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Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

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Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby cotss2012 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:51 am

...I am willing to forgive everyone who was involved in the production of the Bayformers movies for almost everything that they did wrong.

I've come to realize that bad stories come in two fundamental varieties: there are the ones that annoy me the same amount each time I see one, and there are the ones that annoy me more and more each time, because they recycle the SAME DAMN CLICHES OVER AND OVER, and every time I see one, I experience the combined annoyance that I felt from every single time I was annoyed by this type of story before.

The Bayformers movies are stupid, but they're stupid in completely original ways. I have never, in all my years of movie-watching, seen a movie in which a human dies and goes to Robot Heaven, and all of the giant angel robots bring him back to life because he earned the key to a sun-destroying machine through his courage or whatever. It's stupid, but it's an awesome kind of stupid that I've never seen before.

Cars is the other kind of stupid. I won't even go into the fact that these guys obviously stole their idea from the Chevron commercials that started back in 1996. Let's start with the main character, something something Lightning, who has absolutely no personality beyond what is required to fit into the spoiled-celebrity-who-needs-to-get-out-more archetype that Disney hadn't touched for almost six whole years. While on the road, he becomes separated from his traveling companion, who sounds suspiciously like the pig from Toy Story and whom he tries to follow only to find out that he's been following the wrong guy. He gets stuck in Craphole-with-a-pleasant-name, Nevada, with a population of 8 people, all of whom play up some kind of Southern or Midwestern stereotype that would make this guy look subtle. From there, we move on to the hit-on-the-hot-chick-before-finding-out-she's-your-opponent scene, which doesn't really work too well when the characters are CARS but which nonetheless tells us exactly how these two characters' attitudes toward each other will change over the next 90 minutes, and then to the you're-old-so-you-can't-teach-me-anything scene that tells us exactly how THOSE two characters' attitudes toward each other will change over the next 90 minutes. This goes on until the end, at which point our protagonist gets to the big game, starts losing much more severely than he should, pulls ahead because of the power of friendship, and finally has the chance to do what he set out to do from the very beginning of the movie, but decides against it for really, mind-numbingly stupid reasons.

You can say what you want about the relative uselessness of Mikaela and Carly, or the talents of the actresses women who played them, but did either of them have a "they meet, she hates him right away, so you know they'll be an item by the end of the movie" moment? No. Was Megatron defeated because Optimus gave the Autobots a cheesy lecture about the importance of teamwork? Nope. Was Sam the kind of cut-out stereotype that you'd find in The Breakfast Club or Degrassi: The Next Generation? Nonono! Given the choice between these two kinds of bad - given the choice between "that's as interesting as my last acid trip and makes about as much sense" ideas and "let's just blatantly rip off every other movie ever made and not bother coming up with anything original" ideas - I'll take Deep Wang and the enemy scrotum every time.

Also, I would pay anything to see Cars vs. Tremors. Just add a crazy survivalist car named Burt Hummer and you're all set!
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby RhA » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:41 am

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Seriously, they're just movies.

Seriously.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Burn » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:50 pm

RhA wrote:Seriously, they're just movies.

Seriously.


Which kids loved.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby BeastProwl » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:28 pm

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Burn wrote:
RhA wrote:Seriously, they're just movies.

Seriously.


Which kids loved.

yeah, I also loved cars.
Not to mention your forgetting ONE thing...
ITS A FREAKING DYSNEY MOVIE!
you want explosions and all that jizz, watch cars 2!
guess what? There's a cars 2!
And, when he stopped and lost the race to save the king and his career? That right there, was the best freakin scene in the whole film. Sure the movie's a bit..Predictable, but I mean, it's a kids movie! Like a kids book, you know there's always a happy ending! I mean, if you know your not going to like a film aabout talking cars, wich, in itself is illogical enough just by looking at the damn dvd cover, then next time stop. put it back. and dont watch the movie starring the talking cars!
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby cotss2012 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:34 pm

BeastProwl wrote:ITS A FREAKING DYSNEY MOVIE!


So was The Nightmare Before Christmas.

BeastProwl wrote:you want explosions and all that jizz, watch cars 2!


Explosions are cool, but does it have a good story?

BeastProwl wrote:And, when he stopped and lost the race to save the king and his career? That right there, was the best freakin scene in the whole film.


