adults have.

4a. Evolution. We have an instinct to protect our young that was probably bred from when we were hunters/gatherers. This extends mostly to our own children, but a lot of people project this onto any child. This isn't true of just parents--there are as many non-parents who care deeply for children as there are parents who couldn't care less about their own young (these are the people we refer to when we say that child-rearing should be licensed)--but the point is there and it's probably a good rule of thumb. I can tell you that, since becoming a parent, I'm much more aware of child deaths. I wasn't fazed by the kid death in Demon Knight but, thinking back, I probably would be if I'd been a parent then.

4b. Crying. Evolution also has made crying a signal to a parent that evolution has made a key communication tool. Notice how parents will say that it's heart-breaking to hear their child cry even if the child is being punished or refused something they shouldn't have? Even if the crying is a result of a good thing, we still feel for the child. Mothers can hear a baby cry over other, louder sounds (some test somewhere has proven that, but I can't find it). They wake up to the sound of a baby cry even if there are louder sounds. Evolution has linked a mother to a baby's cry, and, probably to some degree, everybody is linked. When we hear a child cry in a movie or even see it pictured, we're urged to do something. If you can look at this picture and not feel pain, you're heartless. (Don't worry, it's not gruesome and a child isn't in peril; it just tugs at your heart strings.) And why should we feel at this picture? Because we know that children just can't cope (see point #5); they feel helpless and we feel an instinct to help.

5. Coping mechanisms. Children can't cope with danger, injury, mutilation, fear, or sadness like an adult. They just don't have the mental or physical faculties to do it. To them, anything outside of a strict norm is the equivalent of an adult living in an MC Escher insane asylum where the inmates have overrun the city. Children just can't know. Any change outside an incredibly minuscule norm has them going out of their minds. And danger is outside of that norm. Any danger. Even a loud sound.

6. Helplessness and thinking. An adult can pick up a gun or a baseball bat to defend him- or herself, but a child just can't. They're not able to think that through and don't have the leverage or strength to use it capably. Children are utterly helpless when left in danger, and that speaks to our hearts as human beings. Even when children have made the decision that led to their own deaths, they're not capable of thinking ahead the way adults can and so can't really be held responsible in that way.

Anyway, all this to say that a child death is more horrific to us than an adult death. Even the image of a fictional dead child evokes the same feelings as a real death. The defense some might give is that it's fictional, so it shouldn't matter. But what do our brains do? If it looks real and sounds real, our brains say it's real or, at the very least, remind us of the real. So, even in fiction, the death of a child hits us hard. Imagine this: if a child stick man died, we wouldn't feel anything, probably because a stick man is so far removed from what looks real that our brains don't tell us we should feel anything. However, an ad like Dead Island's (or a scene like AvP2's nursery scene or any given work) would make us feel as if it's real.

The reason I think an ad like Dead Island's makes us emotional is because we want to save the child but are helpless to do so since it's a video. We can't step in, rewind the ad, and grab her before she's bitten. Furthermore, we see the only people capable of doing that--her parents, who want to with all their hearts--fail to do so even though they're fighting tooth and nail.

SlyTF1 wrote:EXACTLY! That's the reason I play video games or watch a movie. To see or do things I can't do or wouldn't do in real life. It's an experiece.


You play video games to do or see things you want to do but can't, things you're not gutsy enough to try or are incapable of given your skill or the circumstances. You stated you liked the look of this game not because it lets you fight zombies but because you can see a kid to die.

Why people are telling you to see a professional is because the only reason you had given to liking this game was because a kid died (not even that it was a point of interest but that it was the sole reason why you wanted to play it) and then backed that statement up by saying the reason you play video games is to see or do things you can't in RL.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:50 am

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lostinwebspace wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:to know is: What's the difference between a dead child and a dead grown up? I just don't get what's so different. They're all people, so what difference does it make?


This is all conjecture, but I have a feeling it's true. It also might be TLDNR, but if you're involved in the conversation, you might want to. :???:

1. Societal norms. I don't know when in history it started, but society has placed a great importance on children lives, something in our minds to make us respect more the value of a child's life than an adult's. I don't think this needs anything to back it up; this point is pretty much common knowledge. Just like yelling at a bystander for no reason is a no-no, so is allowing a child to be harmed or watching it happen more so than an adult. It's expected that we save a child before an adult (women and children first). And why? Society says so.


That's the problem I have with everything. It's society saying these things. Society controls you and they make you believe lies. Violence is human nature. When humanity first began, people killed each other on the daily basis without a second thought. But now society made death seam like this horrible inhumane thing, when in reality it is the most humane thing you can possibly do. It's the definition of humane, not that it's right, but it's the definition of humane, because it's human nature.

2a. Innocence. Not so much as an antonym of guilt (but I'll get to that), but more so about how much life they've lived. Notice that we feel less about deaths in movies the less innocent--or life experienced--we perceive a character. (This is why the older a character, the less we care.) The more they know and are capable of coping or understanding (see point #5), the less we care. We couldn't care less about Damien's death in the Omen. He's a kid, but he knows exactly what's doing since he's Satan's child. Same with the punk kids in Mimic. We think of them as expendable because they get what's going on; they're street punks even though they're probably ten, so we almost cheer when they die.


No one in innocent. That's just my opinion though.

