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Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

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Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:52 am

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There's one thing I really dont like about too much transformers toys. So much of the altmode just end up as useless kibble that is not used for the robot mode. Mainly, the backpacks and floating panels. Doors and wings can also count to a certain extent. Usually, you start with a perfect altmode. Then the robot just look like he didnt transform, but wear the altmode as a suit.

A bad offender in the panels category. Many alternators, Best Wars, and many movie toys suffer from it. Instead of having these panels just floating around, why not having them wraping around the limbs or body to give more mass? FE Bulkhead is a very good example in succeeding at doing this. That back made out of the car roof can rarely pass if it's well integrated and make it look like part of the body. Too often, it fail. Leader DotM Sentinel Prime also succeed because the panels dissapear in the legs and become a bitchin' cape. Classic Voyager Optimus Prime is an example of a missed opportunity. The arm panels flop around uselesly while they could have easely wrap around the forearms.

Wings and door-wings. This is the lesser offender because most of the time, it's what that define the character like G1 Starscream and Movie Bumblebee. Still, that a very big mass just hanging there uselesly. A mass that could have been used to build the actual body. Best example to deal with this problem is RTS voyager Lugnut (wings become arms) and the 2007 Movie voyager seeker (wings are part of the massive torso.)

The biggest sinner is the dreadful backpack. Some robot wear up to half the toy on their back! Many times, it's due to a gimmick. Still, many times it's just lazy designing. So much material get wasted on the back. Material that could have gone to the actual body parts of the robot. Also, most often than not, it make the bot back heavy and it have difficulty to stand. Some altmodes start big and impressive only to nd up with a small robot because there's so much plastic wasted on the back. Some unfortunate examples: Armada Starscream (gimmic) Energon Dreadwing (gimmick and floating panels) Beast Machine that big mantha ray what-its-name (Gimmick and floating panels) Universe Silverbolt (Entire jet mode on the back) Cybertron Leader Megatron (gimmic) Cybertron Thunderblast (entire vehicle mode) ect... The ones that got the backpack right are the ones that MUST have a backpack for a good reason, either for function or by design. Like any instances were Optimus Prime have a wing upgrade and litterally wear a jetpack. Also Animated Wreckgar who use the backpack of his shell-forming as an actual backpack to store all that infinijunk for comedy purpose.

For me, what make a Transformers truly perfect (appar for the good look in all modes and the transformation fun) are the ones who use every single parts of their altmodes for the robot. No backpack (except when it's logical and not a waste), no useless pannelings (well integrated "back-car-roofs" dont count), and no HUGE wings or door just hanging off (tiny ones dont count).
The so some of the best Transformers are:
-- G1 Optimus Prime
-- G1 Soundwave
-- G1 cassettes (any)
-- RiD megatron (I dont know but I can forgive bad-ass demon wings)
-- Beast Wars Optimus Primal
-- any Super Go Bots
-- Armada Tidalwave
-- 2007 Voyager Movie Starscream
-- Animated Lugnut (The still superior RTF one disqualify because of the entire tail of the plane hanging on his back instead of converting into a hand-held weapon like the Animated version)
-- Animated Oilslick
-- Cybertron Starscream (voyager and supreme)
-- DotM Megatron
-- FE Bulkhead
Ect... yes, "ect" because so many do it perfectly right.

So, tl;dr,
a perfect Transformers use ALL the altmode parts for the robot mode without wasting any as huge and useless floating panels or heavy and ginormous backpack.

So, what do you think about that issue? Do you have some Transformers toys that you think waste so much of their altmode on the backpack or in floating panels or wings? What are they and how could they have improved?
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Mykltron » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:39 am

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Movie Brawn. Total shellformer.

Classics Galvatron.

Best integration of all alt mode parts is possibly Leader Starscream. Turning those wings into such a bulky body is very impressive.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby RhA » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:23 am

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Mykltron wrote:Best integration of all alt mode parts is possibly Leader Starscream. Turning those wings into such a bulky body is very impressive.


Best TF in... 5 years? Something like that.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Dagon » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:26 am

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Mykltron wrote:
Best integration of all alt mode parts is possibly Leader Starscream. Turning those wings into such a bulky body is very impressive.



