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I'm going to put a very long and frustrating story short as I can because I'd like advice on what to do.

Part 1: The Problem
1. I live in Singapore. My wife visited the States so I ordered two Leader Brawls and got them to send to her, specifying her hotel and when she was arriving (4th October)

2. On 1st of October the items were recorded as delivered. Up to the time she left the hotel she hadn't received it, so the hotel concierge finally tracked that UPS had sent it to one of their centres, where it was left to rot.

3. My wife returned home empty handed. I wrote to Target specifying all the points, the main underlying one being that UPS screwed up what was a very straightforward delivery. Therefore UPS should make reparation by sending the parcels to Singapore. Since Target used UPS, I asked customer service to facilitate this. I also wanted them to find out why the devil did they not do as they were told to send to the addressee.

Part 2: The Runaround

1. Target sends me a form letter, with all the usual drivel such as "I'm sorry for the trouble with your order xxxxxxx. I know how frustrating it can be when an item doesn't work out." and "Would you still like us to send a replacement, or should we give you a refund instead?"

2. I wrote back to say I understood they didn't ship overseas, which is why I made the arrangements I did. Straightforward delivery screwed up by UPS, UPS fix it. I mentioned that I'd not cancelled my order even though Hasbrotoyshop had the very next day started a 25% off all TFs + free shipping because I wanted to be fair. I asked in return fair resolution: facilitate UPS delivering ordered items to Singapore. In other words, make an exception because it was the right thing to do.

3. I get another bullshit form letter that's an obvious template, addressing none of the points I made about the circumstances of my order and the UPS screwup and reparation requested.

" Firstly I apologize for all the inconvenience this situation may have caused to you.

I have completely researched your order and found that it was shipped by UPS.


Unfortunately we will not be able to get in touch with the carrier once the order is shipped.


However, you can always call them at (800) PICK UPS (742-5877) and give them your tracking number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We're always looking at ways to make Target.com even better and your comments are a big help to us. I'll make sure to share them with the right team.

Thanks for getting in touch with us. I hope you'll visit us again soon."

4. At this point it's clear to me that they don't have a real person reading each complaint and responding to each in its own merits. I was very angry and wrote in telling them to give me a real person who would be bothered to address my e-mail point for point instead of giving the bullshit runaround.

5. I get this response.
Dear Lindsey Ruffin,

I am sorry for all the inconvenience caused regarding the delivery of the orders #yyyyyyyyyyyy and #xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Please note that as we informed you earleir, we'll not be able to replace these orders to Singapore due to our shipping restrictions.

However, if you can provide any of another US address, we'll be able to replace both the orders to the new address, but we need you to call us first, if you prefer to do this. We just want to make sure that you're the one requesting the change.

Call us at (800) 591-3869 any time. Be sure to have your credit card number handy, because this is how we'll verify your identity.

Instead if you prefer a refund, we can refund you for total of both the orders as #yyyyyyyyyyyyyy for $35.99 and #xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for $84.94.

Would you still like us to send a replacement, or should we give you a refund instead? Please use the link below to let us know.

{MOREINFO_LINK}

I know how frustrating it can be when the order doesn't work out, and I'm sorry for the trouble with your order.

Thank you for contacting us. We look forward to hearing from you.


Best regards,

Sailaja

Part 3: The Cry for Help
At this point it is ultra clear to me that I am not going to be able to go through the usual customer service system. There isn’t a real person responding at all, or else they have a program that allows them to do batch responses.

Firstly, I have no idea who “Lindsey Ruffin” is. Obvious clue to an automated template at work.
Secondly, I have no idea what order #yyyyyyyyyyyyy is. I only made order #xxxxxxxxxx. Another obvious clue to me that they aren’t responding individually.

What advice can anyone give me? I’d really appreciate some help here. I’m really frustrated here and want fair resolution, but it seems like it’s not even a real person at the other end able to address each point I make, beyond just giving me stock answers.

I'm suprised they sent it to a hotel. Usually those kind of orders get cancelled since Amazon setup Target's online system. Problem is with chains like Target- they are taught if they see overseas orders to throw up a red flag. I dont mind re-shipping it for you- I go to the Post Office often and I have shipped to Canada, UK, Singapore and Japan.

You can also get a mail forwarding address- most are located in Doral, Florida. Target won't ship it overseas no matter how much they screwed up. Sorry to hear that.

UPS has online intercept so getting in contact is not an issue- its just lazyness or lack of knowlege.