A low bar, to be sure.
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Shadowman » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:47 pm

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Is this going to be a theme? You just complaining about everything you don't like on here? Because I can't recall one post of yours so far that has been positive about the subject matter.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby SlyTF1 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:55 pm

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cotss2012 wrote:The Bayformers movies are stupid, but they're stupid in completely original ways. I have never, in all my years of movie-watching, seen a movie in which a human dies and goes to Robot Heaven, and all of the giant angel robots bring him back to life because he earned the key to a sun-destroying machine through his courage or whatever. It's stupid, but it's an awesome kind of stupid that I've never seen before.


First of all, I'm sick and damn tired of TF fans playing stupid to magnify the absurdity of a simple moment. This "robot heaven" is called the Well of Allsparks. Sam didn't go to the Well. All the knowledge from the Allspark that had embedded itself in Sam's brain, which held the collective wisdom of the first 13 (or 7)produced a VISION in his damn brain. What the Primes knew was in HIS HEAD. And apparently he began to understand what the Allspark was trying to tell him all along, damnit!

And I agree, Cars sucks ass. I've not seen the movies, but I will not withhold my judgement. I saw part of it though, and it sucked.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby cotss2012 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:07 pm

Shadowman wrote:Is this going to be a theme? You just complaining about everything you don't like on here? Because I can't recall one post of yours so far that has been positive about the subject matter.


I have repeatedly mentioned that TF Prime is awesome.

SlyTF1 wrote:This "robot heaven" is called the Well of Allsparks. Sam didn't go to the Well.


Funny how that wasn't actually mentioned in the movie.
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Tweezy » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:11 pm

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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Burn » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:12 pm

SlyTF1 wrote:And I agree, Cars sucks ass. I've not seen the movies, but I will not withhold my judgement. I saw part of it though, and it sucked.


So you're casting judgement on something you haven't seen in full.

Is it any wonder people don't like you? :roll:

But again, for the target audience, they were awesome movies.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:10 pm

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cotss2012 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Is this going to be a theme? You just complaining about everything you don't like on here? Because I can't recall one post of yours so far that has been positive about the subject matter.


I have repeatedly mentioned that TF Prime is awesome.

SlyTF1 wrote:This "robot heaven" is called the Well of Allsparks. Sam didn't go to the Well.


Funny how that wasn't actually mentioned in the movie.

Neither was Robot Heaven, and I don't think the Nostalgia Critic is the Authority of Transformers Mythos.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:46 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:
cotss2012 wrote:The Bayformers movies are stupid, but they're stupid in completely original ways. I have never, in all my years of movie-watching, seen a movie in which a human dies and goes to Robot Heaven, and all of the giant angel robots bring him back to life because he earned the key to a sun-destroying machine through his courage or whatever. It's stupid, but it's an awesome kind of stupid that I've never seen before.


First of all, I'm sick and damn tired of TF fans playing stupid to magnify the absurdity of a simple moment. This "robot heaven" is called the Well of Allsparks. Sam didn't go to the Well. All the knowledge from the Allspark that had embedded itself in Sam's brain, which held the collective wisdom of the first 13 (or 7)produced a VISION in his damn brain. What the Primes knew was in HIS HEAD. And apparently he began to understand what the Allspark was trying to tell him all along, damnit!


that might be your interpretation of those scenes, and it might be what the film makers intended...................but if that is the case, they did a very poor job of conveying that message on film.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:49 am

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Evil_the_Nub wrote:
cotss2012 wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:This "robot heaven" is called the Well of Allsparks. Sam didn't go to the Well.


Funny how that wasn't actually mentioned in the movie.

Neither was Robot Heaven,


it may not have been mentioned, but a robot heaven is the image they presented.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Dead Metal » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:33 am

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
cotss2012 wrote:The Bayformers movies are stupid, but they're stupid in completely original ways. I have never, in all my years of movie-watching, seen a movie in which a human dies and goes to Robot Heaven, and all of the giant angel robots bring him back to life because he earned the key to a sun-destroying machine through his courage or whatever. It's stupid, but it's an awesome kind of stupid that I've never seen before.


