Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Can someone explain how distribution works and fails? I don't understand how some toys come up extremely short in the U.S. markets, especially since Hasbro is HQ in the U.S and the U.S. makes up their largest market share for their line.

I would imagine that the marketing teams are coming up with manufacturing numbers during the planning phase, so how do they fall short?

I have a pretty laymen's understanding off the supply chain (someone with some expertise feel free to correct any of this) A simple version of the supply chain is

Manufacturer (Hasbro) ---> Distribution Center ----> Retail (Toys 'R Us)

Toys get shipped by Hasbro to Distribution Centers, which then get shipped to Retail Stores.

There's a lot of reasons why supply could get out of whack, but primarily it comes down communication and expected sales.

If Target says they need 10,000 Generation Deluxe cases, but Hasbro sends 12,000, you're going to have 2,000 sitting in a Distribution Center somewhere, which might later end up at discount stores like Tuesday Morning or Ross. There are other variables to this situation, like retail ordering more than Hasbro can provide, etc.

I think you're missing an important link here: the retail chain's warehouses. I know of at least one for my local stores in the (not-so) immediate area.

Ah yes. Most big box retailers have those. I believe that Walmart is the only one that doesn't.

this wave is shelf warming at the three TRU's in my town. however, i never once saw the ruination figures.

i dont get all the anger though. theres a new run on the way. if you cant find them in stores (or dont think you will) why not jump on the online retailers who are offering them again? if you really want them, theres your opportunity. as others have stated before, buying online is necessary sometimes and shipping runs about the same as gas money on the multiple hunting trips anyways.

and what i really dont get was the statement about having more faith in third parties than hasbro. third party figures are collector pieces first and foremost, all usually suffer from some form of QC, and you cant exactly walk into to walmart and buy a fansproject smart robin. so give hasbro a break already.

Good for those who missed it. I was able to find my Waspinator and Dreadwing during the Christmas season, and Skids around January. I had planned to pick up Goldbug just to say I have at least one use of the mold, but with Nightbeat's unveiling, forget him.

shajaki wrote:this wave is shelf warming at the three TRU's in my town. however, i never once saw the ruination figures.

i dont get all the anger though. theres a new run on the way. if you cant find them in stores (or dont think you will) why not jump on the online retailers who are offering them again? if you really want them, theres your opportunity. as others have stated before, buying online is necessary sometimes and shipping runs about the same as gas money on the multiple hunting trips anyways.

and what i really dont get was the statement about having more faith in third parties than hasbro. third party figures are collector pieces first and foremost, all usually suffer from some form of QC, and you cant exactly walk into to walmart and buy a fansproject smart robin. so give hasbro a break already.

when did I ever talk about wanting to buy in stores???? please pinpoint the exact phrase cos I don't rem writing it...
or about distribution?
it was always about
-the price
-the fact that vendors are selling them in packs of 4.
-the fact that this isn't the first overpriced hasbro product (coincidence?).

and Hasbro has repeatedly stated and announced to care more for new audiences than for collectors, I have no issue ordering items on ebay, the question at hand is their price....

Mindmaster wrote:Good for those who missed it. I was able to find my Waspinator and Dreadwing during the Christmas season, and Skids around January. I had planned to pick up Goldbug just to say I have at least one use of the mold, but with Nightbeat's unveiling, forget him.

Good, I was planning a pop quiz to ensure you had one of them

Susha wrote:

shajaki wrote:this wave is shelf warming at the three TRU's in my town. however, i never once saw the ruination figures.

i dont get all the anger though. theres a new run on the way. if you cant find them in stores (or dont think you will) why not jump on the online retailers who are offering them again? if you really want them, theres your opportunity. as others have stated before, buying online is necessary sometimes and shipping runs about the same as gas money on the multiple hunting trips anyways.

and what i really dont get was the statement about having more faith in third parties than hasbro. third party figures are collector pieces first and foremost, all usually suffer from some form of QC, and you cant exactly walk into to walmart and buy a fansproject smart robin. so give hasbro a break already.

when did I ever talk about wanting to buy in stores???? please pinpoint the exact phrase cos I don't rem writing it...
or about distribution?
it was always about
-the price
-the fact that vendors are selling them in packs of 4.
-the fact that this isn't the first overpriced hasbro product (coincidence?).

and Hasbro has repeatedly stated and announced to care more for new audiences than for collectors, I have no issue ordering items on ebay, the question at hand is their price....

