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dragons wrote:sorry that it is samll i thought this might make things a little less confusing.???

you missed off something important, the new ironhide still has the big circles on the sids of his head

Immortal Starscream wrote:actualy, frenzy was origionaly going to be soundwave, not blackout. started as soundwave, then became soundbite, and finaly frenzy.

sorry, you are both right and wrong.

soundwave > vortex > blackout

AND

soundwave > soundbyte > frenzy

Archibald Witwicky wrote:

Trans4mers4ever wrote:(2) it's absolutely no more or less realistic for aliens to look insectoid than it is for them to look humanoid. there's no added realism there, it's only a farce.

Yes, actually, it is. Contrary to Alex's 'It's a hollywood cliche!' argument, aliens = insects is a long running sci-fi tradition, and with good reason.

A) Insects and fish are the most widespread, populous higher level life forms on this planet. There is a far wider variety and multitude of them than humans, birds, lizards, or anything else. Statistically, an alien is more likely to look like them than us.

B) Insects more than any other higher level life form can adapt to incredibly harsh living conditions. Life forms similar to insects would have an increased chance of survival, and therefore evolution, on harsh alien homeworlds. And there are far more of those than there are earth-like planets. For human like life to evolve on another planet, you'd essentially need a planet that matchs earth, both physically and historically, down to tiny detail.

So, sorry, yes. Insectoid aliens DO make far more sense than humanoid aliens. That's not neccisarily a good argument for making transformers look insectoid. But this 'OMG it's a stupid bs cliche' argument is well, a bs cliche.

The reasons insects dominate the Earth is due to myriad factors the least of which has anything to do with their 'looking insectoid'. Unless the aliens were to be the size of insects, reproduce en masse like insects, socialize like insects, thermoregulate like insects, etc. then their 'insectoid appearance' is a sci-fi cliche. The reasons insects exist at all is, like the evolution of all life, due to a combination of Earth's conditions and pure chance. If you're not talking about an 'alternate universe' version of Earth or an alien planet seeded by life from Earth then you're making assumptions just as big as those who'd claim a dominant alien species would be bipedal and humanoid. That's not even considering the biomechanical aspects which would make land-dwelling insectoid creatures the size of humans on a planet with similar gravity completely immobile due to their internal anatomy.

dragons wrote:sorry that it is samll i thought this might make things a little less confusing.???

Dragons, your Optimus Prime comparison is the killing stroke! I absolutely love it!

ironhide =

Faceful of Kitchen wrote:as for point #2, i never said i know what aliens would look like. i said nobody does, and in all likelyhood, they'd be totally unlike anything on earth. not humanoid, not insectoid, and not belonging to any other class of being that has ever existed on this planet. my point is that using realism as an argument for an insectoid appearance is stupid (especially in this case, as the primary insectoid element is the head).

Well, they don't look like any insect I've ever seen.

Shadowman wrote:Oh well, I'm sure all REAL aliens look exactly human.

Of course we do, why do you think we get around so easily on Earth? With weird human suits like in your "Men in Black" movie? No that would be weird... Wait a min... I'm not supose to be telling you this... *get's shot by the men in black and green alien blood splatters all over the Micheal Bay designs*

Shadowman wrote:I wonder why aliens have to look like insects.

Oh well, I'm sure all REAL aliens look exactly human.

insects have a more sophisticated and evolutionary adapted body towards thier enviroment. They have been on earth since almost the begining of life. It would make sense that an advanced civilization would have had time to evolve and incorporate these things into thier bodies as well. The human body is actually a pretty unique one, it makes more sense for an alien to resemble something more frequently found in nature..like an insect.

AbsumZer0 wrote:The reasons insects dominate the Earth is due to myriad factors the least of which has anything to do with their 'looking insectoid'. Unless the aliens were to be the size of insects, reproduce en masse like insects, socialize like insects, thermoregulate like insects, etc. then their 'insectoid appearance' is a sci-fi cliche.

Yes, that was pretty much my point.

