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How is the quality of the toys poor? Please explain & give examples of how they were better before the Transformer movies came out. Don't just make statements without backing up your opinion with hard facts

One word: Bullshit.

America's poor child eyes continue to be protected from the harsh realities of what happens when all the world's product labor gets outsourced to a single communist country.

And yeah those people HAVE to work there. It's not like they have much choice, any other factory in China is not going to be much different. And for any factories where you might make decent wages I'd imagine it would be almost impossible to get a job position.

As for the mention of bayformers. The franchise made most of it's money from the films. The toy sales have been somewhat of a crapshoot though and they make far more product then they need to for the respective lines, leaving shelves full of un-bought toys for the following years. I see it that kids are more likely to buy toys based on a television series than on a movie, seeing as a TV series is something they watch once a week and a movie is something they only see once every two years. TV shows will actually keep up their attention span. And yes, I've heard people complain about the quality control allot more since the movies came out. Though my personal experience says that the decline started with Animated. Quantity over quality.

Envisaged0ne wrote:How is the quality of the toys poor? Please explain & give examples of how they were better before the Transformer movies came out. Don't just make statements without backing up your opinion with hard facts

Don't bother, those guys blame Bay for everything. Somehow it's his fault that working conditions are bad in a factory he is in no way involved with.

Towards the end of this short video you can see the average working conditions in a Chinese toy factory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX1iplQQJTo

I seriously doubt Hasbro's factory is any different...

The only time I've heard any real quality control problems was with the animated line. Haven't heard anything towards the generations, reveal the shield or movie lines. Yes, every once in a while someone will get one that has loose joints or paint smudges. But that's true with anything you buy and you can't hold Hasbro to a higher standard than everyone else. Again, the animated line had some legitimate issues to complain about, but I see all to often people taking it out on the "bayformers". And people say that Michael Bay ruined the Transformers franchise. But, facts show that the movies made billions of dollars. Paramount made more money with the TF3 than any other movie ever released. If Bay was the aweful director people make him out to be, and the toys were so aweful, then he never would have been allowed to continue making the movies. And again, everyone wouldn't be begging him to do the 4th one. I just get irritated when people bash Michael Bay and act like it's his fault when there's something about Transformers they don't like. If it weren't for him and the movies, Transformers wouldn't be where it is today.

Michael Bay and the movies have nothing to do with this thread. Drop it.

Any further mention of Michael Bay, or the movies will result in warnings.

This thread is about alleged poor working conditions in Chinese factories that happen to produce Transformer toys.

Rated X wrote:Towards the end of this short video you can see the average working conditions in a Chinese toy factory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX1iplQQJTo

I seriously doubt Hasbro's factory is any different...

Gad dammit! I thought it was a real video of a Chinese factory. Stupid Simpsons lol

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to guess having the International Council of Toy Industries assess whether a toy company's factory is ethical is kind of like grading your own test. Organizations like this are generally created and funded by the companies in the industry, so expecting them to have an unbiased opinion is silly. Perhaps the accuser is exaggerating things a bit, but if Hasbro were really serious about investigating, they'd let a third party with no vested interest do it, not a toy company association.

*Sorry bout the bayformers rant.
On topic: I found this from Wikipedia's website about Hasbro. Looks like this isn't the 1st time Hasbro has been looked at for bad employee practices in China...

"Manufacture

Over the years Hasbro has outsourced the manufacture of its products to third-party companies, mostly in China. At the Chinese factories, which Hasbro does not directly own or operate, migrant workers are compensated with meager salaries for their labor. At one such factory, in Dongguan, China, basic assembly line jobs pay a little over one hundred US dollars per month,[13] China's minimum wage.