*sigh*
you didnt. these were merely positive points towards hasbro. just sayin 3rd parties arent the be all end all.

Mindmaster wrote:Good for those who missed it. I was able to find my Waspinator and Dreadwing during the Christmas season, and Skids around January. I had planned to pick up Goldbug just to say I have at least one use of the mold, but with Nightbeat's unveiling, forget him.

Is Nightbeat coming out soon? I haven't seen him as a preorder yet on online retailers.

That's great, these hadn't shown up along with the Ruination wave. Interesting comments going on, I would've bought these toys but if they don't show up I simply can't. Whether or not it's directly Hasbro's fault it affects their brand and sales in the end.

william-james88 wrote:Can someone tell me why generations Skids was the most collectable from the lot and the harder one to find?

1985 G1 cast member. Anyone from 1984-1986 is guaranteed to be super popular.

shajaki wrote:

Susha wrote:

shajaki wrote:this wave is shelf warming at the three TRU's in my town. however, i never once saw the ruination figures.

i dont get all the anger though. theres a new run on the way. if you cant find them in stores (or dont think you will) why not jump on the online retailers who are offering them again? if you really want them, theres your opportunity. as others have stated before, buying online is necessary sometimes and shipping runs about the same as gas money on the multiple hunting trips anyways.

and what i really dont get was the statement about having more faith in third parties than hasbro. third party figures are collector pieces first and foremost, all usually suffer from some form of QC, and you cant exactly walk into to walmart and buy a fansproject smart robin. so give hasbro a break already.

when did I ever talk about wanting to buy in stores???? please pinpoint the exact phrase cos I don't rem writing it...
or about distribution?
it was always about
-the price
-the fact that vendors are selling them in packs of 4.
-the fact that this isn't the first overpriced hasbro product (coincidence?).

and Hasbro has repeatedly stated and announced to care more for new audiences than for collectors, I have no issue ordering items on ebay, the question at hand is their price....

*sigh*
you didnt. these were merely positive points towards hasbro. just sayin 3rd parties arent the be all end all.

i wasn't trying to be rude..

just...
my mom always told me...
you can never kill a saint with the same technique twice in a...
whatever saint seiya jokes aside, if some1 fools you once, it can pass, but if you let him fool you twice... its on you.
at the end of the day ratbat and skids were way overpriced and I passed on both,
but with all the affection I have for hasbro I can't but feel some1 is pulling me by the tail.
I'm not sure who it is, or how much is to blame, BUT, its a hasbro product and I really don't
care about the details... well ok maybe "I" do, but not more than my money...

the relevant point is, i feel 'cheated' and my customer fidelity suffers from it.

Susha wrote:

shajaki wrote:

Susha wrote:

shajaki wrote:this wave is shelf warming at the three TRU's in my town. however, i never once saw the ruination figures.

i dont get all the anger though. theres a new run on the way. if you cant find them in stores (or dont think you will) why not jump on the online retailers who are offering them again? if you really want them, theres your opportunity. as others have stated before, buying online is necessary sometimes and shipping runs about the same as gas money on the multiple hunting trips anyways.

and what i really dont get was the statement about having more faith in third parties than hasbro. third party figures are collector pieces first and foremost, all usually suffer from some form of QC, and you cant exactly walk into to walmart and buy a fansproject smart robin. so give hasbro a break already.

when did I ever talk about wanting to buy in stores???? please pinpoint the exact phrase cos I don't rem writing it...
or about distribution?
it was always about
-the price
-the fact that vendors are selling them in packs of 4.
-the fact that this isn't the first overpriced hasbro product (coincidence?).

and Hasbro has repeatedly stated and announced to care more for new audiences than for collectors, I have no issue ordering items on ebay, the question at hand is their price....

