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Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Darth Bombshell » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:10 pm

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njb902 wrote:If you're talking about the Karen Traviss thing then yes there was a hicup. However they have tried over the years to get it as right as they can. Why Lucas film changed the mandos I don't know, but I can live with a blip here and there.


Um...no. I'm not talking about the Karen Traviss thing. I'm talking about the writers knowingly killing off two Jedi despite knowing (especially in one case) that said Jedi was meant to be killed later in the timeframe.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby njb902 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:23 pm

Darth Bombshell wrote:
njb902 wrote:If you're talking about the Karen Traviss thing then yes there was a hicup. However they have tried over the years to get it as right as they can. Why Lucas film changed the mandos I don't know, but I can live with a blip here and there.


Um...no. I'm not talking about the Karen Traviss thing. I'm talking about the writers knowingly killing off two Jedi despite knowing (especially in one case) that said Jedi was meant to be killed later in the timeframe.


Meh. Since this all happened a long time ago in a galaxy far away I just consider this stuff to be "historical" accounts. History is ripe with inaccuracies, so again inconsistencies are okay. I just don't want them to ignore the expanded universe entirely.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:26 pm

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njb902 wrote:
Darth Bombshell wrote:
njb902 wrote:If you're talking about the Karen Traviss thing then yes there was a hicup. However they have tried over the years to get it as right as they can. Why Lucas film changed the mandos I don't know, but I can live with a blip here and there.


Um...no. I'm not talking about the Karen Traviss thing. I'm talking about the writers knowingly killing off two Jedi despite knowing (especially in one case) that said Jedi was meant to be killed later in the timeframe.


Meh. Since this all happened a long time ago in a galaxy far away I just consider this stuff to be "historical" accounts. History is ripe with inaccuracies, so again inconsistencies are okay. I just don't want them to ignore the expanded universe entirely.
Gotta wonder what's going on currently in that galaxy far far away. ;)
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby njb902 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:29 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
njb902 wrote:
Darth Bombshell wrote:
njb902 wrote:If you're talking about the Karen Traviss thing then yes there was a hicup. However they have tried over the years to get it as right as they can. Why Lucas film changed the mandos I don't know, but I can live with a blip here and there.


Um...no. I'm not talking about the Karen Traviss thing. I'm talking about the writers knowingly killing off two Jedi despite knowing (especially in one case) that said Jedi was meant to be killed later in the timeframe.


Meh. Since this all happened a long time ago in a galaxy far away I just consider this stuff to be "historical" accounts. History is ripe with inaccuracies, so again inconsistencies are okay. I just don't want them to ignore the expanded universe entirely.
Gotta wonder what's going on currently in that galaxy far far away. ;)



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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Trikeboy » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:36 pm

Sorry to burst your bubbles but the expanded universe stories are not official canon for the Star Wars saga. The Clone Wars show has already retconned a few things I believe. Only the movies and TV shows are official. George Lucas gave all his story notes to Kathleen Kennedy.

Simple facts for those still complaining. 1. George Lucas doesn't want to do more but he is open to others making them. 2. George Lucas is tired of the so called "fans" who do nothing but bitch and moan all the time. 3. Without the sale to Disney, there would be no more movies. 4. Disney do a great job working with studios. Just look at Pixar, ABC, Marvel and ESPN. 5. He has given Kathleen Kennedy all his notes and possible plot lines that he came up with when it was 12 movies. 6. Heir to the Empire will be a 24 year old story in 2015 and most Star Wars fans have already read it. Why not have something new?

This is a good move by George Lucas. It puts the studio in a great place to make more movies and no longer be influenced by the brown nosing "Yes Men" that George surrounded himself with.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby njb902 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:41 pm

Trikeboy wrote:Sorry to burst your bubbles but the expanded universe stories are not official canon for the Star Wars saga. The Clone Wars show has already retconned a few things I believe. Only the movies and TV shows are official. George Lucas gave all his story notes to Kathleen Kennedy.

