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5150 Cruiser wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:Ironhide had character development? What? All the robots in the films (and most Transformer franchises, pretty much only excluding Animated and a little Rodimus in G1) have gotten no development at all.

Ignorance is bliss...

I'd go into detail about thier detail, but if you haven't goten it at this point then you either won't get it, or are refusing to see it.

im sorry but this is one of the most condescending posts i have seen in any forum in a long time.

Ironhide's character development went from aggressive, shoot first ask questions military character too shoot first ....

and the proof of this. look at his lines. the few that he has, how can one say that he has development when his dialogue is limited to reaction lines.

im with shamone on this. i think people are confusing behaviour with devolopment. ironhide being aggressive is behavior. finding out why he is aggressive is development.

the twins acting the way they do is behaviour, finding out why they act the way they do is development...

frikken huge difference...

the debate isnt that the TFs dont have character, its that thier characters are one dimensional...

I also believe Ironhide will die in DOTM. Specifically I believe he will shot by Shockwave. Possibly whenever Shockwave is first introduced to the autobots he takes a cheap shot at Ironhide with his laser gun arm thing. Also I noticed in the pictures of the super bowl commercial (posted one below), specifically the scenes of optimus flying over where shockwave is spotted, you can see Ratchet and Bumblebee fighting the cons but you don't see Ironhide. I'm wondering if he died already and maybe thats why bumblebee was so upset in the trailer. But he could also just be fighting somewhere else.

shamone and shadowynne ,

I'm going to have to disagree with both of you. Problem is, if you need a complete back story on each Tf for them to have development, then nearly no TF in any universe from G1 to the movies have had what you define as development. In the case of Ironhide, your correct. He is the "Shoot first, ask questions later" kind of warrior. You don't need to be told that. His actions define it.
I will agree that more dialog would have been better. That point I'm not arguing. But for all intents and purposes, Ironhide has been a warrior, and this is what he was portrayed as. We don't need a huge back story as to why he became one to get that point across is all I'm saying.

Oh and shamone,
I should note that my comment that you quoted above was not entirely directed at Ironhide's character. As i said, i believe there are more than a few characters in the movies that had development. Some more than others, and admittedly, some not at all.

5150 Cruiser wrote:shamone and shadowynne ,

I'm going to have to disagree with both of you. Problem is, if you need a complete back story on each Tf for them to have development, then nearly no TF in any universe from G1 to the movies have had what you define as development. In the case of Ironhide, your correct. He is the "Shoot first, ask questions later" kind of warrior. You don't need to be told that. His actions define it.
I will agree that more dialog would have been better. That point I'm not arguing. But for all intents and purposes, Ironhide has been a warrior, and this is what he was portrayed as. We don't need a huge back story as to why he became one to get that point across is all I'm saying.

Oh and shamone,
I should note that my comment that you quoted above was not entirely directed at Ironhide's character. As i said, i believe there are more than a few characters in the movies that had development. Some more than others, and admittedly, some not at all.

i was not saying that development was needed. but i find it hard to believe that you can argue that there was development.

what development was there, considering each character had three to four lines, which were either exposition or inane jokes.

the robots were given one line characters, and dialogue to reflect this. essentially it was like armaggeddon, each character in that was the same, one not and no development.

thats fine if thats what you want. i would rather fewer bot and cons with more screen time and dialogue for those that were in it

5150 Cruiser wrote:shamone and shadowynne ,

I'm going to have to disagree with both of you. Problem is, if you need a complete back story on each Tf for them to have development, then nearly no TF in any universe from G1 to the movies have had what you define as development. In the case of Ironhide, your correct. He is the "Shoot first, ask questions later" kind of warrior. You don't need to be told that. His actions define it.
I will agree that more dialog would have been better. That point I'm not arguing. But for all intents and purposes, Ironhide has been a warrior, and this is what he was portrayed as. We don't need a huge back story as to why he became one to get that point across is all I'm saying.

Oh and shamone,
I should note that my comment that you quoted above was not entirely directed at Ironhide's character. As i said, i believe there are more than a few characters in the movies that had development. Some more than others, and admittedly, some not at all.

i was not saying that development was needed. but i find it hard to believe that you can argue that there was development.

what development was there, considering each character had three to four lines, which were either exposition or inane jokes.

the robots were given one line characters, and dialogue to reflect this. essentially it was like armaggeddon, each character in that was the same, one not and no development.

thats fine if thats what you want. i would rather fewer bot and cons with more screen time and dialogue for those that were in it

I'm bummed Ironhide died.He was supposed to be the strong warrior that overcame his enemies.Sure, he went down like a pussy.But he just...Completes the team.Now it's only Optimus
and a few zippy fast guys.

I was saddened that Ironhide died...BUT...I, as a fan, marked out by it, since they did it in a fashion obviously mirroring his death in 86's movie. Im surprised no one has mentioned this

Jacksonbot wrote:Sure, he went down like a pussy.

I absolutely disagree. He was shot in the back twice by perhaps the physically most dominating character in all 3 movies. Seriously, 1 on 1, Sentinel could take any single Bayverse Bot or Con he was matched with, even the Fallen. Maybe only Jet Optimus from the end of RotF would stand a chance. Also, he was shot in the back by someone he completely trusted and revered. If anyone is a pussy in that situation, it's Sentinel for being a back fighter. I wonder what would have happened had Sentinel faced Ironhide, Bumblebee, Sideswipe, Dino, and the human soldiers face-to-face. I think he might have gotten whipped. Or held up long enough for Prime to get there.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Jacksonbot wrote:Sure, he went down like a pussy.

I absolutely disagree. He was shot in the back twice by perhaps the physically most dominating character in all 3 movies. Seriously, 1 on 1, Sentinel could take any single Bayverse Bot or Con he was matched with, even the Fallen. Maybe only Jet Optimus from the end of RotF would stand a chance. Also, he was shot in the back by someone he completely trusted and revered. If anyone is a pussy in that situation, it's Sentinel for being a back fighter. I wonder what would have happened had Sentinel faced Ironhide, Bumblebee, Sideswipe, Dino, and the human soldiers face-to-face. I think he might have gotten whipped. Or held up long enough for Prime to get there.

Agreed completely.