Here's a link so you can get a mail forwarding address in the US.

http://usa.transexpress.com/

Sounds like you need to go through UPS. I'm not sure why you expect Target to ship more.

Lapse Of Reason wrote:Sounds like you need to go through UPS. I'm not sure why you expect Target to ship more.

There is no way I can contact UPS. I wanted Target to facilitate finding out why the screwup, and secondly the arrangement. And I'm not asking them to ship more, but to get their agent (in this case UPS) to find out where the hell the items are, and then do the right things to rectify their screwup, i.e. forward them to me. That's what pisses me off. I'm not holding Target responsible for the screwup, but their agent.

When I ship goods to my customers and something goes wrong, I don't expect to throw them the tracking number and say good luck, particularly if they are overseas. Far easier for me to contact the shippers I use here, as well as cheaper for me, than for my overseas customers.

Finally the snapping straws are none of my concerns addressed directly, but glossed over with stock responses.

****... that sound frustrating as HELL. I HATE it when companies respond with obvious templates and don't even address your questions till you've grinded your teeth to dust, and have exchange 20 e-mails with an automated e-mail system.

Anyway looks like you are stuck till you phone them.

The best way out is refund. It's not a satisfying resolution. But at least, don't let the matter drag on. It consumes your time, patience, and resources. In the end, they don't really care that one customer was not well taken care of. Their attention is focused on bigger number of customers. One customer does not merit extra effort.

Most big companies works that way.

Never thought Target would ship to a hotel....

i think theyve offered all they can on this one - to correc a mistake that wasnt theirs they have offered to ship to anothr US address or refund the money.
They have stated that they will not ship overseas presumably their contract with UPS means they cannot.

You are asking for something taht is way in excess of the origonal agreement.
bitch and moan all you want but because of a mistake made by UPS targets situation and your situation are too differnt to be reconcilable now and you should just accept the refund

Yeah, I gotta agree with MegaDave. You're asking them to do something beyond what they're obligated to do and what they feasibly can do. Also, while ideally they'd love to be able to handle each customer's problems individually, they really can't while still responding to your messages and everyone else's in a timely manner.
They gave you the options, refund or different item, so go ahead and take the refund.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

Lapse Of Reason wrote:Sounds like you need to go through UPS. I'm not sure why you expect Target to ship more.

There is no way I can contact UPS. I wanted Target to facilitate finding out why the screwup, and secondly the arrangement. And I'm not asking them to ship more, but to get their agent (in this case UPS) to find out where the hell the items are, and then do the right things to rectify their screwup, i.e. forward them to me. That's what pisses me off. I'm not holding Target responsible for the screwup, but their agent.

When I ship goods to my customers and something goes wrong, I don't expect to throw them the tracking number and say good luck, particularly if they are overseas. Far easier for me to contact the shippers I use here, as well as cheaper for me, than for my overseas customers.

Finally the snapping straws are none of my concerns addressed directly, but glossed over with stock responses.

I totally agree with you on this one BC27. Target.com should take majority of responsibility for choosing an incompetent shipping company. After they have corrected this mis-shipment, they can bitch-slap UPS all they want.

I hope at the end of all this you will get the toys delivered to your hot little hands. If I were you I would stand up and fight until my last breath as well. Accepting the refund offer will falsely make Target.com and UPS think that they successfully "resolved" another customer service issue. In fact they did not! it's like saying "Here's your money back, we don't want your business". That's not customer service, that's customer screwice!

Anyway hopefully all things will work out at the end for you and please keep us updated.

Cheers,
Coolpop

Izanami wrote:Yeah, I gotta agree with MegaDave. You're asking them to do something beyond what they're obligated to do and what they feasibly can do. Also, while ideally they'd love to be able to handle each customer's problems individually, they really can't while still responding to your messages and everyone else's in a timely manner.
They gave you the options, refund or different item, so go ahead and take the refund.

Maybe I'm not making my main gripe clear. I knew posting this there were bound to be a few people to go the "too bad for you" route. Have you read the above exchange? Being fobbed off, given the runaround with bullshit templates and outrightly dissed as evinced by even the wrong name to my e-mail.

I'd have let it rest if it was a real operator telling me they couldn't do such and such and why, showing that at least my points had been read and considered. To have them glossed over is one thing, but to be looped via their automated system with broken-record responses is another.

Obligated to do is one thing, feasible to do is another. If everyone went by the "obligated to do" there'd be no need to talk about level of customer service. I've had less exasperation and unhappiness dealing with rude sellers because at least I knew it was a real person dissing me, being lazy, even outrightly hostile and belligerent.

