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Dead Metal wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:And all this will stay as is, unless the Occupy Wall Street movement is heard and gets their way. Which I hope it will.

The "Occupy" movement is a bunch of garbage. A bunch of self righious people who think the world is owed to them. Its steady loosing steam as well as public support and I for one, and thankfull.

Why, what's wrong with what they say?

Hmm. The Occupy issue is a mixed bag for me. On the one hand, what they're saying and fighting for is right. (At least in my mind.) However, their actions have done nothing but cost money and time and injury.

There are better ways to rage against the machine, this is not one of them.

Dead Metal wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:And all this will stay as is, unless the Occupy Wall Street movement is heard and gets their way. Which I hope it will.

The "Occupy" movement is a bunch of garbage. A bunch of self righious people who think the world is owed to them. Its steady loosing steam as well as public support and I for one, and thankfull.

Why, what's wrong with what they say?

They think there owed everything. Becaude others are successfull, and those that went to college can't find jobs that pay $100K a year right out of school and are pissed that they have to prove themselves and start by working at the bottom.. They think that there loans should be forgived. This is crap.

Autobot032 wrote:Hmm. The Occupy issue is a mixed bag for me. On the one hand, what they're saying and fighting for is right. (At least in my mind.) However, their actions have done nothing but cost money and time and injury.

There are better ways to rage against the machine, this is not one of them.

Exactly.

I understand what the orignal point of the Occupy movment was, but at this point, based on interviews and signs that these people have up while protesting, maybe 10% of them actually believe in their cause. The rest really have no clue whats going on. They have no demands what so ever. They have no organization what so ever. They have cost millions in damages that that tax payers (they ones the claim they represent) will have to pay. Their protesting has cause many small buisness to lay off employee's because they there presence has scared away customers. NOt to meantion the trash, using public parks as toliets, rioting and breaking the law. (they think they are above the law and don't have to do what police tell them too) Ya, they really stand for something don't they?...

To clarify without political debate...
The occupy movement was initially about bringing to light the homelessness caused by foreclosures of properties held by banks connected to wall street exchange firms. These toxic loans were wagered and traded against other commodities, were the cause of the need for bailouts, hence the last resort effort to bring to light (in the media, to the public) the juxtaposition of people who risked and lost yet still got paid and bailed out by the government to the people who really have no other course of action due to the recent decline of jobs being shipped to cheaper labor (Indian customer support call centers, Asian sweat shops, et al). Everything is connected internationally. I would go on, but this is something I've been following passionately, hence would not be in the best interest of the thread.

Just one other thing... to the person that said superpowers no longer want to war with each other; please take a deep breath, get something warm to drink, and reconsider that position with just a bit more analytic regard.

Dead Metal wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:And all this will stay as is, unless the Occupy Wall Street movement is heard and gets their way. Which I hope it will.

The "Occupy" movement is a bunch of garbage. A bunch of self righious people who think the world is owed to them. Its steady loosing steam as well as public support and I for one, and thankfull.

Why, what's wrong with what they say?

I appreciate the debate, I could go on on about this, in the end I gave some of your positions some thought and do find validity in some of what you say, but if stuff goes down between the US and China, it will already be too late, don't think for a minute that we do not have enemies who are waiting for the right moment to hit, China has factories already up and running we have a whole lot of empty buildings. We can't just pull our stuff back overnight. Iran just announced they have produced their first nuclear rod, and they test fired a missile that can evade satellite detection.
Glad to see you sympathize with the occupy movement. I feel they have been unjustly demonized in certain news circles. We need to get our priorities back in order here in the US. That goes for any country really though. Yeah, the whole system right now is flawed, not just economically, but politically as well, what we have right now is big business and world leaders who have sold out there own people for power and money.

