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he's leader of one FACTION, not all...then again that'll be a shout-out to armada optimus prime who declared that he's the leader of all transformers.

Optimus Primevil wrote:he's leader of one FACTION, not all...then again that'll be a shout-out to armada optimus prime who declared that he's the leader of all transformers.

The other FACTION is without leadership.
yea, he could declare the leader of all transformers but hard to tell if the remaining decepticons would follow his lead or just simply wait for a new decepticon leader.
but they can just go haywire because they have nothing to lose...

possible substitute leaders are busy 'debating' who should lead while inside a space transport. that or whoever's fourth in command

Phategod1 wrote:The Long and short of it is Bay Never understood the character of Optimus. Bay made him your typical Kill everything hero. The G1 Optimus would never Kill a defenseless opponent, There is no honor in that. Optimus killing with cheap one liners is not Optimus at all.

I couldn't have said this better myself.

twiztid_soundwave wrote:

Phategod1 wrote:The Long and short of it is Bay Never understood the character of Optimus. Bay made him your typical Kill everything hero. The G1 Optimus would never Kill a defenseless opponent, There is no honor in that. Optimus killing with cheap one liners is not Optimus at all.

I couldn't have said this better myself.

Too bad Bay didn't write the movie. And who gives a damn about honor? Either way they're going to die.

The thing that gets me, is that people understate the power the director has in regards to re-writes. If something goes on that the director didn't like, he has, full right to revise, and change it if he wishes, See Richard Donner's superman, their were many things cut, and changed by the directors wants. Bay is given FAR too little negativity where people use the writers as an excuse for bad character representation

But as this is, and always was, HIS vision, His Prime is just that, Bay's view of what Prime should do, and what he should be, taking nothing g1 or anything in regard. Hence, why he gets bashed for it

Phategod1 wrote:The Long and short of it is Bay Never understood the character of Optimus. Bay made him your typical Kill everything hero. The G1 Optimus would never Kill a defenseless opponent, There is no honor in that. Optimus killing with cheap one liners is not Optimus at all.

i think it would've been nice if michael patterned his optimus with toki from fist of the northstar, practically the most saintly figure in a crap sack world full of pillaging (strangely not much raping) and violence.

he'll still kill you but he does it humanely (triggering all the pleasure receptors in your body while it's contorting in ways the body should not be able to do).

Optimus Primevil wrote: don't the autobots have any 'holding facilities' on cybertron?

Maybe. But there not on Cybertron. There on earth.

Optimus Primevil wrote:and what makes megatron (and sentinel) any different from the roman and british empires who conquered and enslaved yet history sings praises of their accomplishments? then again megatron would be more alike with chinggis khan and history speaks more of his brutality than his accomplishments.?

Um, no history does not praise slavery as their acomplishments. Don't know who is teaching you history, but i'd switch classes.

Optimus Primevil wrote: in the dark horse star wars mini-series crimson empire, the main baddie carnor jax was wanted captured alive by the rebellion because of all his knowledge of the empire. with him they could end the war in a matter of months (as opposed to years). even though megatron and sentinel were off-planet for millenia, they still have forces loyal to them and by killing them off, those forces would've probably gone underground and engage in hit-and-run tactics. a skilled tactician could've used them (megatron and sentinel) as bait to draw those forces into a trap.

Again, your asuming that there is a facility large and strong enough to house them. And even if that were the case, you run the risk of the enemy forces staging a rescue and putting more lives in danger. Sentinel Proved that he was as strong, aif not stronger than Optimus. Atempting to hold him would have been to high of a risk. And concidering both Megs and Sentinel's ideal were to destroy/enslave the human race and that they can potentially lie for thousands of years, holding them captive wasn't feasible from logical stand point.

