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Screamfleet wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:One thing I hate about G1 is how it's become the "main" generation in terms of homages. It's to be expected, I guess, since it's the original one, but it's disappointing how Black Shadow getting a new toy or Bulkhead appearing in Prime or even Waspinator and Dinobot winning HoF spots are "unheard of."

It certainly doesn't help that I have little connection with any of the G1 guys.

My hope is that Transformers will grow as brand and hasbro will broaden it a bit too. Right now, hasbro wants to have one continuity, which is fine. I just hope maybe in the future, we can see two series within this continuity. Suppose Transformers Prime goes on for another few years, why not a beast wars series along side it?

It seems like a never happen situation. Especially with how hasbro repeatedly says no plans for any beast wars related merchandise. I hope though, like how marvel has multiple characters and shows, that transformers can be the same way. You know, there's the Avengers and The x-men, and why not the autobots and the maximals?

I see your point.

Keep in mind that Marvel is composed of several stories, most of which are not direclty connected and the merchandise was made after all of the stories where established. TF's started as 'just' G1, story there to support toystoystoys and evolved over the years, with Maximals as a byproduct of Autobots, not a seperate storyline.

IMO Marvel operates towards the older geek, a demographic which could buy comics with their allowance. Hasbro aims towards parents, because most kids would have to actually save up a period of time for a 'bot. Parents can put down the cash far more easily.
In order to not confuse the poor saps, their kids probably are going to have to be precise about what figure they want. Multiple stories running at once is just going to confuse the hell out of them.

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:Keep in mind that Marvel is composed of several stories, most of which are not direclty connected and the merchandise was made after all of the stories where established. TF's started as 'just' G1,

"G1" is not one story, though. Not even in the 1980s. There were at least two different "G1" stories running at the time. The cartoon and the Marvel Comics (note that the comics actually came first, before the cartoon, and even outlived it by four years).

Yes, but that was more due to bad communication between the two teams, the cartoon was supposed to expand upon the comic and be set in the same universe.
Also, the differences where mostly superficial, since technically it was still the same series and the same characters. But what RhA wants is to have multiple different continuities/series with different characters going at the same time, kinda like Prime and then Beast Wars and Armada.
Which is kinda happening, we've got Prime, we've got idw G1 comics and we've got Movie and toy line fiction for Generations etc.

Dead Metal wrote:Yes, but that was more due to bad communication between the two teams, the cartoon was supposed to expand upon the comic and be set in the same universe.

where did you get that info?

I've never seen anything that remotely suggest the plan was anything but 2 different stories.

Also, the differences where mostly superficial, since technically it was still the same series and the same characters. But what RhA wants is to have multiple different continuities/series with different characters going at the same time, kinda like Prime and then Beast Wars and Armada.
Which is kinda happening, we've got Prime, we've got idw G1 comics and we've got Movie and toy line fiction for Generations etc.

"superficial"............maybe in your opinion.

Sabrblade wrote:We now return to the main topic.

SlyTF1 wrote:Of damn course there are people who don't like G1 who are still TF fans. People like my age. People who like Transformers but don't feel like sitting through old 80's cartoons where the animation is stiff, there's horrible diologue and the person either has ADHD or think they're too old to watch cartoons from the 80s. I like G1, but I can see why someone my age would hate G1, but love TF Prime, the movies, etc.

Sounds like you've had personal experience with anti-G1 fans. Care to elaborate?

I have not. I'm just saying I don't see why there wouldn't be.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Yes, but that was more due to bad communication between the two teams, the cartoon was supposed to expand upon the comic and be set in the same universe.

Haven't heard that before. Got a link?

Here you go. I remember how he said that originally all was handled by two teams under him, but that after a while the team for the cartoon ether did not get new and complete information (they somehow only received the first half of Shockwaves bio for instance) or decided to go their own direction.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, the differences where mostly superficial, since technically it was still the same series and the same characters.

Blaster sure wasn't the same in both. In the cartoon, he was a jive-talking radio DJ dude. In the comic, he was Robot Wolverine.

And Shockwave was Mr. Loyalty in the toon. Comic Shockwave was Evil Spock and a more competent leader than Megatron ever was.

And Grimlock was literally a dimwit (not meant as an insult, but a statement) in the show, while he only has a speech impediment in the comic. And the other Dinobots weren't dumb either in the comics.

And any animal bot spoke with normal intellect in the comic, while only making animal noises (barring a few excepted cases) or speaking in "Dinobot-speak" in the cartoon.

Sure, that's why I said "technically", Implying that the differences between them do not make them as separate as for instance G1 and Armada.

