Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Fearing wrote:The only way this could possibly make sense is if they are rebooting an entire multiverse's continuity and these are different universes. I haven't seen Prime, but from what I've read, clearly it doesn't fit with WFC and Exodus, and while WFC and Exodus could both plausibly be prequels to the original G1 cartoon (the book much moreso than the game as the inclusion of certain characters in the game, even if you try to make a side story in your head to explain why they'd be there, just doesn't make sense, while the book goes out of its way to try to include all the events from Cybertron's past that were a part of the TV show and doesn't have any major contradictions that are any more an issue that was the show already had within itself), neither of them really fit together with each other, so you could only have one or the other be prequels to the show (I'd pick Exodus, the game was super fun, but just a few small tweaks would have fixed a lot storywise). They have to be talking about a whole new multiverse here, or they just haven't actually read their own stories.

Being this is Hasbro, it's most likely they haven't read their own stories.

Their cartoon department probably said "oh yeah, the stories match up with the game" having never actually bothered to read the games script or even bothered to play it.

There's also the problem that even even Exodus doesn't fit with Exodus.

I would like to bring something up.

Yes Prime, WFC and Exodus contradict each other, while the later even contradicts itself in a few instances.
They all share the same basic thing, especially WFC and Exodus which are basically the same story just told differently.

I believe this is due to a lack of communication between the 3 teams that worked on these. I guess Hasbro created a basic outline for each team to follow, containing characters, technology etc...
And I believe the source material was changed while High Moon and who ever wrote Exodus took a few liberties, while the main part of the new Continuity, the cartoon, made changes to its back story and failed to tell the others, this is also the reason why a Movie novelization and comic adaptation always differ from each other, most work and attention goes into the main project.

Also High Moon never stated that the game was G1, all they said was that they wanted it to feel and look like G1 while the game itself is based on the upcoming cartoon.

The only thing that happened is that someone didn't care to tell Exodus and WFC about the changes.
This is also the reason why the G1 toon and comic, both produced by Marvel, are different while they where originally meant to be based of the exact same back story and material, the cartoon team just decided to change things and move in a different direction. The only difference is that Hasbro decided to keep both separate back then.

And the only real continuity glitch between WFC and Prime which can't be explained away is the backstory to Megatron and Prime.

Where is the aforementioned erroneous response from UK Hasbro? I'd like to read that.

Dead Metal wrote:And the only real continuity glitch between WFC and Prime which can't be explained away is the backstory to Megatron and Prime.

Also Dark Energon. Starscream and Megatron act like they've never seen it before, it's effects are entirely different, and they make a big deal about Megatron launching a chunk of it at Cybertron despite the fact that he already seeded the planet--right down to the core--with Dark Energon in WfC. There's also the matter that none of the Autobots and Decepticons start rising up as Zombies in WfC even though that would be totally awesome.

Come on, High Moon, make your next DLC a Robot Zombie Apocalypse campaign. People will start playing again if you do, and you'll fix a continuity error in the process.

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:And the only real continuity glitch between WFC and Prime which can't be explained away is the backstory to Megatron and Prime.

Also Dark Energon. Starscream and Megatron act like they've never seen it before, it's effects are entirely different, and they make a big deal about Megatron launching a chunk of it at Cybertron despite the fact that he already seeded the planet--right down to the core--with Dark Energon in WfC. There's also the matter that none of the Autobots and Decepticons start rising up as Zombies in WfC even though that would be totally awesome.

Come on, High Moon, make your next DLC a Robot Zombie Apocalypse campaign. People will start playing again if you do, and you'll fix a continuity error in the process.

That can be explained as the Prime Dark energon being a different kind of Dark Energon, with different effects, Arcee even said that it looked like experiments the Decepticons did during the War. And they did know what Dark Energon was, just that they where unfamiliar with the Blood of Unicron Dark Energon.

The problem isn't WFC.

