Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

by **MemoryOverdrive** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:44 pm

Been awhile since I could work on some more guys but I recently picked up another Jetfire and a Skalor to work on. I can't find a jar big enough for my Fort Max so I've been holding off.
Here's some shots of the other two Jetfire was in way worse condition than before and he has some pieces that are broke.

You can see a few pieces damaged his back wing tip, his chest piece the bottom right is chipped, and missing one of the black covers on his hips. You might not be able to tell but it looks like someone took a lighter to his forehead.
Skalor

He turned out quite well and I have one more Skalor to do.
Used the same process as with the two Jetfires but put it outsude in the sun rather than under a heat lamp. Seemed to work faster outside by 2 days. I was curious about the colors on Skalor but they didn't get messed up it just lightened the brown color up to the colors that weren't damaged. So far so good on fixing sun damaged Transformers.

by **MemoryOverdrive** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:47 pm

Sorry for the bad pics Ill post better pics when I get a camera my last one died and I have been using my camera phone. Still looking around for a good deal on one.
All my pics from the last few months of working are here.
http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/kmfdm_sucks/

News Credits: 13 · by **grimdragon2001** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:46 pm

is it possible to do, or am i stuck with it? and if it is possible, how?

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:23 pm

It is possible to remove yellowing. Submerge the yellowed parts in 30% hydrogen peroxide (available at pool supply stores) in a clear sealable glass jar and sit in direct sunlight. This process works remarkably well. I took a G1 Jetfire from moderately yellowed to bone white. I think I may even have some before and after pics. The change was dramatic. The key to the process ironically enough is the UV light from the sun, it acts as a catalyst. Just be careful with the hydrogen peroxide, if it touches bare skin it stings and turns your skin white for about an hour.

News Credits: 7 · by **alldarker** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:28 am

Yes, hydrogen peroxide and UV-light or direct sunlight is the answer. The results are astounding!
Like El Duque stated, be careful, because hydrogen peroxide is aggressive, like an acid. Also, remember to remove screws and any metal parts that are susceptible to rusting. Finally, I've experienced it to dissolve chrome paint, so do beware of soaking chrome parts. And of course, stickers don't handle the soaking well either, so be prepared to buy replacement stickers if needed.

I actually use 3% hydrogen peroxide, because it is more readily available in the shops. It does take (a lot) longer, but the results are still excellent. I've already taken care of some yellowed Overlord parts, and right now I'm soaking a G1 Groove.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:51 am

It should be noted that it's not a cure, just a way of treating the yellowing. I should also mention that peroxide is more commonly used as a bleaching agent, especially for hair. So all you're doing is bleaching the plastic

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:04 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:It should be noted that it's not a cure, just a way of treating the yellowing. I should also mention that peroxide is more commonly used as a bleaching agent, especially for hair. So all you're doing is bleaching the plastic

Yes and no, I've done quite a bit of research on the subject and there is more going on than a simple bleaching. If that were the case it would turn colored plastics white which it doesn't. Actually it will reverese discolorization in colored plastics as well especially blues and greens that often discolor. It seems to be safe people have been using the process for several years now and haven't reported any side effects and the yellowing does not return, unless of course the plastic gets re-exposed to sun light.
Here a site I found useful: http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/

edit: While the page I listed recommends creating a paste that includes an oxy booster I got better results with straight peroxide in a clear jar. I do plan on making some more of the paste so apply to my Overlord's chest flaps for a spot application.

News Credits: 125 · by **Counterpunch** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:09 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:It should be noted that it's not a cure, just a way of treating the yellowing. I should also mention that peroxide is more commonly used as a bleaching agent, especially for hair. So all you're doing is bleaching the plastic

It's not a bleaching action.

My wife is a chemical engineer. What's going on is a pretty complicated altering of the plastic.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:17 am

Counterpunch wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:It should be noted that it's not a cure, just a way of treating the yellowing. I should also mention that peroxide is more commonly used as a bleaching agent, especially for hair. So all you're doing is bleaching the plastic

It's not a bleaching action.

My wife is a chemical engineer. What's going on is a pretty complicated altering of the plastic.

You lucky dog. I was actually pretty good at Chemistry, maybe she can give me a refresher course?

News Credits: 13 · by **grimdragon2001** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:34 am

ill be giving this a try asap, thanks guys

News Credits: 11 · by **kirbenvost** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:50 am

I consider myself extremely lucky to have purchased a G1 Jetfire that WASN'T yellowed, and for a decent price, but at least now I know if he does get that way, all is not lost.

Come to think of it, my Robot Masters R-Blade and WST Red Alert could use a soaking...

Say, how would this work on red plastic? One of my Primes is looking a bit orange these days...

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:04 pm

kirbenvost wrote:I consider myself extremely lucky to have purchased a G1 Jetfire that WASN'T yellowed, and for a decent price, but at least now I know if he does get that way, all is not lost.

Come to think of it, my Robot Masters R-Blade and WST Red Alert could use a soaking...

Say, how would this work on red plastic? One of my Primes is looking a bit orange these days...

Never seen it used on red plastics. I've seen it used on discolored Seacons, and they were returned to their original colors. The only problem I see is the red is probably faded rather than discolored, but who knows it may work. I know it works like a champ on whites, blues, and greens.

