Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

tomservo wrote:What a spirited debate we have going here! To think, this is all over a few character designs. If a new trailer comes out, there might be blood spilled.

Nah. I think the major war was last year. These are just minor scraps.

Milanion wrote:

tomservo wrote:What a spirited debate we have going here! To think, this is all over a few character designs. If a new trailer comes out, there might be blood spilled.

Nah. I think the major war was last year. These are just minor scraps.

The biggest I believe ballooned to 50 pages in less than 2 weeks with the unvayling of "Megatron" and included scrappy comments by Don Murphy himself. I'll not go further than that.

Ironhidensh wrote:

AbsumZer0 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

AbsumZer0 wrote:And if someone is going to go about insisting that it's superior to what came before it, fine, but they should at least have seen what they're comparing it to. Some of the Showa Godzilla films were cheap, yes, but to dismiss the Heisei films as 'rubber suits and cardboard buildings' it becomes obvious he hasn't seen them.

I've seen damn near every Godzilla film. I know full well what I'm comparing it to. When you place the old against the '98 movie, the old is cheap rubber suits and cardboard sets.


Now, that doesn't devalue your rose colored vision of it, but its still a rose colored vision. Just because you read something into a franchise, doesn't mean everyone else will as well, and it doesn't make you superior to them for not having the same interpretation.

Then Predator and the first two Alien films are crappy movies with cheap suits and cardboard sets, compared to the majesty of the special effects might of Godzilla or Van Helsing, right?

Godzilla flopped for a reason. Pretending it didn't doesn't change anything.

I hope you aren't tying to suggest that the "effects" and costumes of the old Godzilla movies are on par with Predator and the Alien films, are you?

Not the old Showa-era films. I'm still not talking about them. The late Heisei-era films. The ones immediately precluding the Tristar Godzilla, from the early to mid 90's. The ones with animatronics. Those films didn't have the careful editing or the darkness to make them look quite so superb, but in terms of detail and technology the suits were definitely on-par.

Spoon wrote:Frenzy looks like it will fall apart when someone coughs in it's general direction.
Ironhide looks the least terrible of the bunch.

Meh,
I'll go torrent this stuf... Cause I am a Pirate

thats funny. "HOORAY"

'98 Godzilla made a ton of money.
--However, the owners of "Godzilla" hated it.
--Most old fans hated it.
--Critics hated it.
--The people who worked on it lost professional credibility.
--And the company who'd made GREAT profits on releasing toys of the classic versions went under soon after taking a hit on the new version not selling for crap. (Read: No long-term new "fans", just disenfranchised old ones).

Is that a "success", or a case of MASSIVE, OVER-SATURATIVE ADVERTISING reeling in a bunch of newbies while ALSO reeling in fans by using a HOUSEHOLD name?
Godzilla 98 making money was due to "trickery", not because it was a good movie. So, despite my feelings of nostalgia, i agree the old ones did suck somewhat... but when a company pawns something off as something it's not, spending millions to do so and trick the entire world into seeing it... I get pissed.

As for godzilla 98 being an approach at "being more serious"... dude, it was the lack of seriousness that murdered it.
I threw up when I saw the leaked character design. But seeing it in action, I then LOVED that Godzilla in a different way than the original.

So why'd I and most others hate Godzilla 98?

The movie itself didn't know what it was.
It said "Godzilla", but he wasn't Godzilla.
The creature was well animated, more realistic, and physically more logical... but the BAD actors, with all their little one-liners and the constant dropping of pop culture references didn't jive.

If the "human aspect" of godzilla 98 had matched the serious new rendition of the creature, it would've been a GREAT movie.

That didn't happen.
And since elements seen in the leaked Transformers script seem to mostly be spot-on, it appears that Transformers is going the same way.

The movie itself doesn't know what it is.
It says "transformers" but they're not them.
The robots will be well animated, with a more serious approach to their physical transformations... but the BAD actors, with all their little one-liners and the constant dropping of pop culture references won't jive.

Oh, but I haven't seen the movie yet. I can't know that that's truly how it'll be, right?
Bullshit.
The script has thus far closely matched what has been released.
Likewise, if one reads the Godzilla 98 script, it is QUITE clear what to expect in the movie.

