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G1 worst cartoon ever?!?

Discuss anything about the Transformers cartoons and comics! You can discuss anything from G1 to Cybertron as well as the comics from Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW and more!

Postby Tammuz » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:04 am

Burnup Prime wrote:
Windsweeper wrote:G1 the worst cartoon ever? It's by no means as good as the comics but it's got the best pilot and movie spin off of any toon ever.

Plus what about modern crap like the Armada trilogy, Pokemon and the other mons, The Batman and Teen Titans?

Pokemon has a lot to answer for since it inspired the anime style in other cartoons.


modern stuff is WAY better than G1, people just don't see it because they are too stuck in the past

while that s true to an extent i wouldn't say that Energon is better than G1, it suffers fro the same lack of realistic plot OTT characters, granted it looks better, but it does have alot of over extended cry out the name of your uber attack as you do it scenes which get a little repetitive

it's pretty much the same **** but with better animation techniques. which considering how far CGI has developed in 20 years isn't really that inspiring, especially when you contrast with the CGI of beastwars or films like the last starfigher or Terminator 2, and their respective release dates.

the worst cartoon ever is rhubarb and custard
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Postby Damolisher » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:03 am

Leonardo wrote:But this is referring to just the cartoon. G1 also had the comics and the toys. Some of us grew up with Transformers by loving the comics and never even having seen the cartoon.


Yeah, but that's a very select handful. I mean, I've only recently discovered the comics myself, and I still prefer the cartoon, since it's what I've known, and gone by the longest. Either way, I don't use comic logic to apply to the cartoon, I don't use cartoon logic to apply to the comic, but still, I stand by the fact if it weren't for the popularity of the cartoon and toys, you'd have no Transformers past G1.
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Postby the purifyer » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:59 am

Burnup Prime wrote:it also had TOO MANY characters. at least with the modern stuff, it's more limited than before, so each character has personality to be explored

No, you are wrong. let's do the math here.
More characters=More toys=Happy me, with lots of cool toys.
:-P

The Unicron trilogy was terrible. Please just keep the Japanese FAR away from anyone creating a Transformers cartoon.
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Postby ChromedomeMK2 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:32 pm

the purifyer wrote:
Burnup Prime wrote:it also had TOO MANY characters. at least with the modern stuff, it's more limited than before, so each character has personality to be explored

No, you are wrong. let's do the math here.
More characters=More toys=Happy me, with lots of cool toys.
:-P

The Unicron trilogy was terrible. Please just keep the Japanese FAR away from anyone creating a Transformers cartoon.
Go watch Masterforce and Victory their the beast Anime Transformer ever. Personally I like thoese two series two better than Season 3 of G1
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Postby Primus C-00 » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:27 pm

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G1 is flawless!

Smite this blasphemy, purge our paradigm of this p thing that is bad!

:lol:
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Primus C-00 » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:18 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
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The problem I have with the modern cartoons, well Energon and Cybertron, is that the episodes (at least in English) end up being very formulaic.

They are either like episodes of Dragonball Z, with Prime and Megatron either talking or grunting a lot amping up their power for what turns out to be minimal conflict (Energon).

True G1 might not make it past censors for violence and other elements, but I'd rather watch that than two supposed enemies verbally masturbating themselves and each other for 20 mins.

Or... they're just an excuse for Prime to get another partner upgrade (Pretty much the entirety of Cybertron).

At least Armada and R.I.D. had something pertaining to a narrative in between these moments, and something pertaining to character development.

True Energon had Alpha Q, Kicker, but was anyone really interested? Oh wait, Team Ironhide!

:lol:

It's like you can almost hear the disappointment in David Kaye's voice as he reads the same dialogue for the bajillionth time.

:cry:

Hopefully TF : Animated will change all that...

<3
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Primus C-00 » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:34 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
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That said, watching Energon at 1am did had an idyllic dreamlike quality and of course these two caught my eye, but from what I have seen weren't really utilised much.

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Perhaps forming a rogue brigade with Starscream to stop Unicron and Megatron.

Or?

Have I said this before? A Kicker seduced my Unicron or Megatron!