Dead Metal wrote:But what RhA wants is to have multiple different continuities/series with different characters going at the same time, kinda like Prime and then Beast Wars and Armada.
Which is kinda happening, we've got Prime, we've got idw G1 comics and we've got Movie and toy line fiction for Generations etc.

Don't forget the new Rescue Bots cartoon coming soon.

Though, it kinda looks like the Movie fiction is done for now, since there have been no new comics or media material since the DOTM novel/comic adaptations.

OK, forgot about Rescue bots.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Yes, but that was more due to bad communication between the two teams, the cartoon was supposed to expand upon the comic and be set in the same universe.

where did you get that info?

I've never seen anything that remotely suggest the plan was anything but 2 different stories.

Same as above.

Also, the differences where mostly superficial, since technically it was still the same series and the same characters. But what RhA wants is to have multiple different continuities/series with different characters going at the same time, kinda like Prime and then Beast Wars and Armada.
Which is kinda happening, we've got Prime, we've got idw G1 comics and we've got Movie and toy line fiction for Generations etc.

"superficial"............maybe in your opinion.

And in your opinion blocky has to do with the amount of articulation something has instead of it's proper meaning, so you really have no right to call me out on that, seeing as you do the same.

Dead Metal wrote:Here you go.

thank you

And in your opinion blocky has to do with the amount of articulation something has instead of it's proper meaning, so you really have no right to call me out on that, seeing as you do the same.

there is no such thing as a "proper meaning" for the term blocky, and I have the right to say anything I choose, as long as I'm civil

and its not like I was saying your wrong, just saying that your idea of "superficial" differes from mines.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Here you go.

thank you

And in your opinion blocky has to do with the amount of articulation something has instead of it's proper meaning, so you really have no right to call me out on that, seeing as you do the same.

there is no such thing as a "proper meaning" for the term blocky, and I have the right to say anything I choose, as long as I'm civil

and its not like I was saying your wrong, just saying that your idea of "superficial" differes from mines.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/blocky

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/superficial Note definition 4
I just didn't like the way you worded your original reply.

Dead Metal wrote:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/blocky

1]like a block, esp in shape and solidity
blockiness
2]blocky - resembling a block in shape

and the articulation of a figure can greatly effect the "shape", or the appearance of "shape"

so, there is no "proper use" of the term, its always going to be a matter of personal judgment.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/superficial Note definition 4

"4. Trivial; insignificant"
"4. of little substance or significance; trivial superficial differences"

which I find to be anything but superficial.Granted, there may be less differences then similarities between the 2 universes, but the differences are not what I would call superficial.

I just didn't like the way you worded your original reply.

it wasnt intended to be rude, sorry if it came off that way.

I see your point.

Keep in mind that Marvel is composed of several stories, most of which are not direclty connected and the merchandise was made after all of the stories where established. TF's started as 'just' G1, story there to support toystoystoys and evolved over the years, with Maximals as a byproduct of Autobots, not a seperate storyline.

IMO Marvel operates towards the older geek, a demographic which could buy comics with their allowance. Hasbro aims towards parents, because most kids would have to actually save up a period of time for a 'bot. Parents can put down the cash far more easily.
In order to not confuse the poor saps, their kids probably are going to have to be precise about what figure they want. Multiple stories running at once is just going to confuse the hell out of them.

See, at this point I may still agree with the sentiment that Marvel can do it and Transformers cannot. The Marvel characters are getting to be 50 years old soon. So, they have twice as much time to have established themselves. Comics its always been about many multiple heroes getting their own stories. You got Avengers, which each had their own, X-men, Spider-man, Fantastic Four, and all the others. Transformers has been, by design a one at a time thing. That's how their brand operates.

Though, the movie continuity being around at the same time as animated and then aligned one gives me a bit of hope. Still, you can see how they're doing it. Everything is still G1 inspired. Like, they're not doing a series without optimus and megatron.

Hub also never airs season 3 of G1. I think it's great they show season 1 and 2, but I know they've made a decision, that goes along with what you said. They're trying to maintain a certain image, look and design. They have things the way they want them right now. Rodimus and Galvatron don't compute into this right now.

I don't see it happening tomorrow, but I hope it's something that happens. Really, things seems really locked into how they're operating.

It's funny, it seems like it's being done to reduce confusion, but if I were a kid following the aligned continuity, I would find the difference in interpretations of the characters confusing. What they're doing now is pretty ambitious, so I don't want to see them run thin. Let them do the games, the novels and TV show and see how it goes. I just hope, if it goes well enough, we'll see more branch off from it.

blocky?


RhA -- who's that woman in your sig??

