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G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

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G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby gbm » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:35 am

So, which is the better purchase? If you had to choose one to spend some $ on for a vintage purchase. :-?


ps, I already have a G1 Devasator and G1 Bruticus.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby gbm » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:58 am

Anyone know of this place? This is a KO, I'm aware, but to order from here.....seem ok? lol

Also, do these come w/sticker sheets? I noticed the pics didn't have any stickers on them.

http://www.ichinamall.com/buy/wholesale-228461.htm

thanks
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby Optimum Supreme » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:38 pm

Motto: "You have no chance to survive make your time."
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gbm wrote:So, which is the better purchase? If you had to choose one to spend some $ on for a vintage purchase. :-?


ps, I already have a G1 Devasator and G1 Bruticus.


I don't know that there's one good answer. I like Defensor better in combined form, I like Hot Spot better than Motor Master, but I like the other 4 Stunticons better than the Protectobots. I really don't like the scale issues on the pbots, with a motorcycle the same size as a helicopter.

But I think the one thing that might just very slightly put things over for Defensor is the way he's the one G1 combiner whose head you can never lose (assuming you don't break Hot Spot). Of course you've still got the feet and fists and other various doodads to worry about, though. I just always thought it was cool how his big robot head was built in.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby fenrir72 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:06 pm

Motto: "Power to the strong and the right!"
Weapon: Plasma Cannon
Get both. Beware of KOs though.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby Valandar » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:56 pm

Motto: "It doesn't matter if the glass is half full or half empty, only that you work to make it full."
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I always thought Defensor was the best looking gestalt mode of all the Scramble City combiners, at least in proportions, etc.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby gbm » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:56 pm

fenrir72 wrote:Get both. Beware of KOs though.


I own an original G1 Devastator (from my childhood), and I got a great deal on a G1 Bruticus (in great shape)....so I was seriously considering getting a KO of the either Def/Menasor; just so I can finally have a brandy new looking version.

From what I read and see on YouTube, people speak pretty highly of the KO versions of both of these.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby fenrir72 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:24 pm

Motto: "Power to the strong and the right!"
Weapon: Plasma Cannon
I beg to differ. The reviewers don't tell ALL.

KO of Menasor, well you can tell with the chrome on Motormaster's wheels, there's a break in the application of the hubcaps.

KO on the Protectobot side, the wheel rivets look shoddy and the decals on Streetwise look cheap. The positive on Hotspot is that it uses the "metal" chest + extra paint apps on his headlights. I know 'cause I saw and handled one already.

I hope this helps you in your decision.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby gbm » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:20 am

fenrir72 wrote:I beg to differ. The reviewers don't tell ALL.

KO of Menasor, well you can tell with the chrome on Motormaster's wheels, there's a break in the application of the hubcaps.

KO on the Protectobot side, the wheel rivets look shoddy and the decals on Streetwise look cheap. The positive on Hotspot is that it uses the "metal" chest + extra paint apps on his headlights. I know 'cause I saw and handled one already.

I hope this helps you in your decision.



Nice, thanks for the info, helps for sure!

Wonder what a decent condition G1 would go for....gonna have to take a peek on Ebay I guess.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby fenrir72 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:42 am

Motto: "Power to the strong and the right!"
Weapon: Plasma Cannon
Btw, I forgot to mention, the wheel rivets on the rest of the Stunticons are quite rusty or easily corrodes. The originals DO also corrode but it ain't half as bad as the KO.

Without sounding like a broken record, it took me like nearly 25 years just to complete Menasor and Defensor (for the former I had the "limbs" while the latter, the "torso". I had initially wanted to get the KO sets myself(also a buddy of mine(who owns an online shop) allowed me to "eyeball" the KOs themselves, quality wise, if you didn't know the difference, they CAN be substitutes but given that owning certain parts of the set.........well I just had to settle for an "easter egg" hunt in ebay. Of which I got lucky by winning the Euro Menasor torso( loose) and Blades (MISB) from two very upstanding Brits and the rest of the Euro Protectobots (loose but 100% complete with labels and slightly rusty Streetwise (he's the only one who retained his metal parts) from another equally nice Greek two years ago.

