Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

then we seem to disagree, and counterpunch if ya want to get nasty then you might as well just ban me.

I'll tell you two big things that jumped out at me when I received my first TFC Toys Hercules figure Exgraver.

1. The packaging and presentation. It screamed professional grade, and immediately thought to myself these guys are going to the next level and actually competing with Has/Tak on every level.

2. The simplicity of the figure. It achieved all three modes in spectacular fashion, and yet there was nothing overly complex. I immediately thought to myself why the Hell didn't Has/Tak do this?

El Duque wrote:I'll tell you two big things that jumped out at me when I received my first TFC Toys Hercules figure Exgraver.

1. The packaging and presentation. It screamed professional grade, and immediately thought to myself these guys are going to the next level and actually competing with Has/Tak on every level.

2. The simplicity of the figure. It achieved all three modes in spectacular fashion, and yet there was nothing overly complex. I immediately thought to myself why the Hell didn't Has/Tak do this?

perhaps your right el duque. sorry I've had a bad day and did not mean to insult.

El Duque wrote:I'll tell you two big things that jumped out at me when I received my first TFC Toys Hercules figure Exgraver.

1. The packaging and presentation. It screamed professional grade, and immediately thought to myself these guys are going to the next level and actually competing with Has/Tak on every level.

2. The simplicity of the figure. It achieved all three modes in spectacular fashion, and yet there was nothing overly complex. I immediately thought to myself why the Hell didn't Has/Tak do this?

I gotta agree on both counts. TFC's packaging looks like what I would expect from a 'collectors' line (assuming Hasbro ever actually does one) and it's right up there with some of the Takara packaging I've seen in the past (which has outshined Hasbro's for years now).

Regarding the modes, simplicity of engineering/transformation, I gotta agree again. Hasbro is trying only now to 'simplify' things for the kids more, but everything they change feels like a step backwards. Parts not locking into place so that when you move a figure at all, stuff flops around, wheeled vehicles seldom ever have all 4 wheels touching the ground no matter how hard you try or how 'perfectly' you transform it.

Hasbro is looking to make profitable figures, the third parties are trying to make a profit by catering to their market. There's a big difference in motivation there, and it's really starting to show.

njb902 wrote:

El Duque wrote:I'll tell you two big things that jumped out at me when I received my first TFC Toys Hercules figure Exgraver.

1. The packaging and presentation. It screamed professional grade, and immediately thought to myself these guys are going to the next level and actually competing with Has/Tak on every level.

2. The simplicity of the figure. It achieved all three modes in spectacular fashion, and yet there was nothing overly complex. I immediately thought to myself why the Hell didn't Has/Tak do this?

perhaps your right el duque. sorry I've had a bad day and did not mean to insult.

No need for apologies my friend. Just different strokes for different folks. If you like FOC Bruticus and he brings you enjoyment, that's great. I'm still enjoying mine, just as individual figures.

xyl360 wrote:

El Duque wrote:I'll tell you two big things that jumped out at me when I received my first TFC Toys Hercules figure Exgraver.

1. The packaging and presentation. It screamed professional grade, and immediately thought to myself these guys are going to the next level and actually competing with Has/Tak on every level.

2. The simplicity of the figure. It achieved all three modes in spectacular fashion, and yet there was nothing overly complex. I immediately thought to myself why the Hell didn't Has/Tak do this?

I gotta agree on both counts. TFC's packaging looks like what I would expect from a 'collectors' line (assuming Hasbro ever actually does one) and it's right up there with some of the Takara packaging I've seen in the past (which has outshined Hasbro's for years now).

Regarding the modes, simplicity of engineering/transformation, I gotta agree again. Hasbro is trying only now to 'simplify' things for the kids more, but everything they change feels like a step backwards. Parts not locking into place so that when you move a figure at all, stuff flops around, wheeled vehicles seldom ever have all 4 wheels touching the ground no matter how hard you try or how 'perfectly' you transform it.

Hasbro is looking to make profitable figures, the third parties are trying to make a profit by catering to their market. There's a big difference in motivation there, and it's really starting to show.

1. so ia say hercules, or giant, to be more along the lines of a masterpiece? if so then how can you compare the sets?

2. nice thoughts btw

njb902 wrote:so do you consider say hercules, or giant, to be more along the lines of a masterpiece? if so then how can you compare the sets?