First of all, I'm sick and damn tired of TF fans playing stupid to magnify the absurdity of a simple moment. This "robot heaven" is called the Well of Allsparks. Sam didn't go to the Well. All the knowledge from the Allspark that had embedded itself in Sam's brain, which held the collective wisdom of the first 13 (or 7)produced a VISION in his damn brain. What the Primes knew was in HIS HEAD. And apparently he began to understand what the Allspark was trying to tell him all along, damnit!


that might be your interpretation of those scenes, and it might be what the film makers intended...................but if that is the case, they did a very poor job of conveying that message on film.

The Fallen, Megatron, and the Doctor/Scalpel all said that the knowledge of the Allspark was embedded in Sams brain, they even try to cut his brain out of his head to get to it.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby cotss2012 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:36 am

Dead Metal wrote:The Fallen, Megatron, and the Doctor/Scalpel all said that the knowledge of the Allspark was embedded in Sams brain...


...which has jack all to do with dying, going to heaven, and finding a bunch of robot angels waiting for you.
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Dead Metal » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:49 am

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cotss2012 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:The Fallen, Megatron, and the Doctor/Scalpel all said that the knowledge of the Allspark was embedded in Sams brain...


...which has jack all to do with dying, going to heaven, and finding a bunch of robot angels waiting for you.

Except that after death your brain stays active for a few moments, and keeping in mind that "robot heaven" is the Allspark, which was in his head at the time, he was you know in his own mind.
Also those weren't Angels, but the Primes, which I'm sure you're familiar with.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:42 am

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Dead Metal wrote:The Fallen, Megatron, and the Doctor/Scalpel all said that the knowledge of the Allspark was embedded in Sams brain, they even try to cut his brain out of his head to get to it.

I really dont see how that counters what I said.

the place Sam went when he died appeared to be a ROBOT HEAVEN, its how they depicted it.

sure, some of us long term fans can see past that and see their possible intent because we have a greater understanding of the tf myth, but the lay person ising going to see that.

the lay person saw robot heaven, .
Dead Metal wrote:Except that after death your brain stays active for a few moments, and keeping in mind that "robot heaven" is the Allspark, which was in his head at the time, he was you know in his own mind.
Also those weren't Angels, but the Primes, which I'm sure you're familiar with.


which wasnt presented any differently from the "all so many" outer body experiences and white tunnel images that we have seen in so many tv shows and movies.

And in depiction a robot heaven,the long dead Primes would have been viewed as angles,gods or ghosts.

I'll say again, if they intended that as a "allspark vision", they did an extremely poor job of conveying that message on film.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Dead Metal » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:30 pm

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:The Fallen, Megatron, and the Doctor/Scalpel all said that the knowledge of the Allspark was embedded in Sams brain, they even try to cut his brain out of his head to get to it.

I really dont see how that counters what I said.

the place Sam went when he died appeared to be a ROBOT HEAVEN, its how they depicted it.

sure, some of us long term fans can see past that and see their possible intent because we have a greater understanding of the tf myth, but the lay person ising going to see that.

the lay person saw robot heaven, .

My friends I went to go see it with, who have no idea of Transformers and keep asking me questions about meaningless crap in these films, they didn't see robot heaven. They saw a vision of the dead Primes Sam had.
Dead Metal wrote:Except that after death your brain stays active for a few moments, and keeping in mind that "robot heaven" is the Allspark, which was in his head at the time, he was you know in his own mind.
Also those weren't Angels, but the Primes, which I'm sure you're familiar with.


which wasnt presented any differently from the "all so many" outer body experiences and white tunnel images that we have seen in so many tv shows and movies.

And in depiction a robot heaven,the long dead Primes would have been viewed as angles,gods or ghosts.

I'll say again, if they intended that as a "allspark vision", they did an extremely poor job of conveying that message on film.

Yes, people would view the dead Primes as angels, if they had the memory of a goldfish and forgot about the many times they where brought up and shown in the movie up to that point.

Also I replied to your post, which to me, sounded like you questioned the thing about Sam having the knowledge of the Allspark. Upon reading the full post again, I see that you questioned the vision being a vision.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby SlyTF1 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:05 pm

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Dead Metal wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:The Fallen, Megatron, and the Doctor/Scalpel all said that the knowledge of the Allspark was embedded in Sams brain, they even try to cut his brain out of his head to get to it.

