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Retread wrote:Sorry, not to make the cons seem any less badass (always thought they were), but was reflector in the ark attack? Would he count as 11 to 18 or 13?

The Reflector team were only on the original team in the 'toon. As far as the toys and comics are concerned, the original line-ups were:

Autobots:

Optimus Prime
Prowl
Jazz
Ironhide
Ratchet
Wheeljack
Bumblebee
Sideswipe
Sunstreaker
Bluestreak
Mirage
Hound
Trailbreaker
Huffer
Gears
Windcharger
Brawn
Cliffjumper

Decepticons:

Megatron
Starscream
Soundwave
Thundercracker
Skywarp
Ravage
Buzzsaw
Laserbeak
Frenzy
Rumble

Besides what do you mean, "11 to 18"? Reflector was three 'bots (or three clones if you believe the 'toon), how would they make it up to 18 without redefining our concept of modern mathematics?

EDIT: Sorry, just clicked that you meant the ratio of Decepticons to Autobots.

The scene from the movie where ratchet, ironhide, etc bite it was relatively brief. The way i think about it is that remaining time that the ship travelling to earth wasn't shown on screne. In that time the decepticons could have easily damaged the remaning autobots (since Ironhide got his head blown off) beyond repair.

I'm pretty sure Prowl only took one shot before his eyes flared up then burnt out. From a single Constructicon no less... i think it was Scavenger. Plus he's the only one who actually got confirmed as dead, since he's the only one you see get interned into the space tomb. Ironhide could, with alot of imagination, still be alive... just very very ugly now. Oh, and i forgot about the Reflector bots... cause they were dumb

Goes to show how inept the normal rank and file must be. But i mean... Optimus Prime is supposed to be the strongest normal sized Transformer, I can imagine him being able to beat a Decepticon to near death with as few blows as he threw in that fight. Whats more astonishing to me though, is how some of the Cons he shot on his way to Megatron were fine like five minutes later, and other were screwed. I cite Soundwave as an example. He certainly got it at least as bad as Brawn, and yet, Brawn died, and Soundwave felt he was ok enough to take control of the Decepticons while still on Astrotrain.

fromwednesday747 wrote:Goes to show how inept the normal rank and file must be. But i mean... Optimus Prime is supposed to be the strongest normal sized Transformer, I can imagine him being able to beat a Decepticon to near death with as few blows as he threw in that fight. Whats more astonishing to me though, is how some of the Cons he shot on his way to Megatron were fine like five minutes later, and other were screwed. I cite Soundwave as an example. He certainly got it at least as bad as Brawn, and yet, Brawn died, and Soundwave felt he was ok enough to take control of the Decepticons while still on Astrotrain.

don't forget he carried megs to astrotrain during the retreat

Lets not forget too that the series was aired on afternoon tv where they were restricted with what they could air. The movie was not restricted in such a way. The decepticons were pretty bad ass though, although as crafty as Megatron was, sometimes he was too smart for his own good.

A great example is when they damage prime and Wheeljack has to have a part from his lab on cybertron to fix him. Starscream is like lets attack now while they are confused and weakened. Megs is like no lets set a elaborate trap instead and not only do theynot kill the autobots they set the trap for but they get Prime operational instead

Ramrider wrote:

Retread wrote:Sorry, not to make the cons seem any less badass (always thought they were), but was reflector in the ark attack? Would he count as 11 to 18 or 13?

The Reflector team were only on the original team in the 'toon. As far as the toys and comics are concerned, the original line-ups were:

Autobots:

Optimus Prime
Prowl
Jazz
Ironhide
Ratchet
Wheeljack
Bumblebee
Sideswipe
Sunstreaker
Bluestreak
Mirage
Hound
Trailbreaker
Huffer
Gears
Windcharger
Brawn
Cliffjumper

Decepticons:

Megatron
Starscream
Soundwave
Thundercracker
Skywarp
Ravage
Buzzsaw
Laserbeak
Frenzy
Rumble

Besides what do you mean, "11 to 18"? Reflector was three 'bots (or three clones if you believe the 'toon), how would they make it up to 18 without redefining our concept of modern mathematics?

EDIT: Sorry, just clicked that you meant the ratio of Decepticons to Autobots.

Sorry, I'm going by sketchy 20 year old memories. Reflector probably wasn't in MTME. Just looked at the original catalog scan and it only has the bots you listed. Did they add any of the 2nd series of toys in the 1st season of the toon?

You might even say the 'Cons were outnumbered worse. If you count the seekers vs the autobot cars (minus ratchet and wheeljack) as the warriors of the groups, its 3:1.

reflector was definately in the MTME, I own the first season on DVD and watched it again a few months ago. They even had reflector look alikes as generic soliders. (you can tell they are look alikes because the real reflector team speaks in unison)

Oh, yeah, Reflector's in MTMTE. Thundercracker uses them in camera mode to check out the truck. But by rights they shouldn't have appeared, because in the comics, and indeed year 1 of the toys, they weren't included.
Actually, if you go by the 'toon, the 'cons would have been more outnumbered, because they initially didn't have Frenzy or Buzzsaw either.

Check out the Transformers show bible. Page 34 lists the Decepticons originally appearing in the show. Actually, it even says not to use Reflector, although they turned up anyway.

hmm...

well, i just watched the movie tonight, and i have to retract a part of one of my statements. Not all the Autobots are that easy to kill, i have to admit that Ironhide and Ratchet took it like men. They both took multiple shots to the chest before going down... even though neither one of them shot any Cons, despite them being huddled together.

Also... what the **** happened to Hound and Sunstreaker for the rest of the movie? They're on the shuttle that Prime arrived on, then ne'er to be seen again.