That's a tough one actually. Both sets are good, but very different. I have to give the nod to TFC though:

• The larger scaled figures really works for the Constructicons
• They look more like the original Constructicons in individuals robot modes
• The integration of the forearms is brilliant, and if you prefer a more G1 look opposed the IDW look the upcoming add-on set allows for that option as well

I have no idea how big toy business works, but in my simple way of looking at this Takara should have just contacted these guys prior to production and offered them a licensing deal.

MakeToys Giant is a good set, and I really like the vehicle and combined modes, but the individual robots really don't look like Constructicons to me. Still a great though.

El Duque wrote:Are we willing to concede that the Hasbro/Takara's design staff just aren't as talented their competitors?

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=88006&start=40#p1404050

orangeitis wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

njb902 wrote:lets see on the one hand you have a $600 dollar 3rd party, and on the other a $60 dollar hasbro/takara......which one again is a waste of plastic?

This argument does not make sense to me.

Is cost a component in objectively evaluating the quality of a figure?

I mean, of course it's something to consider but no one puts a BMW next to a Kia and calls the BMW a piece of garbage because they can't afford it.

Actually, njb902 didn't say anything about not being able to afford the $600 figure(at least not in the post you quoted). There's a huge difference in not being able to afford something expensive versus not thinking the toy is worth the expense. Maybe one would even rather have 5 Bruticuses(Brutici?) than one Hercules... who knows?

I know it's easy if you think that the expensive one is bar none the best the market has to offer to assume that everyone else thinks so too and just claims to dislike it because they merely can't afford it, but you must understand that people do have different opinions than you do, regardless of how seemingly unlikely it is.

Counterpunch wrote:Perhaps the price makes one figure a better suit for a particular buyer but there is zero, absolutely zero question that the recent 3rd party combiners are better combining robot figures than FoC Bruticus in any color scheme when considering engineering.

If it's going to be an honest discussion at least keep it in the realm of reasonable

But that also can be debated. There is more to consider than amount of articulation, size, transformation, or number of parts being used. We must also consider that Hasbro has many other aspects to their toy engineering that limit what they can and can't practically make. The main and IMO most obvious one is that Hasbro isn't aiming for adult collectors, they're aiming at kids. That does not necessarily include the detail they put on the figure, but the aesthetics of the figure, the pricing, and the safety of the toy.

Hasbro has to adhere to modern-day toy safety standards, which hinder the construction of a toy a lot.Sharp parts need to be dulled or configured for less risk to the young consumers. The toys have to survive drop tests so parts won't fly off and injure or kill a random bystander. The toy mustn't look like a weapon to a law enforcement officer so the wielder of the toy won't get shot in self-defense.

But there's more. The toys must be set at a price that appears affordable to the average parent. Most parents won't bother with a 6-inch robot toy if it costs too much, no matter how good an adult collector might think it looks. The toy also has to be easy to understand for the average consumer, which helps on designing costs.

And considering all those rules, let's take a look at Fall of Cybertron Bruticus again. Okay, modern day 5-bot combiner with at least deluxe-sized component bots, check. An average-level of modern-day articulation on both component bots and all combined formations, check. A "scramble city"-type gimmick that raises play value and chances of completing a full combined form, check. Zero combiner kibble so consumers won't lose a whole giant robot if they lose a piece while playing, check. Component weapons combine, check. Cheap enough for parents to buy(not to mention the components all looking different), check. Plenty of colors to choose from, check.

Considering all of the rules Hasbro engineers had to adhere to while making a modern-day combiner, yes, it could be debated whether or not it has better engineering than 3rd-party combiners. Consider if the 3rd-party engineers worked for Hasbro, limited by the same rules. What are the odds that they could come up with something better?

Yeah, comparing Hasbro's Bruticus to a 3rd-party Combiner like the Giant is like comparing a Toyota to a Bentley. Different markets, different standards. If you can afford a Bentley, good for you, but the Toyota is good enough for 99% of us.

GuyIncognito wrote:Yeah, comparing Hasbro's Bruticus to a 3rd-party Combiner like the Giant is like comparing a Toyota to a Bentley. Different markets, different standards. If you can afford a Bentley, good for you, but the Toyota is good enough for 99% of us.

I never really intended for this to turn into a Hasbro combiners vs. Third-Party combiners topic, but maybe it was inevitable. The issue here is that third-party combiners have shown us what's possible, they changed the game. Hasbro/Takara isn't keeping up. Like I said before Hasbro could have produced Giant or Hercules for fraction of the price. I own all the figures in question: FansProject Colossus, MakeToys Giant, TFC Toys Hercules, and FOC: Bruticus. I'm not seeing anything on the third-party combiners that couldn't be replicated by Hasbro/Takara, and Takara doesn't even have to meet the safety standards that Hasbro does.

