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datguy86 wrote:Smokescreen wants to be an hero, right? Him dying makes lots of sense and doesn't cost the show the status quo too heavily.

Aside from, well, robbing the show of the best thing that's ever happened to the Autobots in it. Smokescreen's addition enhanced the status quo. Take him out and we're back to the same core protagonist team we've always had since the beginning.

Sabrblade wrote:

datguy86 wrote:Smokescreen wants to be an hero, right? Him dying makes lots of sense and doesn't cost the show the status quo too heavily.

Aside from, well, robbing the show of the best thing that's ever happened to the Autobots in it. Smokescreen's addition enhanced the status quo. Take him out and we're back to the same core protagonist team we've always had since the beginning.

There's a point we disagree on - Smokescreen is the last thing the Autobots needed. There's nothing he has done another Autobot couldn't have been used for. In my opinion, he's the sole distraction from a rather decent series of endgame fetchquests. It just feels like the writers shoehorned him in - either to take a command lead (ugh) when someone else dies or die a hero (meh).

Although if Bumblebee bites it, I could certainly deal with that. He hasn't added much to the show since he and Starscream fought over the T-Cog.

datguy86 wrote: Given the viewer doesn't see Shock die; only buried in rubble as has happened to any number of characters of the course of the series.

The last we saw of him he was walking through the space bridge, shot in the eye, and then it combusted on him. He was buried in rubble, but that wasn't the cliffhanger.

datguy86 wrote:Also, the Dinobots and Shockwave have some history, yes?

Yes.

datguy86 wrote: It just feels like the writers shoehorned him in - either to take a command lead (ugh) when someone else dies or die a hero (meh).

Or to add a new character to the fold of Autobots. Are you convinced that they show writers put new characters in for them to die in the long-run? It's a change, and I'm pretty sure you and everyone would've been bored with 65 episodes of the same 5 Autobots + Wheeljack's occasional visit.

PrymeStriker wrote:

datguy86 wrote: Given the viewer doesn't see Shock die; only buried in rubble as has happened to any number of characters of the course of the series.

The last we saw of him he was walking through the space bridge, shot in the eye, and then it combusted on him. He was buried in rubble, but that wasn't the cliffhanger.

Crap. Forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.

PrymeStriker wrote:

datguy86 wrote:Also, the Dinobots and Shockwave have some history, yes?

Yes.

datguy86 wrote: It just feels like the writers shoehorned him in - either to take a command lead (ugh) when someone else dies or die a hero (meh).

Or to add a new character to the fold of Autobots. Are you convinced that they show writers put new characters in for them to die in the long-run? It's a change, and I'm pretty sure you and everyone would've been bored with 65 episodes of the same 5 Autobots + Wheeljack's occasional visit.

You'd be surprised how often this does happen. Hell, on the Decepticon side Makeshift and Skyquake have already succumbed to it by virtue of being "villain of the week". It's easier to accept the loss of a new character than to kill off an existing character. It's one of the lessons learned from the original animated Transformers movie.

datguy86 wrote:You'd be surprised how often this does happen. Hell, on the Decepticon side Makeshift and Skyquake have already succumbed to it by virtue of being "villain of the week". It's easier to accept the loss of a new character than to kill off an existing character. It's one of the lessons learned from the original animated Transformers movie.

I'm aware it happens quite a bit, but it hasn't happened to this show yet.

The only character killed off after being established into a team is Breakdown. Skyquake, Makeshift, Cliffjumper, Hardshell, and others only stuck around for an episode or two before their deaths. At least Breakdown lasted 23 episodes before his death.

Smokescreen's been hanging around for 5 episodes so far, and nothing's gone wrong. As I said before, it would be a predictable outcome for Smokescreen to sacrifice himself to save Cybertron, him being the fourth Omega Key. However, we can't expect every new character introduced to be killed off within 10 episodes or so. Dreadwing and Knock Out are just proof of the matter.

P.S: The only reason I don't count Airachnid is because she's not technically "dead," but rather in a stasis pod.

Welp, all this Beast Hunters info and "inside Job" have pretty much made Smokescreen an Autobot. I personally detest the character and his ability to - much like some self-insertion fan character - be absofugginlutely perfect in all regards while making the rest of Team Prime all but unnecessary. At least Starscream's special brand of self-serving made the episode interesting. That and vehicon tossing.

Anyway, I have a hat to butter up and maybe add some spices to it.

datguy86 wrote:Welp, all this Beast Hunters info and "inside Job" have pretty much made Smokescreen an Autobot. I personally detest the character and his ability to - much like some self-insertion fan character - be absofugginlutely perfect in all regards while making the rest of Team Prime all but unnecessary.

Except for, you know, his failure to get the third Omega Key due to Starscream getting the drop on him, and his abduction later in the same episode. He's also cocky and reckless, and that's bound to eventually bite him in the back later. It always does with this type of character.

Sabrblade wrote:

datguy86 wrote:Welp, all this Beast Hunters info and "inside Job" have pretty much made Smokescreen an Autobot. I personally detest the character and his ability to - much like some self-insertion fan character - be absofugginlutely perfect in all regards while making the rest of Team Prime all but unnecessary.

Except for, you know, his failure to get the third Omega Key due to Starscream getting the drop on him, and his abduction later in the same episode. He's also cocky and reckless, and that's bound to eventually bite him in the back later. It always does with this type of character.