Simple facts for those still complaining. 1. George Lucas doesn't want to do more but he is open to others making them. 2. George Lucas is tired of the so called "fans" who do nothing but bitch and moan all the time. 3. Without the sale to Disney, there would be no more movies. 4. Disney do a great job working with studios. Just look at Pixar, ABC, Marvel and ESPN. 5. He has given Kathleen Kennedy all his notes and possible plot lines that he came up with when it was 12 movies. 6. Heir to the Empire will be a 24 year old story in 2015 and most Star Wars fans have already read it. Why not have something new?

This is a good move by George Lucas. It puts the studio in a great place to make more movies and no longer be influenced by the brown nosing "Yes Men" that George surrounded himself with.



Since when?
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:42 pm

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Trikeboy wrote:3. Without the sale to Disney, there would be no more movies.
And there are those fans who are happy about there having been no more movies and do not want any more movies to be made. Why, there are even those who did not want the prequels to be made and only wanted/still want the Original Trilogy to remain the only Star Wars films.

Note: I am none of those fans and am intrigued by the prospect of new movies. ;)
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Darth Bombshell » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:06 pm

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njb902 wrote: Meh. Since this all happened a long time ago in a galaxy far away I just consider this stuff to be "historical" accounts. History is ripe with inaccuracies, so again inconsistencies are okay. I just don't want them to ignore the expanded universe entirely.


Oh, they've been "inconsistencies" when it comes to Star Wars since the very beginning. Thing is, there used to be people who actually bothered to fix them. No one like that's been around for quite some time.

Oh, and as for the two incidents I mentioned before, one can be described as an "inconsistency" (not really, but I can do it for the sake of an argument). The other is a flat out contradiction that no amount of band-aiding can fix.

Sabrblade wrote:Gotta wonder what's going on currently in that galaxy far far away. ;)


Oh, you know. Sith running around all over the place; Control of the Galactic Alliance handed over to a proven nutjob with severe delusions of sanity; nonsensical plots dragged out to eat up page space. Y’know. The usual.

(If you haven’t gathered by now, no, I am not a fan of the most recent novel series.)

Trikeboy wrote:Sorry to burst your bubbles but the expanded universe stories are not official canon for the Star Wars saga.


Then why allow it to continue? Why would he want to put work out there that doesn't fit his vision?

Trikeboy wrote:2. George Lucas is tired of the so called "fans" who do nothing but bitch and moan all the time.


Maybe we wouldn't bitch so much if he actually made an effort to have his work be more consistent. And to put out the original original trilogy on DVD instead of a new version ever so often on the latest format.

Trikeboy wrote:3. Without the sale to Disney, there would be no more movies.


And the problem with that would be...?

Trikeboy wrote:6. Heir to the Empire will be a 24 year old story in 2015 and most Star Wars fans have already read it. Why not have something new?


Because, as Clone Wars and the majority of the novels published in the past five years or so have proven, new does not equal good.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Shadowman » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:44 pm

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Darth Bombshell wrote:Um...no. I'm not talking about the Karen Traviss thing. I'm talking about the writers knowingly killing off two Jedi despite knowing (especially in one case) that said Jedi was meant to be killed later in the timeframe.


Who and who?

Darth Bombshell wrote:Then why allow it to continue? Why would he want to put work out there that doesn't fit his vision?


So people can enjoy more Star Wars. It doesn't mean he has to actually pay attention to it.

Darth Bombshell wrote:Maybe we wouldn't bitch so much if he actually made an effort to have his work be more consistent.


He did. Unfortunately, he's not making it consistent with other people's works that have, for many, many years, been specifically described as lower-priority as far as canon goes.

Darth Bombshell wrote:Because, in my opinion, new does not equal good.


Fixed that for you. Some of us actually like Clone Wars. ;)
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby njb902 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:08 pm

I love the clone Wars, it's one of the few shows that both my wife and myself like.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Darth Bombshell » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:20 am

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Shadowman wrote:
Who and who?