2b. Culpability. A child has done no wrong (or at least wrong they can understand). Adults have had plenty of opportunity to be douche bags and, as anyone can attest, no one is perfect. When in fiction, in our minds, even if the good far outweighs the bad, something in the backs of our minds says that it's okay for this or that adult to die. (Not so in real life, but we rarely see death firsthand in real life, so don't have a chance to think about it until after the fact.)


3. Opportunity. Children haven't lived full lives and haven't been given the chances that adults have.


IMO, this makes me feel even worse if an adult dies. It's like a whole life time gone to waste. And with a child, they really didn't have time to make an impact. They don't have anything to regret.

5. Coping mechanisms. Children can't cope with danger, injury, mutilation, fear, or sadness like an adult. They just don't have the mental or physical faculties to do it. To them, anything outside of a strict norm is the equivalent of an adult living in an MC Escher insane asylum where the inmates have overrun the city. Children just can't know. Any change outside an incredibly minuscule norm has them going out of their minds. And danger is outside of that norm. Any danger. Even a loud sound.
[/quote]

This is probrobly the problem that I'm having. Kids at my school joke all the time about killing children, but no one ever takes it seriously. Maybe it is our young minds that block out feeling for others. We don't care about anything but ourselves. We can kill a thousand people, and feel no regret, we can see it and think nothing of it. But that's what I think you're saying. We are human nature. We haven't been tought the things of society, so this makes us ignorant to everything society says. Children are the living embodyment of human nature, and I just recognised this. We don't listen to society, so we act on impulse. We still have much to learn; but who says society is a good thing though? What if it's the right thing to rebel against society and follow our natural instinct? What if society tells us the opposite of what reality is supposed to be? What if we have all lived past our expiration date? What if society is the reason humanity still thrives on this earth today? I guess society is a good thing, now. Because if it wasn't there we would all be dead. But what if we are throwing off the balance of the universe by staying alive for so long? Is society throwing off the balance of reality, or is it helping it move along? That's the question I'm gonna be asking myself forever. And I JUST noticed this. #-o

Here I go reading too much into things. I have the mind of a theorist, I guess.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Autobot032 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:04 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:
lostinwebspace wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:to know is: What's the difference between a dead child and a dead grown up? I just don't get what's so different. They're all people, so what difference does it make?


This is all conjecture, but I have a feeling it's true. It also might be TLDNR, but if you're involved in the conversation, you might want to. :???:

1. Societal norms. I don't know when in history it started, but society has placed a great importance on children lives, something in our minds to make us respect more the value of a child's life than an adult's. I don't think this needs anything to back it up; this point is pretty much common knowledge. Just like yelling at a bystander for no reason is a no-no, so is allowing a child to be harmed or watching it happen more so than an adult. It's expected that we save a child before an adult (women and children first). And why? Society says so.


That's the problem I have with everything. It's society saying these things. Society controls you and they make you believe lies. Violence is human nature. When humanity first began, people killed each other on the daily basis without a second thought. But now society made death seam like this horrible inhumane thing, when in reality it is the most humane thing you can possibly do. It's the definition of humane, not that it's right, but it's the definition of humane, because it's human nature.

2a. Innocence. Not so much as an antonym of guilt (but I'll get to that), but more so about how much life they've lived. Notice that we feel less about deaths in movies the less innocent--or life experienced--we perceive a character. (This is why the older a character, the less we care.) The more they know and are capable of coping or understanding (see point #5), the less we care. We couldn't care less about Damien's death in the Omen. He's a kid, but he knows exactly what's doing since he's Satan's child. Same with the punk kids in Mimic. We think of them as expendable because they get what's going on; they're street punks even though they're probably ten, so we almost cheer when they die.


No one in innocent. That's just my opinion though.

2b. Culpability. A child has done no wrong (or at least wrong they can understand). Adults have had plenty of opportunity to be douche bags and, as anyone can attest, no one is perfect. When in fiction, in our minds, even if the good far outweighs the bad, something in the backs of our minds says that it's okay for this or that adult to die. (Not so in real life, but we rarely see death firsthand in real life, so don't have a chance to think about it until after the fact.)


3. Opportunity. Children haven't lived full lives and haven't been given the chances that adults have.


IMO, this makes me feel even worse if an adult dies. It's like a whole life time gone to waste. And with a child, they really didn't have time to make an impact. They don't have anything to regret.

5. Coping mechanisms. Children can't cope with danger, injury, mutilation, fear, or sadness like an adult. They just don't have the mental or physical faculties to do it. To them, anything outside of a strict norm is the equivalent of an adult living in an MC Escher insane asylum where the inmates have overrun the city. Children just can't know. Any change outside an incredibly minuscule norm has them going out of their minds. And danger is outside of that norm. Any danger. Even a loud sound.


SlyTF1 wrote:This is probrobly the problem that I'm having. Kids at my school joke all the time about killing children, but no one ever takes it seriously. Maybe it is our young minds that block out feeling for others. We don't care about anything but ourselves. We can kill a thousand people, and feel no regret, we can see it and think nothing of it. But that's what I think you're saying. We are human nature. We haven't been tought the things of society, so this makes us ignorant to everything society says. Children are the living embodyment of human nature, and I just recognised this. We don't listen to society, so we act on impulse. We still have much to learn; but who says society is a good thing though? What if it's the right thing to rebel against society and follow our natural instinct? What if society tells us the opposite of what reality is supposed to be? What if we have all lived past our expiration date? What if society is the reason humanity still thrives on this earth today? I guess society is a good thing, now. Because if it wasn't there we would all be dead. But what if we are throwing off the balance of the universe by staying alive for so long? Is society throwing off the balance of reality, or is it helping it move along? That's the question I'm gonna be asking myself forever. And I JUST noticed this. #-o

Here I go reading too much into things. I have the mind of a theorist, I guess.



