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Kudos to G1Sizzle! A very thorough and informative review. Much appreciated.

Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

Yet it still posts the review on the front page as news... I still think it gives the wrong message

leokearon wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

Yet it still posts the review on the front page as news... I still think it gives the wrong message

It's merely for educational purposes, giving ways to tell the fake from the real deal. First one to do so.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

Yet it still posts the review on the front page as news... I still think it gives the wrong message

It's merely for educational purposes, giving ways to tell the fake from the real deal. First one to do so.

That would be true if it was just showing the comparisions but the article is clearly a review as well, if it was just a comparisions they that would be fine but since it is also a review that says that people should buy them if they can't get the offical ones that is the problem

So, the reason you can tell the difference is because the KO doesn't suck as much as the original?

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

Really now...

What's so hard to understand about the situation?

1. Hey, there's KO figures out there.

2. Here's a review of said KO figures, turns out that the quality is comparible to the originals. Buyer beward.

3. End of transmission.

Insert the following comments to suit your taste:

A. KO figures are made of pure evil from the deepest bowels of hell. Buying them infects countless Hasbro employees with herpes. Don't do it or you'll be haunted by the Ghost of Michael Jackson.

B. KO figures are super awesome. Just because you didn't go to BotCon over three years ago, and just because you passed on the open availability of the Henkei seekers doesn't mean that you shouldn't have everything you've ever wanted all the time 100%. Buy buy buy.

Counterpunch wrote:B. KO figures are super awesome. Just because you didn't go to BotCon over three years ago, and just because you passed on the open availability of the Henkei seekers doesn't mean that you shouldn't have everything you've ever wanted all the time 100%. Buy buy buy.

This.

It's funny though. Even with the new found availability of these high quality KOs, I still wont be able to afford them. Partially due to the fact that I did recently spend a bunch of money on some KOs... which are all broken now (should've done more reading on those), but mostly because my mom is going into surgery soon.

Ah well, 'you win some, but you loose more often than not.'

Vicalliose wrote:I did recently spend a bunch of money on some KOs... which are all broken now (should've done more reading on those)

Only because I'm curious: Which ones did you buy? High quality ones, or ones on cheapo blister cards?

It Is Him wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:I did recently spend a bunch of money on some KOs... which are all broken now (should've done more reading on those)

Only because I'm curious: Which ones did you buy? High quality ones, or ones on cheapo blister cards?

Ok, so they're not all broken, but as useless as they are to me now they might as well be.

I got them from KO toys, I don't blame them, I should have spent more time thinking about it.

They're not THAT terrible, but I still regret the purchase. One was a Classics Bumblebee whos wheel broke off, the other was a Classics Prime that has the arm kibble broken off, and a Megatron to re-paint gray but the foot broke off. I also got a Thrust Ramjet to repaint into Dirge, but we all know what happened in that case. I got two other primes with them that aren't broken, but better versions have been seen since then.

Just wish I'd waited until I saw these to spend 50 bucks on KOs.

*edit* Aw jeez. It took me this long to realize I messed that up?

leokearon wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

leokearon wrote:Wait, the site is trying to warn us that there are Knockoff's about and then they display a review endorsing them?

What kind of message is that sending?

The reviewer is in no way affiliated with Seibertron.com, so it's his opinion and his alone. The site takes no position in the matter, other than buying KO's is at your own risk.

Yet it still posts the review on the front page as news... I still think it gives the wrong message

I posted it on the front page as a means for people to check if the toy they're buying is real or a KO. Since the review was completely integrated into the comparison it was impossible to just post the comparison by itself without destroying the original posters work.
I had second thoughts about posting it, due to it also being a review, but decided to do so anyway since as you can see from this thread there where a lot of concerns as how to identify the KO from the real deal so that people don't overpay and get stuck with a copy.

It's also not the first time we posted something like this, and it won't be the last ether. Especially since 3 of these KOs here are of extremely rare and pricey figures. So the moment someone posts a comparison of those it will get posted, even if it contains a review.