In 2007, a workers' rights group investigated several of Hasbro's Chinese suppliers and found that, in one instance, a toy factory in China's Guangxi Province had hired 1000 junior high school students. The same group discovered other widespread labor violations, including unsafe working conditions, mandatory overtime, verbal abuse and sexual harassment of employees. Hasbro issued a statement, saying that it would "act swiftly and decisively in making any necessary changes" and had "increased the intensity of [its] ongoing safety review efforts." Critics counter that, as Hasbro has no official regulatory control of these factories, it responds to such investigations by acquiring independent auditors, who make unannounced visits to the East Asian subcontractors. Factory managers are then "coached" in how to fool the auditors.[14]

Outside Asia, Hasbro owns and operates only two manufacturing facilities, one in Waterford, Ireland, the other in East Longmeadow, Massachusetts, USA. In recent years, the company has cut jobs at both plants in response to increasing competition from lower cost locations in China. At the end of 2006, for example, Hasbro's Irish division laid off more than one third of its workforce"

Regarding quality control: I was fortunate to receive Transformers: Prime figures for Christmas. I have Arcee, Starscream, Bumblebee, and the entertainment pack with Optimus/Megatron.

Bumblebee's heel was out of alignment and he couldn't stand right. I was able to disassemble the foot and fix it, but he has a loose shoulder that flops around and I can't fix that. Two issues in one figure.

One of Starscream's rubbery knee spikes was folded over when packaged and is pointing to the side at 45 degrees. Doesn't hinder transformation or posing but it looks pretty obviously wrong when you see him, and it's not something I think I can fix since I can't bend it back into place without it just snapping right back.

I started collecting with Generations and had a few quality issues before, but it stinks that I can't easily return any of the new figures to get a fixed replacement because of their rarity right now. I've seen others complain about Hasbro QC before but this was the first time it hit me, and gave me a wow factor after having obvious issues with two figures in a row. I wondered if things had gone downhill somehow.

retrothomas wrote:Regarding quality control: I was fortunate to receive Transformers: Prime figures for Christmas. I have Arcee, Starscream, Bumblebee, and the entertainment pack with Optimus/Megatron.

Bumblebee's heel was out of alignment and he couldn't stand right. I was able to disassemble the foot and fix it, but he has a loose shoulder that flops around and I can't fix that. Two issues in one figure.

My Bumblebee has a loose and floppy shoulder. The right one, actually. The metal stud or rivet or whatever they call those flatheaded pins is loose and makes the arm flop. Can't get it to move without damaging the figure. If I had a soldering iron, I could warm it up enough to push it in without damage, but I currently have no access to one, at the moment.

retrothomas wrote:One of Starscream's rubbery knee spikes was folded over when packaged and is pointing to the side at 45 degrees. Doesn't hinder transformation or posing but it looks pretty obviously wrong when you see him, and it's not something I think I can fix since I can't bend it back into place without it just snapping right back.

Put the rubbery piece, or the entire leg, in just barely boiling water. Not enough to warp the plastic, but make it pliable. Give it a good 30 seconds. Scoop it out, straighten it immediately and then shove it in the freezer for about 5 minutes. It'll come out rock solid and straight. If it ever gets floppy again, just repeat the process.

retrothomas wrote:I started collecting with Generations and had a few quality issues before, but it stinks that I can't easily return any of the new figures to get a fixed replacement because of their rarity right now. I've seen others complain about Hasbro QC before but this was the first time it hit me, and gave me a wow factor after having obvious issues with two figures in a row. I wondered if things had gone downhill somehow.

That's why it bothers me to be an early adopter. I still went ahead and bought the figures, but yeah, it worries and bothers me that if I get a piece of junk, I'm stuck with it. Can't depend on Hasbro to replace it, they'll send you something comparable. (Yay?)

I did notice a trend in QC this year. First in DOTM, now in F.E.P...

Horrible paint quality. The apps are handled well, as in they don't bleed and they're not crooked, but the paint is thin and chips easily. My DOTM Sentinel Prime's legs are awful. The paint looks so horrible. I will give it a touch up here when I get the chance, but it's pretty awful after spending that kinda dough.

Voyager Prime Optimus Prime is one of the worst offenders. Mine has paint chips on the smokestack panels, the waist, the feet and the roof. Problem is, instead of molding the plastic red, they molded it in blue and black and just painted it. I don't see how that saves them costs, because you can tell there's more than one coat of paint on these sections.

I'm not sure who's idea it was, but they need a refresher course in getting it right.

The plastic feels thinner, the paint's worse, the construction is shoddy. If this is an indication of what's to come, we're going to see a return to GPS. Or something else that's equally horrible. Hasbro wants $12.99 per Deluxe...well, where is that money going? Obviously not into the materials, or to the workers, so what's their excuse now?