:sad:
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Night Raid » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:08 pm

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G1 may not be the best, but it sure as heck ain't the worst.
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Postby Shadowman » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:15 pm

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It was bad, but it definitely was NOT the worst.
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Postby cor2879 » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:17 pm

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??? This article is stupid. You can't tell me that Transformers is worse than Pokemon, Power Rangers (not exactly a cartoon but it definitely counts) or He-Man! And that's just naming a few. Hey Transformers can be found lacking when compared to today's animation standards, but it also contains some very dark undertones and sometimes almost adult themes that are rare to find in any animated series (Zombie Optimus Prime anyone?) It's not an animation classic for the same reasons as Batman: the Animated Series or The Tick, but it's still up there in my book and always will be. Whoever wrote this article sucks and obviously hasn't watched many cartoons. 90% of the cartoons on Cartoon Network today are worse than Transformers...

Also how about X-Men (from the 90's). The animation in that one makes Transformers look like a work of art.
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Postby Shadowman » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:45 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
cor2879 wrote:Also how about X-Men (from the 90's). The animation in that one makes Transformers look like a work of art.


What? That's lightyears ahead of G1. At least they had decent plots. (However overused Apocalypse and Phoenix may be, then again, so is Unicron)
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Postby cor2879 » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:40 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
cor2879 wrote:Also how about X-Men (from the 90's). The animation in that one makes Transformers look like a work of art.


What? That's lightyears ahead of G1. At least they had decent plots. (However overused Apocalypse and Phoenix may be, then again, so is Unicron)


I won't deny that X-men had better writing but the animation was terrible. Yes, even compared to G1.
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Postby TheMuffin » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:42 am

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One of the worst cartoons ever? No. One of the more mediocre ones of our time. Certainly. Regardless of what many think, G1 was a shallow plot driven toy selling 20 minute commercial. Of course it interested you as a child because that was the whole idea behind it. But when you compare it to animated programs like Batman The Animated Series, Beast Wars, Avatar: The Last Airbender and Hell even Teen Titans, it falls ways short of the finish line. I'll always appreciate it for starting the franchise and helping to keep it going for over 20 years, but as a cartoon in itself there wasn't much there. The same can be said for He-Man, GI Joe and any other cookie cutter idea from the 80's including the cartoon version of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. People will always have fond memories of them, but in the end they were just basic product placement with a simple plot for each episode.
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:45 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
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TheMuffin wrote:One of the worst cartoons ever? No. One of the more mediocre ones of our time. Certainly. Regardless of what many think, G1 was a shallow plot driven toy selling 20 minute commercial. Of course it interested you as a child because that was the whole idea behind it. But when you compare it to animated programs like Batman The Animated Series, Beast Wars, Avatar: The Last Airbender and Hell even Teen Titans, it falls ways short of the finish line. I'll always appreciate it for starting the franchise and helping to keep it going for over 20 years, but as a cartoon in itself there wasn't much there. The same can be said for He-Man, GI Joe and any other cookie cutter idea from the 80's including the cartoon version of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. People will always have fond memories of them, but in the end they were just basic product placement with a simple plot for each episode.

G1 did product/character placement with such finesse, though. Even now 20 years later and jaded you don't notice it.

Call Of The Primitives for example.

And if anything is a 20 minute commercial it is Energon and Cybertron. True G1 is no Batman - T.A.S. but I'd rather watch 20 mins of Cullen grappling Welker than 20 mins of Chalk talking about teamwork for the bajillionth tithe...

(no offence to Chalk)

;;)

Tragically it goes without saying these days that any cartoon is essentially an advert. Every thing is product in the Omni-Multi-Market free for all.

I guess the questions are what we chose as consumers, or indeed whether we choose to consume or produce?
Last edited by Primus C-00 on Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Xion » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:55 am

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Who the heck says G1 sucks, G1 was one of the best series ever.
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:06 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
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...when deep-space exploitation ramps up, it will probably be the megatonic corporations that discover all the new planets and map them. The IBM Stellar Sphere. The Philip Morris Galaxy. Planet Denny's. Every planet will take on the corporate identity of whoever rapes it first. Budweiser World. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 23

Take me to the Tomy/Takara Hasbro twin system!