*sigh*
you didnt. these were merely positive points towards hasbro. just sayin 3rd parties arent the be all end all.

i wasn't trying to be rude..

just...
my mom always told me...
you can never kill a saint with the same technique twice in a...
whatever saint seiya jokes aside, if some1 fools you once, it can pass, but if you let him fool you twice... its on you.
at the end of the day ratbat and skids were way overpriced and I passed on both,
but with all the affection I have for hasbro I can't but feel some1 is pulling me by the tail.
I'm not sure who it is, or how much is to blame, BUT, its a hasbro product and I really don't
care about the details... well ok maybe "I" do, but not more than my money...

the relevant point is, i feel 'cheated' and my customer fidelity suffers from it.

Your anger is wholly misplaced at Hasbro. They can't control what toys make it onto store shelves, in what quantity, and when. Take it up with retailers. They couldn't force wal-mart to swallow a sixth and seventh wave of dotm deluxes. These things happen.

It Is Him wrote:Your anger is wholly misplaced at Hasbro. They can't control what toys make it onto store shelves, in what quantity, and when. Take it up with retailers. They couldn't force wal-mart to swallow a sixth and seventh wave of dotm deluxes. These things happen.

Bingo. If the Toy Category Buyers at Target, Wal-Mart, etc. aren't ordering the new waves in large quantities, Hasbro isn't producing them in large quantities, and then we have shortages. This is pretty common during the post-Christmas lull in retail sales; it just sucks it had to coincide with such a popular wave. It's a different problem than (but is often compounded by) the questions of supply chain raised earlier.

Credit where credit's due here - Hasbro heard fans were unhappy at the scarcity of this wave, and they're producing a second run. And people are angered by this?

megatronus wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Your anger is wholly misplaced at Hasbro. They can't control what toys make it onto store shelves, in what quantity, and when. Take it up with retailers. They couldn't force wal-mart to swallow a sixth and seventh wave of dotm deluxes. These things happen.

Bingo. If the Toy Category Buyers at Target, Wal-Mart, etc. aren't ordering the new waves in large quantities, Hasbro isn't producing them in large quantities, and then we have shortages. This is pretty common during the post-Christmas lull in retail sales; it just sucks it had to coincide with such a popular wave. It's a different problem than (but is often compounded by) the questions of supply chain raised earlier.

Credit where credit's due here - Hasbro heard fans were unhappy at the scarcity of this wave, and they're producing a second run. And people are angered by this?

But who is determining, which figures make up a wave and how the figures are packed in assortments? Why are popular characters often getting short packed? As pointed out Skids is a popular character from G1 and has a popular role in IDW, so why wasn't he created in larger quantities?

Stormrider wrote:

megatronus wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Your anger is wholly misplaced at Hasbro. They can't control what toys make it onto store shelves, in what quantity, and when. Take it up with retailers. They couldn't force wal-mart to swallow a sixth and seventh wave of dotm deluxes. These things happen.

Bingo. If the Toy Category Buyers at Target, Wal-Mart, etc. aren't ordering the new waves in large quantities, Hasbro isn't producing them in large quantities, and then we have shortages. This is pretty common during the post-Christmas lull in retail sales; it just sucks it had to coincide with such a popular wave. It's a different problem than (but is often compounded by) the questions of supply chain raised earlier.

Credit where credit's due here - Hasbro heard fans were unhappy at the scarcity of this wave, and they're producing a second run. And people are angered by this?

But who is determining, which figures make up a wave and how the figures are packed in assortments? Why are popular characters often getting short packed? As pointed out Skids is a popular character from G1 and has a popular role in IDW, so why wasn't he created in larger quantities?