A video game take 2 years of development at least, which means that High Moon probably started developing WFC and its story back in 2008 at the latest. Animated was still thriving and the Hub was probably not even conceptualized yet, let alone Prime and its continuity.

The only problem here is Hasbro making a connection here where there isn't one. I'm sure High Moon had no intentions of their project being anything more than a homage to G1, and then only following it up with another game if it did well. Hasbro decided to make it the start of their 'master continuity' of which Prime is supposed to be (High Moon has never stated their game was the start of a grander continuity, only Hasbro)and neglected to keep with the source material.

Lord Onixprime wrote:The problem isn't WFC.

A video game take 2 years of development at least, which means that High Moon probably started developing WFC and its story back in 2008 at the latest. Animated was still thriving and the Hub was probably not even conceptualized yet, let alone Prime and its continuity.

The only problem here is Hasbro making a connection here where there isn't one. I'm sure High Moon had no intentions of their project being anything more than a homage to G1, and then only following it up with another game if it did well. Hasbro decided to make it the start of their 'master continuity' of which Prime is supposed to be (High Moon has never stated their game was the start of a grander continuity, only Hasbro)and neglected to keep with the source material.

No sorry they stated themselves that it's based on Prime:


read the full interview.
If the pics aren't big enough, right click them since the forum sizes them down.
The source is this:
http://transformersclub.com/TCCmagprev.cfm

Not really, The TFCC interviewer kept bringing up the cartoon, but the guy being interviewed dodged the cartoon in every response.

Like I said, it is clearly Hasbro trying to make them fit together, the developer hasn't done that at all. Even that interview works to support it.

Oh, how I wish I had gotten to this topic sooner, as I had just gotten through this very same conversation and email from Hasbro over at Unicron.com.

First of all, for those of you who are acting as if we are *just now* being told this information, let me make this clear to you: WE HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS INFORMATION FOR MONTHS NOW! THIS IS NOT NEW INFORMATION!!!

Hasbro has already stated time and time again that the three are together in the same aligned continuity.

And, YES, there are a plethora of continuity errors in this concept. But let me ask you this, are continuity errors anything new? NO!

Need I remind you that this is The Transformers? One of the most fictionally convoluted and varied franchises! It's not like this kind of retcon hasn't been done before. Look at all that's come about in past and recent incarnations:

• Forcing Cybertron in with Armada and Energon.
• Forcing Galaxy Force in with Micron Densetsu and Super Link.
• Relocating Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo to occur "tens of thousands of years" after Beast Wars Returns instead of before it.
• Forcing Car Robots into the Japanese G1 continuity
• Kiss Players... 'nuff said
• Forcing the Japanese dub of Animated to be a supposed "prequel" to the Japanese dubs of the live action movies
• Changing the Japanese version of the G1 episode "Call of the Primitives" to involve time travel
• Changing Primacron's assistant into being Primus, Vector Sigma, and the Oracle all at the same time
• Forcing the Beast Wars Diorama Story (which includes Movie characters crossing over into the Beast Wars) into the Japanese G1 continuity
• Making Alpha Trion into one of the Original 13 TFs, who are all Multiversal Singularites, when he has a Shattered Glass counterpart
• Claiming that Multversal Singularities do not exist in the WFC/Exodus/Prime continuity (when it was established that the 13 are indeed Mult-Sings), thus seemingly placing WFC/Exodus/Prime outside of the TF Multiverse (so, would that now make it an omniverse?)

And all this, and more, is official! Nonsensical blasphemy, but official, nonetheless. Is this case really any different?

As far the Dark Energon contradiction goes, let me turn your attention to something important. As Dead Metal said above, this Dark Eerngon could very well be a different kind of Dark Eenrgon than what was seen in the games/book. A piece of evidence of this would be how the Dark Energon in the show is called the "Blood of Unicron", whereas the different substance seen in the games/book is called the "Sparks of Unicron". The "Sparks" variation could act as an addictive power-up, while the Blood variant would act as a reanimator of the dead.

