Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

For those of you who are doing this indoors with a UV lamp, are you using UVA or UVB lamps? I bought a UVB lamp/bulb yesterday but can't really tell if it's working as well as natural sunlight. The pink feet of Double Punch are being stubborn. They look the same as they did a few days ago when I put them in. I replaced the H2O2 today to see if that makes a difference by the weekend.

Seibertron wrote:I can't help but think that GPS is caused by the same problem, now that I figured out that the H2O2 fixes Pretender shells as well. I'm really tempted to let a BW2 Randy soak in H2O2 for a week or two to see if it makes him less fragile. Now the track is to get him out of the package without damaging him. Hm ...

I'm very interested in the outcome of this experiment! The only GPS type TF I have is Magnaboss's Silverbolt, and he's still MISB, so no chance of me doing any experimenting on him. Seems like Randy would indeed be the cheapest GPS-affected Transformer to experiment on. Actually, an already broken GPS item might be even better to experiment on: testing to see if the H2O2 has any positive effect would probably mean putting stress on the plastic anyhow.

I'm actually curious about microwaving the GPS plastic too: it would most definitely mean disassembling a GPS TF to be sure no metal parts get put in the microwave, and that alone would be a problem for most GPS objects, but I really wonder if it might in some way bond the plastic mix better...

alldarker wrote:

Seibertron wrote:I can't help but think that GPS is caused by the same problem, now that I figured out that the H2O2 fixes Pretender shells as well. I'm really tempted to let a BW2 Randy soak in H2O2 for a week or two to see if it makes him less fragile. Now the track is to get him out of the package without damaging him. Hm ...

I'm very interested in the outcome of this experiment! The only GPS type TF I have is Magnaboss's Silverbolt, and he's still MISB, so no chance of me doing any experimenting on him. Seems like Randy would indeed be the cheapest GPS-affected Transformer to experiment on. Actually, an already broken GPS item might be even better to experiment on: testing to see if the H2O2 has any positive effect would probably mean putting stress on the plastic anyhow.

I'm actually curious about microwaving the GPS plastic too: it would most definitely mean disassembling a GPS TF to be sure no metal parts get put in the microwave, and that alone would be a problem for most GPS objects, but I really wonder if it might in some way bond the plastic mix better...

Why on earth would you microwave GPS plastic? I have $10 that says microwaving the plastic or any plastic for that matter would turn into a bubbling mess.

The problem I see with GPS is one of 2 things. It's either a chemical additive like the Bromine or it's the metallic flakes.

My guess is that the problem with gold plastic is the metallic flakes causing micro bubbles in large amounts which causes the breakage.

Short of Hasbro and Takara releasing every single GPS affected figure in some kind of new plastic, the problem will never be resolved.

I do stand to be corrected however if someone can pull it off.

robofreak wrote:

alldarker wrote:I'm actually curious about microwaving the GPS plastic too: it would most definitely mean disassembling a GPS TF to be sure no metal parts get put in the microwave, and that alone would be a problem for most GPS objects, but I really wonder if it might in some way bond the plastic mix better...

Why on earth would you microwave GPS plastic? I have $10 that says microwaving the plastic or any plastic for that matter would turn into a bubbling mess.

Why would plastic turn into a bubbling mess in the microwave? There's plenty of plastics that are microwave safe: just ask my local Chinese takeaway And I'm definitely not suggesting that you put the plastic in for 30 minutes at full power: if I were testing this, I'd only start at lowest power for a couple of seconds...

robofreak wrote:The problem I see with GPS is one of 2 things. It's either a chemical additive like the Bromine or it's the metallic flakes.

My guess is that the problem with gold plastic is the metallic flakes causing micro bubbles in large amounts which causes the breakage.