Optimus Primevil wrote:but then again, they are sentient and thus have the right to freedom

So its their right for freedom, but it it ok for them to take our freedom away? Sentinel and Megatron wanted to use Humans as slave labor, clean us dry of natural resources and were responisble for not only Autobot deaths, but hundreds of human deaths as well. Yet you believe they should still have the rights of freedom? Really?

twiztid_soundwave wrote:The thing that gets me, is that people understate the power the director has in regards to re-writes. If something goes on that the director didn't like, he has, full right to revise, and change it if he wishes, See Richard Donner's superman, their were many things cut, and changed by the directors wants. Bay is given FAR too little negativity where people use the writers as an excuse for bad character representation

But as this is, and always was, HIS vision, His Prime is just that, Bay's view of what Prime should do, and what he should be, taking nothing g1 or anything in regard. Hence, why he gets bashed for it

Actually, Prime was more "G1" in the first TF movie, but ya know what? People did nothing but bitch and complain on how much of a pussy he was getting the crap beaten out of him by Megatron. So Bay & Co. responded by making him the bad ass he should be. But again, people still bitched and complained that he to violent. So please don't give this garbage that this Prime is solely based on "Bay's vision", cause that is wrong. And please get over the G1 one referenaces. This is not G1, and even when the reboot comes in several years, don't expect it to be based off G1 either.

You say this is his vision and want to put it all on him. Where do you fit Hasbro's responisblity in all of this? They own the rights to TF. Not Bay. Its there product thats being represented. Not Bay's. They have the final say on what goes. Cause in the end, there one of the main parties that are highering him to represent thier product. So how about pointing your anger/fustration on the party the truly calls the shots.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote: don't the autobots have any 'holding facilities' on cybertron?

5150 Cruiser wrote:Maybe. But there not on Cybertron. There on earth.

so what's stopping them to go back or is such a hell-hole that optimus doesn't want to go back? probably because based on the ending of the first movie he basically tells them to go to earth.

Optimus Primevil wrote:and what makes megatron (and sentinel) any different from the roman and british empires who conquered and enslaved yet history sings praises of their accomplishments? then again megatron would be more alike with chinggis khan and history speaks more of his brutality than his accomplishments.?

5150 Cruiser wrote: Um, no history does not praise slavery as their acomplishments. Don't know who is teaching you history, but i'd switch classes.

history class doesn't tell it that...directly, it's mostly pop media like movies(like in gladiator where the conquering romans are up against the celts. the celts are portrayed as savage barbarians who beheaded a roman officer and sent the corpse on a horse, by default the civilized romans look like the good guys) and tv shows. then again hitler was basing his third reich on the roman empire and whatever they did he tried to make it even better (one of his plans was to make a Colosseum in berlin that is three times or so bigger than the original)

Optimus Primevil wrote: in the dark horse star wars mini-series crimson empire, the main baddie carnor jax was wanted captured alive by the rebellion because of all his knowledge of the empire. with him they could end the war in a matter of months (as opposed to years). even though megatron and sentinel were off-planet for millenia, they still have forces loyal to them and by killing them off, those forces would've probably gone underground and engage in hit-and-run tactics. a skilled tactician could've used them (megatron and sentinel) as bait to draw those forces into a trap.

5150 Cruiser wrote: Again, your asuming that there is a facility large and strong enough to house them. And even if that were the case, you run the risk of the enemy forces staging a rescue and putting more lives in danger. Sentinel Proved that he was as strong, aif not stronger than Optimus. Atempting to hold him would have been to high of a risk. And concidering both Megs and Sentinel's ideal were to destroy/enslave the human race and that they can potentially lie for thousands of years, holding them captive wasn't feasible from logical stand point.

you even read the part about the using them as bait for a trap?

Optimus Primevil wrote:but then again, they are sentient and thus have the right to freedom

5150 Cruiser wrote:So its their right for freedom, but it it ok for them to take our freedom away? Sentinel and Megatron wanted to use Humans as slave labor, clean us dry of natural resources and were responisble for not only Autobot deaths, but hundreds of human deaths as well. Yet you believe they should still have the rights of freedom? Really?

they're sentient are they? so by optimus' logic they are entitled to freedom...hence why he kills them all instead(according to the movies).

twiztid_soundwave wrote:The thing that gets me, is that people understate the power the director has in regards to re-writes. If something goes on that the director didn't like, he has, full right to revise, and change it if he wishes, See Richard Donner's superman, their were many things cut, and changed by the directors wants. Bay is given FAR too little negativity where people use the writers as an excuse for bad character representation

But as this is, and always was, HIS vision, His Prime is just that, Bay's view of what Prime should do, and what he should be, taking nothing g1 or anything in regard. Hence, why he gets bashed for it

exactly

this this this

Optimus Primevil wrote: so what's stopping them to go back or is such a hell-hole that optimus doesn't want to go back? probably because based on the ending of the first movie he basically tells them to go to earth.