G1:
1 Retro, simple look
2 Rubber tires abound
3 Simple transformations
4 Durable construction
5 Metal parts and chrome
6 Cool, catchy musical score
7 Interesting dialogue and plots
8 Not P.C.
9 Sophisticated fans
10 Come as you are

Modern:
1 Modern, detailed look
2 All plastic
3 20-minute transformations
4 Parts pop off and can be hard to stand up
5 Almost entirely plastic
6 Composers not paid enough
7 Touchy-feely
8 Really P.C.
9 A mix of fans
10 Tries too hard

ADVANTAGE: G1

cagey wrote:G1:
1 Retro, simple look
2 Rubber tires abound
3 Simple transformations
4 Durable construction
5 Metal parts and chrome
6 Cool, catchy musical score
7 Interesting dialogue and plots
8 Not P.C.
9 Sophisticated fans
10 Come as you are

Modern:
1 Modern, detailed look
2 All plastic
3 20-minute transformations
4 Parts pop off and can be hard to stand up
5 Almost entirely plastic
6 Composers not paid enough
7 Touchy-feely
8 Not P.C.
9 A mix of fans
10 Tries too hard

ADVANTAGE: G1

G1
1 Old out of date undetailed look
2 Rotting rubber tiers
3 Simplistic transformations
4 Little to articulation
5 Chipped paint on metal parts, deteriorated, chipped off chrome
6 Catchy iconic but simple musical score
7 Shoddy writing
8 World filled with racist cartoons of people
9 Blind sighted fans who are stuck in the past and too stupid to transforms something more complex than G1 Prime
10 No intention to deliver a quality show, it's just a 30 minute commercial

Modern
1 Up to the times and full of detail
2 All plastic and therefore longer lasting
3 Intuitive designs and engineering that trains people's cognitive functions
4 Harder to break due to parts popping off when the wrong kind of force is used
5 Made of plastic due to better durability, detailing, engineering, child safety, and cost
6 Composers that write actual music with complex notes
7 Up to the times and not as prude as the old people
8 Diverse cast with inspiration from different cultures and sub cultures
9 A diverse variety of fans from all walks of life
10 Actually tries to make a product that's not just a toy advertisement

I typo'd 8 on modern TFs - should read, "Really P.C."

Anyway, see, Sarblade? With only some neutral observations, even a noob touched a nerve and brought a possible G1 hater out into the light. We have proven that G1 haters exist. "Good, good, let the hate flow through you."

cagey wrote:I typo'd 8 on modern TFs - should read, "Really P.C."

Anyway, see, Sarblade? With only some neutral observations, even a noob touched a nerve and brought a possible G1 hater out into the light. We have proven that G1 haters exist. "Good, good, let the hate flow through you."

Those weren't neutral observations, but biassed observations.

Also, if you had paid close observation to this thread, I outed myself on the first page.

Nice try but try harder at trolling and one day you might actually be successful.

G1
-recycled molds from various toy lines clumsily* lumped into a single brand
*see: Ironhide/Ratchet's "head"

Modern
-entirely new molds designed specifically for the brand; lines with a movie/cartoon/game follow said fiction, not the other way around

Noideaforaname wrote:lines with a movie/cartoon/game follow said fiction, not the other way around

umm, excuse me but this confused me..."movie/cartoon/game that follow said fiction"??

movie/cartoon and game ARE said fiction.............so how can the fiction follow itself?

also....."not the other way around"???

what exactly do you mean?The fiction has always followed the toyline.

Trolling? I would think that a member of such seniority here wouldn't need to throw barbs around like that (e.g. "too stupid", "racist".) All I learned from the first page is that you seem to thrive on having the last word about everything.

G1:
1 Retro, simple look
2 Rubber tires abound
3 Simple transformations
4 Durable construction
5 Metal parts and chrome
6 Cool, catchy musical score
7 Interesting dialogue and plots
8 Not P.C.
9 Sophisticated fans
10 Come as you are

Modern:
1 Modern, detailed look
2 All plastic
3 20-minute transformations
4 Parts pop off and can be hard to stand up
5 Almost entirely plastic
6 Composers not paid enough
7 Touchy-feely
8 Really P.C.
9 A mix of fans
10 Tries too hard

ADVANTAGE: G1

cagey wrote:Trolling? I would think that a member of such seniority here wouldn't need to throw barbs around like that (e.g. "too stupid", "racist".) All I learned from the first page is that you seem to thrive on having the last word about everything.