So be prepared to get your guts all twisted and your brain scrambled :lol: before engaging in such an endeavor (on my part I don't think I want to go through that again) of bidding/loosing in ebay.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby Cyberpath » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:56 pm

Valandar wrote:I always thought Defensor was the best looking gestalt mode of all the Scramble City combiners, at least in proportions, etc.
I agree.

Menasor looks pretty good with the CrazyDevy pieces on; but they are so expensive, I decided to do without.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby Stormrider » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:46 pm

Weapon: Atom-Smasher Cannon
Is it possible for Takara to reisusse either as an Encore set? Are all the molds still in good condition?
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby fenrir72 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:16 pm

Motto: "Power to the strong and the right!"
Weapon: Plasma Cannon
Guard City and the Aerialbots were pressed around 1991-1992. That was together with Battle Gear and Star Convoy iirc.
So if Star Convoy and Bruticus got the re-issue treatment (heck, even old devastator too which is a much older mold) hopefully it would be economically feasible to do so.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby Breakdown 2099 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:57 am

Stormrider wrote:Is it possible for Takara to reisusse either as an Encore set? Are all the molds still in good condition?


With todays technology, they could do anything. If these KO companies can reissue Sunstreaker, Menasor etc, then Takara could too. And don't tell me they can't, it's amazing what you can do with computers these days.
They just choose not to and blame it on "mold degradation". Yeah, sure... Some piss-poor backyard Chinese operation can pump out all 5 of the Dinobots, but you can't?


Anyway, buy Menasor. All Defensor does is point and use forcefields.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:27 am

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Breakdown 2099 wrote:
Stormrider wrote:

Anyway, buy Menasor. All Defensor does is point and use forcefields.[/color]

And blow up Bruticus with a single shot. ;)
Not caring about scale since 1984. Just like Hasbro.

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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:45 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
Weapon: Dual Bladed Sword
Breakdown 2099 wrote:
Stormrider wrote:Is it possible for Takara to reisusse either as an Encore set? Are all the molds still in good condition?


With todays technology, they could do anything. If these KO companies can reissue Sunstreaker, Menasor etc, then Takara could too. And don't tell me they can't, it's amazing what you can do with computers these days.
They just choose not to and blame it on "mold degradation". Yeah, sure... Some piss-poor backyard Chinese operation can pump out all 5 of the Dinobots, but you can't?


Nope, not without some fans crying "New molds for reissues? Why not make them so they have more articulation? More show-accurate?" Besides, bootleggers easily ignore R&D, filing patents, copyrights and other legal fees. And TakaraTomy would actually have to locate the lost/stolen molds to base the designs on. Those costs easily add up. :-B

Back to Menasor vs. Defensor, I say Defensor wins out. Then again, I'm biased. :lol:
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby Stormrider » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:54 pm

Weapon: Atom-Smasher Cannon
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Breakdown 2099 wrote:
Stormrider wrote:Is it possible for Takara to reisusse either as an Encore set? Are all the molds still in good condition?


With todays technology, they could do anything. If these KO companies can reissue Sunstreaker, Menasor etc, then Takara could too. And don't tell me they can't, it's amazing what you can do with computers these days.
They just choose not to and blame it on "mold degradation". Yeah, sure... Some piss-poor backyard Chinese operation can pump out all 5 of the Dinobots, but you can't?