He was packed two-per case by Hasbro. That's evenly packed with the three other figures who were two-per case for a total of eight figures per deluxe case. This seems right to me.

im not angry, you fail to understand my point..

and your being very stubborn about this:
For me there are two actors involved in a selling of the toy.
The producerm, and the shop keeper...

Seriously try explaining to a client why he cant have his
starbux coffy cos the shop is out of coffy...

It simply doesn't happen, because the GREAT
advantage of buying rights to a franchise
is they provide you with stock EVERY MORNING.

OFC, starbux does make you sign shitloads of paper
as they want to protect their name and you represent it if you
open a shop of theirs...


So in the end, if a hasbro product has distribution probelms
there is really no point in trying to blame, British Petrolium for example...
Hasbro IS involved because this IS their product. I don't care
about excuses about a greedy or lazy middle...
because its just so totaly redundant to the point being made..

but whatever ...

Susha wrote:im not angry, you fail to understand my point..

and your being very stubborn about this:
For me there are two actors involved in a selling of the toy.
The producerm, and the shop keeper...

Seriously try explaining to a client why he cant have his
starbux coffy cos the shop is out of coffy...

It simply doesn't happen, because the GREAT
advantage of buying rights to a franchise
is they provide you with stock EVERY MORNING.

OFC, starbux does make you sign shitloads of paper
as they want to protect their name and you represent it if you
open a shop of theirs...


So in the end, if a hasbro product has distribution probelms
there is really no point in trying to blame, British Petrolium for example...
Hasbro IS involved because this IS their product. I don't care
about excuses about a greedy or lazy middle...
because its just so totaly redundant to the point being made..

but whatever ...

You're free to be ignorant of how the business works... but that just makes you, well... ignorant.

Starbucks is a horrible example, FYI. They are (nowadays) vertically integrated as the producer, distributor, and retailer of their own coffee. They used to only be the distributor and sometimes retailer. Either way, it's not the same as being only the producer or manufacturer.

What would happen if you were a Starbucks Franchisee and decided in July that you would only need half the coffee you normally do in January. And then come January, customers got pissed off because there was no coffee. Would it make sense to get mad at Starbucks who produces/distributes the coffee, or you, the Franchisee for not ordering enough?

Hasbro is a manufacturer. They don't sell anything to us. But they create a volume of goods based on the demand expressed by the people who DO sell to us, the retailers. Yes, Hasbro is involved, and yes, I'm sure there's some wiggle room involved when they finalize their aggregate sales predictions. But they're not going to baselessly speculate on the popularity of a figure 6 months in advance and buck the general outline of their forecasts on a hunch. Why would they do that?

You can be mad at Hasbro, sure. But to be mad ONLY at Hasbro and blithely ignore the menagerie of other industry players...

Susha wrote:im not angry, you fail to understand my point..

and your being very stubborn about this:
For me there are two actors involved in a selling of the toy.
The producerm, and the shop keeper...

Seriously try explaining to a client why he cant have his
starbux coffy cos the shop is out of coffy...

It simply doesn't happen, because the GREAT
advantage of buying rights to a franchise
is they provide you with stock EVERY MORNING.

OFC, starbux does make you sign shitloads of paper
as they want to protect their name and you represent it if you
open a shop of theirs...


So in the end, if a hasbro product has distribution probelms
there is really no point in trying to blame, British Petrolium for example...
Hasbro IS involved because this IS their product. I don't care
about excuses about a greedy or lazy middle...
because its just so totaly redundant to the point being made..

but whatever ...

Toys are not Starbucks coffee. You can't equate the two. Production is far more complex, more expensive to keep on the shelf, significantly less in demand, and vastly more unpredictable of a market to guarantee stock at every store. Toy margins are tighter than coffee, and if stores carried too much stock, they could suffer badly for it.

Edit: didn't see megatronus's response but yeah

1 I am not mad at hasbro...
what i did say is my customer fidelity suffers from having my tail pulled more than once.

Just FYI if you go to HSBC or any bank and ask for advice about opening a franchise
you will receive a <200 page file with several details. One of which is your
obligation to not 'put under bad light' the franchise name you represent.

