Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Neo's just another word for "new". Neo G1 is "new G1." Unless it's a reissue that pretty much covered everything. Hell, even some guys like Ehobby Sunstorm or Ehobby SG Blaster, which are recolored G1 toys could rightly be considered Neo G1. Because they're new additions to G1. MPs and classics are all Neo G1 in that they're all new interpretations of the G1 toys.

Ditto most of the Energon Trilogy homages.

I think it's a little better to say things are more "modern". Then you have a better argument. I mean, obviously, guys based off the Fall of Cybertron game would have a more modern look than the toyworld guys. And most Classics releases are more modern than MPs in their look.

That's an overly literal take on the term neo...

I'm a literal person. People toss around the word Neo as if it's doesn't mean new at all. Neo G1 MEANS New G1. That's what it means. They're ALL new G1.

The dinobot sets that aren't Neo G1? The normal releases you find at stores.

You're proving my point - sure you can apply the term neo to all those things, but that's not at all what it means in the context of our collecting community... so why use it that way?

From my understanding, "Neo" is the flip side of Classics. Classics is not 100% faithful to the source material, but it tries to match the older character model aesthetic in spirit. Neo is a different kind of homage - it's streamlined in a way leans more towards the new (as the term implies) when it comes to character homages. In other words, where I see Classics as a representation, I see Neo as a reinvention.

My definition probably falls short because for me at least, it's a "I know it when I see it" kind of thing.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Neo's just another word for "new". Neo G1 is "new G1." Unless it's a reissue that pretty much covered everything. Hell, even some guys like Ehobby Sunstorm or Ehobby SG Blaster, which are recolored G1 toys could rightly be considered Neo G1. Because they're new additions to G1. MPs and classics are all Neo G1 in that they're all new interpretations of the G1 toys.

Ditto most of the Energon Trilogy homages.

I think it's a little better to say things are more "modern". Then you have a better argument. I mean, obviously, guys based off the Fall of Cybertron game would have a more modern look than the toyworld guys. And most Classics releases are more modern than MPs in their look.

i really dont agree with that.

neo is taking inspiration from G1 and giving it a modern spin. classics prime and megatron are perfect examples of this. you can clearly see what they are inspired from, but dont look dated. prime is a modern/futuristic truck, megatron is a space/nerf gun. almost everything else in the classics/generations lineup follows this scheme. i say FP's dinobots are neo because they dont follow G1 to a T, which becomes evident with slag. red horn, and dino feet becoming bot feet set it apart pretty well from G1. swoop is pretty slim, and one could argue that sludge has a younger feel to him. all of those, points to neo for me in the case of FP's dinobots.

PX's dinobots would be neo, if they werent specifically tied to a continuity. but FOC is its own thing. if you ignore that, then sure. make them part of your neo display.

repainted G1's are just that. repainted G1's. in no way is that neo. even remolding like say, device label convoy (new head) is not neo. thats like saying new years convoy with the diecast matrix addition, or TFC-0 convoy with his energy axe addition is neo. its simply not.

saying all AEC is neo, i disagree with. you might as well say anything after G1 is neo. sure theres name reuses, and homages, but nothing that id say holds true enough to G1 with all the heavy liberties taken with most homaged characters. would anyone put energon optimus prime in their generations display? i doubt it.

and MP's are the old characters, in their old vehicle modes, with modern engineering. thats it. they are as close to G1 without being G1. not neo.

shajaki wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Neo's just another word for "new". Neo G1 is "new G1." Unless it's a reissue that pretty much covered everything. Hell, even some guys like Ehobby Sunstorm or Ehobby SG Blaster, which are recolored G1 toys could rightly be considered Neo G1. Because they're new additions to G1. MPs and classics are all Neo G1 in that they're all new interpretations of the G1 toys.

Ditto most of the Energon Trilogy homages.

I think it's a little better to say things are more "modern". Then you have a better argument. I mean, obviously, guys based off the Fall of Cybertron game would have a more modern look than the toyworld guys. And most Classics releases are more modern than MPs in their look.

i really dont agree with that.

neo is taking inspiration from G1 and giving it a modern spin. classics prime and megatron are perfect examples of this. you can clearly see what they are inspired from, but dont look dated. prime is a modern/futuristic truck, megatron is a space/nerf gun. almost everything else in the classics/generations lineup follows this scheme. i say FP's dinobots are neo because they dont follow G1 to a T, which becomes evident with slag. red horn, and dino feet becoming bot feet set it apart pretty well from G1. swoop is pretty slim, and one could argue that sludge has a younger feel to him. all of those, points to neo for me in the case of FP's dinobots.