Anyway, slightly off-topic, ...Is it illegal to kick people in the nuts who say movies that make good financial returns MUST be "good"?

Seriously, Godzilla, probably like transformers will, made alot of money (initially) due to HEAVY marketing and household name recognition.
But it DID also suck.

Shadowman
Post Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:33 pm


EDIT:

Sorry, I didn't quite specify:
Three people just made large posts about why they should've made a sequel to a series most Americans aren't familiar with.

Very good. You're saying "Godzilla" wasn't an instantly-recognizable, generation-spanning household name over many decades. You're right. Keep up the good work.

And by that, I actually mean, "WHAT in the holy HELL?"

There's this image that I can't get out of my head.........of Skywarp, Thundercracker, and Rumble showing Starscream and Frenzy these movie designs while pointing fingers and laughing at them.

Riotflea wrote:
Anyway, slightly off-topic, ...Is it illegal to kick people in the nuts who say movies that make good financial returns MUST be "good"?

Seriously, Godzilla, probably like transformers will, made alkot of money (initially) due to HEAVY marketing and household name recognition.
But it DID also suck.

Actually, Godzilla made a lot of money in foreign release but barely broke even domestically and that was only due to Tristar's demanding an unusually large portion of the per-ticket sales. As a result Tristar is about the only one that really made money off the film. The theaters got shafted because they couldn't fill the cinemas, Trendmasters and the other companies who paid out the nose for licenses lost money because their product wasn't moving, the retailers selling Godzilla merchandise lost money because they had to clearance it. Apart from the poor reviews another reason Tristar didn't go ahead with a sequel is because they wouldn't have been able to sell licenses.

Zuko wrote:Woohoo for explosions, tiny plot and transforming robots beating the piss out of each other!

YEEHAW!!!!!!!

What a spirited debate we have going here! To think, this is all over a few character designs. If a new trailer comes out, there might be blood spilled.

I was thinkin' of a witty response to this, but hell, with the way things are going now you may be right.

@Down_Shift, recommended Godzilla viewing:

Gojira(they just released a 2-disc set with this and Godzilla:King of the Monsters. Gojira is far superior.)
Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla
Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla
Godzilla vs. Destroyah
Godzilla 2000
Godzilla against Mechagodzilla
Godzilla GMK

These are my personal favs. And do yourself a favor, stay far, VERY FAR away from Godzilla 98. Anyone out there see Final Wars, I have yet to?

I have a soft spot in my heart for Godzilla vs. Megalon.
It looks like it was done on a shoestring budget.
It has WONKY, physically impossible kung fu sequences. (godzilla AIR KICK?!? lol)
It had a robot who was a clear ripoff of Tsuburaya's 'Ultraman'.
A really cheesy car chase that utilizes even cheaper tape editing "action" effects.
And the kid had cool toys.

I dunno... I can watch it over and over. It's so fun and silly.

D-340 wrote:

Zuko wrote:Woohoo for explosions, tiny plot and transforming robots beating the piss out of each other!

YEEHAW!!!!!!!

What a spirited debate we have going here! To think, this is all over a few character designs. If a new trailer comes out, there might be blood spilled.

I was thinkin' of a witty response to this, but hell, with the way things are going now you may be right.

@Down_Shift, recommended Godzilla viewing:

Gojira(they just released a 2-disc set with this and Godzilla:King of the Monsters. Gojira is far superior.)
Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla
Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla
Godzilla vs. Destroyah
Godzilla 2000
Godzilla against Mechagodzilla
Godzilla GMK

These are my personal favs. And do yourself a favor, stay far, VERY FAR away from Godzilla 98. Anyone out there see Final Wars, I have yet to?

Isn't final wars the one that's supposed to have G2000 vs GINO(Godzilla in name only)?

I've so been wanting to see that.

Oh, & as far as Tristar's Gino is concerned....I didn't see much difference between it & another popular disaster movie: Twister...other than one was about a giant lizard in a big city, & the other was about tornados in the midwest. aside from a couple of obvious differences, they both pretty much have the same plot.