Court Jester wrote:To clarify without political debate...
The occupy movement was initially about bringing to light the homelessness caused by foreclosures of properties held by banks connected to wall street exchange firms. These toxic loans were wagered and traded against other commodities, were the cause of the need for bailouts, hence the last resort effort to bring to light (in the media, to the public) the juxtaposition of people who risked and lost yet still got paid and bailed out by the government to the people who really have no other course of action due to the recent decline of jobs being shipped to cheaper labor (Indian customer support call centers, Asian sweat shops, et al). Everything is connected internationally. I would go on, but this is something I've been following passionately, hence would not be in the best interest of the thread.

Just one other thing... to the person that said superpowers no longer want to war with each other; please take a deep breath, get something warm to drink, and reconsider that position with just a bit more analytic regard.

^THIS.

After reading this article at the beginning of this thread, I went and looked at all four of the Takara Masterpiece Transformers that I own.

And they were all made in China. And that made me sad. I'd hate to think of the toys that I have being made in horrid conditions. I'd rather know that they were made by employees that were well treated and given good wages. I hope that is the case, but I'm not so sure now.



I think the major problem is that we want Cadillac service at rock bottom prices. And if a comapany doesn't jump and do what the customer wants, the customer moves elsewhere. So to keep up with these demands, the company moves it's manufacturing overseas to a plant that it can pay workers lower wages so it can sell a lower priced product.

The thing is, while Hasbro is certainly culpable of what it is charged with, so are we who buy from them. Unless we are willing to put up with paying more for a product that is made in the US, we are going to keep seeing the same things over and over and over. Crappy (and often poisonous)products made at near slave-labor conditions.


I'm willing to put up with a price increase if it comes from that product being made in the US. It means that someone is being paid a living wage, can eat well and doesn't have so little money he is forced to live in a dump. Yes, it would hurt my wallet a little, but dammit it's worth it.

Zombie Starscream wrote: After reading this article at the beginning of this thread, I went and looked at all four of the Takara Masterpiece Transformers that I own.

And they were all made in China. And that made me sad. I'd hate to think of the toys that I have being made in horrid conditions. I'd rather know that they were made by employees that were well treated and given good wages. I hope that is the case, but I'm not so sure now.

95% of the products you own from toys to the clothes that are on your back are made in china. All with simular labar that you see in the TF factories.

Zombie Starscream wrote:I'm willing to put up with a price increase if it comes from that product being made in the US. It means that someone is being paid a living wage, can eat well and doesn't have so little money he is forced to live in a dump. Yes, it would hurt my wallet a little, but dammit it's worth it.

Really? Do you feel this way for everything you own, or just your TF's? Are you will to pay more for nearly evrything you own or just your TF toys you love so dearly?

Yes, iut pains many that the products you love are made in factories that do not live up to North America's standards, but like you said, the consumer is the driving force. If you feel that way with one product, then you must feel that way with everything. From your TF's, to your Ipad.

Looks like Hasbro's not the only one under fire. Take a look at this story. And notice how similar Microsoft's response is to Hasbro's.

http://kotaku.com/5875359/xbox-factory-suicide-threats-were-over-regular-production-adjustments-says-microsoft

Thing is how many people say, "Are you willing to pay more for your stuff?"
This is basically like saying is your stuff worth more to you than another human being's dignity, to this I say wtf? I heard in some factories there are like 8 people to a small dorm and in many cases they are not even allowed to communicate with each other. No tv, no nothin. Just work, day in and day out. These people slave and don't get sh@@ while all some(sheltered upper class types) people care about is their precious "stuff". I'm not tryin to incite anyone but comeon. If an ipad or transformer is worth more to you than another person's suffering and dignity then really wtf? We abolished slavery in the US but we still tolerate it in other countries, wtf?

This thread reminded me of that Dave Chappell clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isqZCdDp ... ata_player

aeleven wrote:This thread reminded me of that Dave Chappell clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isqZCdDp ... ata_player

Dat is some ballin' @$$ sh@@ right there. Love the end of the clip. I'll be laffin bout that for days.