Even Piell in Citadel Rescue (despite dying in the chronologically later Coruscant Nights: Jedi Twilight) and Adi Gallia in Revival (despite dying in the chronologically later Obsession miniseries.) Clone Wars Season Three and the Coruscant Nights trilogy were done at roughly the same time, so I can accept that it's a inconsistency. However, Clone Wars Season Five and Obsession were done seven years apart, so, in that case, what happened was done out of wilful ignorance on the part of past canon; they obviously could have found out what had happened before, but instead said, “Ah, *$@& it. We’ll do whatever the @*$& we want."

Shadowman wrote:So people can enjoy more Star Wars. It doesn't mean he has to actually pay attention to it.


He can either pay attention to it and make sure it all fits together, or he can choose which he wants to make "official" and discard the rest. He can't have it both ways.

Shadowman wrote:Fixed that for you. Some of us actually like Clone Wars. ;)


I like Clone Wars too. I just don't like when it decides to let off a few continuity farts. Unfortunately, it seems to be doing that a lot, lately.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Shadowman » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:57 am

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Darth Bombshell wrote:He can either pay attention to it and make sure it all fits together, or he can choose which he wants to make "official" and discard the rest. He can't have it both ways.


Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't that what he's doing? Isn't that exactly what you're complaining about, keeping some parts but rendered the rest non-canon?

Darth Bombshell wrote:I like Clone Wars too. I just don't like when it decides to let off a few continuity farts. Unfortunately, it seems to be doing that a lot, lately.


The Mandalore thing convinced Karen Traviss to leave Star Wars fiction (Not in time to save Mara Jade, though) so it has that going for it.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Trikeboy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:06 am

njb902 wrote:
Trikeboy wrote:Sorry to burst your bubbles but the expanded universe stories are not official canon for the Star Wars saga. The Clone Wars show has already retconned a few things I believe. Only the movies and TV shows are official. George Lucas gave all his story notes to Kathleen Kennedy.

Simple facts for those still complaining. 1. George Lucas doesn't want to do more but he is open to others making them. 2. George Lucas is tired of the so called "fans" who do nothing but bitch and moan all the time. 3. Without the sale to Disney, there would be no more movies. 4. Disney do a great job working with studios. Just look at Pixar, ABC, Marvel and ESPN. 5. He has given Kathleen Kennedy all his notes and possible plot lines that he came up with when it was 12 movies. 6. Heir to the Empire will be a 24 year old story in 2015 and most Star Wars fans have already read it. Why not have something new?

This is a good move by George Lucas. It puts the studio in a great place to make more movies and no longer be influenced by the brown nosing "Yes Men" that George surrounded himself with.


Since when?


It is well documented over the years that the Expanded Universe isn't canon with the movies. George Lucas himself has stated that real Star Wars is only the movies. Everything else is licensed but he would never have bound himself to what other authors have done. If he wanted Chewbacca to be alive, he would have Chewbacca alive. Have you ever heard of the Holocron? It is something that exists at Lucasfilm that keeps track of all the continuities. One of these continuities is called G-canon. Which is the main canon of the Star Wars universe. The only things in this continuity are the movies, radio plays of the movies, novelisations of the movies and anything that George Lucas has stated as fact for his universe. The expanded universe, according to Lucas, is almost like a parallel universe.

From Total Film in May 2008
Lucas: The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."


Starlog magazine August 2005
STARLOG: "The Star Wars Universe is so large and diverse. Do you ever find yourself confused by the subsidiary material that's in the novels, comics, and other offshoots?"

LUCAS: "I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."


Authors have to get permission to do things in the Star Wars universe. One of the biggest was the aforementioned death of Chewbacca. George Lucas himself had to gave the ok to do that.

Essentially there are two Star Wars franchise. Those that follow the story that George Lucas created and those that other people write on.