I kind of agree with you on this: I'd say the (gold) metallic flakes aren't able to mix or bond properly with the plastic, making them nothing more than loose, unbonded microscopic particles within the plastic. Not actually bubbles, but they have the same effect in that they are not supporting the structure and in fact are causing structural weakness within the whole plastic mix. It's also the reason I'd hope that microwaving the GPS plastic might melt or 'sticky up' those metallic flakes, making the bond with the surrounding plastic. Sure, it's a risk, and it's a idea that's pretty far 'out there', but currently ideas like this is all we have to go on!

robofreak wrote:Short of Hasbro and Takara releasing every single GPS affected figure in some kind of new plastic, the problem will never be resolved.

This is exactly the kind of opinion that also existed about yellowing plastic, before the H2O2 method was discovered. Back then, people also thought it would never be reversible, and that the best solution was to accept it, paint over it or replace the whole item. The H2O2 method has definitely changed views on that, though!

robofreak wrote:I do stand to be corrected however if someone can pull it off.

I'd say that considering the extent of the GPS problem and the damage it causes, any wild idea to cure it is currently better than just sitting back and accepting it as fate...

I agree about the GPS issue. The question is whether or not we can find a fix, if any, before the remaining samples all crumble. The clock's ticking!

Back to fixing the yellowing, I must've left the feet for Double Punch in the H202 too long because where they were once yellowish pink in some parts are now faded whitish pink. I thought I read that after a certain amount of time that the color restores to the object but I can't find where I read that now. It seems like it must be really a minor surface discoloration because they were pink as pink could be until I removed them from the H202, rinsed them off and then let them air dry.

I think the best treatmentent to the GPS issue would be some kind of chemical treament that would soak into the plastic. and act as an epoxy on a small scale.

The trick is finding something that could act as that bonding agent. Something that could strengthen the plastic after a soak and sufficient drying time.

I'll wait for someone to come up with a brilliant idea in the next few years.

I've been avoiding GPS figures because of the sheer breakability of them. G2 Slingshot has got to be the worst of them.

It seems unlikely that we could allow something to sink into the plastic in the case of GPS - don't forget the breakdown is caused by the metallic flecks breaking the plastic apart.

But... I think we could coat the plastic, maybe in a layer of resin\varnish to help hold the plastic together. Although even if that did work, you'd still be left with the issue that the new layer has left the toy rather still\unable to transform fully.

Amelie wrote:It seems unlikely that we could allow something to sink into the plastic in the case of GPS - don't forget the breakdown is caused by the metallic flecks breaking the plastic apart.

But... I think we could coat the plastic, maybe in a layer of resin\varnish to help hold the plastic together. Although even if that did work, you'd still be left with the issue that the new layer has left the toy rather still\unable to transform fully.

How about we just recast all the GPS affected parts and use a plastic that isn't as weak for the new batch?

That way, we can just replace all the parts.

Amelie wrote:It seems unlikely that we could allow something to sink into the plastic in the case of GPS - don't forget the breakdown is caused by the metallic flecks breaking the plastic apart.

But... I think we could coat the plastic, maybe in a layer of resin\varnish to help hold the plastic together. Although even if that did work, you'd still be left with the issue that the new layer has left the toy rather still\unable to transform fully.

I'd rather find a different solution. Coating the plastic seems like painting yellowed plastic.

What if it has something to do with the metallic flakes as well as the yellowing issue which is caused by the fire retardant breaking down in the ABS plastic? It would make sense that after X amount of time that both gold plastic and other colored plastic both suffer from the fire retardant breaking down. The gold plastic, due to its makeup, reacts differently by becoming fragile due to the metal flakes. No one bought a gold plastic figure off the shelf and had it break the moment they got home from the store. It always happens a few years later.

robofreak wrote:

Amelie wrote:It seems unlikely that we could allow something to sink into the plastic in the case of GPS - don't forget the breakdown is caused by the metallic flecks breaking the plastic apart.

But... I think we could coat the plastic, maybe in a layer of resin\varnish to help hold the plastic together. Although even if that did work, you'd still be left with the issue that the new layer has left the toy rather still\unable to transform fully.

How about we just recast all the GPS affected parts and use a plastic that isn't as weak for the new batch?

That way, we can just replace all the parts.

I keep hoping a 3rd party company does this.