Wow.

1.) You *are* thinking far too deeply on this. There is a philosophy forum, in case you want to get the rest of this out of your head. Your mind must run a mile a minute. Ritalin, anyone?

2.) No one is innocent? Not even a child? Even a young one? Disturbing. Very disturbing.

3.) An adult life is more important than a child's because of more time spent? Children haven't the time to make an impact? Children have no regrets? Firstly: WTF? Secondly: Disturbing.

Ask anyone who is a parent, just how much of an impact their child made on their lives.

Ask any parent who lost a child, just how important their child's life was.

Children have no regrets? Then what does their conscience do? If a child is raised right and they have a conscience, then yes...they do have regrets. They also learn from them.

Normally, I find your posts to be fun, and somewhat agreeable, especially when it comes to ROTF, but lately, and especially here, I'm becoming worried.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:12 pm

Motto: "If my first sacrifice wasn't enough, maybe you would prefer to pay with your funky blood."
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Autobot032 wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
lostinwebspace wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:to know is: What's the difference between a dead child and a dead grown up? I just don't get what's so different. They're all people, so what difference does it make?


This is all conjecture, but I have a feeling it's true. It also might be TLDNR, but if you're involved in the conversation, you might want to. :???:

1. Societal norms. I don't know when in history it started, but society has placed a great importance on children lives, something in our minds to make us respect more the value of a child's life than an adult's. I don't think this needs anything to back it up; this point is pretty much common knowledge. Just like yelling at a bystander for no reason is a no-no, so is allowing a child to be harmed or watching it happen more so than an adult. It's expected that we save a child before an adult (women and children first). And why? Society says so.


That's the problem I have with everything. It's society saying these things. Society controls you and they make you believe lies. Violence is human nature. When humanity first began, people killed each other on the daily basis without a second thought. But now society made death seam like this horrible inhumane thing, when in reality it is the most humane thing you can possibly do. It's the definition of humane, not that it's right, but it's the definition of humane, because it's human nature.

2a. Innocence. Not so much as an antonym of guilt (but I'll get to that), but more so about how much life they've lived. Notice that we feel less about deaths in movies the less innocent--or life experienced--we perceive a character. (This is why the older a character, the less we care.) The more they know and are capable of coping or understanding (see point #5), the less we care. We couldn't care less about Damien's death in the Omen. He's a kid, but he knows exactly what's doing since he's Satan's child. Same with the punk kids in Mimic. We think of them as expendable because they get what's going on; they're street punks even though they're probably ten, so we almost cheer when they die.


No one in innocent. That's just my opinion though.

2b. Culpability. A child has done no wrong (or at least wrong they can understand). Adults have had plenty of opportunity to be douche bags and, as anyone can attest, no one is perfect. When in fiction, in our minds, even if the good far outweighs the bad, something in the backs of our minds says that it's okay for this or that adult to die. (Not so in real life, but we rarely see death firsthand in real life, so don't have a chance to think about it until after the fact.)


3. Opportunity. Children haven't lived full lives and haven't been given the chances that adults have.


IMO, this makes me feel even worse if an adult dies. It's like a whole life time gone to waste. And with a child, they really didn't have time to make an impact. They don't have anything to regret.

5. Coping mechanisms. Children can't cope with danger, injury, mutilation, fear, or sadness like an adult. They just don't have the mental or physical faculties to do it. To them, anything outside of a strict norm is the equivalent of an adult living in an MC Escher insane asylum where the inmates have overrun the city. Children just can't know. Any change outside an incredibly minuscule norm has them going out of their minds. And danger is outside of that norm. Any danger. Even a loud sound.


SlyTF1 wrote:This is probrobly the problem that I'm having. Kids at my school joke all the time about killing children, but no one ever takes it seriously. Maybe it is our young minds that block out feeling for others. We don't care about anything but ourselves. We can kill a thousand people, and feel no regret, we can see it and think nothing of it. But that's what I think you're saying. We are human nature. We haven't been tought the things of society, so this makes us ignorant to everything society says. Children are the living embodyment of human nature, and I just recognised this. We don't listen to society, so we act on impulse. We still have much to learn; but who says society is a good thing though? What if it's the right thing to rebel against society and follow our natural instinct? What if society tells us the opposite of what reality is supposed to be? What if we have all lived past our expiration date? What if society is the reason humanity still thrives on this earth today? I guess society is a good thing, now. Because if it wasn't there we would all be dead. But what if we are throwing off the balance of the universe by staying alive for so long? Is society throwing off the balance of reality, or is it helping it move along? That's the question I'm gonna be asking myself forever. And I JUST noticed this. #-o

Here I go reading too much into things. I have the mind of a theorist, I guess.



Wow.

1.) You *are* thinking far too deeply on this. There is a philosophy forum, in case you want to get the rest of this out of your head. Your mind must run a mile a minute. Ritalin, anyone?

2.) No one is innocent? Not even a child? Even a young one? Disturbing. Very disturbing.

3.) An adult life is more important than a child's because of more time spent? Children haven't the time to make an impact? Children have no regrets? Firstly: WTF? Secondly: Disturbing.