I'm normally not a Hasbro basher, I hate that brand hate crap, but these concerns are legitimate and after spending good money, I'm a little P.O.ed.

Powermaster Jazz wrote:

Rated X wrote:Towards the end of this short video you can see the average working conditions in a Chinese toy factory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX1iplQQJTo

I seriously doubt Hasbro's factory is any different...

Gad dammit! I thought it was a real video of a Chinese factory. Stupid Simpsons lol

You really wanna see that ???

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVK6qCrq ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2KCYsmW ... re=related

Oh you wanna get REEEEALLLY real? Let's get nuts...



Yes, minimum wage: live like kings in Communist China.

Autobot032 wrote:Put the rubbery piece, or the entire leg, in just barely boiling water. Not enough to warp the plastic, but make it pliable. Give it a good 30 seconds. Scoop it out, straighten it immediately and then shove it in the freezer for about 5 minutes. It'll come out rock solid and straight. If it ever gets floppy again, just repeat the process.

Thank you! I'll try that.

I'll be blunt as always with you guys: if any of you are thinking about giving up the hobby or boycotting it altogether, you may as well throw out every single thing that was fabricated in China. Every, single, thing. And trust me that'll be quite a lot to throw out.

In a sense it's our own damn fault for being such big consumers. Large demand will make companies look for cheaper places to produce, and those places will cut corners wherever possible, no matter the consequence. And it will always be this way no matter where the companies will settle next.

Nekoman wrote:Group of dudes A says Hasbro's working conditions are inhumane!

Group of dudes B says Hasbro's working conditions are perfectly fine, the allegations are false.

I'm not going to say who's telling the truth here, but I believe you can chose where you work in China. Even then, if they're willing to work in poor conditions, and are, they probably need that money they earn.

Hmm... so hasbro checked an thinks the claims are false? Well i personally think Group A seems more legit.Given that they actually gave us the 1st image of TF:Prime RID bumblebee, along with lots of pics of inside the factory. I doubt someone would go that far just to make up a bunch of lies to screw with hasbro. After all, Group A came out with a nice report with pictures as proof. A picture paints a thousand words. All Hasbro did to deny these claims were to simply state it in words. Where is the evidence that all your workers are fine?

On a side not, i'm probably never going to even touch my Prime Bumblebee again.

After an unannounced, nine hour inspection, both Hasbro and the I.C.T.I. determined the facility met "Hasbro's rigorous requirements."

Haven't had the chance to read through all reports, but this line is suspect. It's not that the conditions are fine, it's that the facility meets "rigorous requirements", i.e. no one's died and x amount of toys are produced.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:I'll be blunt as always with you guys: if any of you are thinking about giving up the hobby or boycotting it altogether, you may as well throw out every single thing that was fabricated in China. Every, single, thing. And trust me that'll be quite a lot to throw out.

In a sense it's our own damn fault for being such big consumers. Large demand will make companies look for cheaper places to produce, and those places will cut corners wherever possible, no matter the consequence. And it will always be this way no matter where the companies will settle next.

This is an intelligent thought more should ponder.

What surprises me is how many people are acting like this is something new. Everyone makes **** in China, not just Hasbro. Also, China in general isn't known for their good human rights. This has been apparent for... forever.

You could stop buying from Hasbro, but Mattel's no different. Jazwares or whatever their name is either, or Bandai, or any other toy company.

Life sucks. In some places more so than others. You really can't blame Hasbro for **** like this cause you know it happens no matter who you buy from.

Ultimately it's up to the Chinese to fix their own problems.

This is the typical corporate BS response, the main reason why companies move their operations over seas to China is because China does not give a crap about human rights, and honestly, neither do most big corporations, all they care about is making money and sadly all most Americans care about any more are material goods(the ones who can afford it) those who can't are just trying to survive to the next day. This has a lot to do with the shape the country is in. I was appalled that the headline for the news story on this site containing the report was about a packaging variant and not the damning report. tfw didn't even post the news of the variant as far as I know(good for them). Toy quality has been going down hill for a while now, I will not go into details, but just compare rts Rodimus to the original classics version. There is more than just mold degradation that is the issue there, look at all the times they used the Combaticon molds. I really can't say I feel the same zeal for tfs that I did b4 I read that report, I knew it was bad in China but DAMN! We as a country are all aiding in the exploitation of these people and it sux. Bush lifted tarrifs on imported goods from China and there has been a "giant sucking sound"(Ross Perot) ever since. We as Americans are suffering because we have lost our manufacturing base (middle class included) and the chinese people are suffering for obvious reasons. Doesn't matter tho, at this rate China will own the damn world.

