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robofreak wrote:Seriously Shadowman? You keep beating this dead horse to the point that I went from thinking it was a good game to being an amazing game just because you persist in believing it is bad because if it's inconsistencies in whic if you look at the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Why? Because it is a game who's sole purpose is to ENTERTAIN. That's why any of us buy video games in the first place.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not particularly entertained by massive plot holes.

robofreak wrote:You've stated your dislike and your reasons for being annoyed with it. I think it's time to give it a rest.

I'll stop stating it when people stop arguing with me over it.

robofreak wrote:I don't even see why you bought the game in the first place if it was going to make you this upset over the frikkin thing.

Because I didn't think it was going to be as bad as it was.

Counterpunch wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And worse yet, the party [spoiler]never planned for a complete shutdown of Cocoon, despite knowing that if they killed Orphan it would happen.

"Cocoon won't die, we're not here for that. We came for you"

"Refusing me merely condemns another to face your focus tomorrow."

"Destruction and salvation, two irreconcilable focuses."

Throw out all the trope page and commentary you want. Those three lines from the game alone show that the party was clear in its goal, they had no choice but to act. Yes, there is certainly a Dues Ex Machina component to the way the game ends. That doesn't dismiss that the party is placed in a no win situation and even with that being the case, they choose to act because inaction brings certain doom for everyone and everything. Saving Cocoon meant the big-bad had to go. There was no scenario where saving Cocoon would have allowed him to remain.

Um...maybe I missed the line, but where exactly do they say if they found a way to escape that chamber at the end, everyone else was screwed?

robofreak wrote:The fact of the matter is that most RPG players have bought this game and have enjoyed it.

As an RPG fan, I didn't enjoy Final Fanatasy XIII, in fact it's the only FF game that I traded in. I didn't like the combat system, the characters, the world, or the story. The only thing I liked was the graphics and Lightening's voice actress who did the voice of Liara in Mass Effect, in fact she was the main reason I bought the game.

While graphically it's a great looking game, but IMHO Final Fantasy XIII is a classic example of style over substance.

Don't take it personally I didn't like it, if you like it more power to you.

Cyberstrike wrote:

robofreak wrote:The fact of the matter is that most RPG players have bought this game and have enjoyed it.

As an RPG fan, I didn't enjoy Final Fanatasy XIII, in fact it's the only FF game that I traded in. I didn't like the combat system, the characters, the world, or the story.

I think that's a completely valid complaint about the game.

From a RPG standpoint, it's NOT a good game because there's not divergent paths or a large degree of character manipulation.

It's almost more akin to Kingdom Hearts in many ways.

Come at it like that and I have no problem with that kind of critique.

I do disagree about the story and characters because the growth and emotional displays are, for how I saw it, quite genuine and well done.

Shadowman wrote:

robofreak wrote:You've stated your dislike and your reasons for being annoyed with it. I think it's time to give it a rest.

I'll stop stating it when people stop arguing with me over it.

That's complete bullshit right there.

You've been the one to drag the topic down even after our first little debate had come and gone. (Here: final-fantasy-xiii-t75123s30.php#p1206671 )

If you think debates and discussions only end when you get the last word in and people stop arguing with you then for starters, you need to grow up. For another thing, if you continue in that line of thinking you're not going to recognize when people have simply dismissed your ideas and left you out of a conversation while still thinking that you've "won".

Counterpunch wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

robofreak wrote:You've stated your dislike and your reasons for being annoyed with it. I think it's time to give it a rest.

I'll stop stating it when people stop arguing with me over it.

That's complete bullshit right there.

Enough said.

Anyways, I was a little tired when I did make my previous comment about the RPG standpoint and yes when it comes to having diversity in fighting and travel and everything we've come to love about our RPG's, it is definitely sub-par. As a game with amazing graphics and story though, I think it's awesome and a lot of my FF buddies agreed.

However, like CP, I like the characters and how they developed over the course of the game. Let's break down a couple:

Hope: Goes from scared to little boy to a young man who is learning to stand up for things he believes in and defend his friends at all costs.

Lightning: Goes from cold and distant, to friendly and warm. (Okay, still not the warmest person of the bunch but a lot of her walls are brought down over the course of the game.)

Snow: Egogistical pride-ridden character with a hero complex the size of Jupiter. He learns just how helpless he really can be, but in spite of that he tones down his antics and insists on pushing himself to the limits to at least give his part.

Sazh: At first he's afraid of things he doesn't understand, but as time progresses, he learns to accept the unknown as a normal part of life.

Vanille: Used to hide behind displays of happiness to mask the pain and fear inside. Later on learns that despite her past she will still be accepted by her friends and eventually gains a truer sense of who she is and is able to become a more happy character for it.

I know I forgot Fang, but those are what came to mind. I might be wrong on a couple as the story did blur together at some points, but overall, I think it had great character development unlike some of the other recent FF titles.

Counterpunch wrote:If you think debates and discussions only end when you get the last word in and people stop arguing with you then for starters, you need to grow up.

What I meant was, if someone challenges my opinion, I'm going to defend it. Debating tends to end quite abruptly if someone just ignores a counter-point, you see.

Back on topic, I do agree with Robofreak (And, by extension, disagree with Cyberstrike) that yeah, the game actually had decent, easily likable characters who developed quite nicely. That and the graphics and design were easily the high-points of the game.