Insectoid aliens are an age old SCI-FI cliche. Not a 'bs hollywood cliche' or a 'bs michael bay cliche' as many Transfans would have you beleive. It's an age old thing and has some(bad though they may be) roots in science and logic(as all sci-fi does).

It's an important distinction to make. One is a statement that essentially says 'OMG! This is dumb and baseless and just for the cash.' another says 'This is done in a long standing tradition for the medium.'

One is like saying 'OMG, the Japanese make robots blocky like Gundams to make cash!' and the other says 'The Japanese tend towards blocky robots as a tradition.'

That "Jazz" head is F@#$ING TERRIBLE!

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Shadowman wrote:I implied sarcastically that wanting aliens to look human is making a bit of a stretch, as it is very doubtful that any other life in the universe looks like us.

Have you looked at any G1 to present day Transformers? Because they sure as hell don't look like humans, and they don't look like insects either. If their argument for making the design look the way they do is that it make them look more alien then why make their robots modes humanoid at all? Why give then two arms, two legs, one head? They look this way because it is a 'Hollywood cliche' regardless of any pseudo science that might suggest that fish/insects are more likely to be the form aliens would take. Transformers arent even organic, why would they adhere to that?

Yours AK

I just started reading this and AK what you said was the first thing that ame to mind when Shadowman posted his question. why do they walk up right and have two legs and arms. And While noone is a authority on what aliens look like we all know what transformers look like and this aint them.

This is the type of thing that scares me. Either this movie bombs and impacts the franchise, or it succeeds and we're stuck with waves and waves of Bayformers or bayformer-esque monsters. Sadly, I would rather have the franchise end than be stuck with this sh*t.

Bluebullet wrote:This is the type of thing that scares me. Either this movie bombs and impacts the franchise, or it succeeds and we're stuck with waves and waves of Bayformers or bayformer-esque monsters. Sadly, I would rather have the franchise end than be stuck with this sh*t.

I've heard this sentiment before and I must confess I don't understand the reasoning behind it. The statement is clearly made from the perspective of a dislike of the film's direction. Let's break this down in to the two 'possibilities' proposed.

1) If this movie bombs it will impact the franchise (negatively).

I would say 'how so?'. Let's be honest here. If you're enough of a Transformers fan to know details about the movie at this stage of the game, you aren't going to suddenly dislike the concept of TF because you didn't care for the movie. Rather, it will only cement your belief that whatever iteration of the TF franchise you prefer is superior.

Which leads me to another point. The TF franchise is based on change. This franchise has been around for 20+ years. Every few years a new series is launched which is different from what has come before. And every time that happens there are those who cry "BLASPHEMY! THIS ISN'T TRANSFORMERS!". But you know what? Each new series has garnered it's own fans. Having a new iteration of TFs doesn't erase what has come before. If you like G1 it's still there. If you like Beast Wars it's still there etc etc etc.

2) If the film succeeds we'll be stuck with waves and waves of Bayformers or Bayformer-esque monsters.

If the film is a success, yes you will see a hell of a lot of movie merchandise. Why? Well, because clearly there will be a demand for it. That's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. Although there are people who are unhappy with the movie aesthetic, there are just as many people who are pleased with it and this is just within the TF fan-base. The general audience hasn't been exposed to anything yet and will not have the inherent bias that a long term fan has. This factor will leave them more readily able to accept the movie aesthetic as...well...simply what TFs are.

By the same token I seem to encounter quite a lot of comics, books, toys etc that cater to the different versions of the TFs franchise throughout the years even though they are no longer the primary focus. Again, just because there is a new version, that doesn't mean it erases that which has come before.

3) I would rather have the franchise end than be stuck with this sh*t.

That is a very selfish and childish thing to say. You would deny enjoyment for everyone but yourself simply because you personally don't like something? No one is forcing you to like this newest take on TFs. You should try to be respectful of those that don't feel the same way as yourself. People can disagree and still speak rationally and intelligently to one another.

Bluebullet wrote:This is the type of thing that scares me. Either this movie bombs and impacts the franchise, or it succeeds and we're stuck with waves and waves of Bayformers or bayformer-esque monsters. Sadly, I would rather have the franchise end than be stuck with this sh*t.