PX's dinobots would be neo, if they werent specifically tied to a continuity. but FOC is its own thing. if you ignore that, then sure. make them part of your neo display.

repainted G1's are just that. repainted G1's. in no way is that neo. even remolding like say, device label convoy (new head) is not neo. thats like saying new years convoy with the diecast matrix addition, or TFC-0 convoy with his energy axe addition is neo. its simply not.

saying all AEC is neo, i disagree with. you might as well say anything after G1 is neo. sure theres name reuses, and homages, but nothing that id say holds true enough to G1 with all the heavy liberties taken with most homaged characters. would anyone put energon optimus prime in their generations display? i doubt it.

and MP's are the old characters, in their old vehicle modes, with modern engineering. thats it. they are as close to G1 without being G1. not neo.

I wouldnt go as far to put energon prime in my classics collection. But energon downshift made a fine wheeljack until the generations version came out, thus making it neo for its time. The same could be said for botcon ironhide and ratchet who could also be dubbed as neo over a year before the classics line dropoed in 2006. But nobody called them neo back then, so why use the term now ? Its a very over used fan made term, but the dictionary defines its meaning simply as "new". On a side note classics megatron was less "neo" and more of a give in to parents who wouldnt let their kids even touch anything that was shaped or colored like a real gun. Thats where the purple and green came from, obviously not from G1. Perhaps a nod to armada megatron. But definitally far off from anything else in the 2006 line that started the neo craze.

Neo literally means new. Things can be more new and less new, but unless it's a flat out reissue or something wildly different, it's Neo G1.

I was perfectly comfortable putting my Energon toys with my Classics. Why not? Hasbro did it at the start of the line. We've grown out of that (and I'm grateful for that), but that doesn't stop Energon Galvatron G from being a Neo G1 Galvatron. Just because we have Mania King and Universe Galvatron doesn't mean Galvatron G doesn't stop being a modern update on G1 Galvatron. (with the meaning of "modern" being relative).

neo is taking inspiration from G1 and giving it a modern spin

You're disagreeing with me by giving me the exact same definition I'm using. This is exactly what makes a thing Neo G1. Taking something and giving it a modern spin. Whether that be in looks, detailing, modern egeneering and view on proportions. It doesn't have to be a radically new take on a thing to be a new take on it, it just has to be a new take on it.

saying all AEC is neo,

Didn't say that. The SDCC Dinobots are Neo G1, albeit forcibly so. Same for any deco that brings movie toys to G1. But it's forced.

Edit: misread AEC as AoE, but it's the same difference. Armada Unicron? That's a Neo G1 Unicron. Energon Galvatron? That's a Neo G1 Galvatron. New takes on G1 characters with heavy G1 influence makes them Neo G1.

FoC is a NEW take on G1 characters, so yeah ... Neo G1. Who cares if it's it's own continuity? A modern take is a modern take whether it comes from the comics, a video game, or a 3rd party guy reinterpreting a design.

and MP's are the old characters, in their old vehicle modes, with modern engineering. thats it. they are as close to G1 without being G1. not neo.

Their engeneering makes them Neo. The fact that they aren't blocky animation models fundamentally alters their look. Yeah, they aren't as "neo" as fall of Cybertron designs, but they certainly are a new take on an old design. Very much Neo G1.

New means new. The fandom doesn't even really agree what the difference is between "classics styled" and "neo G1"; there are many different takes.

My definition of "neo" is where the base concept and design elements of the original character are taken (so "a grey and gold robot that turns into a Triceratops) and are used to make a new design which is still recognizably the same character, but with a different execution. FP's DinoNots are Neo-G1 as they take the basic designs of the Dinobots and reinvent them- it's quite clearly recognizable as the original Dinobots, but they are still different- an update if you will. The AOE Dinobots on the other hand are completely new characters very loosely based on the concept of transforming dinosaurs. They look like mechanical fossils and transform almost entirely differently- they don't immediately resemble the originals. They're nothing wrong with either of these approaches, but they are worth noting.