Yeah, that Starscream is a real engineering masterpiece. I prefer my Starscreams to have the larger, G1-ish wings and I'd like the movieverse SS if he had said wings, but the fact that the wings on the toy at least become the heft of the body suits me fine.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby MGrotusque » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:40 am

You guys are talkin crazy talk about that SS mold. I hate it! :BLACKEYE:
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Mykltron » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:03 pm

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monstergrotusque wrote:You guys are talkin crazy talk about that SS mold. I hate it! :BLACKEYE:

Is that because you hate the look? It is a marvel of engineering design.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:16 pm

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I concur that HftD Leader Starscream is one of the best engeneered Transformers ever. It's because of that very toy that I started appreciating the movie look of Starscream.

Speaking of masterful designs...

One thing I like about the Animated toy line is not much toys have the backpack and floating panels problem. Animated Bulkhead have his floating panels over his shoulders, but the are kinda forgivable like wings because it's part of his official look. Animated Prowl, Blurr, and Rodimus are all cars that dont have floating panels. Not even the "roof backpack"! Now that's creative engeneering. I heard that Prime RiD Vehicon does the same with brio but I could never have one in hand so I cannot tell.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby MGrotusque » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:46 pm

Mykltron wrote:
monstergrotusque wrote:You guys are talkin crazy talk about that SS mold. I hate it! :BLACKEYE:

Is that because you hate the look? It is a marvel of engineering design.


Yeah. It's the look that i can't stand. I'm talking out of my ass a bit because i've never actually held one in my hand and transformed it but i've developed a massive amount of disdain towards it just because of the way that whole design looks in bot mode.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:57 pm

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monstergrotusque wrote:
Mykltron wrote:
monstergrotusque wrote:You guys are talkin crazy talk about that SS mold. I hate it! :BLACKEYE:

Is that because you hate the look? It is a marvel of engineering design.


Yeah. It's the look that i can't stand. I'm talking out of my ass a bit because i've never actually held one in my hand and transformed it but i've developed a massive amount of disdain towards it just because of the way that whole design looks in bot mode.


Overquoting to tell you that I was like you at first. I HATED that seashell-shaped robot. Then, I gave the Leader Starscream it's chance when I found it at only 40$+taxes at my local TrU. I was so blown away by this toy that I loved the look ever since.

Give it it's chance. Buy a used one if you have to. I'm pretty sure once you have the thing in hand, you will change your mind.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby quickmixed » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:28 pm

2 best kibble-less figs in recent memory for me are Prime RID Soundwave and RTS Jazz. The Jazz mold, while simple, is one of the best yet.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby craggy » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:44 pm

quickmixed wrote:2 best kibble-less figs in recent memory for me are Prime RID Soundwave and RTS Jazz. The Jazz mold, while simple, is one of the best yet.

RTS is wearing a car t-shirt though.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby quickmixed » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:01 pm

craggy wrote:
quickmixed wrote:2 best kibble-less figs in recent memory for me are Prime RID Soundwave and RTS Jazz. The Jazz mold, while simple, is one of the best yet.

RTS is wearing a car t-shirt though.


True, but it works. I think I'm just blinded by my love for this mold.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:04 pm

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craggy wrote:
quickmixed wrote:2 best kibble-less figs in recent memory for me are Prime RID Soundwave and RTS Jazz. The Jazz mold, while simple, is one of the best yet.

RTS is wearing a car t-shirt though.


Still, a "car T-shirt" is good because it's part of the robot, not a discarded "parasite" that just float around on the body.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Valandar » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:17 pm

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In the animated line, pretty much nothing beats Prowl for a kibble-free robot mode. In other lines, I like FoC Optimus (IMHO, a more interesting vehicle mode and a less stiff looking bot mode than WFC), the Classics style (generations etc) Lambo twins, Kupp and Swerve, and Cyclonus... there's several with little to no kibble that really rock the transform.

On the other hand, there's figures I like BECAUSE the kibble gives them character. The G1 and Classics Seekers just wouldn't be the same without their wings, any version of Jazz or the Datsun brothers, and so on.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Mykltron » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:21 am

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craggy wrote:
quickmixed wrote:2 best kibble-less figs in recent memory for me are Prime RID Soundwave and RTS Jazz. The Jazz mold, while simple, is one of the best yet.