Yes. The planet is basicly destroyed. This was explained in the first movie.

Optimus Primevil wrote: you even read the part about the using them as bait for a trap?).

Yes, but again, how do you plan on
1.- Housing them
2.- You run a very high risk more lives being put in danger in an attempted decepticon rescue.
3.- now you must create a facility that is not large enough, and strong enough to house all the captured decepticons.

Optimus Primevil wrote:they're sentient are they? so by optimus' logic they are entitled to freedom...hence why he kills them all instead(according to the movies).

Your reading his line out of context. In the first movie Ironhide asks..
"Why are we fighting to protect the humans? There such a primitive race." Optimus answer was.."Freedom is the right of all seintient beings". Meaning just because there not as advanced as we are does not mean they don't have the right to be free. The decepticons are planning to take our freedom and chocies away from us. That is not cool under Optimus watch.

so it's ok for the humans to capture and dissect advanced beings and not the other way around?

Optimus Primevil wrote:so it's ok for the humans to capture and dissect advanced beings and not the other way around?

When did we disect any advance beings? If your referring to megatron we never decected him.

But i'll ask again, how do you plan on holding any decpticon prisoners?

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote:so it's ok for the humans to capture and dissect advanced beings and not the other way around?

When did we disect any advance beings? If your referring to megatron we never decected him.

But i'll ask again, how do you plan on holding any decpticon prisoners?

chop off zee limbs, surround the area with earth's toxic waste(well if cybertron's such a hell hole now then prime won't object to the earth's governments to use it as a dumping ground now would he?) then blow off aging earth nukes when someone gets on the perimeter.

harsh, yes but movie prime's all ready ruthless.

megatron was being picked off one piece at a time because he's the only specimen sector 7 had at the time. bumblebee's the one they'd tear open to see what's ticking.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote: don't the autobots have any 'holding facilities' on cybertron?

Maybe. But there not on Cybertron. There on earth.

Optimus Primevil wrote:and what makes megatron (and sentinel) any different from the roman and british empires who conquered and enslaved yet history sings praises of their accomplishments? then again megatron would be more alike with chinggis khan and history speaks more of his brutality than his accomplishments.?

Um, no history does not praise slavery as their acomplishments. Don't know who is teaching you history, but i'd switch classes.

Optimus Primevil wrote: in the dark horse star wars mini-series crimson empire, the main baddie carnor jax was wanted captured alive by the rebellion because of all his knowledge of the empire. with him they could end the war in a matter of months (as opposed to years). even though megatron and sentinel were off-planet for millenia, they still have forces loyal to them and by killing them off, those forces would've probably gone underground and engage in hit-and-run tactics. a skilled tactician could've used them (megatron and sentinel) as bait to draw those forces into a trap.

Again, your asuming that there is a facility large and strong enough to house them. And even if that were the case, you run the risk of the enemy forces staging a rescue and putting more lives in danger. Sentinel Proved that he was as strong, aif not stronger than Optimus. Atempting to hold him would have been to high of a risk. And concidering both Megs and Sentinel's ideal were to destroy/enslave the human race and that they can potentially lie for thousands of years, holding them captive wasn't feasible from logical stand point.

Optimus Primevil wrote:but then again, they are sentient and thus have the right to freedom

So its their right for freedom, but it it ok for them to take our freedom away? Sentinel and Megatron wanted to use Humans as slave labor, clean us dry of natural resources and were responisble for not only Autobot deaths, but hundreds of human deaths as well. Yet you believe they should still have the rights of freedom? Really?

twiztid_soundwave wrote:The thing that gets me, is that people understate the power the director has in regards to re-writes. If something goes on that the director didn't like, he has, full right to revise, and change it if he wishes, See Richard Donner's superman, their were many things cut, and changed by the directors wants. Bay is given FAR too little negativity where people use the writers as an excuse for bad character representation

But as this is, and always was, HIS vision, His Prime is just that, Bay's view of what Prime should do, and what he should be, taking nothing g1 or anything in regard. Hence, why he gets bashed for it

Actually, Prime was more "G1" in the first TF movie, but ya know what? People did nothing but bitch and complain on how much of a pussy he was getting the crap beaten out of him by Megatron. So Bay & Co. responded by making him the bad ass he should be. But again, people still bitched and complained that he to violent. So please don't give this garbage that this Prime is solely based on "Bay's vision", cause that is wrong. And please get over the G1 one referenaces. This is not G1, and even when the reboot comes in several years, don't expect it to be based off G1 either.

