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william-james88 wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:
Whoa, no one's saying you have to keep everything the same just because you upscale it.

How else would you interpret this:

fenrir72 wrote: Hb or TT just upscale them to Voyagers or something? That would have been Awesomesauce.

Thats all I was replying to.

Weren't the beasthunter things upscaled versions of the legends figures? They got modified along the way - predaking's is even hailed as being the best version of him...

Hellscream9999 wrote:Weren't the beasthunter things upscaled versions of the legends figures? They got modified along the way - predaking's is even hailed as being the best version of him...

He's still super hallow. Anyways, all I meant was that a straight up upscale would not work and you confirmed that, and yes those upscales were changed too. So any upscale would need to be reworked. I do support using the nosecone to chest transformation of the legends seekers.

william-james88 wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:Weren't the beasthunter things upscaled versions of the legends figures? They got modified along the way - predaking's is even hailed as being the best version of him...

He's still super hallow. Anyways, all I meant was that a straight up upscale would not work and you confirmed that, and yes those upscales were changed too. So any upscale would need to be reworked. I do support using the nosecone to chest transformation of the legends seekers.

Well, any figure that has the thighs-in-lower-leg conversion is going to be super hollow, that goes back all the way to G1, at least he filled them in with the hind legs as heels.

But yes, straight up-scaling doesn't necessarily yield good figures - just look at the similarly up-scaled abominationus they 'reworked' it to remove the only redeeming feature and didn't bother with the rest of the set

Wow, this thread just refuses to die. I've had the recent Leader Thundercracker in hand, and it doesn't look like a "Knock Off" at all. Hollow parts are just how things are done now, to keep production costs down and prices low. You'd probably balk at an $80 Leader class figure that was twice the price only because it was filled in with more solidified dead dinosaur juice. Anyway, I think Leader Starscream does suffer quite a bit from the shade of gray plastic used. Just like DotM Deluxe Sideswipe, he needs silver paint to really bring out the details of the sculpt. It did wonders for Leader Megatron not too long ago. Any collector who wants more bang for their buck with a large-scale seeker character needs to invest in the Masterpiece versions. You get what you pay for.

Wolfman Jake wrote:... with more solidified dead dinosaur juice.

Silly pup! This just struck my funny bone. (which is not hallow BTW) I'm really glad I've chosen to skip these Seekers. I'm also really glad I do have Jetfire. For some reason I can look past the goofiness with him. I guess what I'm saying is, thanks everybody for validating my decision.

Although for $18 dollars I could be suckered into buying Skywarp.

Well this thread is like a negative vortex where fun goes to die.

I'm here now, so I might as well piss my two cents on the floor too. I've never liked the way Leader SS looked, still don't. But... I am happy with the Thundercracker redecatool (such sexy alt mode). Might also be because I got him on discount. Can't say I'd feel quite as fuzzy at full price.

Cobotron wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:... with more solidified dead dinosaur juice.

Silly pup! This just struck my funny bone. (which is not hallow BTW)

I am happy to help us all keep things in perspective.

william-james88 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Anyway, it's done and all but the Legends Seekers using Guido Guidi's design, well, they're awesome already, couldn't Hb or TT just upscale them to Voyagers or something? That would have been Awesomesauce.

I greatly disagree and think those toys are meant to stay in Legends class. The transformation is beyond simple with a dumb looking undercarriage.


Transformers Generations Starscream Gallery

Plus the articulation on these things is atrocious. No thigh swivel (which other Legends have, like Blackjack) and nthing with the head, which is also way too small.

People often look to oversize as an answer and it rarely works well if you take a minute to really think of what this woudl entail. Here is an example of an overzised legends class type toy for Starscream and it really is more of a kids toy than a real Voyager Starsream.

That other Seeker mold looks good too. And what of the upgrade of the scale? The original G1 seeker design was even more "complex" parts forming piece o'plastic goodness (part sarcasm and adoration)

But of course upon up scaling you'll (or Hb/TT will have to) improve on the points of articulation as the limited scale also limits the features in the figure. Just put the face sculpt under the magnifying loop and compare it to the piece o' slag of the Jetfire/seeker retool The Legends version wins overall.

Slight deviation, THS-02........Awesomesauce in a Microman scale. Just imagine the possibilities if upscaled to the G1 Optimus scale and fix the atrocious vehicle mode, would make it the perfect Optimus this side of MP-10.