As I wrote in my response to Lapse of Reason, I wanted Target to facilitate finding out why the screwup, and how to make reparation. Certainly easier for them to do than for me. I've worked in postal service before; believe me having UPS sending the shipment to me would be negligible in cost to them. I would expect at the very least for Target to find out if UPS is willing to do this. Their responses show no indication that my main points were even registered, let alone considered.

What is the point of telling customers their queries will be answered within 24 hours, when they way they accomplish that is to run them through an automated system of BS responses that don't directly address customer concerns?

You can trivialise this as "moaning", "whining" or "bitching" if you want. You have that right. As others have advised I will probably have to take the refund route. But I would still appreciate any useful responses to my main question: how to get past this wall of automated BS to a real person. This cannot be called customer service.

I don't see it as moaning or whining. I can feel all the trouble you've been going thru.

But sometimes, justice just can't prevail.

I prefer you not lose more than you already have.

Another big problem is UPS does not give a rat's ass about your package either. I saw many a thread describing how their employees play soccer with the packages (literally).

So not only are you getting no help from Target, you will not get any from UPS either unfortunately.

It's not that "get a refund" is the easy answer...it's the answer that will get this problem out of your hair and allow you to look for your TFs elsewhere (preferably from a seller that will be able to get the items to you without a hitch)

So I'll add mine in there as well....get a refund and be done with them.

that sucks man. and it can be frustrating as hell. dealing with 'customer service' makes me want to break something most of the time (the exception begin sideshow collectible...they are pretty first class).

it sounds like you aren't going to be able to get thru anymore than you already have especially not with ups. the shipping companies for the most part don't care about your stuff unless it means a major lawsuit. they handle and insane amount of volume. loss happens but trying to get anyone on the phone to give you a straight answer is pointless. i had luck once because i was able to get the shipper to call ups and have it rerouted. i do my best to avoid fed ex at all costs.

as far as 'templates' in emails, that's exactly what they are. target doesn't want each operator rep having to come with what to say. they have a form and cut and paste the relevant parts. that way all emails, statements, etc are policy and toe the company line. you don't get reps, who are people, and may or may not be swayed by your problem promising outrageous things they can't or won't be able to follow thru on. which would make the customer angrier, etc. it sucks but take the refund. they aren't going to 'make an exception' and deliver overseas, etc. i'm impressed target offered one up that quickly. it seems they want to handle it the best way they can. jump all over it and get your cash back while you can.

I do understand your frustration with all the runaround. I actually rarely order from Amazon.com because of a similar situation and poor customer service (and when you do call someone, you get someone out in India).

Anyway, it is a shame but as I said earlier - what do you realy expect Target to do? I know what you want them to do, but it is time to be realistic. Small stores charge more but take care of their customers (BBTS, TFSource, most eBay sellers, etc...) yet people complain about the higher prices. Big retailers like Target care more about selling in volume and one little guy upset over a shipping screwup means nothing to them. Trust me - they are doing nothing to help you and the best you will get is a refund.

Lapse Of Reason wrote:I do understand your frustration with all the runaround. I actually rarely order from Amazon.com because of a similar situation and poor customer service (and when you do call someone, you get someone out in India).

Anyway, it is a shame but as I said earlier - what do you realy expect Target to do? I know what you want them to do, but it is time to be realistic. Small stores charge more but take care of their customers (BBTS, TFSource, most eBay sellers, etc...) yet people complain about the higher prices.

I guess that's a moot point now isn't it? What I expect them to do has become apparent isn't what most people seem to think should be the case, or deemed unreasonable or beyond obligation.

What I expected them to do was the same thing I do for my customers when the same thing happens...

1. Read my customer's complaint/ feedback, and respond as a real person.
2. Contact UPS to find out why wasn't package delivered as addressed, but left to rot at a centre for days.
3. Ask if UPS can send that on to Singapore for service recovery. Probably an alien/ obscure term here.
4. If not, get back to me and say sorry, this is what happened, UPS won't do it, we can refund your money or send it to another address in the States.
5. End of this customer enquiry.

...and we are a small operation compared to Target!

I sure didn't expect this automated, broken record, stock crapola from a large company. It's easy to conclude that large, faceless American companies suck, etc, etc compared to say, Japanese companies when it comes to customer service. My shock at being dealt with this way comes because I am not a believer of that. Most of the quality service literature has come out of the States! I mean, we paid Ron Kaufman two thousand dollars a day for a series of seminars here!

