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Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon (but now it's not!)

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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Requiem Prime » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:10 am

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Uncommon wrote:I would have thought the best way to fight the third-party toys is to actually compete with them.

Well, this is easier. Trying to one-up against 3rd parties would be a losing battle. They got Hasbro's budget limits and QC beat with higher pricing and limited runs.

It's a little sad Hasbro/Fun Pub decided to stop being cool about it. Outside the MP line, (which Hasbro doesn't tap half as often as Takara) 3rd parties pretty much are the adult collector's line. Moreso really, because most stuff is tailored to join Classics shelves.

I can't say I see why they have to take an all or nothing approach.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Requiem Prime » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:13 am

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Requiem Prime wrote:It's a little sad Hasbro/Fun Pub decided to stop being cool about it. Outside the MP line, (which Hasbro doesn't tap half as often as Takara) 3rd parties pretty much are the adult collector's line. Moreso really, because most stuff is tailored to join Classics shelves.

Unless they announce they're creating a TF Elite line or something to do just that.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Mindmaster » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:15 am

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Requiem Prime wrote:
Requiem Prime wrote:It's a little sad Hasbro/Fun Pub decided to stop being cool about it. Outside the MP line, (which Hasbro doesn't tap half as often as Takara) 3rd parties pretty much are the adult collector's line. Moreso really, because most stuff is tailored to join Classics shelves.

Unless they announce they're creating a TF Elite line or something to do just that.


I'd go for that.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby metaphorge » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:16 am

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Requiem Prime wrote:I can't say I see why they have to take an all or nothing approach.
Because many large corporations are run by inherently unimaginative people?

Just look at the recording industry.

I imagine Hasbro is particularly susceptible since they seem to want to transform themselves from being a toy company to being an intellectual property company since the manufacture of mass-market (see also: inexpensive) toys is rapidly becoming unsustainable due to labor and transportation costs continuing to spiral out of control.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Almagnus1 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:36 am

I hope we can get a good, indepth explanation for this at BotCon.

Also, someone needs to ask Hasbro why they don't have an line aimed at the adult collector.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:39 am

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FracturedKoi wrote:I can understand wanting to protect your property, IP, or whatnot, but to restrict fans enjoyment, creativity, enthusiasm, and fun at a convention for the fans is going a bit too far.


You're not totally getting it. It's not the fan art itself that's banned, it's selling it. Giving it away should be perfectly fine, as long as the artist don't earn money from Hasbro's IP without a license. That includes paid commissions.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby AdamPrime » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:44 am

You know what bugs me?

Hasbro stomp on 3rd party, unlicensed or unofficial works because they receive no benefit (read: money) from the sale of such things. The other party is profiting from Hasbro's characters and established efforts.

So, how is selling second-hand toys any better? Hasbro don't see a cent from the thousands of dollars that changes hands for old toys - be it Armada, Beast Wars, a MISB Fort Max or Galaxy Shuttle. What is happening is the same, dealers are making money (sometimes, a LOT of money) from Hasbro's intellectual property.

So why allow it? What's the difference between a box of G1 figures, and a handpainted picture of a G1 character, say. Both will change hands for money. Hasbro will not receive any profit. Should toy dealers apply for licenses now, or be banned from selling?
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:48 am

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AdamPrime wrote:You know what bugs me?

Hasbro stomp on 3rd party, unlicensed or unofficial works because they receive no benefit (read: money) from the sale of such things. The other party is profiting from Hasbro's characters and established efforts.

So, how is selling second-hand toys any better? Hasbro don't see a cent from the thousands of dollars that changes hands for old toys - be it Armada, Beast Wars, a MISB Fort Max or Galaxy Shuttle. What is happening is the same, dealers are making money (sometimes, a LOT of money) from Hasbro's intellectual property.

So why allow it? What's the difference between a box of G1 figures, and a handpainted picture of a G1 character, say. Both will change hands for money. Hasbro will not receive any profit. Should toy dealers apply for licenses now, or be banned from selling?


Totally different story. Hasbro already has your money (actually, the money from the store buying their stock) from way back when the 2nd hand toys were first bought. Do you see other companies suing stores that deal in 2nd hand items? No. It's basic economics with the supplier not being a company, but an individual, a middleman as it were. Perfectly legal, as the original product was still bought from Hasbro. If it was stolen along the way however, only then you'd have a problem.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Dorkimus » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:58 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
AdamPrime wrote:You know what bugs me?

Hasbro stomp on 3rd party, unlicensed or unofficial works because they receive no benefit (read: money) from the sale of such things. The other party is profiting from Hasbro's characters and established efforts.