Deszaras1979 wrote:Thing is how many people say, "Are you willing to pay more for your stuff?"
This is basically like saying is your stuff worth more to you than another human being's dignity, to this I say wtf? I heard in some factories there are like 8 people to a small dorm and in many cases they are not even allowed to communicate with each other. No tv, no nothin. Just work, day in and day out. These people slave and don't get sh@@ while all some(sheltered upper class types) people care about is their precious "stuff". I'm not tryin to incite anyone but comeon. If an ipad or transformer is worth more to you than another person's suffering and dignity then really wtf? We abolished slavery in the US but we still tolerate it in other countries, wtf?

NO, its an honest question. I understand your not nessasarly singling me out, but I asked the question because many do put these toys that they have devoted so much time too above other things. But the thing is if you feel this way then it shouldn't matter if its a transformer or tooth brush. NO i don't like the fact that products we buy could possibly be made people being paid pennies an hour. (or day).But you know what? I didn't ask companies to pay their employess pennies so i can afford to buy the things i like.
And if there are companies that are really stuffing familes and forcing them to work for pennies 24/7, then yes, those factories should be shut down.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Deszaras1979 wrote:Thing is how many people say, "Are you willing to pay more for your stuff?"
This is basically like saying is your stuff worth more to you than another human being's dignity, to this I say wtf? I heard in some factories there are like 8 people to a small dorm and in many cases they are not even allowed to communicate with each other. No tv, no nothin. Just work, day in and day out. These people slave and don't get sh@@ while all some(sheltered upper class types) people care about is their precious "stuff". I'm not tryin to incite anyone but comeon. If an ipad or transformer is worth more to you than another person's suffering and dignity then really wtf? We abolished slavery in the US but we still tolerate it in other countries, wtf?

NO, its an honest question. I understand your not nessasarly singling me out, but I asked the question because many do put these toys that they have devoted so much time too above other things. But the thing is if you feel this way then it shouldn't matter if its a transformer or tooth brush. NO i don't like the fact that products we buy could possibly be made people being paid pennies an hour. (or day).But you know what? I didn't ask companies to pay their employess pennies so i can afford to buy the things i like.
And if there are companies that are really stuffing familes and forcing them to work for pennies 24/7, then yes, those factories should be shut down.

No I really wasn't talking about you in particular, but what you say about you didn't ask for it, that is what i'm sayin, alot of people who make the are you willing to pay more argument is that it is the consumer demand for lower prices that forces companies to move their business offshore, it is not the consumer or govt regulation or high taxes. Tax rates during the Bush administration were lower than when Clinton was presdident, regulations were severely loosened, yet companies have been offshoring jobs with wreckless abandon since 2002. What happened was Bush got rid of a lot of barriers like tariffs on imported goods from China, allowing many big businesses to move over seas so that they could employ workers for little of nothing. Also, he got money from China to pay for his war. All it boils down to is greed on the part of big corporations, the govt, and wall street. I don't want to be redundant so I'll leave it at that. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I'm just expressing my thoughts on the subject.
You should look up on youtube about the iphone workers committing suicide, and maybe it's not the most serious program but the daily show just did an excellent(and very funny) expose on sweatshops. For the record, I do not own an ipad or iphone. It's not like we can go into China and make them do right by their people, but big business shouldn't be so anxious to make a profit that they exploit the communist regime's hold on their people either. It's not like Reagan would've let our jobs go to the old USSR. This is not just a problem in the US though. Big businesses in other countries are outsourcing the production of products to China that could be made in their own country. Globalization and intertwining economies has f***ed a lot of countries up(just look at the EU mess).God I could go on and on but this is just beating a dead horse to death, burying it, digging it up, and beating it again, then repeating it infinity more times. Dave Chappelle FTW.

We did it! We changed the world for the better... oh wait. It totally blew over. Well done, fandom.

While this news is related to Apple rather than Hasbro, now that Foxconn has been pressured to do something to address the conditions for workers, the various other slavedriving companies in China may have some incentive to follow suit.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-foxconn-vow-wide-revamp-200107606.html