Seekers in my microcosm mindset are not meant to stand at equal height/scale to Jetfire

Edit: The Hb Legends Starcream already is the Boss but the TT version looks even cooler. The face paint was changed to dark gray like that of the G1 animation

Wolfman Jake wrote:Wow, this thread just refuses to die. I've had the recent Leader Thundercracker in hand, and it doesn't look like a "Knock Off" at all. Hollow parts are just how things are done now, to keep production costs down and prices low. You'd probably balk at an $80 Leader class figure that was twice the price only because it was filled in with more solidified dead dinosaur juice. Anyway, I think Leader Starscream does suffer quite a bit from the shade of gray plastic used. Just like DotM Deluxe Sideswipe, he needs silver paint to really bring out the details of the sculpt. It did wonders for Leader Megatron not too long ago. Any collector who wants more bang for their buck with a large-scale seeker character needs to invest in the Masterpiece versions. You get what you pay for.

".......dead dinosaur juice....."

fenrir72 wrote: THS-02........Awesomesauce in a Microman scale.

Who dat?

This topic's title feels like overblown hyperbole and it disgusts me. Every time it gets bumped back up. EVERY. TIME.

Optimum Supreme wrote:This topic's title feels like overblown hyperbole and it disgusts me. Every time it gets bumped back up. EVERY. TIME.

Blame Billy88

Cobotron wrote:

fenrir72 wrote: THS-02........Awesomesauce in a Microman scale.

Who dat?

Optimum Supreme wrote:This topic's title feels like overblown hyperbole and it disgusts me. Every time it gets bumped back up. EVERY. TIME.

Are you happy now?

fenrir72 wrote:Seekers in my microcosm mindset are not meant to stand at equal height/scale to Jetfire

And they dont. Those are 2 different scales Hasbro is trying to deal with here. Or else it would be nonsensical for even megatron to be bigger than galvatron and for Blaster to be bigger than Optimus. So two scales is what they are going for. There is the normal classics scale from 2006 that the Combiner Wars components still adhere to (as does Jetfire and Ultra Magnus) and then there is a second scale happening.

But that makes sense, we have a legends scale too and none of us are wondering why Legends Thundercracker is the same size as Gears and smaller than Dragstrip. It's the same thing in Leader class. Some of those toys are made to scale with the deluxes and voyagers and some are part of their own scale.

So all hasbro is doing with these seekers is maximising on mold use to use in a new leader scale that Megatron works with, as will any of the upcoming leaders that might not make sense in a classics collection like Blaster and the probable retool, Soundwave.

Edit: here are some pics to illustrate.

This:


Transformers Generations Jetfire Gallery

Scales with this


Transformers Generations Thundercracker Gallery

Not this:


Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Skywarp Gallery

Thats just a different scale, like this:

Optimum Supreme wrote:This topic's title feels like overblown hyperbole and it disgusts me. Every time it gets bumped back up. EVERY. TIME.

How is it hyperbole, that's exactly the way I felt when I saw pics of him, and felt even more so when I held the box in hand;

He is most certainly not worth $45-50+ for how hollow he/they are, and with as minimal a number of paint apps as they have - objectively speaking; if others disagree, I guess they've drank the kool-aid hasbro was serving - either that, or they really like G1 jetfire

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Optimum Supreme wrote:This topic's title feels like overblown hyperbole and it disgusts me. Every time it gets bumped back up. EVERY. TIME.

How is it hyperbole, that's exactly the way I felt when I saw pics of him, and felt even more so when I held the box in hand;

He is most certainly not worth $45-50+ for how hollow he/they are, and with as minimal a number of paint apps as they have - objectively speaking; if others disagree, I guess they've drank the kool-aid hasbro was serving - either that, or they really like G1 jetfire

Agreement achieved. You have earned 20 points!


....yet I only got 10. What the hey?

william-james88 wrote:
Transformers Generations Jetfire Gallery

Scaling will forever be the bane of Transformers collectors. Even in this group shot, not everything is correctly to scale. Bumblebee should either be the Universe 2008 Legion/Legends version or the Generations Legends version.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

william-james88 wrote:
Transformers Generations Jetfire Gallery

Scaling will forever be the bane of Transformers collectors. Even in this group shot, not everything is correctly to scale. Bumblebee should either be the Universe 2008 Legion/Legends version or the Generations Legends version.

Oh for sure. And I would personally elect the generations Legends figure. It fits well enough. But my point was just to illustrate where Jetfire was meant to fit and that it was not amongst the leader seekers.

I think the title should change back, it was more honest. For his size, Jetfire does feel like a KO. If you payed more than 20 bucks for him, you got ripped off and you should feel disgusted.

If you are okay with that, well, I've got some swamp land to sell you.