And speaking of Amazon, in my experience they have been great with customer service. I had problems 3 times (out of many countless transactions) and each time they addressed my points and did the right thing. At least someone real read the e-mail and responded in kind. I like writing in numbered point form; one guy even responded to my e-mail in similar fashion.

Haven't had any problems with Amazon so far. Except for a slight dent on the box of one of my TF toys.

cancel the order dude, sounds like you were trying to pull off something way too difficult.

damn that sux.

I'm honestly surprised they even agreed to deliver to a hotel. Usually companies will only ship to the billing address of the credit card used in the purchase.

sucks that you're getting the runaround, but personally I'd take the money and run.

Seems like the best thing to do is just grab the refund. You kinda loop-hooled target on their policy not to ship overseas.
Its not their fault the hotel didn't deliver the package to your wife's room, or that she didn't track it down at the hotel.
If they delivered it there on time, they fulfilled their obligation. Be happy with the refund

infinite wrote: Its not their fault the hotel didn't deliver the package to your wife's room, or that she didn't track it down at the hotel.
If they delivered it there on time, they fulfilled their obligation. Be happy with the refund

One last time, because I think many people still don't get it.

1. Target uses USPS: USPS doesn't deliver to the hotel as addressed in simple and clear cut English on the box. They send it to their Minneapolis collection centre, where for whatever reason it is left to rot.

2. I'm not asking Target for a refund, for them to resend, etc. I understand the screw up wasn't theirs, but USPS. I was asking them to facilitate the process of: a) asking their agent USPS what happened, and b) asking USPS to make what I deem a very reasonable amend.

3. Most of all, I couldn't care less if their reply to me was a FUVM, but at least do it with a real person. Don't take customers for idiots who don't know the difference between a real person and an automated system, designed to check subject headings and e-mail bodies for key words, then generate responses and create an endless loops that gets the customer nowhere no matter what he says or what his individual situation is. Except for a few people on this thread, no one else seems to think this is a problem or reason for a piss off, so hey, maybe it's just me getting shafted and feeling the pain.

To conclude, I have taken your advice, asked Target for a refund, in these terms

"Thank you for proving that you aren't bothering to read individual e-mails and addressing individual points. My name is not Lindsey Ruffin, but it's good material to propagate throughout the net anyway to illustrate Target's customer service.

Refund my money please."

To which I get:

" Dear Bonecrusher27,

"First, please allow me to express my sincere apologies for any frustration that has been caused. It is certainly not our intention for our customers to have anything but a pleasant experience at our store.

"At this point, I can only assume that your package was lost during shipping, as per request, so I'm issuing a refund including any shipping and handling charges.

"A $84.94 credit should go through to your card within the next 10 business days.

"We know you count on more than just great products from Target.com, and that reliable delivery is just as important. I'm sorry for any trouble or disappointment.

"Please be assured that this is not a typical Target.com experience and in no way did we intend for this to happen. I hope that you will give us another opportunity to prove the quality of our service to you.

"How Did We Do?
"Please let us know if this e-mail resolved your question:

"If yes, click here:
http://www.target.com/rsvp-y?comm_id=rxceyeqa3296727330
If not, click here:
http://www.target.com/rsvp-n?comm_id=rxceyeqa3296727330


"Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept
incoming e-mail. "

The exact form letter I received last year for another problem that wasn't resolved.

What can one say to that? You just can't win.

I dont know if you know how things work here. But this really has nothing to do with Target. Target wont take any liability for it so you are wasting your time.

Your fight is with UPS.

If it has happened more than once or twice I'd say stop shopping with them. As a younger gentleman I used to work for a corporation called DSG that owned different chain stores, one of which was a computer store. A customer had a laptop that was overheating and scorching her dining table, then losing all power. Our tech support told her to put a newspaper under it for a month and see if that stopped the problem. When I learnt of this I sorted out a refund and everything but when she told me this was her seventh issue, I had to ask her, "Why are you still shopping with us?" Seriously, if they mess you around that much, shop elsewhere!

Toyotus Superion wrote:I dont know if you know how things work here. But this really has nothing to do with Target. Target wont take any liability for it so you are wasting your time.

Your fight is with UPS.

Yes thank you I am beginning to get it through my thick skull that customer service, going the extra mile, service recovery, up your service etc is just a very unrealistic and unreasonable expectation on my part, created because of all the American books and guru seminars on customer service we pay thousands for just to teach our people customer service over here.

In my opinion, if UPS was chosen by the customer, then yes, your fight is with UPS.

If UPS was chosen by Target, then the responsibility lies squarely with Target. No excuses.