Ask anyone who is a parent, just how much of an impact their child made on their lives.

Ask any parent who lost a child, just how important their child's life was.

Children have no regrets? Then what does their conscience do? If a child is raised right and they have a conscience, then yes...they do have regrets. They also learn from them.

Normally, I find your posts to be fun, and somewhat agreeable, especially when it comes to ROTF, but lately, and especially here, I'm becoming worried.


It's like I said: I'm a kid, and our thinking is human nature. I haven't had society effect me yet, so I am embracing the humane side of things. I'm pretty sure in the next 2 years, (When I turn 18 and move out into the real world, when I have to enter society.) I'll learn to value the life of a child. Until then, I think every human being (including children) are as corrupt and deserving of judgement as anyone else.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Autobot032 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:21 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
lostinwebspace wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:to know is: What's the difference between a dead child and a dead grown up? I just don't get what's so different. They're all people, so what difference does it make?


This is all conjecture, but I have a feeling it's true. It also might be TLDNR, but if you're involved in the conversation, you might want to. :???:

1. Societal norms. I don't know when in history it started, but society has placed a great importance on children lives, something in our minds to make us respect more the value of a child's life than an adult's. I don't think this needs anything to back it up; this point is pretty much common knowledge. Just like yelling at a bystander for no reason is a no-no, so is allowing a child to be harmed or watching it happen more so than an adult. It's expected that we save a child before an adult (women and children first). And why? Society says so.


That's the problem I have with everything. It's society saying these things. Society controls you and they make you believe lies. Violence is human nature. When humanity first began, people killed each other on the daily basis without a second thought. But now society made death seam like this horrible inhumane thing, when in reality it is the most humane thing you can possibly do. It's the definition of humane, not that it's right, but it's the definition of humane, because it's human nature.

2a. Innocence. Not so much as an antonym of guilt (but I'll get to that), but more so about how much life they've lived. Notice that we feel less about deaths in movies the less innocent--or life experienced--we perceive a character. (This is why the older a character, the less we care.) The more they know and are capable of coping or understanding (see point #5), the less we care. We couldn't care less about Damien's death in the Omen. He's a kid, but he knows exactly what's doing since he's Satan's child. Same with the punk kids in Mimic. We think of them as expendable because they get what's going on; they're street punks even though they're probably ten, so we almost cheer when they die.


No one in innocent. That's just my opinion though.

2b. Culpability. A child has done no wrong (or at least wrong they can understand). Adults have had plenty of opportunity to be douche bags and, as anyone can attest, no one is perfect. When in fiction, in our minds, even if the good far outweighs the bad, something in the backs of our minds says that it's okay for this or that adult to die. (Not so in real life, but we rarely see death firsthand in real life, so don't have a chance to think about it until after the fact.)


3. Opportunity. Children haven't lived full lives and haven't been given the chances that adults have.


IMO, this makes me feel even worse if an adult dies. It's like a whole life time gone to waste. And with a child, they really didn't have time to make an impact. They don't have anything to regret.

5. Coping mechanisms. Children can't cope with danger, injury, mutilation, fear, or sadness like an adult. They just don't have the mental or physical faculties to do it. To them, anything outside of a strict norm is the equivalent of an adult living in an MC Escher insane asylum where the inmates have overrun the city. Children just can't know. Any change outside an incredibly minuscule norm has them going out of their minds. And danger is outside of that norm. Any danger. Even a loud sound.


SlyTF1 wrote:This is probrobly the problem that I'm having. Kids at my school joke all the time about killing children, but no one ever takes it seriously. Maybe it is our young minds that block out feeling for others. We don't care about anything but ourselves. We can kill a thousand people, and feel no regret, we can see it and think nothing of it. But that's what I think you're saying. We are human nature. We haven't been tought the things of society, so this makes us ignorant to everything society says. Children are the living embodyment of human nature, and I just recognised this. We don't listen to society, so we act on impulse. We still have much to learn; but who says society is a good thing though? What if it's the right thing to rebel against society and follow our natural instinct? What if society tells us the opposite of what reality is supposed to be? What if we have all lived past our expiration date? What if society is the reason humanity still thrives on this earth today? I guess society is a good thing, now. Because if it wasn't there we would all be dead. But what if we are throwing off the balance of the universe by staying alive for so long? Is society throwing off the balance of reality, or is it helping it move along? That's the question I'm gonna be asking myself forever. And I JUST noticed this. #-o

Here I go reading too much into things. I have the mind of a theorist, I guess.



Wow.

1.) You *are* thinking far too deeply on this. There is a philosophy forum, in case you want to get the rest of this out of your head. Your mind must run a mile a minute. Ritalin, anyone?

2.) No one is innocent? Not even a child? Even a young one? Disturbing. Very disturbing.

3.) An adult life is more important than a child's because of more time spent? Children haven't the time to make an impact? Children have no regrets? Firstly: WTF? Secondly: Disturbing.

Ask anyone who is a parent, just how much of an impact their child made on their lives.

Ask any parent who lost a child, just how important their child's life was.

Children have no regrets? Then what does their conscience do? If a child is raised right and they have a conscience, then yes...they do have regrets. They also learn from them.

Normally, I find your posts to be fun, and somewhat agreeable, especially when it comes to ROTF, but lately, and especially here, I'm becoming worried.