So, how is selling second-hand toys any better? Hasbro don't see a cent from the thousands of dollars that changes hands for old toys - be it Armada, Beast Wars, a MISB Fort Max or Galaxy Shuttle. What is happening is the same, dealers are making money (sometimes, a LOT of money) from Hasbro's intellectual property.

So why allow it? What's the difference between a box of G1 figures, and a handpainted picture of a G1 character, say. Both will change hands for money. Hasbro will not receive any profit. Should toy dealers apply for licenses now, or be banned from selling?


Totally different story. Hasbro already has your money (actually, the money from the store buying their stock) from way back when the 2nd hand toys were first bought. Do you see other companies suing stores that deal in 2nd hand items? No. It's basic economics with the supplier not being a company, but an individual, a middleman as it were. Perfectly legal.


Actually some game companies tried to stop people from re-selling their games. Some suggested making the games kind of a console bound. Meaning that once you put the game inside your console it is registered to that particular console only and basically you couldn't sell it forward. But I think that this didn't quite work. Don't remember all the details, but I guess it was against some laws and such.

So you might say that at least some big companies would try to change this thing if they could. Would hastak do the same? Hopefully we'll never know.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Autobot032 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:05 pm

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Well, this further proves that Hasbro is TRYING to alienate their fanbase.

This is ridiculous. Can you honestly tell me that fan artists are damaging their bottom line? No. If you try, then you're just drinking the kool aid and won't listen to reason.

Banning 3rd party stuff? Okay. I get it.
Banning the sales of fan art, after it was allowed for ALL these years? No. Sorry, I don't get it.

I think Hasbro's trying to crush Botcon. Make it unappealing, so they can focus on their multimedia and drop the toys and all...altogether.

Mark my words. There will be a day when TFs are a property and nothing else. No toys. Zip.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:05 pm

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Dorkimus wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
AdamPrime wrote:You know what bugs me?

Hasbro stomp on 3rd party, unlicensed or unofficial works because they receive no benefit (read: money) from the sale of such things. The other party is profiting from Hasbro's characters and established efforts.

So, how is selling second-hand toys any better? Hasbro don't see a cent from the thousands of dollars that changes hands for old toys - be it Armada, Beast Wars, a MISB Fort Max or Galaxy Shuttle. What is happening is the same, dealers are making money (sometimes, a LOT of money) from Hasbro's intellectual property.

So why allow it? What's the difference between a box of G1 figures, and a handpainted picture of a G1 character, say. Both will change hands for money. Hasbro will not receive any profit. Should toy dealers apply for licenses now, or be banned from selling?


Totally different story. Hasbro already has your money (actually, the money from the store buying their stock) from way back when the 2nd hand toys were first bought. Do you see other companies suing stores that deal in 2nd hand items? No. It's basic economics with the supplier not being a company, but an individual, a middleman as it were. Perfectly legal.


Actually some game companies tried to stop people from re-selling their games. Some suggested making the games kind of a console bound. Meaning that once you put the game inside your console it is registered to that particular console only and basically you couldn't sell it forward. But I think that this didn't quite work. Don't remember all the details, but I guess it was against some laws and such.


Really? Never heard of that story.

My guess is that is to prevent software piracy, as I can imagine it's pretty easy to copy games onto a blank cartridge or disk if you have the right equipment. With us in the Netherlands we're pretty strict on software sales: exchange within 24 hours, or if it has a one-use activation code, no exchange at all.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Megatron Wolf » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:05 pm

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well if their goal is to alienate people its working, they're going to lose a fair amount of people because of this and everything else they're pulling these days. Seems hasbros finally found their god complex.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:14 pm

So lame.

Question: how big is artist's alley at Botcon? How big will this affect the con?
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Torgon02 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:18 pm

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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Dorkimus wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
AdamPrime wrote:You know what bugs me?

Hasbro stomp on 3rd party, unlicensed or unofficial works because they receive no benefit (read: money) from the sale of such things. The other party is profiting from Hasbro's characters and established efforts.

So, how is selling second-hand toys any better? Hasbro don't see a cent from the thousands of dollars that changes hands for old toys - be it Armada, Beast Wars, a MISB Fort Max or Galaxy Shuttle. What is happening is the same, dealers are making money (sometimes, a LOT of money) from Hasbro's intellectual property.

So why allow it? What's the difference between a box of G1 figures, and a handpainted picture of a G1 character, say. Both will change hands for money. Hasbro will not receive any profit. Should toy dealers apply for licenses now, or be banned from selling?