Hasbro has been selling TF toys that look nothing like Bayformers for 23 years. They wouldn't switch to Bayformers because of 1 movie, they just have to have all of the movie stuff be Bayformers. They'll keep making regular Hasbroformers for Heroes.

I'll bet that Bayformers will be limited to the movie series (yes, there will be sequels) and we'll still get normal Hasbroformers.

As for the heads, the only ones that I like are Jazz and Prime.

Phoenix.Prime wrote:

Bluebullet wrote:This is the type of thing that scares me. Either this movie bombs and impacts the franchise, or it succeeds and we're stuck with waves and waves of Bayformers or bayformer-esque monsters. Sadly, I would rather have the franchise end than be stuck with this sh*t.

I've heard this sentiment before and I must confess I don't understand the reasoning behind it. The statement is clearly made from the perspective of a dislike of the film's direction. Let's break this down in to the two 'possibilities' proposed.

1) If this movie bombs it will impact the franchise (negatively).

I would say 'how so?'. Let's be honest here. If you're enough of a Transformers fan to know details about the movie at this stage of the game, you aren't going to suddenly dislike the concept of TF because you didn't care for the movie. Rather, it will only cement your belief that whatever iteration of the TF franchise you prefer is superior.

Which leads me to another point. The TF franchise is based on change. This franchise has been around for 20+ years. Every few years a new series is launched which is different from what has come before. And every time that happens there are those who cry "BLASPHEMY! THIS ISN'T TRANSFORMERS!". But you know what? Each new series has garnered it's own fans. Having a new iteration of TFs doesn't erase what has come before. If you like G1 it's still there. If you like Beast Wars it's still there etc etc etc.

2) If the film succeeds we'll be stuck with waves and waves of Bayformers or Bayformer-esque monsters.

If the film is a success, yes you will see a hell of a lot of movie merchandise. Why? Well, because clearly there will be a demand for it. That's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. Although there are people who are unhappy with the movie aesthetic, there are just as many people who are pleased with it and this is just within the TF fan-base. The general audience hasn't been exposed to anything yet and will not have the inherent bias that a long term fan has. This factor will leave them more readily able to accept the movie aesthetic as...well...simply what TFs are.

By the same token I seem to encounter quite a lot of comics, books, toys etc that cater to the different versions of the TFs franchise throughout the years even though they are no longer the primary focus. Again, just because there is a new version, that doesn't mean it erases that which has come before.

3) I would rather have the franchise end than be stuck with this sh*t.

That is a very selfish and childish thing to say. You would deny enjoyment for everyone but yourself simply because you personally don't like something? No one is forcing you to like this newest take on TFs. You should try to be respectful of those that don't feel the same way as yourself. People can disagree and still speak rationally and intelligently to one another.

This is the best new guy we've had since Leonardo.

And Leonardo was a pretty good new guy.

Shadowman wrote:This is the best new guy we've had since Leonardo.

And Leonardo was a pretty good new guy.

Wow! Thank you very much!

Leonardo wrote:

Shadowman wrote:This is the best new guy we've had since Leonardo.

And Leonardo was a pretty good new guy.

Wow! Thank you very much!

Really, you were one of the coolest new guys I'd ever seen.

Most new guys ignore rules of grammar, post annoying question, etc. You did not.

Rock on.

Shadowman wrote:

Phoenix.Prime wrote:

Bluebullet wrote:This is the type of thing that scares me. Either this movie bombs and impacts the franchise, or it succeeds and we're stuck with waves and waves of Bayformers or bayformer-esque monsters. Sadly, I would rather have the franchise end than be stuck with this sh*t.

I've heard this sentiment before and I must confess I don't understand the reasoning behind it. The statement is clearly made from the perspective of a dislike of the film's direction. Let's break this down in to the two 'possibilities' proposed.

1) If this movie bombs it will impact the franchise (negatively).

I would say 'how so?'. Let's be honest here. If you're enough of a Transformers fan to know details about the movie at this stage of the game, you aren't going to suddenly dislike the concept of TF because you didn't care for the movie. Rather, it will only cement your belief that whatever iteration of the TF franchise you prefer is superior.