:P
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:44 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
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I think Transformers Animated is going to make up for and redeem anything post Armada...

:))
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby TheMuffin » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:59 am

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Primus C-00 wrote:I think Transformers Animated is going to make up for and redeem anything post Armada...

:))

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not. But if you're not. I believe you.
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:48 am

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No lies, no jokes TF : Animated is like:

"Woah"

;;)
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Insurgent » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:11 pm

Shadowman wrote:
cor2879 wrote:Also how about X-Men (from the 90's). The animation in that one makes Transformers look like a work of art.


What? That's lightyears ahead of G1. At least they had decent plots. (However overused Apocalypse and Phoenix may be, then again, so is Unicron)



Pheonix was only used twice in that series. Once was good, and once was when she was corrupted into evil. Sure, the comics probably used her alot more, but we are talking about the toon.

And at least Apocalypse had different plots every time he appeared. Unlike Unicron who can't really do much other than threaten to eat planets due to his sheer size.

There were some great plots in the x men toon.
Beast Wars FOREVER!

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Postby Skids » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:20 am

SeekerInAFakeMoustache wrote:I can't help but notice, too, the vast majority of the "worst cartoons of all time" there listed come from the eighties. Either eternity's shrunk since I was a moppet, or this is yet another example of the mysterious bias against the 'toons of Generation X (you know, the bias that likes to pretend "Dungeons & Dragons" or "The Mysterious Cities of Gold" didn't happen?). The description of "Jem" all but confirmed this suspicion, as under the trappings, it basically says, "Jem's actually not a bad show at all, but we're listing it anyway because it's contemporary with Transformers and Silverhawks." Sound logic, that.


Nail on the head.
Now don't get me wrong, the 1980s had some horrible cartoons.
How Turbo Teen even made it to air is one of the
greatest mysteries of the universe.

But I feel that Transformers was singled out because of its iconic connection to the era. Most of the animated shows of the era were in the same vein as TF, what many consider to be "glorified 30-minute commercials". However, TF managed to seperate itself from the pack in various ways. Using the formula first established in the G.I. Joe relaunch -- assigning characters to each individual robot, and taking extra care in giving them personality as well as character. Sometimes the voice alone did the trick (see: Soundwave).

I've maintained that the original Transformers had one of the best voice acting teams ever, as many of the voices on the show are memorable -- especially the most popular characters on the show. Otherwise, you wouldn't even see people incessantly trying to recreate them on Youtube nowadays.

When lists like these come out, I often wonder what the heck people are looking for in an animated show when they give such criticisms; if you're gonna knock Transformers for its plot holes, animation errors, and things like that, fine -- but that clearly was from someone who had never seen the television show.

Since G1 (and I mean all the way through Zone), I think only Beast Wars has been successful in really capturing the things that made the original so memorable (great voices, engaging storylines, and whatnot). It's a shame Beast Machines had robot designs that looked like pure dung (how do you go from Optimal Optimus to ... Monkey-bot and Monkey Mode?) -- that could have been a lot better.

Beast Wars II and Neo had awesome beast Transformers, but... all the criticisms you see in Armada and beyond showed its head there (one could even argue it showed as early as The Headmasters but that's a totally different post).

I like the robots (that aren't recolors or what not) from Armada and beyond -- they actually look the most like "Transformers" of anything that's been associated with the line in years. But when presented in the United States, Hasbro made the mistake of trying to create continuity where there isn't -- and the legal tape crapola that mucks up the logical "reimagining" of classic characters, the hasty dubbing (it was at least tolerable in Energon, but unbearable in Armada) and what have you...really brought those series down in the US. It's a shame, because it had many of the great voices from Beast Wars reprising appropriate roles (IMO, Gary Chalk and David Kaye should be this generation's Optimus Prime and Megatron unless they can get the originals full-time).

In short, if TF really was as crappy as that list (and others like it) says it was, no one would be talking about it today. It's why the truly horrible shows of the 1980s are forgotten by all who don't contribute to sites like Retrojunk and the like who have photographic memory of the real crap that got on TV back then.
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