A classics toy that isn't "neo" G1 is the Classics Seeker mold. With the exception of added surface detail (panels etc) it is almost identical to the original design. Obviously the colours may vary but it's physically almost identical. The iGear Raptor Seekers are more "neo" as the designs are quite radically different, with more angular details and movie inspirations, and of course they turn into F-22 Raptors instead of F-15 Eagles. They are still easily recognizable as the original Seekers as the colours and overall concept is basically the same. Armada Starscream is very much his own thing- although he is red and grey, his colour layout and transformation are highly different and his overall design is radically changed. He doesn't even have any blue! He's still Starscream, but he's a totaly different Starscream as opposed to a reimagining of G1 Starscream. Where it gets really difficult is when you have things like the Kawamori Starscream (MP-03) design, which has a lot in common with the original Starscream but also has a few obvious divergences (hip-modules, slimmer legs, more realistic colour scheme etc). In some ways it's very much G1 but in other ways it's Neo. I'd argue it is Neo because it's different enough from the original design to be its own thing rather than just a very subtle variation on the original.

TL,DR: "Accurate/Classics G1"= pretty much spot-on reproduction of the original design with very minor variations for the sake of practicality (so a slightly redesigned pelvis to allow for proper hip movement), "Neo G1"= the fundamental concept and design elements used to create a reimagining of the character which is immediately recognizable but still diferent, and "Completely original" is...well, completely original- not at all resembling the original design beyond minor cues or homages.

So for example, FansToys Swoop is "True G1", FP Swoop is "Neo G1" (I would make the same argument for FoC Swoop as he is plainly recognizable as Swoop) and Aoe Strafe is completely original.

The problem with "neo" as a fan term is defining where it begins and ends ends. Because everyone's different.

One one end you have MPs, Delicate Warrior, and Classics Starscream (figures that try their hardest to look like their on-screen counterparts). On the other you have Classics Constructicons, SDCC Dinobots, and, say, YotS Prime (figures that more homage older guys while giving their own take).

But that sliding scale is different for everyone. Obviously I feel as though Neo encompasses it all. But those further edges are always redefinined. What was Neo G1 before the recent MP boom where we didn't have a glut of very accurate G1 homages? That changed how many people saw "classics" and "g1". And the fact that "neo" (and Classics too) mean different things to different people is why is kinda sucks as a term.

Edit: Posted at the same time as X, but I gotta agree with him on this. When you give things articulation you necessarily change how they look.

I think the classics starscream mold is very neo because if features articulation and detal that the vintage figure did not have. The vintage figure was a brick. The new version was highly posable and had a much different transformation to be less kibbly and more streamlined. The whole neo argument works better for autobots then deceptions. Car body styles change every year. Fighter jets and tanks dont. Hasbro is still using WW2 style tanks and Migs. How many raptors can you have ? Theres got to be a variety to offset the variety of different autobot cars. Like I said earlier "neo" is a fan created term that is overused. Fans cant even seem to agree on the exact definitions of other terms like trolling or fanboy. The same thing goes for the word neo. Thats what happens when people start creating terms to use on forums with people they have never met in person. You get 100 different opinions on what the term actually means.

Edit and erase.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Edit and erase.

Too late, I saw it.

Honestly the "neo" debate has to happen. A small group of fans creates a term with one particular thing in mind. They didnt realize the broad spectrum that the meaning could be interpreted as. As a result they get slightly frustrated when somebody deviates from what they want the term to mean. But unless they can get the fan term officially put in Websters dictionary or wikipedia, "neo" simply means "new". All that other stuff about reinventing and modern takes goes out the window. Even a hamburger can be "neo" until its eaten.

YOU'RE ALL WRONG, ANYWAY!!

TfWiki wrote:Neo is an Autobot from the Dreamwave portion of the Generation 1 continuity family.

Neo is a member of the High Council.

Rated X wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Edit and erase.

Too late, I saw it.

Honestly the "neo" debate has to happen. A small group of fans creates a term with one particular thing in mind. They didnt realize the broad spectrum that the meaning could be interpreted as. As a result they get slightly frustrated when somebody deviates from what they want the term to mean. But unless they can get the fan term officially put in Websters dictionary or wikipedia, "neo" simply means "new". All that other stuff about reinventing and modern takes goes out the window. Even a hamburger can be "neo" until its eaten.

Agreed. That's the problem when you co-opt a real word and try to change it's definition to mean something else. New is new. The real debate here is what each person considers new and where to draw the line. Objectively, however, it's ALL a new take on G1.