News Credits: 13 · by **grimdragon2001** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:42 am

Can't recommend this for Classics series figures now. Just tried it with Ramjet and not only did the paint start to peel off but a wing broke off aswell. Im just thankful this didnt happen to my Classics Ultra Magnus

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:42 pm

grimdragon2001 wrote:Can't recommend this for Classics series figures now. Just tried it with Ramjet and not only did the paint start to peel off but a wing broke off aswell. Im just thankful this didnt happen to my Classics Ultra Magnus

Wow, that's weird. Surprised your classics Ramjet already had yellowing, did you have it displayed where it would be exposed to direct sunlight? None of the figures I've done this to have had any problems. I left some of Jetfire's parts in a 30% solutions for over two days, and didn't have have any problems during reassembly and I've transformed him multiple times since then. Sorry about your bad luck.

News Credits: 13 · by **grimdragon2001** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:30 pm

ramjet, starscream and magnus got yellowed a bit when i foolishly displayed them on the windowcil of my office. still kicking myself for it. im not sure if hasbro uses different paints now or if it was the oxy clean i added to the mix (as suggested by the website listed on this board) due to only having 3% poroxide available. the wing paint just bubbled up and started to peel off. guess its time to look into a henkei version

by **Tirade** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:38 pm

grimdragon2001 wrote:ramjet, starscream and magnus got yellowed a bit when i foolishly displayed them on the windowcil of my office. still kicking myself for it. im not sure if hasbro uses different paints now or if it was the oxy clean i added to the mix (as suggested by the website listed on this board) due to only having 3% poroxide available. the wing paint just bubbled up and started to peel off. guess its time to look into a henkei version

Well, that may have been your problem: the Oxy Clean. I'm not sure I would have proceeded without getting some 30% H2O2. El Duque did mention just using straight hydrogen peroxide. So while I do sympathize, I'm not sure I would have used the Oxy Clean.

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:56 pm

Tirade wrote:
grimdragon2001 wrote:ramjet, starscream and magnus got yellowed a bit when i foolishly displayed them on the windowcil of my office. still kicking myself for it. im not sure if hasbro uses different paints now or if it was the oxy clean i added to the mix (as suggested by the website listed on this board) due to only having 3% poroxide available. the wing paint just bubbled up and started to peel off. guess its time to look into a henkei version

Well, that may have been your problem: the Oxy Clean. I'm not sure I would have proceeded without getting some 30% H2O2. El Duque did mention just using straight hydrogen peroxide. So while I do sympathize, I'm not sure I would have used the Oxy Clean.

I've done it both ways with the oxy booster and without. Adding the oxy booster makes the hydrogen peroxide cloudy and thus reduces the amount of sunlight hitting the parts. I didn't have any problems with it when I used the oxy booster, I just decided it wasn't necessary. I doubt it's inclusion is what caused his problems. It may just be that the newer formula plastics they are using aren't compatible with the process. I've only used it on vintage figures. I only included the link to the Retr0brite page, because it goes into the whole chemical process extensively. I plan on using the process tomorrow on G1 Mirage's chest piece.

News Credits: 7 · by **alldarker** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:15 am

A quick Google search gave me this, which is quite interesting. It goes a little further into the causes of plastic yellowing (bromine, supposedly) and the reversal of the yellowing process with H2O2 and UV light. Interestingly, this guy does recommend adding a little OxyClean to the mix...

by **Tirade** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:36 am

Then I'd say El Duque is right about the cause being the newer plastics.

Has anyone ever tried to remove yellowing from these 2000 generation figs?

News Credits: 13 · by **grimdragon2001** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:08 pm

here is the exact results from ramjets aproxament 20 hour soak in 3% hydrogen poroxide and oxy as close as i can relay them.

red paint from the wings and back began to bubble and come off the plastic. the silver paint on the body faded out to a grey that makes it look dirty

many joints stiffened significantly, the legs most notebly due to the fact once compessed for transformation, they often popped off the ball joint rather then pulling back out. the wing joints were also stiffend and required much more force to move. which factors into the next part

the thuster on the right leg split in half upon trying to move the wing joint. the break was at the screw points.

i hope this at least serves as a good reference for anyone looking to restore more recent releases that have yellowing issues

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:44 pm

As I said previously, it could be that the newer plastics are of a different formula that will not stand up to this process. On a side note, you probably would have had better results had you completely disassembled the figure and only soaked the parts that needed to be whitened. Obviously that wouldn't have helped with the paint lifting, but it may have helped with the joints. The figures I have used this process on retained their paint and most of their stickers, but again the paint formulas have probably changed over the years and may not be as resilient as they used to be. It's most definitely a use at your own risk sort of operation. I probably wouldn't have tried it on Jetfire, but I ended up with two, one yellowed and one not.

If anyone is going to try this, here are some tips:

-completely disassemble the figure and only whiten the parts that are yellowed

-remove all screws and metal when possible, the metal will oxidize. The oxidation can be removed, but it's better to prevent that problem rather than correct it.

-I use straight 30% hydrogen peroxide in a clear glass jar with a resealable lid.

-once the parts have reached the desired level of whiteness remove them and rinse them in a fresh water bath. Once the parts are clean dry them as much as possible then let them sit for a few hours to let all the water in the nooks and cracks evaporate.

-carefully reassemble the figure, test fitting everything along the way before screwing things back together.

-if everything goes smoothly you should have a nice white figure.

-in the event paint and stickers come off be prepared to apply repro labels and repaint the figure.

I guess it's a risky project, but after the results I achieved with Jetfire I feel it was worth the effort.