Nope, not without some fans crying "New molds for reissues? Why not make them so they have more articulation? More show-accurate?" Besides, bootleggers easily ignore R&D, filing patents, copyrights and other legal fees. And TakaraTomy would actually have to locate the lost/stolen molds to base the designs on. Those costs easily add up. :-B

Back to Menasor vs. Defensor, I say Defensor wins out. Then again, I'm biased. :lol:


Sorry, my initial question was too vague. I meant to ask - Does Takara have the molds for the Stunticons and Protectobots? And if so, what is the chance of seeing them in the Encore series?
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:20 pm

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Funny you should ask. It's those two sets of molds that have been planned for use in G2, but only packaged samples emerged (well, and BotCon 1994 G2 Breakdown). It's possible they're lost, or in mold limbo since G2, then again, TakaraTomy nor Hasbro have said anything official.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby Breakdown 2099 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:11 pm

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:
Breakdown 2099 wrote:
Stormrider wrote:
Anyway, buy Menasor. All Defensor does is point and use forcefields.[/color]

And blow up Bruticus with a single shot. ;)


Oh, B.O.T... How I loathe that episode :lol:



JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Nope, not without some fans crying "New molds for reissues? Why not make them so they have more articulation? More show-accurate?" Besides, bootleggers easily ignore R&D, filing patents, copyrights and other legal fees. And TakaraTomy would actually have to locate the lost/stolen molds to base the designs on. Those costs easily add up. :-B



Please, no more with the articulation! My brain exploded reading the FoC Grimlock VS Classics VS MP thread on here. As for the toys themselves, I suspect that we'll be seeing the merry-go-round of figures from the TFC and Encore issues for a while longer.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby RhA » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:00 am

Motto: "BRING ME DANGER!"
Defensor. He's the better of the two. But, if you can, get both.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby Dagon » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:50 am

Motto: "Ain't nobody got time fo dat....."
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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Breakdown 2099 wrote:
Stormrider wrote:Is it possible for Takara to reisusse either as an Encore set? Are all the molds still in good condition?


With todays technology, they could do anything. If these KO companies can reissue Sunstreaker, Menasor etc, then Takara could too. And don't tell me they can't, it's amazing what you can do with computers these days.
They just choose not to and blame it on "mold degradation". Yeah, sure... Some piss-poor backyard Chinese operation can pump out all 5 of the Dinobots, but you can't?


Nope, not without some fans crying "New molds for reissues? Why not make them so they have more articulation? More show-accurate?" Besides, bootleggers easily ignore R&D, filing patents, copyrights and other legal fees. And TakaraTomy would actually have to locate the lost/stolen molds to base the designs on. Those costs easily add up. :-B



Yeah, ok, but aren't we aware by now that "fans will complain about everything"? You know, that thing that happens whenever anything TF related is released and the fandom cries itself catatonic?
And, if costs are so prohibitive that TT/Hasbro/whoever wouldn't want to try reissuing these because of costs, then why ever bother putting out any newly designed toys? Surely, R&D for a brand new, ground-up toy must be costly, so wouldn't it be more cost effective to design a toy once and then just constantly re-release it? Wouldn't it then make more sense to hunt down old molds and reuse them rather than develop new things? Or, is this another one of those instances where we're supposed to feel sorry for a company making a pretty large annual profit by producing things that people happily buy?
Sure bootleggers can bypass R&D and blah&blah, but remind me, how many Classics Seekers figures have been released? TT/Hasbro hardly use a mold once and then throw it away. How many slight variations of Bumblebee were there for each of the three movies, and how many variations of Deluxe BB does the PRime line have? A new paint job doesn't require two years of CAD and grey prototypes to get into the stores. It's the same basic thing with copyrights: TT "couldn't" reissue Omega Supreme becuase the rights belonged to someone else; we'll never get an Encore Omega Supreme becuase of copyrights; and when did we get him? 2008? If TT thought there could be a profit or an incentive, they will pursue it.