As for the characters, how can we say that everyone is so different? We know nothing of the interluding period between the games/book and the cartoon. We know that they have been on Earth for at least 3 years, but we don't know how long it's been since they left Cybertron. And the show did say that war proceeded to continue on other planets after it was moved off of Cybertron. Earth could have only been one of them. Perhaps after they all left Cybertron at the end of the games/book, they headed for other worlds and continued to fight there.

And Optimus did say that his team of five were the *last* Autobots remaining on Earth, implying that there were others with him on Earth beforehand. Those other bots could have either been killed off screen or left to fight in the war on other planets prior to the first episode.

The characters that have appeared in Prime fiction who also showed up in the games/book are not all so different from before. Take a look at each of these characters for sec and think for moment:

• Optimus - practically the same as before
• Bumblebee - hard to say, as he wasn't given enough focus in the show for us to really explore his character yet
• Arcee - she wasn't in the WFC main story mode enough to tell for sure
• Ratchet - he could have grown into his gruffness, as he seems older in Prime than in WFC/Exodus. Wouldn't you get upset if you were trapped in some weird place far away from home for several years too?
• Cliffjumper - he wasn't in the 360/PS3/PC game (only the DS game, which I haven't played/experienced), so I dunno yet
• Megatron - I can see his WFC/Exodus persona still in him somewhat
• Starscream - he's still kinda similar
• Soundwave - like BB, he's not explored enough in the show yet to tell for sure
• Breakdown - the only one who seems thoroughly different. What did they do to him?

And while Optimus did say in the first episdoe that Megatron had turned on him during the war instead of before, this isn't exactly inaccurate towards Exodus. Even the war hadn't actually gone into full force yet, Megatron technically did already start warring with the caste system, by secretly establishing a militarized force under Orion Pax's nose, during the times when the two were debating about what should be done about Cyberron then-current social state. When Pax was appointed Prime, Megs turned on him, gave an offical decalaration of war, and then proceeded to unleash his underground militia across Cybertron. It wasn't so much as Optimus stating conflicting information, but ratehr, he wasn't being specific enough.

As of now, this is how the timelines of the modern aligned continuity family go (red arrows represent a forced retcon):

Timeline 1: WFC comic --> WFC console game --> some "Movie-esque" events --> Prime graphic novel --> Prime cartoon

Timeline 2: Exodus novel --> some "Movie-esque" events --> Prime graphic novel --> Prime cartoon

Timeline 3: WFC 'Cons DS game --> WFC 'Bots DS game --> some "Movie-esque" events --> Prime graphic novel --> Prime cartoon

Timeline 4: Cybertron Adventures game --> some "Movie-esque" events --> Prime graphic novel --> Prime cartoon

NOTE: I'm not certain, but the WFC comic may be able to occur before the WFC DS games and the Cybertron Adventures game as well as the WFC console game.

Dead Metal wrote:That can be explained as the Prime Dark energon being a different kind of Dark Energon, with different effects, Arcee even said that it looked like experiments the Decepticons did during the War. And they did know what Dark Energon was, just that they where unfamiliar with the Blood of Unicron Dark Energon.

But they never said there was a difference, and they never made any mention to there being any other kind of Dark Energon. Starscream didn't say "How is that different from what we were using?" He actually says Dark Energon is "so rare as to be non-existent." Despite the fact that HE was Megatron's main supplier!

And there were no "experiments" during the war, there was just Megatron spreading as much Dark Energon as he possibly could. And even if it there were, maybe something Arcee saw in the Kaon prison, she should have been able to identify it as Dark Energon.

Face it, you can't tie Prime in with WfC, just like you can't tie Animated in with G1. There's too many continuity errors with the characters directly contradicting the only explanations.

Shadowman wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:That can be explained as the Prime Dark energon being a different kind of Dark Energon, with different effects, Arcee even said that it looked like experiments the Decepticons did during the War. And they did know what Dark Energon was, just that they where unfamiliar with the Blood of Unicron Dark Energon.