You actually bring up a rather interesting point by comparing a Bentley to a Toyota, because Toyota can deliver the same features as a Bentley for a fraction of the cost. For that matter my sister-in-law just bought a KIA Sorento that is freakin' loaded. It's got everything you'd expect to find on a high end luxury car, again at fraction of the cost. If anything this only further proves equal features can be delivered at lower cost.

orangeitis wrote:

El Duque wrote:Are we willing to concede that the Hasbro/Takara's design staff just aren't as talented their competitors?

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=88006&start=40#p1404050


Ok look, you are a fan, others are NOT fans deal with it. Stop trying to force that your opinion (as you keep trying to push it) is the law as it is not, it is simply your opinion.

Lets see what we have established here.
You love the mold.
Others do not

Two varying opinions. Lets agree to disagree alright.

Let those that have him and are not happy say their peace, let those that do not have him yet can make their own judgments over photos and youtube videos say their peace, and stop trying to convince them.

Only warning about this as I am sick of getting mass PM's about this subject.

Cyber Bishop wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

El Duque wrote:Are we willing to concede that the Hasbro/Takara's design staff just aren't as talented their competitors?

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=88006&start=40#p1404050


Ok look, you are a fan, others are NOT fans deal with it. Stop trying to force that your opinion (as you keep trying to push it) is the law as it is not, it is simply your opinion.

Lets see what we have established here.
You love the mold.
Others do not

Two varying opinions. Lets agree to disagree alright.

Let those that have him and are not happy say their peace, let those that do not have him yet can make their own judgments over photos and youtube videos say their peace, and stop trying to convince them.

Only warning about this as I am sick of getting mass PM's about this subject.

Look, I have never ever tried to push any of my opinions as facts on this board. I state my opinions, sometimes just noting them, but I keep them separate from arguments of facts. I'm sorry if you can't tell that from my posts.

I'm all fine with agreeing to disagree, but when someone is flat out wrong, whether I agree or disagree with them, I have a right to address it. I mean, unless of course you've changed the rules of your board.

If I am actually arguing with an opinion rather than facts, please clarify to me what it is so I can correct myself, because I'm not aware that I'm doing anything wrong. If not, please leave me alone about this.

orangeitis wrote:Look, I have never ever tried to push any of my opinions as facts on this board. I state my opinions, sometimes just noting them, but I keep them separate from arguments of facts. I'm sorry if you can't tell that from my posts.

I'm all fine with agreeing to disagree, but when someone is flat out wrong, whether I agree or disagree with them, I have a right to address it. I mean, unless of course you've changed the rules of your board.

If I am actually arguing with an opinion rather than facts, please clarify to me what it is so I can correct myself, because I'm not aware that I'm doing anything wrong. If not, please leave me alone about this.

You keep stating them over and over. I am not the one that cannot tell, I am responding to complaints against you.
If someone is flat out wrong, ok so if I say I don't like Bruticus because he does not look right with onslaught being so small, is this wrong?? This is my opinion.

See this is where the problem lies, it is ok pointing out if someone is stating wrong facts but ones opinion even though it is not shared by you is not wrong. That is the complaints I keep getting about you.

And as far as me leaving you alone, read the rules of this board

general-rules-for-seibertron-com-s-forums-t14626.php

And pay attention to this one.

11. Mod's the Word
If a moderator/administrator has to step in and hand out warnings/bans or other disciplines adhere to their wishes. Do not treat the warning as grounds for a personal vendetta. Warnings are carefully thought out, and flaming, bating or harassing a staff member because of it will only lead to a harsher reprimand.

As long as you are on this site and I and the other mods run it, we will address problems reported to us whether you like it or not.

Cyber Bishop wrote:You keep stating them over and over. I am not the one that cannot tell, I am responding to complaints against you.
If someone is flat out wrong, ok so if I say I don't like Bruticus because he does not look right with onslaught being so small, is this wrong?? This is my opinion.

See this is where the problem lies, it is ok pointing out if someone is stating wrong facts but ones opinion even though it is not shared by you is not wrong. That is the complaints I keep getting about you.

No, I do not see where the problem lies. For the example you stated, I don't think I've given my clear opinion about it. In fact, I too think that Onslaight would've looked better if he was larger.