It's like I said: I'm a kid, and our thinking is human nature. I haven't had society effect me yet, so I am embracing the humane side of things. I'm pretty sure in the next 2 years, (When I turn 18 and move out into the real world, when I have to enter society.) I'll learn to value the life of a child. Until then, I think every human being (including children) are as corrupt and deserving of judgement as anyone else.


I'm serious here, I think you might need to seek out a kind therapist. If you hate humanity this much now, growing up without guidance and heading out into the real world with this train of thought is just going to lead to a downward spiral.

If you can't see the value of human life and think no one's innocent, then you strike me as being potentially dangerous. And poo pooing it away with "it hasn't affected me yet" isn't helping matters.

Seriously, I'm not making fun here, I'm genuinely concerned. I don't know if this is all you, or someone instilled this silliness in you, but it's not right. Human life is precious and does have value, no matter the age. And yes, there are innocents. Of every age.

I remember being a teenager. I remember being selfish. I don't remember this. Today's generation scares the **** out of me, because they're the future.

We're screwed.
NOTE: Realize that I am not a perfect Christian, nor do I profess to be. I apologize if anyone's ever offended by me, I'm not perfect. Don't hold my posts and opinions against other Christians.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Shadowman » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:29 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:That's the problem I have with everything. It's society saying these things. Society controls you and they make you believe lies. Violence is human nature. When humanity first began, people killed each other on the daily basis without a second thought.


That's because we were uncivilized animals. Anything we did during humanity's early days is NOT something we should be doing now.

SlyTF1 wrote:But now society made death seam like this horrible inhumane thing, when in reality it is the most humane thing you can possibly do. It's the definition of humane, not that it's right, but it's the definition of humane, because it's human nature.


"Humane" is treating living beings with respect and compassion. If you consider killing to be humane, then you seriously, seriously need to seek mental help. Sure, things like euthanasia can be considered humane--that's a discussion for another day, though--but not the kind of death we're discussing.

SlyTF1 wrote:No one in innocent. That's just my opinion though.


Your opinion is wrong. And i actually get to say that because, hey, it's true.

SlyTF1 wrote:IMO, this makes me feel even worse if an adult dies. It's like a whole life time gone to waste. And with a child, they really didn't have time to make an impact. They don't have anything to regret.


That is the most twisted way of thinking I have ever seen. I'm not even joking, you really do need help.

Autobot032 wrote:Normally, I find your posts to be fun, and somewhat agreeable, especially when it comes to ROTF, but lately, and especially here, I'm becoming worried.


Me too. I don't suppose there's a way we could bring these posts to his parents' attention?
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Re: Dead Island

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:36 pm

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Autobot032 wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
lostinwebspace wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:to know is: What's the difference between a dead child and a dead grown up? I just don't get what's so different. They're all people, so what difference does it make?


This is all conjecture, but I have a feeling it's true. It also might be TLDNR, but if you're involved in the conversation, you might want to. :???:

1. Societal norms. I don't know when in history it started, but society has placed a great importance on children lives, something in our minds to make us respect more the value of a child's life than an adult's. I don't think this needs anything to back it up; this point is pretty much common knowledge. Just like yelling at a bystander for no reason is a no-no, so is allowing a child to be harmed or watching it happen more so than an adult. It's expected that we save a child before an adult (women and children first). And why? Society says so.


That's the problem I have with everything. It's society saying these things. Society controls you and they make you believe lies. Violence is human nature. When humanity first began, people killed each other on the daily basis without a second thought. But now society made death seam like this horrible inhumane thing, when in reality it is the most humane thing you can possibly do. It's the definition of humane, not that it's right, but it's the definition of humane, because it's human nature.

2a. Innocence. Not so much as an antonym of guilt (but I'll get to that), but more so about how much life they've lived. Notice that we feel less about deaths in movies the less innocent--or life experienced--we perceive a character. (This is why the older a character, the less we care.) The more they know and are capable of coping or understanding (see point #5), the less we care. We couldn't care less about Damien's death in the Omen. He's a kid, but he knows exactly what's doing since he's Satan's child. Same with the punk kids in Mimic. We think of them as expendable because they get what's going on; they're street punks even though they're probably ten, so we almost cheer when they die.


No one in innocent. That's just my opinion though.

2b. Culpability. A child has done no wrong (or at least wrong they can understand). Adults have had plenty of opportunity to be douche bags and, as anyone can attest, no one is perfect. When in fiction, in our minds, even if the good far outweighs the bad, something in the backs of our minds says that it's okay for this or that adult to die. (Not so in real life, but we rarely see death firsthand in real life, so don't have a chance to think about it until after the fact.)


3. Opportunity. Children haven't lived full lives and haven't been given the chances that adults have.


IMO, this makes me feel even worse if an adult dies. It's like a whole life time gone to waste. And with a child, they really didn't have time to make an impact. They don't have anything to regret.

5. Coping mechanisms. Children can't cope with danger, injury, mutilation, fear, or sadness like an adult. They just don't have the mental or physical faculties to do it. To them, anything outside of a strict norm is the equivalent of an adult living in an MC Escher insane asylum where the inmates have overrun the city. Children just can't know. Any change outside an incredibly minuscule norm has them going out of their minds. And danger is outside of that norm. Any danger. Even a loud sound.