Damn bootleggers!

I demand they sell their bootlegs all over the world, not just in Japan!

(I hate exclusivity of figures)

My review was meant to serve two purposes:

1. To answer the question "Are these KOs high quality or garbage?"

2. To let people know how they can determine whether or not what they have bought or are about to buy is KO.

I am in no way endorsing or condemning the practice of bootlegging. I do buy bootlegs from time to time. I almost have to, because I live in China, and the supply of legit products here is scarce. If someone chooses not to buy KOs or bootlegs, then I would think this review would be helpful to them also. And it's helpful to those who do, because they can make wise decisions about spending their money. Obviously, I already had a legit original. I bought this one as a curiosity.

I do think that these particular bootlegs bear paying special attention to them. This is the first time we're seeing high quality, if not equal quality bootlegs being made of not only modern toys, but high-priced exclusives. These are not just the G1 KOs, which have several distinctions that mark them as fake. These are near perfect duplicates of exclusives that a lot of people are going to be fooled by.

By the way, I have noticed from pictures of the KO Skywarp that the same notching differences in the shoulder and knee exist. So this TC review should also be helpful in distinguishing fake Skywarps too.

Hi guys , there is another KO-thundercracker on sell in china .


Check it here http://bbs.actoys.net/read.php?tid-540737.html
(see the whole thread)


That one is much better at details and quality(comparing with the old KO version).
As you can see , a "CHMS" logo is carved on its leg .

Sizzle had something to do with this review, huh? Did you PM Mike from KO TOYS several times for his input before ordering? We know how you like to do all this research on a toy before you make a purchase. How you have to find out if a TOY can actually be played with as a TOY before you buy.

This is a guy who believes it's wrong to assume a toy can be actually played with.

This is a guy who spreads Mike from KO TOYS lies like it's gospel, despite the fact that Mike has ripped off many, many, people on this site and others.

Take this review with a grain of salt.

funklizard wrote:

Scaleface wrote:Yes, these are "replica" knockoffs. Unlike most knockoffs, which are obviously not official product, these try to look like the original, even have fake packaging.

I'm told there are SMALL differences. Different color inside the cockpit on the jets, blurry printing on the bottom of the box. It's REALLY CLOSE, but if you compare 2 side by side, it's possible to tell.

Not cool.

I hope that someone with the means to create a pictorial comparison of these counterfeits to known legitimate figures does so in the near future. This development is pretty unsettling for someone who recently purchased these figures on eBay (and did not pay knock-off prices).

I do not think legitimate sellers should be trafficking in these items--even when noting they are knock-offs. Once they're out there, it's just too easy for them to be resold as the real thing. I'd like to think that TakaraTomy would take some action in cases like this; unfortunately, I imagine there's very little they can do as it's probably very difficult to track down the actual counterfeiters.

I gotta disagree with you buddy. Whats not cool is the people who made the decision to let the Henkei Thundercracker become a victim of inflation and greed. No matter what politics or business stratagies were behind the decision, alot of people were denied a chance to own a classic mainstream G1 character. This is a chance to spread the love and give collectors of all incomes a chance to enjoy this figure.

I too bought the Henkei Thundercracker and Skywarp for $100 bucks each. But Im not complaining that sombody almost exactly duplicated my figure. I applaud it. Sometimes patience is a virtue. The people who held out are getting rewarded for their patience. But the people like me and you who "had to have it" learned a valueble lesson about patience. If I had known about these guys being available in November, I wouldnt have bought the Henkeis back in June at Botcon. I could care less about a little indent in the shoulder. In reality the figure is going to sit on a display shelf and look cool. I could have had the figures and saved $150 to use for something else. Wish I had known, but life goes on.


I mean no disrespect, I just feel KO Toys needs to be applauded for bringing the product to the people instead of excuses.

84forever wrote:Sizzle had something to do with this review, huh? Did you PM Mike from KO TOYS several times for his input before ordering? We know how you like to do all this research on a toy before you make a purchase. How you have to find out if a TOY can actually be played with as a TOY before you buy.