But they never said there was a difference, and they never made any mention to there being any other kind of Dark Energon. Starscream didn't say "How is that different from what we were using?" He actually says Dark Energon is "so rare as to be non-existent." Despite the fact that HE was Megatron's main supplier!

Starscream didn't say that, it was Ratchet.
Megatron stated that he's found a new source of Dark Energon, the Blood of Unicron.

And there were no "experiments" during the war, there was just Megatron spreading as much Dark Energon as he possibly could. And even if it there were, maybe something Arcee saw in the Kaon prison, she should have been able to identify it as Dark Energon.

Megatron didn't experiment with Dark energon during WFC, I never said that. Nobody could identify the stuff as Dark energon, since it was different from the DE they knew off.
As I said, these inconsistencies are due to a lack of communication between the teams.

Face it, you can't tie Prime in with WfC, just like you can't tie Animated in with G1. There's too many continuity errors with the characters directly contradicting the only explanations.

Who wants to tie Animated to G1?
And you should face that WFC and Prime are tied together and are in continuity with each other. Besides there are less inconsistencies between the two then between the idw comics from the past 2 years. And those where overseen by "editors" and just one company.

Shadowman wrote:But they never said there was a difference, and they never made any mention to there being any other kind of Dark Energon. Starscream didn't say "How is that different from what we were using?" He actually says Dark Energon is "so rare as to be non-existent." Despite the fact that HE was Megatron's main supplier!

Ratchet said that, not Screamer. Besides, the stuff was scarce to begin with in the games and book. It wasn't until it had been mass-produced that there was a lot of the stuff. And by the pointof the Prime cartoon, maybe Cybertron had been disinfected enough that Dark Energon did exist in abundance anymore.

Shadowman wrote:And there were no "experiments" during the war, there was just Megatron spreading as much Dark Energon as he possibly could. And even if it there were, maybe something Arcee saw in the Kaon prison, she should have been able to identify it as Dark Energon.

No experiments? Um, Shockwave did a whole buch of creepy, inhuman experimentations during the war. Was bringing Trypticon to life not an experiment?

So I looked it up; Dark Energon was emanated by Unicron when he attacked Cybertron, but was defeated and driven off by the Original 13. What samples could be found were left to the Seeker Caste, and thus Starscream, to study aboard Trypticon station. I don't know if Starscream knew about it's origins...but Soundwave did, and he doesn't typically hide things from Megatron.

So the creator of Dark Energon is, in fact, Unicron. Thus, the "Blood of Unicron" is the only possible version there is. Even if the mass produced Dark Energon is different from the original samples, where would he have gotten it? I seriously doubt he'd be able to steal a sample from Unicron and get away with it.

Prime and WfC may be the same continuity, but they are mashed together EXTREMELY poorly.

Okay. It's time to stop. I have resisted the urge to use TvTropes in this forum until now, but things seem to be getting out of hand.

REQUIRED READING:

BellisariosMaxim

MST3KMantra

*ahem*

Rule of Cool

...and his name is Primus, my lord

and, lastly thus: They are even pictured for frick's sake

**One more. Hasbro does follow the mantra that ...

Shadowman wrote:So I looked it up; Dark Energon was emanated by Unicron when he attacked Cybertron, but was defeated and driven off by the Original 13. What samples could be found were left to the Seeker Caste, and thus Starscream, to study aboard Trypticon station. I don't know if Starscream knew about it's origins...but Soundwave did, and he doesn't typically hide things from Megatron.

So the creator of Dark Energon is, in fact, Unicron. Thus, the "Blood of Unicron" is the only possible version there is. Even if the mass produced Dark Energon is different from the original samples, where would he have gotten it? I seriously doubt he'd be able to steal a sample from Unicron and get away with it.

Except that the type of Dark Energon in the games and book was called the "Sparks of Unicron", whereas the new source Megs found in the cartoon was called the "Blood of Unicron".