I think the McDonald managers (80's-90's) who had mice in their burgers might know
something about these laws and the related...

I have no relation with the middle man. Nor did the Mc Donald customers who
found mice in their burgers, Nor should they care, mc donald was
giving their name, ultimately its their responsibility.

I frankly don't understand why your making this an issue of customer fidelity (hasbro or shop keeper)
while it really only is about the money...

Susha wrote:Seriously try explaining to a client why he cant have his starbux coffy cos the shop is out of coffy...
It simply doesn't happen, because the GREAT advantage of buying rights to a franchise is they provide you with stock EVERY MORNING.

that arguement is all kinds of nonsense. unless theres some hasbro only store out there that ive never heard of.

shajaki wrote:

Susha wrote:Seriously try explaining to a client why he cant have his starbux coffy cos the shop is out of coffy...
It simply doesn't happen, because the GREAT advantage of buying rights to a franchise is they provide you with stock EVERY MORNING.

that arguement is all kinds of nonsense. unless theres some hasbro only store out there that ive never heard of.

Bingo. Hasbro doesn't have franchises. Argument invalid.

shajaki wrote:

Susha wrote:Seriously try explaining to a client why he cant have his starbux coffy cos the shop is out of coffy...
It simply doesn't happen, because the GREAT advantage of buying rights to a franchise is they provide you with stock EVERY MORNING.

that arguement is all kinds of nonsense. unless theres some hasbro only store out there that ive never heard of.

That's comparing apples and oranges. I don't know how many times restaurants and cafes get restocked, but I know toy stores get restocked once a week to once every two weeks here, and only with the product they felt like ordering taking sales and average sales in a certain period into account.

if there is a second run, I'd like them to assemble Skids' hips properly.

With all the trouble I read here people have had with this wave, more so Skids, I am glad I found him at Wal-mart for $9.99. Not to rub it in lol.

Susha wrote:explanations are all very nice, but they don't fulfill the customers initial intent.

example.
Frank walks in restaurant (to eat) to be told the kitchen is closed.
Frank goes looking for another restaurant.

whatever the explanations is the result is
A)SKIDS: a wanted figure supposed to be available at $20 is only really found at $60
B) MP RAT BAT: Hasbro is providing info on MP ultra magnus in 20whatever while not providing infowwwrmation on if and when a figure that is worth some $20-40 alone at best is only obtainable at $120.

explanations are hypothesis
the results... well are under the light of the sun for all to see.

... I'm not trying to troll, rather express how I feel as a customer. I find it hard to believe that nobody else feels like this. not even those who have MP soundwave, want ratbat but not soundblaster? last time i checked in the park, tree's didn't grow $120 dollar notes...

Lits of people feel the way you do, we just dont repat our selves about it. And what your using as an example is somewhat two different levels of things. Bbts is trying to entice you to buy stuff thats already sitting around in a warehouse instead of cherrypicking. Its no differnt than going to a yardsale and not being allowed to onoy buy one kitchen chair in a complete set, or just Onslaught in a complete Bruticus figure. Yeah, it sucks, and the prices are a bit high for someone who had a crack at yha case once, but some people are missing figures.

Ratbat is a little different, because there is no individual option for him. He's a reward for buying a repaint that Takara Tomy needs the money from sales. (needs ina figurative sense ) IF they ever sell Ratbat alone, itll be several years, because selling Ratbat will undercut their sales for Soundblaster and thwy are stuck with useless product. So if you want a ratbat, plan on a giant tapedeck accesory. If thats unappealing, hope for clearence prices or resign yourself to not having him. Does it suck? Yes, absolutely, but thats the bundle, most of us bought Generations Legends Optimus for the Rollar figure, Megatron because of Chop Shop, and hundreds of Minicons shine under display shelves while the bigger figutes tbey came with collect dust in storage.

Thats not hypothesis, thats Business Marketing 101