I did not state my opinions as facts. I state facts as facts, at least to my best abilities.

Earlier in this thread, I have misread OP on my first post. That was cleared up. On my last post before you posted, I was quoting a post of mine where I pointed out facts. I do not understand where the problem is, though I do appreciate you taking the time to try explaining.

Cyber Bishop wrote:And as far as me leaving you alone, read the rules of this board

general-rules-for-seibertron-com-s-forums-t14626.php

And pay attention to this one.

11. Mod's the Word
If a moderator/administrator has to step in and hand out warnings/bans or other disciplines adhere to their wishes. Do not treat the warning as grounds for a personal vendetta. Warnings are carefully thought out, and flaming, bating or harassing a staff member because of it will only lead to a harsher reprimand.

As long as you are on this site and I and the other mods run it, we will address problems reported to us whether you like it or not.

I guess you didn't understand me. I said if there's no problem, leave me alone. Is there a rule saying that you can pick on random users if there is no problem?

If you're gonna judge me just because there are complaints about me without investigating any further, then I won't stay on your board any longer.


Edit: I'll state my point clearly this time, and nothing here at all is of my own opinion. Fact: 3rd party companies are not limited to the same standards as Hasbro's products. Fact: FoC Bruticus must be limited by those safety standards to be put on sale in stores. Fact: The odds of 3rd party engineers being hired by Hasbro increasing the quality of their products is very low.

Those are the points I was making. They're not my opinion at all, especially even if I favor FoC Bruticus. They are subjective facts. The quality of an argument is not determined by the credentials of its author, but by the merits of the claims. It is irrelevant what either side's opinion is on the issue at hand.

El Duque wrote:

njb902 wrote:so do you consider say hercules, or giant, to be more along the lines of a masterpiece? if so then how can you compare the sets?

That's a tough one actually. Both sets are good, but very different. I have to give the nod to TFC though:

• The larger scaled figures really works for the Constructicons
• They look more like the original Constructicons in individuals robot modes
• The integration of the forearms is brilliant, and if you prefer a more G1 look opposed the IDW look the upcoming add-on set allows for that option as well

I have no idea how big toy business works, but in my simple way of looking at this Takara should have just contacted these guys prior to production and offered them a licensing deal.

MakeToys Giant is a good set, and I really like the vehicle and combined modes, but the individual robots really don't look like Constructicons to me. Still a great though.

hmmmmm that is something to think about. I think I'm to used to arguing with rated x about this stuff to be objective anymore. I guess I can't get over paying that much for any toy, the means aren't a problem so much as the will. I tend to be happy with hasbro products because they are cheap and for the most part well made.

I do think you would be more satisfied by switching out the limbs, but like ya said different strokes.

orangeitis wrote:Edit: I'll state my point clearly this time, and nothing here at all is of my own opinion. Fact: 3rd party companies are not limited to the same standards as Hasbro's products. Fact: FoC Bruticus must be limited by those safety standards to be put on sale in stores. Fact: The odds of 3rd party engineers being hired by Hasbro increasing the quality of their products is very low.

A lot of people (not just you) bring up this issue of third-party companies not having to comply with safety standards, but no one ever points out what these third-parties are doing to that is outside of them. As I said before I own the FansProject Crossfire sets, MakeToys Giant, TFC Toys Hercules, and FOC: Bruticus. I'm not seeing anything on the third-party figures that would keep them from being produced by Hasbro/Takara.

Plastic quality? Hasbro could pump their type plastic into these molds. (although recently I would say third-party plastic is trumping Hasbro's) Sharp corners? Hasbro could round them off. Small parts? Hasbro figures come with small parts also. Drop test? I'm not going to drop my Hercules to find out, but can't image he would fare any worse than say Unicron. Overly complex design? Ever transformered a ROTF figure?

Not trying to pick on you. I've just never heard anyone establish just what these safety concerns are.

El Duque wrote:A lot of people (not just you) bring up this issue of third-party companies not having to comply with safety standards, but no one ever points out what these third-parties are doing to that is outside of them. As I said before I own the FansProject Crossfire sets, MakeToys Giant, TFC Toys Hercules, and FOC: Bruticus. I'm not seeing anything on the third-party figures that would keep them from being produced by Hasbro/Takara.