P.S. I have yet to buy a DOTM toy, they all look like melted piles of feces to me.

Nekoman wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:I'll be blunt as always with you guys: if any of you are thinking about giving up the hobby or boycotting it altogether, you may as well throw out every single thing that was fabricated in China. Every, single, thing. And trust me that'll be quite a lot to throw out.

In a sense it's our own damn fault for being such big consumers. Large demand will make companies look for cheaper places to produce, and those places will cut corners wherever possible, no matter the consequence. And it will always be this way no matter where the companies will settle next.

This is an intelligent thought more should ponder.

What surprises me is how many people are acting like this is something new. Everyone makes **** in China, not just Hasbro. Also, China in general isn't known for their good human rights. This has been apparent for... forever.

You could stop buying from Hasbro, but Mattel's no different. Jazwares or whatever their name is either, or Bandai, or any other toy company.

Life sucks. In some places more so than others. You really can't blame Hasbro for **** like this cause you know it happens no matter who you buy from.

Ultimately it's up to the Chinese to fix their own problems.

Actually, TFs are Hasbro's intellectual property, it is their responsibilty not the Chinese govt. I don't know how the manufacturing industry works in China, but if working conditions are poor hasbro doesn't have to produce toys in China or that particular factory(though I doubt conditions are better anywhere else), again, all they are concerned with is profit. This is all old news but sometimes it takes something like this report to remind everyone of how things are over there(after all out of sight, out of mind). I'm with the guy who said earlier that hasbro should stop pocketing their profit and actually put it into improving their product and working conditions for their workers. I try not to buy made in china, but sometimes I have no choice(damned electronics), I will not buy anything distilled or produced in china that is food related(apple juice from china has high levels of arsenic and strychnine).

Nekoman wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:I'll be blunt as always with you guys: if any of you are thinking about giving up the hobby or boycotting it altogether, you may as well throw out every single thing that was fabricated in China. Every, single, thing. And trust me that'll be quite a lot to throw out.

In a sense it's our own damn fault for being such big consumers. Large demand will make companies look for cheaper places to produce, and those places will cut corners wherever possible, no matter the consequence. And it will always be this way no matter where the companies will settle next.

This is an intelligent thought more should ponder.

What surprises me is how many people are acting like this is something new. Everyone makes **** in China, not just Hasbro. Also, China in general isn't known for their good human rights. This has been apparent for... forever.

You could stop buying from Hasbro, but Mattel's no different. Jazwares or whatever their name is either, or Bandai, or any other toy company.

Life sucks. In some places more so than others. You really can't blame Hasbro for **** like this cause you know it happens no matter who you buy from.

Ultimately it's up to the Chinese to fix their own problems.

This. We seem to think alike.

Unfortunately, with the Chinese government putting a firm iron hold on its population, I don't really see much positive change happening from them any time soon. All we can do is set examples with our factories, but ponder this: were our factories in the Western world any different back in the 1950's?

Apple says if the ipad were produced in America it would be unaffordable, this is BS, yeah it would cost more, but they would have to pay their workers a decent wage and that is not bad, let's look at the logistics of this, Apple moves manufacturing to America, hires x amount of people to produce the ipad, prices of the ipad goes up, however; if wages for the production of ipad are raised to coincide with increase in retail price, let's say the ipad doubles it's retail price to 1000.00 for a base model, the linemen are making 15 to 20 an hour working 40 to 50 hours a week, at 15 an hour times 40 hours a week times 4 weeks a month, thats $2400 a month, American workers could afford a base model ipad and where I live, still be able to pay there bills and have money left over, instead companies send jobs over seas, americans lose jobs, income, etc, chinese people are paid pennies on the dollar, inferior products are made and everyone loses out in the end. Do you think a chinese worker could afford a base model ipad now? Apple pockets all the money, the workers get shiite, and we get crappy products. I know my economics are flawed in the above example, so don't crucify me on it, but this profit before people mentality is why we are in a recession/depression depending on where you live.