This is a guy who believes it's wrong to assume a toy can be actually played with.

This is a guy who spreads Mike from KO TOYS lies like it's gospel, despite the fact that Mike has ripped off many, many, people on this site and others.

Take this review with a grain of salt.

WTF are you talking about Mr. 2posts? Take your hate someplace else, talk to the elbow cuz the hand doesn't want to listen anymore.

I've bought from KOtoys.com before without problem, that's including KOLD Prime and Starscream. After reading this comparison, I bought the Ghost, Thundercracker, and Rainmakers(whom I will try to paint to be a touch more screen accurate). In case you wanted to tell me I'm "Robin Hooding" Hasbro/Takara, I already own 2 complete Games of Deception box sets, 2 each of Acidstorm, Starscream, and the other Starscream. 1 each of Thrust, Skywarp, Ramjet, Henkei Thrust-Dirge-Starscream-Thundercracker-Ramjet-Skywarp, and Gentei Ghost Starscream. And a whopping 4 each of Generations Thrust and Dirge.

I'm getting these KO figures for display(in Ghost SS's case) and to act as place holders (in the Rainmakers/Thundercracker's case). When Hasbro releases Thundercracker, I'll buy a shitload. Seriously. While they drag their feet, however, this KO Thundercracker will do nicely.

Rated X wrote:

funklizard wrote:

Scaleface wrote:Yes, these are "replica" knockoffs. Unlike most knockoffs, which are obviously not official product, these try to look like the original, even have fake packaging.

I'm told there are SMALL differences. Different color inside the cockpit on the jets, blurry printing on the bottom of the box. It's REALLY CLOSE, but if you compare 2 side by side, it's possible to tell.

Not cool.

I hope that someone with the means to create a pictorial comparison of these counterfeits to known legitimate figures does so in the near future. This development is pretty unsettling for someone who recently purchased these figures on eBay (and did not pay knock-off prices).

I do not think legitimate sellers should be trafficking in these items--even when noting they are knock-offs. Once they're out there, it's just too easy for them to be resold as the real thing. I'd like to think that TakaraTomy would take some action in cases like this; unfortunately, I imagine there's very little they can do as it's probably very difficult to track down the actual counterfeiters.

I gotta disagree with you buddy. Whats not cool is the people who made the decision to let the Henkei Thundercracker become a victim of inflation and greed. No matter what politics or business stratagies were behind the decision, alot of people were denied a chance to own a classic mainstream G1 character. This is a chance to spread the love and give collectors of all incomes a chance to enjoy this figure.

I think you misunderstand where I'm coming from. The problem I have is with the potential for these counterfeits to be sold as the real thing. The packaging goes so far as to misappropriate the TakaraTomy logo.

I have no problem with a cheaper alternative existing. I have no problem with the cheaper alternative being of good quality. What I have a problem with is trying to fool people into thinking that they're getting the real thing—and it looks like these cross that line.

(Notably, the KO that Goemon points out does not misappropriate the TakaraTomy logo and I don't have the same problem with it.)

And to be clear, I'm not accusing KO Toys of trying to fool people. They've clearly and accurately labelled these items on their site. But it is certainly my impression that the producer of these items is trying to fool people. And it seems all too easy for it to fall into the hands of sellers who want to participate in the deception as well as those who are deceived themselves.

I too bought the Henkei Thundercracker and Skywarp for $100 bucks each. But Im not complaining that sombody almost exactly duplicated my figure. I applaud it. Sometimes patience is a virtue. The people who held out are getting rewarded for their patience. But the people like me and you who "had to have it" learned a valueble lesson about patience. If I had known about these guys being available in November, I wouldnt have bought the Henkeis back in June at Botcon. I could care less about a little indent in the shoulder. In reality the figure is going to sit on a display shelf and look cool. I could have had the figures and saved $150 to use for something else. Wish I had known, but life goes on.