Plastic quality? Hasbro could pump their type plastic into these molds. (although recently I would say third-party plastic is trumping Hasbro's) Sharp corners? Hasbro could round them off. Small parts? Hasbro figures come with small parts also. Drop test? I'm not going to drop my Hercules to find out, but can't image he would fare any worse than say Unicron. Overly complex design? Ever transformered a ROTF figure?

Not trying to pick on you. I've just never heard anyone establish just what these safety concerns are.

No, you are totally in the right to question someone else's claim. It's good to question everything, IMO. =)

I don't know everything Hasbro does that limits their toys, but I do know of a few things.

-Safety requirements and tests Hasbro toys have to go through, like drop tests and projectiles tested to see if they can choke a baby to death or not. Since 3rd party companies are aimed at collectors who mainly display their pieces, they don't need to worry about things like that. Huge toys like Hercules would fail the drop test fast.

-Transformation complexity. Hasbro stated after the RoTF line that they were going to reduce transformation complexity because they were getting complaints from parents that their Transformers figures were getting too complex for their target audience. 3rd party toys aren't aimed at kids, so again, they don't need to worry about things like that. The entirety of the Fall of Cybertron line seems to be a victim of this, as well as DotM and TFP sans the first editions.

-Hasbro can't sell TFs that turn into realistic firearms, while 3rd parties can. This ties more into safety requirements and admittedly don't have to do with combiners at the moment, but I think it's noteworthy, as it's still a limitation onto Hasbro that 3rd party companies don't have.

orangeitis wrote:

El Duque wrote:A lot of people (not just you) bring up this issue of third-party companies not having to comply with safety standards, but no one ever points out what these third-parties are doing to that is outside of them. As I said before I own the FansProject Crossfire sets, MakeToys Giant, TFC Toys Hercules, and FOC: Bruticus. I'm not seeing anything on the third-party figures that would keep them from being produced by Hasbro/Takara.

Plastic quality? Hasbro could pump their type plastic into these molds. (although recently I would say third-party plastic is trumping Hasbro's) Sharp corners? Hasbro could round them off. Small parts? Hasbro figures come with small parts also. Drop test? I'm not going to drop my Hercules to find out, but can't image he would fare any worse than say Unicron. Overly complex design? Ever transformered a ROTF figure?

Not trying to pick on you. I've just never heard anyone establish just what these safety concerns are.

No, you are totally in the right to question someone else's claim. It's good to question everything, IMO. =)

I don't know everything Hasbro does that limits their toys, but I do know of a few things.

-Safety requirements and tests Hasbro toys have to go through, like drop tests and projectiles tested to see if they can choke a baby to death or not. Since 3rd party companies are aimed at collectors who mainly display their pieces, they don't need to worry about things like that. Huge toys like Hercules would fail the drop test fast.

-Transformation complexity. Hasbro stated after the RoTF line that they were going to reduce transformation complexity because they were getting complaints from parents that their Transformers figures were getting too complex for their target audience. 3rd party toys aren't aimed at kids, so again, they don't need to worry about things like that. The entirety of the Fall of Cybertron line seems to be a victim of this, as well as DotM and TFP sans the first editions.

-Hasbro can't sell TFs that turn into realistic firearms, while 3rd parties can. This ties more into safety requirements and admittedly don't have to do with combiners at the moment, but I think it's noteworthy, as it's still a limitation onto Hasbro that 3rd party companies don't have.

Let me offer some counter points>

Drop test - Hercules is no bigger than Unicron, and as I said earlier, I feel he would probably fare better. He might pop apart into his component parts, but if anything that would probably decrease his likelihood of actually breaking into harmful pieces. Same would go for Giant.

Complexity - not really a safety concern, more of a marketing issue. Again though, the Hercules figures are surprisingly simplistic. The Giant toys are a little more complex, probably on par with the DOTM toys.

The realistic firearms issue - like you said, not really relevant to the combiner debate, but keep in mind Takara doesn't have that limitation. Look at MP Megatron.

El Duque wrote:Drop test - Hercules is no bigger than Unicron, and as I said earlier, I feel he would probably fare better. He might pop apart into his component parts, but if anything that would probably decrease his likelihood of actually breaking into harmful pieces. Same would go for Giant.

Separating into the individual components would be the problem. A stability malfunction resulting in Hercules drop off a shelf and hitting the floor with Not-Scrapper pop off headed straight toward a 10-year-old's face wouldn't be too pretty. As for Unicron, it don't break too easily, and parts that do pop off(particularly the alt mode shell halves) don't have enough girth to cause too much damage.