Which leads me to another point. The TF franchise is based on change. This franchise has been around for 20+ years. Every few years a new series is launched which is different from what has come before. And every time that happens there are those who cry "BLASPHEMY! THIS ISN'T TRANSFORMERS!". But you know what? Each new series has garnered it's own fans. Having a new iteration of TFs doesn't erase what has come before. If you like G1 it's still there. If you like Beast Wars it's still there etc etc etc.

2) If the film succeeds we'll be stuck with waves and waves of Bayformers or Bayformer-esque monsters.

If the film is a success, yes you will see a hell of a lot of movie merchandise. Why? Well, because clearly there will be a demand for it. That's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. Although there are people who are unhappy with the movie aesthetic, there are just as many people who are pleased with it and this is just within the TF fan-base. The general audience hasn't been exposed to anything yet and will not have the inherent bias that a long term fan has. This factor will leave them more readily able to accept the movie aesthetic as...well...simply what TFs are.

By the same token I seem to encounter quite a lot of comics, books, toys etc that cater to the different versions of the TFs franchise throughout the years even though they are no longer the primary focus. Again, just because there is a new version, that doesn't mean it erases that which has come before.

3) I would rather have the franchise end than be stuck with this sh*t.

That is a very selfish and childish thing to say. You would deny enjoyment for everyone but yourself simply because you personally don't like something? No one is forcing you to like this newest take on TFs. You should try to be respectful of those that don't feel the same way as yourself. People can disagree and still speak rationally and intelligently to one another.

This is the best new guy we've had since Leonardo.

And Leonardo was a pretty good new guy.

Essentially little more than a QFT. It's so awesome to see new posters who don't simply post 'OMGFBAYHEFAGDEVILBAYFORMSLOL*droolspitdrool*' or 'OMG stop whinign loser*droolspitdrool*' over and over again.

I appreciate the compliment, Shadowman. It's nice to have joined a forum where being lucid and rational isn't frowned upon in favor of spewing forth insults and the like.

Shadowman wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Shadowman wrote:This is the best new guy we've had since Leonardo.

And Leonardo was a pretty good new guy.

Wow! Thank you very much!

Really, you were one of the coolest new guys I'd ever seen.

Most new guys ignore rules of grammar, post annoying question, etc. You did not.

Rock on.

Well, the rules of grammar are very important.

I appreciate your kind words. Please accept this shiny thing as thanks.

Leonardo wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Shadowman wrote:This is the best new guy we've had since Leonardo.

And Leonardo was a pretty good new guy.

Wow! Thank you very much!

Really, you were one of the coolest new guys I'd ever seen.

Most new guys ignore rules of grammar, post annoying question, etc. You did not.

Rock on.

Well, the rules of grammar are very important.

I appreciate your kind words. Please accept this shiny thing as thanks.

Oooh, shiny.

Back on topic: Megatron's new CGI render rules all kinds of awesome.

The thing to remember is that humans haven't really evolved that much. We don't really seem to need to evolve. We build a world around us that suits our needs. In my opinion, although insects could be considered more evolutionary advanced, humans are definetly the better species.

I can't really put into words what I want to say, so I will just say 'man' kicks ass and insects eat poo.

Anway, why would a 50-foot robot need to be adapted to survive? It's habitat should be the one adapting to suit them.

I think that's what I meant to say...

Bluebullet wrote:This is the type of thing that scares me. Either this movie bombs and impacts the franchise, or it succeeds and we're stuck with waves and waves of Bayformers or bayformer-esque monsters. Sadly, I would rather have the franchise end than be stuck with this sh*t.

wow dude...Your Right

Does Starscream's head resemble a Grunt from Halo to anyone else?

the heads shouldent matter at all yes it is nice to see some familer faces but it is in my opinion that the personalaty is what matters that is why we love the transformert because we can relate to there problems and conflicts even if they are not exact copies IE mute bumble bee he doesn't have to talk to be enduring he still cares for and wants to help and protect his friend sam/spike