Shadowman wrote:Prime and WfC may be the same continuity, but they are mashed together EXTREMELY poorly.

Exactly! The new aligned continuity consists of WFC, Exodus, and Prime in a forced manner. They are all together, but in an imperfect way. Imperfection is what we're stuck with.

I read them all already.

The problem is, this isn't about forgiving in the face of trivial mistakes. This is about Hasbro claiming two series are connected, when you can't actually connect them without splitting hairs, twisting characters' words, or just blatantly ignoring official materials. Like I said, it's like claiming Animated and G1 are connected (Which some people WERE, due to the use of G1 footage in the pilot) when it clearly isn't.

Oh, and scroll down to "Western Animation" here this FUBAR is already mentioned.

Continuity errors are definitely nothing new in Transformers, or in many franchises for that matter.
Let's accept that WFC and Prime are the same somehow and move on.

AutobotTrainer wrote:Oh, and scroll down to "Western Animation" here this FUBAR is already mentioned.

Even worse is that Transformers is the only example is Western Animation.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Continuity errors are definitely nothing new in Transformers, or in many franchises for that matter.
Let's accept that WFC and Prime are the same somehow and move on.

If I didn't accept that the two series are poorly tied together when Hasbro said it, I don't think I'm going to start now.

Also, the original post mentions a "wrong answer." But what was the answer?

EDIT: Well, okay, I can accept that they're poorly tied together by Hasbro. But that doesn't mean I'll stop complaining about it.

Shadowman wrote:EDIT: Well, okay, I can accept that they're poorly tied together by Hasbro. But that doesn't mean I'll stop complaining about it.

Of course not. I'm gonna keep nitpicking about every possible continuity error I can spot. But I won't ever let that stop my enjoyment of the series.


As for this "wrong answer" given by Hasbro UK that several keep asking about, isn't kinda obvious? The question that was asked is if the three mediums were tied together. This email is rectifying this supposed "wrong answer" by saying that, yes, they are together. This would indiciate that the wrong answer given is that they somehow are not together. It's as simple as that, apparently.

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:EDIT: Well, okay, I can accept that they're poorly tied together by Hasbro. But that doesn't mean I'll stop complaining about it.

Of course not. I'm gonna keep nitpicking about every possible continuity error I can spot. But I won't ever let that stop my enjoyment of the series.

Oh, absolutely. Hasbro's attempts at mashing together WfC and Prime aren't going to make Prime any less totally awesome.

Sabrblade wrote:As for this "wrong answer" given by Hasbro UK that several keep asking about, isn't kinda obvious? The question that was asked is if the three mediums were tied together. This email is rectifying this supposed "wrong answer" by saying that, yes, they are together. This would indiciate that the wrong answer given is that they somehow are not together. It's as simple as that, apparently.

I figured it would be a lot less obvious than that.

This makes about as much sense as shoehorning Galaxy Force into being a follow-up to Armada/Energon. Cybertron (the show that resulted from that bad idea) was just broken. The Humans didn't even remember there were robots on earth before, yeah cuz that makes sense after they had giant cities built with them. YEAH.

NuclearConvoy wrote:This makes about as much sense as shoehorning Galaxy Force into being a follow-up to Armada/Energon. Cybertron (the show that resulted from that bad idea) was just broken. The Humans didn't even remember there were robots on earth before, yeah cuz that makes sense after they had giant cities built with them. YEAH.

Basically all the inconsistencies were caused by Unicron being destroyed and creating a rip in time and space. Because that's perfectly reasonable.

Shadowman wrote:Like I said, it's like claiming Animated and G1 are connected (Which some people WERE, due to the use of G1 footage in the pilot) when it clearly isn't.

Good point, I remember back when I knew nothing about TransFormers, I insisted EVERY continuity EVER was connected in one direct story...

Ok maybe "nothing" doesn't quite describe what I thought...