I really dont see how that counters what I said.

the place Sam went when he died appeared to be a ROBOT HEAVEN, its how they depicted it.

sure, some of us long term fans can see past that and see their possible intent because we have a greater understanding of the tf myth, but the lay person ising going to see that.

the lay person saw robot heaven, .

My friends I went to go see it with, who have no idea of Transformers and keep asking me questions about meaningless crap in these films, they didn't see robot heaven. They saw a vision of the dead Primes Sam had.
Dead Metal wrote:Except that after death your brain stays active for a few moments, and keeping in mind that "robot heaven" is the Allspark, which was in his head at the time, he was you know in his own mind.
Also those weren't Angels, but the Primes, which I'm sure you're familiar with.


which wasnt presented any differently from the "all so many" outer body experiences and white tunnel images that we have seen in so many tv shows and movies.

And in depiction a robot heaven,the long dead Primes would have been viewed as angles,gods or ghosts.

I'll say again, if they intended that as a "allspark vision", they did an extremely poor job of conveying that message on film.

Yes, people would view the dead Primes as angels, if they had the memory of a goldfish and forgot about the many times they where brought up and shown in the movie up to that point.


And if that wasn't enough, the Primes said that Optimus was their last descendent in the same scene.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Burn » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:12 pm

I can't believe even this thread has devolved into "let's pick apart the flaws of the TF movies". :roll:
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby BeastProwl » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:25 pm

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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:39 pm

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Dead Metal wrote:My friends I went to go see it with, who have no idea of Transformers and keep asking me questions about meaningless crap in these films, they didn't see robot heaven. They saw a vision of the dead Primes Sam had.


sorry, I just dont believe you, largely because you said they kept asking questions about "stupid stuff".

Yes, people would view the dead Primes as angels, if they had the memory of a goldfish and forgot about the many times they where brought up and shown in the movie up to that point.


I have no idea what point your trying to make here.No mater how many times they mentioned a down/upload from the alspark, that vision lacked any sign of the technological and looked far to spiritual.

Also I replied to your post, which to me, sounded like you questioned the thing about Sam having the knowledge of the Allspark. Upon reading the full post again, I see that you questioned the vision being a vision.


no, I didnt question any of it.I considered the possibility it was an allspark vision right from the start.

What I'm saying is that they failed to presented it that way.The scene was, visually, far to vague and open to interpretation.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:52 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
SlyTF1 wrote:And if that wasn't enough, the Primes said that Optimus was their last descendent in the same scene.


and what message do you think that delivered to the lay person?

lets evaluate what was seen on screen in the segment,

boy running for his life, explosions everywhere, boy get seriously injured, soljers work despratly to save boys life.

We see them stop trying, they all see to say, he's dead.............and then we see a heavenly landscape, clouds and clear blue skys......theres a surreal aspect to what we are viewing.

Then we see the Primes.........the primes said early to be dead for thousands of years, they speak of things beyond basic understanding, they impart great wisdom and knowledge on the boy,tell him it was always his destiny to find a "holy" like sacred item, they tell the boy how to return life to an other.......

and then send him back to the real world.


It looks and sounds like a holy myth and a heaven story.
Burn wrote:I can't believe even this thread has devolved into "let's pick apart the flaws of the TF movies". :roll:

sorry, that wasnt my intent.Its just the idea that the film was clear on what it was trying to depict is the true absurdity here.
Last edited by sto_vo_kor_2000 on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby cotss2012 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:55 pm

Burn wrote:I can't believe even this thread has devolved into "let's pick apart the flaws of the TF movies". :roll:


Yeah, it's not like I mentioned a few of them in the OP or anything :roll:
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

RiddlerJ wrote:Each one will come with an autographed picture of Michael Bay sitting on top of a huge pile of money.
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Re: Having just seen Pixar's "Cars"...

Postby Burn » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:07 pm

cotss2012 wrote:
Burn wrote:I can't believe even this thread has devolved into "let's pick apart the flaws of the TF movies". :roll:


Yeah, it's not like I mentioned a few of them in the OP or anything :roll:


Yes but you were also discussing "Cars", and some where along the line that disappeared and became nothing more than another thread to take apart the Bay movies. Because we can never have enough of them apparently.
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