Even the MPs ... Soundwave is pretty much the standard of what's "G1". But what about Wheeljack? Merging the animation model (which doesn't really transform) with his toy resulted in a take that's ... what? Not new? Because it's not how he was depicted back in the day; it's how people interpret him NOW.

It's better to say neo just means what it means ... new. Without imposing much personal bias on what YOU consider to be "new". G1 is G1 - the old 80's toys, comics, and designs. Neo G1 are NEW additions based off that. It doesn't have to be complicated or even open to much personal opinion.

then i suggest a new word.

reaneomaginationatory!

I opened Columpio last night.

Today I cancelled my order for PX Neptune (Sludge), and ordered FP Cubrar (Slag).
Sorry PX, gotta step it up!

One thing I did find that I didn't like about Columpio, he is a bit loose, which is odd from FP.
Also the handle sticking off the back of the mini-con means he will probably never see bot mode again, bleh! Still makes a cool weapon, though.

so... i was really torn on what to do. after i found out that the diaclone version were going to continue, i was very happy. then i realized they would be very true to their source (which shouldnt have surprised me) i became... less happy. i want the chrome and premium paint apps, but i want to colors to match G1.

their upcoming diaclone slag? blue.

sure i could buy both versions and swap parts to obtain the red i want with the chrome i want. but the red wont match the "premium" metallic red that my sludge currently has.

i know im reading a lot into this. but its making my brain melt
im still definitely sticking with the diaclone versions. and their secondary colors wont be showing much since i plan to leave them posed in dino mode. so... my FP dinobots are amazing.. but not ideal...

I got Columpio. I actually like the die-cast metal look of the stock paint job. It's not true chrome, but reminds me a lot of my G1 metal finishes. Also, I may have gotten lucky as the joints are pretty tight. I will also say, that like Code and the other headmasters, this guy is a pleasure to transform and play with! I am very impressed, FP!

Glad I didnt waste my money on the exclusive sludge. I would be pretty bummed about the blue slag. But im equally bummed about the red swoop. Oh well, at least they are awesome molds compared to their competition. My sludge arrives tuesday.

I also dig the stock paint on this guy.

I have him with Caelus and a Takara Grimlock decked out with a lot of 3P add-ons, and I think he matches up well color wise.

I think Caelus will remain my swoop too.
I'm not as interested in the FP version, unless I get it for the fembot shelf.

rpetras wrote: I'm not as interested in the FP version, unless I get it for the fembot shelf.

Im trying real hard to see the fembot vibe several others have suggested, but Im just not seeing it. Any similarities to cleavage is thwarted by the giant bird head in the center of his chest. While the waist does resemble a coke bottle figure, the lack of a flat stomach kills any fembot vibe I could possibly get. Once again, the giant bird head/beak helps me unsee what you guys are seeing. I'm good with him. This is not first edition Starscream. Swoop has just been given the classics Mirage treatment.

Rated X wrote:Swoop has just been given the classics Mirage treatment.

while i do agree with you, ill play the devils advocate. mirage was feminized as gobots crasher, or "fracture".

I don't see the fembot thing either, he looks like most Swoops - he's the skinny dude among all the beefcake.

TheGrognard wrote:I don't see the fembot thing either, he looks like most Swoops - he's the skinny dude among all the beefcake.

G1 swoop was smaller than the rest i think, but not thin. most renditions of him since then have been small and thinner though. case and point:

rpetras wrote:I also dig the stock paint on this guy.

I have him with Caelus and a Takara Grimlock decked out with a lot of 3P add-ons, and I think he matches up well color wise.

I think Caelus will remain my swoop too.
I'm not as interested in the FP version, unless I get it for the fembot shelf.

I'm going to do this as well I hope someone will make a more G1 accurate head for him though. If not meh it still looks awesome.

This is clearly a skinny guy as it has a very male "V" shape to his torso:

shajaki wrote:

The red body here forms an hourglass shape that looks very feminine to me:



On top of it, I kind of see the big bird head as a gold necklace and the lower legs can pass as thigh-high boots.

rpetras wrote:This is clearly a skinny guy as it has a very male "V" shape to his torso:

shajaki wrote:

The red body here forms an hourglass shape that looks very feminine to me:



On top of it, I kind of see the big bird head as a gold necklace and the lower legs can pass as thigh-high boots.

I just don't see it. The bird head eliminates the signature flat stomach of fembots. And the boots are pretty chunky.

I get more of a fembot vibe from 2013 Botcon Strika than FP Swoop...