Look one thing We always have to remember is that beside every thing own is made in sweat shops, in China, India, Taiwan and all that is that the factors comply to the countries health and safety regulations for factories not saying that Hasbro doesn't have part in it.

Deszaras1979 wrote:Apple says if the ipad were produced in America it would be unaffordable, this is BS, yeah it would cost more, but they would have to pay their workers a decent wage and that is not bad, let's look at the logistics of this, Apple moves manufacturing to America, hires x amount of people to produce the ipad, prices of the ipad goes up, however; if wages for the production of ipad are raised to coincide with increase in retail price, let's say the ipad doubles it's retail price to 1000.00 for a base model, the linemen are making 15 to 20 an hour working 40 to 50 hours a week, at 15 an hour times 40 hours a week times 4 weeks a month, thats $2400 a month, American workers could afford a base model ipad and where I live, still be able to pay there bills and have money left over, instead companies send jobs over seas, americans lose jobs, income, etc, chinese people are paid pennies on the dollar, inferior products are made and everyone loses out in the end. Do you think a chinese worker could afford a base model ipad now? Apple pockets all the money, the workers get shiite, and we get crappy products. I know my economics are flawed in the above example, so don't crucify me on it, but this profit before people mentality is why we are in a recession/depression depending on where you live.

Do you know what the word profit means?
It means the money that is left after all the investments have been earned back, including wages.
If the retail price goes up due to Apple having to pay higher wages, guess what would happen if they increased their wages even further. You guessed it the iPAd would be even more expensive.

Companies don't get the money to pay their workers from thin air, they have to earn it first.

If someone used your example we would have an even higher inflation than now.

Dead Metal wrote:

Deszaras1979 wrote:Apple says if the ipad were produced in America it would be unaffordable, this is BS, yeah it would cost more, but they would have to pay their workers a decent wage and that is not bad, let's look at the logistics of this, Apple moves manufacturing to America, hires x amount of people to produce the ipad, prices of the ipad goes up, however; if wages for the production of ipad are raised to coincide with increase in retail price, let's say the ipad doubles it's retail price to 1000.00 for a base model, the linemen are making 15 to 20 an hour working 40 to 50 hours a week, at 15 an hour times 40 hours a week times 4 weeks a month, thats $2400 a month, American workers could afford a base model ipad and where I live, still be able to pay there bills and have money left over, instead companies send jobs over seas, americans lose jobs, income, etc, chinese people are paid pennies on the dollar, inferior products are made and everyone loses out in the end. Do you think a chinese worker could afford a base model ipad now? Apple pockets all the money, the workers get shiite, and we get crappy products. I know my economics are flawed in the above example, so don't crucify me on it, but this profit before people mentality is why we are in a recession/depression depending on where you live.

Do you know what the word profit means?
It means the money that is left after all the investments have been earned back, including wages.
If the retail price goes up due to Apple having to pay higher wages, guess what would happen if they increased their wages even further. You guessed it the iPAd would be even more expensive.

Companies don't get the money to pay their workers from thin air, they have to earn it first.

If someone used your example we would have an even higher inflation than now.

For one, I already said my economics were flawed, I am not a professor, and yes, I know what profit is, companies were doing just fine making a profit and employing people at a decent wage when Clinton was president, anyone who says different knows crap about politics nay reality, the only reason so much is manufactured overseas is so companies can make their bottom line look better for stockholders, you think they really care about delivering a product to you at a reasonable price? NO. Just what kind of job do you hold? I am not a flaming liberal, but neither am I a narrow minded conservative. There are many companies that could move jobs back over here and make money, they just refuse to. We all know companies don't get capital from thin air, they get it from the taxpayers in the form of bailouts, slush funds, etc. What is your economic theory, pay everyone that works on a production line two cents an hour so only the elite and rich can afford what someone else had to sweat and possibly bleed to produce? And yes if a company is only producing in a third world country, they are not investing crap back into the business. You do realize corporate profits are at an all time high, yet there are few and far between jobs and wages have been stagnant for the last 15 years. In fact wages have gone down in some cases due to some factories laying off permanent employees, only to bring them back through a temp service at a reduced wage.