Suppose for a minute that you do care about these details and you were purchasing these online today. Or a few months from now when these counterfeits have had plenty of time to circulate. Would the existence of these counterfeits give you pause and make you wonder if you were actually getting what was advertised?

84forever wrote:Sizzle had something to do with this review, huh? Did you PM Mike from KO TOYS several times for his input before ordering? We know how you like to do all this research on a toy before you make a purchase. How you have to find out if a TOY can actually be played with as a TOY before you buy.

This is a guy who believes it's wrong to assume a toy can be actually played with.

This is a guy who spreads Mike from KO TOYS lies like it's gospel, despite the fact that Mike has ripped off many, many, people on this site and others.

Take this review with a grain of salt.

I didn't buy this from Mike. I bought it off Taobao before KOToys ever stocked it.

Seriously, you need to get over trying to extort KOToys for more toys. Mike gave you your money back for your Rainmakers that you decided to take apart and that you broke, because apparently you figure there's no difference between a toy and a display piece. You got your money back. You are out NOTHING. Get over it.

KO Toys is NOT the manufacturer of the KO Henkei TC, SW or Ghost SS. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly who manufactures these. KOToys and chimungmung are not making these; they are merely retailing them.

Ignore 84forever. He's a jerkoff from TFW2005 who is pissed because he paid $100 for KOToys Rainmakers, got them, took them apart and broke them, GOT HIS MONEY REFUNDED WITHOUT RETURNING THE ITEMS and is mad because KOToys will not give him free toys.

He got "ripped off" by getting his money refunded in full while KOToys is out a full set of Rainmakers. Yeah...really ripped off...

Hey G1Sizzle, I too was wondering about the chrome/silver part on the launchers. Is it chrome or is it silver paint? I'm just wondering how it would look in comparison to other Classics/Universe figures rather than the Henkei versions

G1Sizzle wrote:My review was meant to serve two purposes:

1. To answer the question "Are these KOs high quality or garbage?"

2. To let people know how they can determine whether or not what they have bought or are about to buy is KO.

I am in no way endorsing or condemning the practice of bootlegging. I do buy bootlegs from time to time. I almost have to, because I live in China, and the supply of legit products here is scarce. If someone chooses not to buy KOs or bootlegs, then I would think this review would be helpful to them also. And it's helpful to those who do, because they can make wise decisions about spending their money. Obviously, I already had a legit original. I bought this one as a curiosity.

I do think that these particular bootlegs bear paying special attention to them. This is the first time we're seeing high quality, if not equal quality bootlegs being made of not only modern toys, but high-priced exclusives. These are not just the G1 KOs, which have several distinctions that mark them as fake. These are near perfect duplicates of exclusives that a lot of people are going to be fooled by.

By the way, I have noticed from pictures of the KO Skywarp that the same notching differences in the shoulder and knee exist. So this TC review should also be helpful in distinguishing fake Skywarps too.

I understand where you are coming from, maybe doing just the comparisons would be better, and then doing the review separate.

0ptimus Prime wrote:Hey G1Sizzle, I too was wondering about the chrome/silver part on the launchers. Is it chrome or is it silver paint? I'm just wondering how it would look in comparison to other Classics/Universe figures rather than the Henkei versions

It's really difficult to say. It's got a chrome shine, but it's a bit duller than the Henkei version. It's not as "chromey"--for lack of a better word--as Ghost Henkei Starscream KO.

You asked how it would look with other Classics/Universe figures. Well, it's sitting in my collection of Seekers right now. (I'm up to 14 now.) It seems to blend fairly well, at least as well as Generations Thrust's chromed cockpit.

The good thing about these are for those of us who want to open some toys for display. I cringe at the thought of paying upwards of 80 bucks to tear open the package when I get home. I appreciate the review and it seems that they are so similar, it is a great deal. I went online and bought the whole seeker set (SW, TC, and Ghost SS) for 60 bucks. They will sit just fine with my opened authentic SS.