SlyTF1 wrote:This is probrobly the problem that I'm having. Kids at my school joke all the time about killing children, but no one ever takes it seriously. Maybe it is our young minds that block out feeling for others. We don't care about anything but ourselves. We can kill a thousand people, and feel no regret, we can see it and think nothing of it. But that's what I think you're saying. We are human nature. We haven't been tought the things of society, so this makes us ignorant to everything society says. Children are the living embodyment of human nature, and I just recognised this. We don't listen to society, so we act on impulse. We still have much to learn; but who says society is a good thing though? What if it's the right thing to rebel against society and follow our natural instinct? What if society tells us the opposite of what reality is supposed to be? What if we have all lived past our expiration date? What if society is the reason humanity still thrives on this earth today? I guess society is a good thing, now. Because if it wasn't there we would all be dead. But what if we are throwing off the balance of the universe by staying alive for so long? Is society throwing off the balance of reality, or is it helping it move along? That's the question I'm gonna be asking myself forever. And I JUST noticed this. #-o

Here I go reading too much into things. I have the mind of a theorist, I guess.



Wow.

1.) You *are* thinking far too deeply on this. There is a philosophy forum, in case you want to get the rest of this out of your head. Your mind must run a mile a minute. Ritalin, anyone?

2.) No one is innocent? Not even a child? Even a young one? Disturbing. Very disturbing.

3.) An adult life is more important than a child's because of more time spent? Children haven't the time to make an impact? Children have no regrets? Firstly: WTF? Secondly: Disturbing.

Ask anyone who is a parent, just how much of an impact their child made on their lives.

Ask any parent who lost a child, just how important their child's life was.

Children have no regrets? Then what does their conscience do? If a child is raised right and they have a conscience, then yes...they do have regrets. They also learn from them.

Normally, I find your posts to be fun, and somewhat agreeable, especially when it comes to ROTF, but lately, and especially here, I'm becoming worried.


It's like I said: I'm a kid, and our thinking is human nature. I haven't had society effect me yet, so I am embracing the humane side of things. I'm pretty sure in the next 2 years, (When I turn 18 and move out into the real world, when I have to enter society.) I'll learn to value the life of a child. Until then, I think every human being (including children) are as corrupt and deserving of judgement as anyone else.


I'm serious here, I think you might need to seek out a kind therapist. If you hate humanity this much now, growing up without guidance and heading out into the real world with this train of thought is just going to lead to a downward spiral.

If you can't see the value of human life and think no one's innocent, then you strike me as being potentially dangerous. And poo pooing it away with "it hasn't affected me yet" isn't helping matters.

Seriously, I'm not making fun here, I'm genuinely concerned. I don't know if this is all you, or someone instilled this silliness in you, but it's not right. Human life is precious and does have value, no matter the age. And yes, there are innocents. Of every age.

I remember being a teenager. I remember being selfish. I don't remember this. Today's generation scares the **** out of me, because they're the future.

We're screwed.


That's what I mean! It IS this generation! Everyone my age pretty much thinks the same way. I've heard people talk.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Autobot032 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:36 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:That's the problem I have with everything. It's society saying these things. Society controls you and they make you believe lies. Violence is human nature. When humanity first began, people killed each other on the daily basis without a second thought.


That's because we were uncivilized animals. Anything we did during humanity's early days is NOT something we should be doing now.


Excellent point. I missed that by a mile.

Shadowman wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:But now society made death seam like this horrible inhumane thing, when in reality it is the most humane thing you can possibly do. It's the definition of humane, not that it's right, but it's the definition of humane, because it's human nature.


"Humane" is treating living beings with respect and compassion. If you consider killing to be humane, then you seriously, seriously need to seek mental help. Sure, things like euthanasia can be considered humane--that's a discussion for another day, though--but not the kind of death we're discussing.


O_o...I completely missed this part. I was so flustered that it didn't even register.

Shadowman wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:No one in innocent. That's just my opinion though.


Your opinion is wrong. And i actually get to say that because, hey, it's true.


It's oh so rare, but moments like these do exist, and I'm glad I got to bear witness to it.

Shadowman wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:IMO, this makes me feel even worse if an adult dies. It's like a whole life time gone to waste. And with a child, they really didn't have time to make an impact. They don't have anything to regret.


That is the most twisted way of thinking I have ever seen. I'm not even joking, you really do need help.


It does actually scare me. And I want Sly and others reading this, that it's not my intention to gang up on or dogpile Sly. I'm genuinely concerned for him.

Shadowman wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:Normally, I find your posts to be fun, and somewhat agreeable, especially when it comes to ROTF, but lately, and especially here, I'm becoming worried.


Me too. I don't suppose there's a way we could bring these posts to his parents' attention?


If it would help, that would be great, but I'm wondering if they're part of the problem and not the solution?

SlyTF1 wrote:That's what I mean! It IS this generation! Everyone my age pretty much thinks the same way. I've heard people talk.


Then parenting and our education system truly have failed you. All of you.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Jesterhead » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:40 pm

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Doesn't anyone else think that Sly is trollin' a bit here?

Honestly, I can't even take what he is saying seriously anymore. He's clearly making up some sort of 'badass' persona he wants us to view him as, and giving the most obvious answers, to see reactions. Sly, you're not impressing anyone...

I'd suggest stop trolling, or, if you really feel this way: take a reality check, and grow the hell up.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:43 pm

Motto: "If my first sacrifice wasn't enough, maybe you would prefer to pay with your funky blood."
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Jesterhead wrote:Doesn't anyone else think that Sly is trollin' a bit here?