Not trying to make this an anti-business rant, but I'm just saying. If TT/Hasbro/anyone wanted to reissue *-cons or *-bots or anything, they could and would. The proof behind the viability of that hypothesis is that KO companies can/have/are doing it. Ok, it's not going to be easy for TT, they may have to find/repair molds, but last time I heard, business isn't something easy that other people just give you....it requires some effort.
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Re: G1 Menasor vs G1 Defensor

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:34 pm

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
Weapon: Dual Bladed Sword
Dagon wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Breakdown 2099 wrote:
Stormrider wrote:Is it possible for Takara to reisusse either as an Encore set? Are all the molds still in good condition?


With todays technology, they could do anything. If these KO companies can reissue Sunstreaker, Menasor etc, then Takara could too. And don't tell me they can't, it's amazing what you can do with computers these days.
They just choose not to and blame it on "mold degradation". Yeah, sure... Some piss-poor backyard Chinese operation can pump out all 5 of the Dinobots, but you can't?


Nope, not without some fans crying "New molds for reissues? Why not make them so they have more articulation? More show-accurate?" Besides, bootleggers easily ignore R&D, filing patents, copyrights and other legal fees. And TakaraTomy would actually have to locate the lost/stolen molds to base the designs on. Those costs easily add up. :-B



Yeah, ok, but aren't we aware by now that "fans will complain about everything"? You know, that thing that happens whenever anything TF related is released and the fandom cries itself catatonic?
And, if costs are so prohibitive that TT/Hasbro/whoever wouldn't want to try reissuing these because of costs, then why ever bother putting out any newly designed toys?


Simple: cost-effectiveness. The kids are more likely to yield a positive return on the investment, than we adult collectors are. Kids will buy anything that's cool (that's their theory at least), while we, the more informed collectors, are more reserved (again, their theory). In short, we pose more of a risk, especially when it comes to stuff kids normally wouldn't buy, in this case "old-fashioned, sucky" toys. :lol:

Surely, R&D for a brand new, ground-up toy must be costly, so wouldn't it be more cost effective to design a toy once and then just constantly re-release it? Wouldn't it then make more sense to hunt down old molds and reuse them rather than develop new things? Or, is this another one of those instances where we're supposed to feel sorry for a company making a pretty large annual profit by producing things that people happily buy?


That's Hasbro's current business practice: repainting to make the stores more likely to buy their stock, thus lengthening the financial viability of the mold. And hunting down old molds can be a fool's errand at times. With the constant relocation of production, some molds got left behind, only to be sold off as part of factory inventory when the new company moves in. Administrative nightmare ensues, toy mold CSI anyone?

Sure bootleggers can bypass R&D and blah&blah, but remind me, how many Classics Seekers figures have been released? TT/Hasbro hardly use a mold once and then throw it away. How many slight variations of Bumblebee were there for each of the three movies, and how many variations of Deluxe BB does the PRime line have? A new paint job doesn't require two years of CAD and grey prototypes to get into the stores. It's the same basic thing with copyrights: TT "couldn't" reissue Omega Supreme becuase the rights belonged to someone else; we'll never get an Encore Omega Supreme becuase of copyrights; and when did we get him? 2008? If TT thought there could be a profit or an incentive, they will pursue it.


That I readily agree with. I still consider Encore Omega Supreme and Sky Lynx "happy accidents", as with the merger with Tomy, those molds were suddenly available. Both toys were designed by ToyBox I believe, but it was Tomy who gave the order, thus the copyright befalls to that company.

Not trying to make this an anti-business rant, but I'm just saying. If TT/Hasbro/anyone wanted to reissue *-cons or *-bots or anything, they could and would. The proof behind the viability of that hypothesis is that KO companies can/have/are doing it. Ok, it's not going to be easy for TT, they may have to find/repair molds, but last time I heard, business isn't something easy that other people just give you....it requires some effort.


But whether or not the effort pays off in the end, who knows? All in all, there are a lot of factors in play that determine Hasbro's/TakaraTomy's decisions to pursue a reissue project, the least of which overall are fan demand and character popularity. But if TakaraTomy has the means, they *will* pull through.
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