RTS is wearing a car t-shirt though.

But he looks damned close to the cartoon.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Handels-Messerschmitt » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:49 am

-Kanrabat- wrote:Overquoting to tell you that I was like you at first. I HATED that seashell-shaped robot. Then, I gave the Leader Starscream it's chance when I found it at only 40$+taxes at my local TrU. I was so blown away by this toy that I loved the look ever since.

Give it it's chance. Buy a used one if you have to. I'm pretty sure once you have the thing in hand, you will change your mind.


What they really should do is give it a new head and deco and then release it as Apeface.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby SJ21 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:32 am

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Handels-Messerschmitt wrote:What they really should do is give it a new head and deco and then release it as Apeface.


And this, my friends, is brilliant.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby xyl360 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:04 am

It does seem that most modern designs since the Beast era are based around the idea of having an inner robot wearing their alt mode like a shell. I don't mind it too much most of the time, especially if the kibble as it were lends itself to the look and feel of the bot mode, like door wings or beast wings/tusks/whatever. It's only somewhat annoying when the kibble gets in the way of articulation, but that can usually be worked around, at least for most standard poses.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Handels-Messerschmitt » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:43 am

xyl360 wrote:It does seem that most modern designs since the Beast era are based around the idea of having an inner robot wearing their alt mode like a shell.


I don't know about that. There are obviously more figures that have at least some parts basically just fold out but you get plenty of fairly chunky figures as well. A lot of early stuff may have had less kibble but a lot of it also didn't have articulation or good proportions. It's easy to avoid kibble when the vehicle mode is a block and the transformation scheme is "stand up on end, pull to extract thighs from boots".

To some extent I just view a certain amount of dangly bits as part of the transformer aesthetic. It can go overboard but there has to be some sacrifice made at the size and price most figures are at.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby PrymeStriker » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:48 am

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I think FE Starscream does a good job of packing away his jet mode kibble in robot. However, the robot kibble does a terrible job of hiding itself in jet mode.

AM Breakdown does similarly to Starscream. The kibble from vehicle mode is stored nicely, and then you have the kneecaps sticking out the rear in truck mode.

I'm really impressed by PRiD Vehicon's ability to hide kibble in both modes, however. It's amazing how the whole front and top of the car mode becomes his legs.

Brilliant.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Handels-Messerschmitt » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:24 am

I have yet to see PRiD Vehicon for myself but what I've seen online does impress me. I hope they put that technique to good use for more stuff. I want to see a boat like that, they're rare and tend to be panelicious.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby RodimalToyota » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:22 pm

PrymeStriker wrote:I think FE Starscream does a good job of packing away his jet mode kibble in robot. However, the robot kibble does a terrible job of hiding itself in jet mode.

AM Breakdown does similarly to Starscream. The kibble from vehicle mode is stored nicely, and then you have the kneecaps sticking out the rear in truck mode.

I'm really impressed by PRiD Vehicon's ability to hide kibble in both modes, however. It's amazing how the whole front and top of the car mode becomes his legs.

Brilliant.



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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Mykltron » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:44 am

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PrymeStriker wrote:I'm really impressed by PRiD Vehicon's ability to hide kibble in both modes, however. It's amazing how the whole front and top of the car mode becomes his legs.

Brilliant.


That still impresses me. Remember when pics were first published/leaked? Everyone thought they were photoshopped to remove the kibble. Apart from the limited knees he's almost perfect.

SJ21 wrote:
Handels-Messerschmitt wrote:What they really should do is give it a new head and deco and then release it as Apeface.


And this, my friends, is brilliant.

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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Ravage XK » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:38 am

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Its a fine line for me. I do not like my bots to have half a car or whatever hanging off their back but I do like the parts of the vehicle to be integrated into the bots body rather than hidden away.

Alternators had back kibble due mainly to their realistic interiors, no way to do much with the roof or windows other than have them fold up a bit. Without an interior the roof could split and be part of and arm or leg. You just have to accept certain trade offs.
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Re: Floating panels, backpacks and wings. So much waste!

Postby Handels-Messerschmitt » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:00 am

Mykltron wrote:Triple Changer or GTFO.


His ape mode is his robot mode. He is an ape robot. Why would he need two flavours of primate?
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