You say this is his vision and want to put it all on him. Where do you fit Hasbro's responisblity in all of this? They own the rights to TF. Not Bay. Its there product thats being represented. Not Bay's. They have the final say on what goes. Cause in the end, there one of the main parties that are highering him to represent thier product. So how about pointing your anger/fustration on the party the truly calls the shots.[/[quote]


This This This

I liked bay version of prime

Optimus Primevil wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote:so it's ok for the humans to capture and dissect advanced beings and not the other way around?

When did we disect any advance beings? If your referring to megatron we never decected him.

But i'll ask again, how do you plan on holding any decpticon prisoners?

chop off zee limbs, surround the area with earth's toxic waste(well if cybertron's such a hell hole now then prime won't object to the earth's governments to use it as a dumping ground now would he?) then blow off aging earth nukes when someone gets on the perimeter.

harsh, yes but movie prime's all ready ruthless.

That is barbaric and sadistic, killing them is far more humane.

it's kinda difficult what counts as sadistic in regards to the movie tf's anatomy...swindle got beheaded and still managed to function. bumblebee got his legs blown off and he's still ticking. brawl/devastator managed to get up after all that crap he took.

i guess if it's like sideswipe who managed to pull off a one-liner describing how good he is when he cleaved sideways in half, that probably counts because it (depends on the viewer) sound like he had fun doing it.

Being nothing more than a torso locked away in a toxic wasteland sounds like hell. I think anyone would rather be dead than in that condition.

yup, off course that what i would do. prime won't do that. but 5150 cruiser was asking how would such a plan should take place and i gave him one scenario.

well diffrent people have got diffrent views. iv only watched the films including the cartoon one so i know nothings apart from the films.
everyone has freedom, youv just got to be carful of what you do thats all.

Optimus Primevil wrote: chop off zee limbs, surround the area with earth's toxic waste(well if cybertron's such a hell hole now then prime won't object to the earth's governments to use it as a dumping ground now would he?) then blow off aging earth nukes when someone gets on the perimeter.

harsh, yes but movie prime's all ready ruthless.

megatron was being picked off one piece at a time because he's the only specimen sector 7 had at the time. bumblebee's the one they'd tear open to see what's ticking.

Wow. I mean, really?

Your suggesting that cutting off the limbs of captured decepticons, surrounding them in toxic waste, and then setting off neucular weapons whitch would result in the instant death of them, as well as anyone within a 50 mile raduis is far better plan then just killing them in battle? Not to meantion the radiation that would linger and cause the slow death of thousands. This in your eyes is a better idea and more humane..

you do realize it's on cybertron or are you still thinking earth? because of course it's whacked to do that plan on earth and no government would allow that on their soil to happen.

death squads all the way then

Optimus Primevil wrote:you do realize it's on cybertron or are you still thinking earth? because of course it's whacked to do that plan on earth and no government would allow that on their soil to happen.

death squads all the way then

we were talking about earth. When did the conversation shift to Cybertron? Remember, they have no way to get back to Cybertron. SO i'll give you one more chance to validate your aurgument. On eath, how do you plan on imprisoning captured Decepticons??

oh sorry, i assumed they can go home via space bridges, if not go to space manually (they were capable of space flight in the first movie after all).

i'm sure the UN would rather imprison decepticons rather than have an armed group hunting, rounding them up and killing them all...you know like jews during world war II

Optimus Primevil wrote: i'm sure the UN would rather imprison decepticons rather than have an armed group hunting, rounding them up and killing them all...you know like jews during world war II

1.- After three attempts you still have not answered How you plan on imprisoning captured decepticon??

2.- Your Aurgument of the UN rather imprisoning them vs. hunting them is invalid since they have been hunting them. If they wanted to imprison them then they would have made provision to do so already instead of hunting them in ROTF.

And how can you compare their imprisoning to Jews in WWII??? Jews were not attempting to kill us and take over our planet.
I'm trying to be calm and respectfull as i can, but you keep avoid the questions asked and then using completely non relevent aurguments to attempt to back yours up and non of it is working to your benifit.