Honestly, I can't even take what he is saying seriously anymore. He's clearly making up some sort of 'badass' persona he wants us to view him as, and giving the most obvious answers, to see reactions. Sly, you're not impressing anyone...

I'd suggest stop trolling, or, if you really feel this way: take a reality check, and grow the hell up.


I'm not trolling. This is what I think.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:45 pm

Motto: "If my first sacrifice wasn't enough, maybe you would prefer to pay with your funky blood."
Weapon: Sword
Autobot032 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:That's the problem I have with everything. It's society saying these things. Society controls you and they make you believe lies. Violence is human nature. When humanity first began, people killed each other on the daily basis without a second thought.


That's because we were uncivilized animals. Anything we did during humanity's early days is NOT something we should be doing now.


Excellent point. I missed that by a mile.

Shadowman wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:But now society made death seam like this horrible inhumane thing, when in reality it is the most humane thing you can possibly do. It's the definition of humane, not that it's right, but it's the definition of humane, because it's human nature.


"Humane" is treating living beings with respect and compassion. If you consider killing to be humane, then you seriously, seriously need to seek mental help. Sure, things like euthanasia can be considered humane--that's a discussion for another day, though--but not the kind of death we're discussing.


O_o...I completely missed this part. I was so flustered that it didn't even register.

Shadowman wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:No one in innocent. That's just my opinion though.


Your opinion is wrong. And i actually get to say that because, hey, it's true.


It's oh so rare, but moments like these do exist, and I'm glad I got to bear witness to it.

Shadowman wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:IMO, this makes me feel even worse if an adult dies. It's like a whole life time gone to waste. And with a child, they really didn't have time to make an impact. They don't have anything to regret.


That is the most twisted way of thinking I have ever seen. I'm not even joking, you really do need help.


It does actually scare me. And I want Sly and others reading this, that it's not my intention to gang up on or dogpile Sly. I'm genuinely concerned for him.

Shadowman wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:Normally, I find your posts to be fun, and somewhat agreeable, especially when it comes to ROTF, but lately, and especially here, I'm becoming worried.


Me too. I don't suppose there's a way we could bring these posts to his parents' attention?


If it would help, that would be great, but I'm wondering if they're part of the problem and not the solution?

SlyTF1 wrote:That's what I mean! It IS this generation! Everyone my age pretty much thinks the same way. I've heard people talk.


Then parenting and our education system truly have failed you. All of you.



Maybe it is the education system. Because last year we read a book in school where the whole point was to say that not even children are innocent and that everyone deserves to die...maybe that's what it is. I'm not making this up either. The whole book was about kids killing each other.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Shadowman » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:53 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Jesterhead wrote:Doesn't anyone else think that Sly is trollin' a bit here?

Honestly, I can't even take what he is saying seriously anymore. He's clearly making up some sort of 'badass' persona he wants us to view him as, and giving the most obvious answers, to see reactions. Sly, you're not impressing anyone...

I'd suggest stop trolling, or, if you really feel this way: take a reality check, and grow the hell up.


I don't think that it's a "badass" persona. I think it's a "deranged little kid" persona.

SlyTF1 wrote:I'm not trolling. This is what I think.


Not the answer I would have picked. "I'm saying this because your anger is funny" is a helluva lot more sane than "I'm saying this because I think a child's life is worth less than that of an adult's."

SlyTF1 wrote:Maybe it is the education system. Because last year we read a book in school where the whole point was to say that not even children are innocent and that everyone deserves to die...maybe that's what it is. I'm not making this up either. The whole book was about kids killing each other.


What book was that? Because I'm willing to bet you got the message entirely wrong.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Jesterhead » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:56 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
Jesterhead wrote:Doesn't anyone else think that Sly is trollin' a bit here?

Honestly, I can't even take what he is saying seriously anymore. He's clearly making up some sort of 'badass' persona he wants us to view him as, and giving the most obvious answers, to see reactions. Sly, you're not impressing anyone...

I'd suggest stop trolling, or, if you really feel this way: take a reality check, and grow the hell up.


I don't think that it's a "badass" persona. I think it's a "deranged little kid" persona.


Oh God, me either.

But maybe 'badass' is what he thinks?

Also Sly, why should I believe you when you said this in a (un-)surprisingly similar thread a few weeks ago when you decided to hate everything about censorship of Bulletstorm?

SlyTF1 wrote:I'm just kidding you guys. I didn't say anything earlier because I wanted to see how everyone would react. I love how easily you can off set the balance of humanity by one post!
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Re: Dead Island

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:26 pm

Motto: "If my first sacrifice wasn't enough, maybe you would prefer to pay with your funky blood."
Weapon: Sword
Jesterhead wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Jesterhead wrote:Doesn't anyone else think that Sly is trollin' a bit here?

Honestly, I can't even take what he is saying seriously anymore. He's clearly making up some sort of 'badass' persona he wants us to view him as, and giving the most obvious answers, to see reactions. Sly, you're not impressing anyone...

I'd suggest stop trolling, or, if you really feel this way: take a reality check, and grow the hell up.


I don't think that it's a "badass" persona. I think it's a "deranged little kid" persona.


Oh God, me either.

But maybe 'badass' is what he thinks?

Also Sly, why should I believe you when you said this in a (un-)surprisingly similar thread a few weeks ago when you decided to hate everything about censorship of Bulletstorm?

SlyTF1 wrote:I'm just kidding you guys. I didn't say anything earlier because I wanted to see how everyone would react. I love how easily you can off set the balance of humanity by one post!