G1:
1 Retro, simple look
2 Rubber tires abound
3 Simple transformations
4 Durable construction
5 Metal parts and chrome
6 Cool, catchy musical score
7 Interesting dialogue and plots
8 Not P.C.
9 Sophisticated fans
10 Come as you are

Modern:
1 Modern, detailed look
2 All plastic
3 20-minute transformations
4 Parts pop off and can be hard to stand up
5 Almost entirely plastic
6 Composers not paid enough
7 Touchy-feely
8 Really P.C.
9 A mix of fans
10 Tries too hard

ADVANTAGE: G1

Where do you get that from, that I need to have the last word? I simply posted how I feel on this subject and that was it. Please point out to me where in that post I imply to having the last word.
Also on the whole stupid and racist thing, you started it with the whole "sophisticated fans", implying that people who don't like G1 are somehow inferior to G1 fans. I simply gave you a taste of your own medicine.

Also, those lists you created are simply your own opinion and not fact, that's something you have to learn to tell the difference of.

A mix of fans doesn't imply unsophisticated, c'mon man!! And please don't make me go through the entire thread and cite all the previous multiquotes, etc. either. I regret I may have angered you on a sensitive topic, but as a senior staff member, you should probably not be so bothered so much by things other people have to say, especially a poor noob.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:umm, excuse me but this confused me..."movie/cartoon/game that follow said fiction"??

movie/cartoon and game ARE said fiction.............so how can the fiction follow itself?

also....."not the other way around"???

what exactly do you mean?The fiction has always followed the toyline.

The creators of modern fiction (War for Cybertron/Animated/Bay Movies/etc.) design the characters themselves as opposed to using pre-existing designs from Hasbro. G1 (at least at first) didn't design their characters but instead used pre-existing designs from Hasbro. Modern toys follow the fiction, G1 fiction followed the toys.

Noideaforaname wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:umm, excuse me but this confused me..."movie/cartoon/game that follow said fiction"??

movie/cartoon and game ARE said fiction.............so how can the fiction follow itself?

also....."not the other way around"???

what exactly do you mean?The fiction has always followed the toyline.

The creators of modern fiction (War for Cybertron/Animated/Bay Movies/etc.) design the characters themselves as opposed to using pre-existing designs from Hasbro. G1 (at least at first) didn't design their characters but instead used pre-existing designs from Hasbro. Modern toys follow the fiction, G1 fiction followed the toys.

ahh, I see what you mean now, but I think thats only partly true.
Sure, some of Don Figarolas [spelling?] designs were later made into toys, but its my understanding that with WFC,Animated & the Bay Movies, the character designes worked in junction with the toy designers.

So, it not really a case toys following the fiction.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:umm, excuse me but this confused me..."movie/cartoon/game that follow said fiction"??

movie/cartoon and game ARE said fiction.............so how can the fiction follow itself?

also....."not the other way around"???

what exactly do you mean?The fiction has always followed the toyline.

The creators of modern fiction (War for Cybertron/Animated/Bay Movies/etc.) design the characters themselves as opposed to using pre-existing designs from Hasbro. G1 (at least at first) didn't design their characters but instead used pre-existing designs from Hasbro. Modern toys follow the fiction, G1 fiction followed the toys.

ahh, I see what you mean now, but I think thats only partly true.
Sure, some of Don Figarolas [spelling?] designs were later made into toys, but its my understanding that with WFC,Animated & the Bay Movies, the character designes worked in junction with the toy designers.

So, it not really a case toys following the fiction.

No not, really. The designs where made and then sent to Hasbro to be made into toys, all the toy designers did with the final designs was, to make slight revisions so that they work better as toys. For instance Animated Prowl, the toy designer asked the concept artist to put the wheels from the shoulders onto his legs because he had a great idea for a new transformations sequence.

And with the Movies in particular Hasbro just let them be fgor a long while and then turned concept art into toys.

But generally they only say "yes", "No", "kinda OK, but...."
While before, up to Cybertron, Hasbro designed the toys and the cartoon guys went and redesigned them to work better as cartoon characters.

cagey wrote:A mix of fans doesn't imply unsophisticated, c'mon man!! And please don't make me go through the entire thread and cite all the previous multiquotes, etc. either. I regret I may have angered you on a sensitive topic, but as a senior staff member, you should probably not be so bothered so much by things other people have to say, especially a poor noob.

So wrote G1 fans where sophisticated while modern fans where a mix, implying that only sophisticated people like G1.
You didn't anger me, I just wanted to show you why it's stupid to have a preference for something in particular over something else and trying to prove it with your own biassed opinions.

Also on the topic of "senior staff member", I'm just a staff member, but like it when others think of me as just another member like anybody else, just that my name has a different colour and that I write news articles. I have no power complex and I certainly don't push my position around, just ask the other guys here.