Both situations which placed Smokescreen in the apt position of escaping a Decepticon Warship with three artifacts, while simultaneously angering Megatron. On a thematic level, I know this escape is supposed to be juxtaposed against Starscream's infiltration (right down to Megs and Op screaming in rage); Starscream at least has a history of complicating situations since defecting from the 'Cons. Smokescreen just gets dropped on the planet and shows up as many Transformers as possible. If there were a toy of Smokescreen around, I could at least blame [url="http://tfwiki.net/wiki/To_sell_toys"]that phenomena[/url].

Smokescreen's failures? Blasted in the back by a vehicon while chasing after the Star Saber balanced out because he still manages to discover the location of said weapon. Gets kidnapped by Soundwave, which sets him up to retrieve the keys. The whole thing with Starscream? At Starscream's speed with Red Energon I might as well blame someone for not stopping the semi that hit them. Besides,

datguy86 wrote:At least Starscream's special brand of self-serving made the episode interesting.

Of course, Starscream could have killed Smokescreen by stabbing him in the back since that's Starscream's M.O., but hey.

I do hope you are right and his recklessness comes back to bite him, but at this point in time the fallout will be Smokescreen getting a decent character killed. Hot Rod Syndrome? We'll see.

As for the topic; the hat tasted good and Smokescreen's an Autobot.

datguy86 wrote:Both situations which placed Smokescreen in the apt position of escaping a Decepticon Warship with three artifacts, while simultaneously angering Megatron. On a thematic level, I know this escape is supposed to be juxtaposed against Starscream's infiltration (right down to Megs and Op screaming in rage); Starscream at least has a history of complicating situations since defecting from the 'Cons. Smokescreen just gets dropped on the planet and shows up as many Transformers as possible. If there were a toy of Smokescreen around, I could at least blame [url="http://tfwiki.net/wiki/To_sell_toys"]that phenomena[/url].

He only escaped the ship as easily as he did since he used the Phase Shifter. Had he not had it (like, if he wasn't wearing it when he got captured so that Knock Out wouldn't take it from him), then he'd likely still be strapped down and cut open to have the key removed, and still be there since he wouldn't be able to phase out of his restraints and the room itself. He got away because he had that deus ex machina to get himself out and without a scratch.

datguy86 wrote:Smokescreen's failures? Blasted in the back by a vehicon while chasing after the Star Saber balanced out because he still manages to discover the location of said weapon.

It was Ratchet who detected the Star Saber's location. All Smoke did was identify it. Jack contacted Ratchet who contacted the others who went after both it and Smokescreen (who got himself captured due to his brash stupidity), and Optimus went all Spider-Man scaling the mountainside to get the sword. The most significant thing Smokescreen did there was look at it and say, "That looks like the Star Saber." The rest was done by everyone else.

datguy86 wrote:Gets kidnapped by Soundwave, which sets him up to retrieve the keys.

All thanks to the Magic MacGuffinshroom that is the Phase Shifter.

datguy86 wrote:The whole thing with Starscream? At Starscream's speed with Red Energon I might as well blame someone for not stopping the semi that hit them. Besides,

datguy86 wrote:At least Starscream's special brand of self-serving made the episode interesting.

Yeah, Scream was just that conniving.

datguy86 wrote:Of course, Starscream could have killed Smokescreen by stabbing him in the back since that's Starscream's M.O., but hey.

Business before pleasure, I guess.

datguy86 wrote:I do hope you are right and his recklessness comes back to bite him, but at this point in time the fallout will be Smokescreen getting a decent character killed. Hot Rod Syndrome? We'll see.

I hope so too. So far, his rashness got him captured when going after the Star Saber, but that's it so far. He needs to make more mistakes so he can learn from them.

Though, at least he's not one of those characters that even all the other characters think is a great, oh-so-perfect, saint. That would be way too far into Gary Stu territory.

Let's avoid some wall of text:

1) Phase Shifter is mos def a Deux Ex Machina. Smokescreen's luck/skill is firmly in Gary Stu territory, though.
2) Discover on the Star Saber - you're right. I got nothing.
3) Soundwave does Taken: See point 1.

datguy86 wrote:Of course, Starscream could have killed Smokescreen by stabbing him in the back since that's Starscream's M.O., but hey.

Business before pleasure, I guess.[/quote]

That's the thing - he'd finished the business and pleasure would have been easy. Take a look at "Inside Job". If Arcee hadn't had her hand on the lever Starscream would have stabbed them all at super speed. Kind of like a drive-by knifing at ridiculous speed.

datguy86 wrote:I do hope you are right and his recklessness comes back to bite him, but at this point in time the fallout will be Smokescreen getting a decent character killed. Hot Rod Syndrome? We'll see.

I hope so too. So far, his rashness got him captured when going after the Star Saber, but that's it so far. He needs to make more mistakes so he can learn from them.

Though, at least he's not one of those characters that even all the other characters think is a great, oh-so-perfect, saint. That would be way too far into Gary Stu territory.[/quote]

There are times he's not reprimanded enough by other Autobots. And by that I mean flat out yelled at for being stupid. Arcee would the exception, seeing how she is falling into the Team Mom role. However, Team Prime is a family and Smokescreen is an outsider, so I'm not sure where Cybertronian values dictate which lines can and cannot be crossed by a non-superior officer.