It was one post I was referring to. I was genuinely pissed about the censorship, though.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:28 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Maybe it is the education system. Because last year we read a book in school where the whole point was to say that not even children are innocent and that everyone deserves to die...maybe that's what it is. I'm not making this up either. The whole book was about kids killing each other.


What book was that? Because I'm willing to bet you got the message entirely wrong.


It was definitely about that. The teacher told us, and the author wrote in the back of the book that that's what it was about. There's no mistaking that.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby Me, Grimlock! » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:05 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:
1. Societal norms. I don't know when in history it started, but society has placed a great importance on children lives, something in our minds to make us respect more the value of a child's life than an adult's. I don't think this needs anything to back it up; this point is pretty much common knowledge. Just like yelling at a bystander for no reason is a no-no, so is allowing a child to be harmed or watching it happen more so than an adult. It's expected that we save a child before an adult (women and children first). And why? Society says so.


That's the problem I have with everything. It's society saying these things. Society controls you and they make you believe lies. Violence is human nature. When humanity first began, people killed each other on the daily basis without a second thought. But now society made death seam like this horrible inhumane thing, when in reality it is the most humane thing you can possibly do. It's the definition of humane, not that it's right, but it's the definition of humane, because it's human nature.


A clarification to make: I'm not talking about our human nature to kill each other. My point is it's our human nature to protect our young. We didn't get into an uproar because Duke Nukem went on a killing spree; this discussion is about a child dying in a video game ad and how you stated that was your sole reason in wanting to play this game.

But if you think the definition of humane is to kill, perhaps you need to visit Merriam-Webster's web site a little more often. But I--and probably a few lawyers and therapists--would like to hear how killing each other is the most human thing you can possibly do.

To address something else, you say you have a problem with society dictating your social norms. I have to ask: do you have a problem leaving the house without bathing, using the word "irregardless," wearing out-of-style or ludicrous clothing, urinating on a sidewalk, or ending a sentence in a preposition? Then society controls you. And these are just the tiny, inconsequential things. There are certain things that society says are wrong just because society says, and everyone follows that.

SlyTF1 wrote:
2a. Innocence. Not so much as an antonym of guilt (but I'll get to that), but more so about how much life they've lived. Notice that we feel less about deaths in movies the less innocent--or life experienced--we perceive a character. (This is why the older a character, the less we care.) The more they know and are capable of coping or understanding (see point #5), the less we care. We couldn't care less about Damien's death in the Omen. He's a kid, but he knows exactly what's doing since he's Satan's child. Same with the punk kids in Mimic. We think of them as expendable because they get what's going on; they're street punks even though they're probably ten, so we almost cheer when they die.


No one in innocent. That's just my opinion though.


Read this, because I think you skipped the paragraph after the first word. I'm referring to innocence as experience, not an antonym of guilt. You might have wanted to quote the paragraph about culpability, but even in that case, I didn't say children have done no wrong, but that they can't understand the wrong they have done.

SlyTF1 wrote:This is probrobly the problem that I'm having. Kids at my school joke all the time about killing children, but no one ever takes it seriously.


It's at this point that I would dare say a lot of people would stop considering them children under the conditions I cited, and start considering them at least somewhat progressed into adulthood. They aren't adults in body, but their minds are shaped past childhood. The kids you're referring to would violate at least the part about innocence and, probably sooner or later, culpability.

SlyTF1 wrote:We can kill a thousand people, and feel no regret, we can see it and think nothing of it.


I have no doubt that some people are true of this, but they're the vast minority and the ones we say need therapy.

SlyTF1 wrote:Is society throwing off the balance of reality, or is it helping it move along? That's the question I'm gonna be asking myself forever. And I JUST noticed this. #-o


This is an age-old question. Philosophy majors are still fighting this. Check out "nature vs. nurture." It's about if society shapes humans or if humans shape society.

Autobot032 wrote:Ask anyone who is a parent, just how much of an impact their child made on their lives.


If I lost one of my children, it would wreck me. My emotions would be bulldozed. Life would never be enjoyable to the same level again.
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Re: Dead Island

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:55 am

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lostinwebspace wrote:To address something else, you say you have a problem with society dictating your social norms. I have to ask: do you have a problem leaving the house without bathing, using the word "irregardless," wearing out-of-style or ludicrous clothing, urinating on a sidewalk, or ending a sentence in a preposition? Then society controls you. And these are just the tiny, inconsequential things. There are certain things that society says are wrong just because society says, and everyone follows that.


I don't normally bathe when I leave my house, I can use the word irregardless if I wanted to, I wear the same jacket every day, if I have to pee, and there's no bathroom, I'll sure as hell do it on a sidewalk...in the bushes though, and I can end a sentence with a preposition if I wanted to too So, no; not really.

lostinwebspace wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:Ask anyone who is a parent, just how much of an impact their child made on their lives.


If I lost one of my children, it would wreck me. My emotions would be bulldozed. Life would never be enjoyable to the same level again.


And of course the parent would be devistated; but here's what I'm saying, let me just rephrase everything. I don't get upset when people die. People in general, which is why I don't see the difference. You want to know why I don't get upset? Because we're all going to die. It doesn't matter how you do it, but death is inevitable. If everyone was immortal and people died, I'd get upset. But we all have to do it some time, and you just have to move on. Oh, plus I see death as moving on anyway. I don't see it as the end to everything. That's mainly why.
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