BTW, I'm not a strong follower of the EU. I am not a subscriber to the whole Chewbacca life debt thing since the only references to this are in the expanded universe. The first references were in the Han Solo Adventures books.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Burn » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:26 am

And people criticise Bay for his ego ... oh hey, here's George Lucas, he cries and runs away because the fans upset him. He ignores stories that he approved a license for.

Whatever. He may have created the characters, but that's the only good thing he's ever done for the franchise, unfortunately his bloated ego has made it impossible for him to see that.

/end rant.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Trikeboy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:30 am

Burn wrote:And people criticise Bay for his ego ... oh hey, here's George Lucas, he cries and runs away because the fans upset him. He ignores stories that he approved a license for.

Whatever. He may have created the characters, but that's the only good thing he's ever done for the franchise, unfortunately his bloated ego has made it impossible for him to see that.

/end rant.


Lucas and Bay probably tie in the ego camp
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Darth Bombshell » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:59 am

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Shadowman wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't that what he's doing? Isn't that exactly what you're complaining about, keeping some parts but rendered the rest non-canon?


Well...I guess so, yeah. But it DOES bother me that he can chuck out previous work just because he says so.

Shadowman wrote:The Mandalore thing convinced Karen Traviss to leave Star Wars fiction (Not in time to save Mara Jade, though) so it has that going for it.


I think that's something every fan should be grateful for.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Capt.Failure » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:58 am

Trikeboy wrote:
Burn wrote:And people criticise Bay for his ego ... oh hey, here's George Lucas, he cries and runs away because the fans upset him. He ignores stories that he approved a license for.

Whatever. He may have created the characters, but that's the only good thing he's ever done for the franchise, unfortunately his bloated ego has made it impossible for him to see that.

/end rant.


Lucas and Bay probably tie in the ego camp


Doubt it. Lucas is probably the biggest egomaniac auteur in Hollywood with James Cameron a close second. I've always said nothing ruins a film worse than pretentiousness and Lucas' attitude about the special editions and Prequels stank of it. He's not wrong, the fans are. Never mind that he directed on an objective level the worst three films of all time and turned the vast majority of his own fans away for good. But hey, we at least got Kinect Star Wars, am I right?

By compare Bay is merely confident in what he makes with little to no pretentiousness. I know that will go over like a fart in church, but the truth is generally unpleasant to hear.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:15 am

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I read this post on another forum that explains the different tiered levels of Star Wars canon pretty well enough:

In Star Wars, George Lucas is God. When he lends out his universe to other creators for cartoons, comics, novels, video games, etc, it's with the understanding that he remains God, can veto anything they attempt before production, has no requirement to follow anything they do, and can actively contradict the "Expanded Universe" at will. And so, the tiered approach to Star Wars continuity was created. There's actually a job at Lucasfilm Productions called Keeper of the Holocron, the Holocron Continuity Database where the entire 25,000 year history of the SW universe is kept and maintained.

G-canon - Again, George Lucas is God. The six films have the strongest canon out of any Star Wars production, and anything Lucas has a direct hand in is equally sacrosanct. If Lucas said Yoda is Undercover Kermit at a convention, that would become a given truth.

T-canon - A relatively new canon level for television projects Lucas is involved in, but not as important as the films. The Clone Wars cartoon series fits here.

C-canon - Just about everything else in Expanded Universe Continuity. The novels, the video games, the Dark Horse comics, and the general body of the Expanded Universe is C-canon. Explicitly second to G-canon, if a Dark Horse comic from 1993 established the name of Han Solo's mother was Jill, and George Lucas says in an interview tomorrow that Han's mother was named Meg, Jill becomes an error. The Expanded Universe writers are then forced to establish via retcon that her name was actually "Meg Jill Solo", that Jill was actually Han's stepmother, or whatever...but Lucas is always right.