Ironhidensh wrote:I think the title should change back, it was more honest. For his size, Jetfire does feel like a KO. If you payed more than 20 bucks for him, you got ripped off and you should feel disgusted.

If you are okay with that, well, I've got some swamp land to sell you.

I agree about the title - except perhaps work in the seekers too, as they seem to be bearing the brunt of hasbro's greed;

As for the swamp land, I'll trade you a bridge I've been tryin' to sell for it

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:I think the title should change back, it was more honest. For his size, Jetfire does feel like a KO. If you payed more than 20 bucks for him, you got ripped off and you should feel disgusted.

If you are okay with that, well, I've got some swamp land to sell you.

I agree about the title - except perhaps work in the seekers too, as they seem to be bearing the brunt of hasbro's greed;

As for the swamp land, I'll trade you a bridge I've been tryin' to sell for it

A bridge, huh? I'm intrigued, as long as there are no duragrips trolls underneath. You have to feed them, and that gets expensive.

On topic, I paid $20 for Jetfire, and at that price, he is okay, but still leaves me with niggling doubts. The one that really posses me off is Ultra Magnus. I paid full price for him, and while looking amazing, he feels like a cheap piece of scrap.

I notice people saying that these figures "feel cheap." That's not to say that something IS cheap (as in not a quality product), though. Transformers mass market toys are a lot lighter now than they were a few years ago, it's true. The plastic used has gotten lighter and thinner, but that doesn't mean its substantially (or really any) less durable or resilient. Toy making technology and technique is constantly evolving. We're not making Transformers out of diecast parts anymore either. That trend didn't even last through the entirety of Generation 1. In a product that spans so many years on the toy shelves, changes are going to happen, for all sorts of reasons, but don't conflate in manufacturing with a drop in quality or value. Consider all the hardware revisions video game consoles go through (that you don't even see on the outside) that don't depreciate the experience for the user for their proprietary software. Again, that's not ALWAYS the case, but it's more often true than not, and I think current Transformers product deserve a similarly more nuanced approach in our critiques of them.

Wolfman Jake wrote: Toy making technology and technique is constantly evolving. We're not making Transformers out of diecast parts anymore either. That trend didn't even last through the entirety of Generation 1.

Excellent points. And I am glad you brought this up because it seems there is this false revisionist history happening amongst fans with G1 toys and the use of die cast. The diecast was not as predominant as many believe. All figures are mostly made of plastic with usually just the chest area being die cast (insecticons and seekers). The most die cast you would find is the car shell of some of the autobots but all in all even diecast wasnt used that much. And plus, pricing wise, TFs have stayed the same price but increased in size.

I am still not forgiving charging 45$ for the seeker leader retool though I was more than happy to pay 30$ for Jetfire. I think he has such a beautiful design. While the hallowness and the plastic feel isn't great, they definitely didnt cheap out on style

Ironhidensh wrote:

Hellscream9999 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:I think the title should change back, it was more honest. For his size, Jetfire does feel like a KO. If you payed more than 20 bucks for him, you got ripped off and you should feel disgusted.

If you are okay with that, well, I've got some swamp land to sell you.

I agree about the title - except perhaps work in the seekers too, as they seem to be bearing the brunt of hasbro's greed;

As for the swamp land, I'll trade you a bridge I've been tryin' to sell for it

A bridge, huh? I'm intrigued, as long as there are no duragrips trolls underneath. You have to feed them, and that gets expensive.

On topic, I paid $20 for Jetfire, and at that price, he is okay, but still leaves me with niggling doubts. The one that really posses me off is Ultra Magnus. I paid full price for him, and while looking amazing, he feels like a cheap piece of scrap.

I would've been happy paying $20 for either jetfire or starscream (the crown fixes his stupid head for me)

But I agree 1000% about magnus. Both of mines legs snapped internally just from trying to transform it - in two different magnus' - that is some weak plastic

...And that was nothing compared to the flimsiness of the side panels, accidentally almost snapped one in half when I was trying to figure out his legs - not to mention the absolute bare bones paint job

It's got nothing to do with a lack of die-cast. They flat out feel cheap, and they are.

L [k at it this way, I've given my sons (almost 2 and almost 3) a lot of my Unicorn Trilogy toys to play with. I've as given them some of the newer RiD and generations figures, and the one and only Prime toy I threw money away on. It keeps them off the toys i actually care about. As much as I despise the Unicorn Trilogy stuff, it's still holding up, no broken parts. Anything I've given them that was made in, let's say the last five years has broken, and broke fast, like within the first hour.

The quality has gone downhill, but prices have gone up.