Totally different story. Hasbro already has your money (actually, the money from the store buying their stock) from way back when the 2nd hand toys were first bought. Do you see other companies suing stores that deal in 2nd hand items? No. It's basic economics with the supplier not being a company, but an individual, a middleman as it were. Perfectly legal.


Actually some game companies tried to stop people from re-selling their games. Some suggested making the games kind of a console bound. Meaning that once you put the game inside your console it is registered to that particular console only and basically you couldn't sell it forward. But I think that this didn't quite work. Don't remember all the details, but I guess it was against some laws and such.


Really? Never heard of that story.

My guess is that is to prevent software piracy, as I can imagine it's pretty easy to copy games onto a blank cartridge or disk if you have the right equipment. With us in the Netherlands we're pretty strict on software sales: exchange within 24 hours, or if it has a one-use activation code, no exchange at all.


I actually have a couple of DS games like that. To activate the games online functionality it registered the game/console combination so I can never use that cartridge online in different console or with a different user account.

EA is leading the way for a total ban on all used game sales with the idea that every time someone buys a used game they lose a new copy sale :BANG_HEAD:
And I think it's Warner Bro's who is trying to do the same with movies :BANG_HEAD: :BANG_HEAD:
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby GetRightRobot » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:41 pm

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As a customizer who has spent roughly $300 on materials and 80+ hours on a Botcon custom entry, F**K You. I won't be bother bringing it. I'll ebay it, the same way I will get all of my future Botcon/Club exclusives. I'm done.

If you plan to protect Intellectual Properties includes chasing off your fanbase, it's working.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby NatsumeRyu » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:42 pm

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This was the logical next step. I didn't think I'd see it come to fruition this soon though.

Good thing cosplayers don't make any money or I'd be terrified of costuming. I'm almost happy I'm having trouble finding the time to finish brawl.... :S

Still, these actions show us where hasbro's focus is. The copyrights are their main focus, not much else....
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby zodconvoy » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:42 pm

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It sounds to me like Botcon is eating itself. What was a fan con became a company convention and is now a corporate presentation that we are graciously allowed to pay to attend.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby metaphorge » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:45 pm

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zodconvoy wrote:What was a fan con became a company convention and is now a corporate presentation that we are graciously allowed to pay to attend.
You hit the nail on the head.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:46 pm

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metaphorge wrote:
zodconvoy wrote:What was a fan con became a company convention and is now a corporate presentation that we are graciously allowed to pay to attend.
You hit the nail on the head.


Hadn't that been the case since OTFCC 2003?
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Dark Ops » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:49 pm

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So what's going to be in Artist Alley? Three guys with some Mazinger fan art, one guy who really likes Go-Bots, and a tumbleweed?
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby kirbenvost » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:00 pm

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zodconvoy wrote:It sounds to me like Botcon is eating itself. What was a fan con became a company convention and is now a corporate presentation that we are graciously allowed to pay to attend.


Yep. Maybe they ought to save themselves some money and just post pics of new products online. Who needs Funpub? OH WAIT. The profit they make from charging $300+ for 5 toys is probably still worth it to Hasbro.

So they're essentially also saying that hard-working artists shouldn't be paid for their work if it contains images of Hasbro property. Seems pretty BS to me. Why don't they compromise and require artists who wish to sell art purchase a one-time license for say $10 and they are permitted to sell their work for the duration of the 'Con. Hasbro gets their cut, everyone's (generally) happy. Y'know, instead of being dicks and outright banning it.
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby RhA » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:01 pm

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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby njb902 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:11 pm

guys/girls this is a toy company.....its "targeted" audience are children. it isn't very surprising they don't worry about their adult consumers. as long as kids go to stores and say mommy I want a transformer hasbro is happy. when they become unhappy they arnt going to worry about changeing things they are just going to move on........so yeah no more transformers.....
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby metaphorge » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:14 pm

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njb902 wrote:guys/girls this is a toy company.....its "targeted" audience are children. it isn't very surprising they don't worry about their adult consumers. as long as kids go to stores and say mommy I want a transformer hasbro is happy. when they become unhappy they arnt going to worry about changeing things they are just going to move on........so yeah no more transformers.....
The problem with this strategy (as I pointed out above) is it's rapidly becoming difficult to produce decent toys that can be sold inexpensivey, thus why Hasbro is trying to get out of the toy business....
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Re: Fan Art Sales now being banned at Botcon.

Postby Dead Metal » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:17 pm

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Just watch, the next thing to fall victim will be the cosplay! :lol:
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