El Duque wrote:Complexity - not really a safety concern, more of a marketing issue. Again though, the Hercules figures are surprisingly simplistic. The Giant toys are a little more complex, probably on par with the DOTM toys.

Yeah, that's why I didn't group it with the safety concerns. And you're right, Hercules isn't too complex. The main issue with it might be size.

El Duque wrote:The realistic firearms issue - like you said, not really relevant to the combiner debate, but keep in mind Takara doesn't have that limitation. Look at MP Megatron.

That's definitely true.

Allow me to chime in fellas.

This "set" is pathetic. All of them are crap in their own special way.

Onslaught has been down-sized from a voyager to be able to merge with the others. Much like Galvatron, he's meant to have more tooling but that was forfeit for lack luster connectors.

Brawl. What a god damned mess. Leg mode is upside down, robot mode won't stand worth a bastard crap. Tank mode isn't that bad mind you...

Vortex. Just like that game. His rotors are on his arms in the game too right? They're not? Well that doesn't make any sense. It would have been so much easier to just put them on his tail with a slide.

Blast-Off. Vehicle mode isn't bad. Robot mode isn't half bad either. Looks like big Kraft Caramel. Arm mode is brutal. Again, nothing like the in game model.

Swindle. Perhaps the best of the worst. Arms don't have anywhere to clip into so they keep up where shoulders should be. Vehicle mode is okay, but gun is in the wrong place and again, leg mode is upside down.

Bruticus is just a waste of shelf space. I'll keep them in their individual robot modes as I'm hoping they'll grow on me.

I'm really thinking of cancelling my G2 pre-order and I might just pass on the wreckers. It just seems like whoever tried to take the concept off of the paper and put it in plastic failed to hit fans expectations. Seems so... half-assed.

Normally I don't say a whole lot about my opinions about retail Transformers figures. I like to take pictures instead of getting into debates about opinions about figures. I'm going to make an exception with FOC Bruticus because word needs to get out that this thing is a POS.

Sorry for my extremely blunt honesty, but Hasbro and Takara Tomy have to do better than this, especially with all of the strong competition from 3rd party companies (and considering my stance on being pretty anti-3rd party products, that comment should have some extra weight coming from me). It's fragile. Full of stress marks. Broken tab on Blast Off. Torso's too thin. Something's not quite right with the Bruticus head mold. No light piping. Horrible limbs in Bruticus mode. Connector tabs are horrible. You can't pose this figure into any action poses. His legs can't support the weight if they're not pegged in. Weapons won't connect properly to combined mode (i.e. Vortex's swords/blades pegs are slightly different sizes and one won't stay pegged into the other weapons).

I became so frustrated with this toy while doing its gallery that I didn't even bother doing alternate configurations or anything special. Thing just kept falling over. I've read and watched all sorts of different configurations people are trying to come up with, and after trying some of them I decided ...

If you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig.

Vortex's robot mode is the only redeeming thing about this set. But the colors are so off that even that is tough for me to admit.

C'mon Hasbro ... I know you can do better than this. This figure is really disappointing. Not recommended! If you absolutely must see this train-wreck for yourself, purchase the least expensive version you can get your hands on.

Down_Shift wrote:It just seems like whoever tried to take the concept off of the paper and put it in plastic failed to hit fans expectations. Seems so... half-assed.

Agreed.

Seibertron wrote:

Down_Shift wrote:It just seems like whoever tried to take the concept off of the paper and put it in plastic failed to hit fans expectations. Seems so... half-assed.

Agreed.

Double agreed.

If anything this might be a step backward from the Energon Combiners.

I feel like I spent $120 on a fancy box.

The toys really aren't that good overall. No reason why Bruticus shouldn't be a better figure than what he is.

El Duque and Counterpunch have summed up my thoughts quite well.

El Duque wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Down_Shift wrote:It just seems like whoever tried to take the concept off of the paper and put it in plastic failed to hit fans expectations. Seems so... half-assed.

Agreed.

Double agreed.

If anything this might be a step backward from the Energon Combiners.

I agree with this as well. Only problem I had with the Energon Combiners were their horrible hands and feet. The overall concept was the right idea, and they all had the right bulk, plus the individual robot modes were all very stellar.

I almost feel like the Power Core Combiners are a better product than FOC Bruticus. I'm not a fan of PCC, but at least you know what you were getting with those ... plus they're consistent AND stable, regardless of how I feel about them. For the record, I do not want more PCC but Bruticus is definitely a step in the wrong direction.