S-canon - Secondary canon, which can be followed or not followed by writers as they choose. What G-canon is to C-canon, C-canon is to S-canon. This often refers to SW stories produced prior to 1991, when the deliberate efforts to maintain and direct overall SW continuity were adopted. The Marvel Comics SW series from the 80's if often cited as an example of S-canon, typically ignored by modern EU writers. The don't have to be completely ignored, though...the Marvel character Lumiya became a major villain in the Legacy of the Force novels a few years ago. C-canon writers can take what they like from S-canon, and ignore the rest.

N-canon - Out of continuity. Not part of the timeline.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Shadowman » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:28 am

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Capt.Failure wrote:Never mind that he directed on an objective level the worst three films of all time and turned the vast majority of his own fans away for good. But hey, we at least got Kinect Star Wars, am I right?


So, what, Tommy Wiseau, Ed Wood, and Uwe Boll are just pen names of his or something?
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Capt.Failure » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:06 pm

Shadowman wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:Never mind that he directed on an objective level the worst three films of all time and turned the vast majority of his own fans away for good. But hey, we at least got Kinect Star Wars, am I right?


So, what, Tommy Wiseau, Ed Wood, and Uwe Boll are just pen names of his or something?


None of them created with their own hands a sci-fi classic, then with those same hands destroyed that same classic's artistic integrity. Lucas has much to answer for.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Shadowman » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:11 pm

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Capt.Failure wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:Never mind that he directed on an objective level the worst three films of all time and turned the vast majority of his own fans away for good. But hey, we at least got Kinect Star Wars, am I right?


So, what, Tommy Wiseau, Ed Wood, and Uwe Boll are just pen names of his or something?


None of them created with their own hands a sci-fi classic, then with those same hands destroyed that same classic's artistic integrity. Lucas has much to answer for.


Okay, I get it. So if you make a movie, and it's good, but then make a sequel and it's bad, then you're worse than people who only make consistently bad movies. That makes sense.

This is why he left. He couldn't take the constant bitching of "fans," who kept telling him he couldn't make the movies he wanted, that his vision was second to the "fans" desires. It has everything to do with overinflated ego, just not Lucas'. I can hardly blame him for wanting to leave. He's had to put up with constant bitching for damn near forty years.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby njb902 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:18 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:Never mind that he directed on an objective level the worst three films of all time and turned the vast majority of his own fans away for good. But hey, we at least got Kinect Star Wars, am I right?


So, what, Tommy Wiseau, Ed Wood, and Uwe Boll are just pen names of his or something?


None of them created with their own hands a sci-fi classic, then with those same hands destroyed that same classic's artistic integrity. Lucas has much to answer for.


To answer for? He didn't commit a crime. Look in the end star wars is/was his, we may not like everything but please lose the entitlement.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby AdamFett » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:27 pm

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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Burn » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:44 pm

Shadowman wrote:This is why he left. He couldn't take the constant bitching of "fans," who kept telling him he couldn't make the movies he wanted, that his vision was second to the "fans" desires. It has everything to do with overinflated ego, just not Lucas'. I can hardly blame him for wanting to leave. He's had to put up with constant bitching for damn near forty years.


Oh please, you're going to buy into that crap?

He's a damn drama queen. He has absolutely no reason to listen to the fans, and I seriously doubt he does. He left because he was made a good offer.

If you created something, built it up over 40 years, copped all sorts of criticism, would you give it up because of the criticism or the $4 billion you were offered?

Sorry, but I don't believe for an instant that Lucas couldn't handle the criticism any more. If that truly was the case, he should have a nice teaspoon of concrete and harden the **** up.
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Re: Disney buys Lucasfilm, Episode 7 coming!

Postby Trikeboy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:30 pm

When will "fans" realise Star Wars and Lucasfilm belong to George Lucas and he can do what he wants with them? If he wants to sell his company, he is perfectly entitled to it. Just because you didn't like the prequels it doesn't mean shit to him. Those movies are the movies HE wanted in HIS franchise. Don't like it? go watch something else. The story of Star Wars comes from George Lucas. He is the story teller.
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