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JeffX wrote:Here's the thing. People want to watch a movie with some human involvement in it. As a Transformer fan I want to see more Transformers but I realize that they would not make a successful movie by doing that. Most of us love the original animated movie, but it didn't fare well in the theater. Nor would that same movie do well again in 2007.

But are the Cybertronians not anthropomorphic enough to be relatable? Honestly, with a good script it could have been successful with much less human involvement.

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

JeffX wrote:Here's the thing. People want to watch a movie with some human involvement in it. As a Transformer fan I want to see more Transformers but I realize that they would not make a successful movie by doing that. Most of us love the original animated movie, but it didn't fare well in the theater. Nor would that same movie do well again in 2007.

But are the Cybertronians not anthropomorphic enough to be relatable? Honestly, with a good script it could have been successful with much less human involvement.

And you think all that CG would be cheap?

Master Renegade wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:Well get over it. Because the majority of the people like the movies.

No, because in my experience, the majority is usually wrong.

No, they just have an opinion different to yours. That doesn't make them wrong, nor does it make your opinion wrong.

Master Renegade wrote:If that's what you're reading into my comments, then you either need to brush up on your reading skills and look again, or see if your defective brain is under warranty and able to be replaced. I never said nor implied anything about morality.

Un-necessary comment. I've already asked people in this thread to keep it civil because i'm sick and tired of this same old "discussion" degenerating into personal insults.

Master Renegade wrote:

OptiMagnus wrote:So, are you saying that I should go beat myself up for being a fan of worthless piles of s**t, then go yelling to my family and friends that they're fans of worthless s**t and should be ashamed of themsleves and that people have negative impressions of them because they told them they like the Transformers movies? So basically, if I tell someone I'm a Transformers fan, they'll think: "Oh my, he likes those incredibly bad movies. He must have bad moral values."

If that's what you're reading into my comments, then you either need to brush up on your reading skills and look again, or see if your defective brain is under warranty and able to be replaced. I never said nor implied anything about morality.

What I said, and what I meant, are EXACTLY what the words themselves say. Nothing more, nothing less.

You imply that since these movies are bad, they define the franchise now and define what I enjoy as a Transformers fan, which you say is a bad thing. You say it's a franchise you're ashamed of now because you think people define you as a fan of these movies, which according to you, are bad, and all people who aren't "fans" think they're bad.
What I'm asking YOU is do you honestly think people will define me (and other TF fans) as a fan of incredibly bad worthless s**t because of these movies, and do you think I should be ashamed of myself for enjoying them? (The morality thing was just an exaggeration, I apologise.)
And yeah, the warranty expired on my defective brain. I called Brain Mart but they're out of the model I need.

OptiMagnus wrote:You imply that since these movies are bad, they define the franchise now and define what I enjoy as a Transformers fan, which you say is a bad thing. You say it's a franchise you're ashamed of now because you think people define you as a fan of these movies, which according to you, are bad, and all people who aren't "fans" think they're bad.
What I'm asking YOU is do you honestly think people will define me (and other TF fans) as a fan of incredibly bad worthless s**t because of these movies, and do you think I should be ashamed of myself for enjoying them?

To unnecessarily clarify, all anyone who's not a TF fan knows of Transformers anymore is these movies. I am ashamed to be considered a fan of Transformers now because of that. These movies would need a ton of improvement for me to consider them as simply bad, and I do not want to be associated with anything like that. Their opinion is of the movies irrelevant in that equation, only that they mistake me to be a fan of them simply because I several other incarnations of the franchise.

As for whether I believe you should be ashamed to like them: Yes, I do. I think everyone involved with them should be ashamed of making them, I think Hasbro should be ashamed of capitalizing on them, and theaters should be ashamed to show them. I think EVERYONE should be ashamed of having standards so low that they think these movies are good.

Don't, however, mistake that to mean that I expect you, or anyone else, will be ashamed. I've long ago quit expecting anyone to be ashamed of anything.

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

JeffX wrote:Here's the thing. People want to watch a movie with some human involvement in it. As a Transformer fan I want to see more Transformers but I realize that they would not make a successful movie by doing that. Most of us love the original animated movie, but it didn't fare well in the theater. Nor would that same movie do well again in 2007.

But are the Cybertronians not anthropomorphic enough to be relatable? Honestly, with a good script it could have been successful with much less human involvement.

No, because people aren't going to see them that way. They will see them as giant robots or machines which they are. And while us Transformers fans have a connection most people will not feel the same way.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

JeffX wrote:Here's the thing. People want to watch a movie with some human involvement in it. As a Transformer fan I want to see more Transformers but I realize that they would not make a successful movie by doing that. Most of us love the original animated movie, but it didn't fare well in the theater. Nor would that same movie do well again in 2007.

But are the Cybertronians not anthropomorphic enough to be relatable? Honestly, with a good script it could have been successful with much less human involvement.

And you think all that CG would be cheap?

Its still feasible. Hell, if James Cameron can make all that CG in Avatar why can't another studio do an all Transformers movie?

...Why are we still fighting? Look, these movies exist, they made Hasbro more money than in their wildest dreams, they kept making them. They weren't the best movies, but they are what they are; explosive action movies with mixed up stories. Some people like them, some people don't. Trust me when I say i've seen MUCH worse action movies. So lets all agree to hate Twilight...

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

JeffX wrote:Here's the thing. People want to watch a movie with some human involvement in it. As a Transformer fan I want to see more Transformers but I realize that they would not make a successful movie by doing that. Most of us love the original animated movie, but it didn't fare well in the theater. Nor would that same movie do well again in 2007.

But are the Cybertronians not anthropomorphic enough to be relatable? Honestly, with a good script it could have been successful with much less human involvement.

And you think all that CG would be cheap?

Its still feasible. Hell, if James Cameron can make all that CG in Avatar why can't another studio do an all Transformers movie?

It's partly due to how Spielberg operates these days as a producer. I remember either reading it in an interview or the TF1 DVD commentary where Bay recounts that Spielberg likes to limit the budget of the movies he produces to generate creativity in the directors, which is a very foolish thing to do for a movie that centers on CG robots, if you ask me.

Bay had all these ginormous ideas of transforming aircraft carriers and stuff [if I recall correctly], but the budget given by Spielberg was just not enough to realize even a fraction of his ideas.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

JeffX wrote:Here's the thing. People want to watch a movie with some human involvement in it. As a Transformer fan I want to see more Transformers but I realize that they would not make a successful movie by doing that. Most of us love the original animated movie, but it didn't fare well in the theater. Nor would that same movie do well again in 2007.

But are the Cybertronians not anthropomorphic enough to be relatable? Honestly, with a good script it could have been successful with much less human involvement.

And you think all that CG would be cheap?

Its still feasible. Hell, if James Cameron can make all that CG in Avatar why can't another studio do an all Transformers movie?

It's partly due to how Spielberg operates these days as a producer. I remember either reading it in an interview or the TF1 DVD commentary where Bay recounts that Spielberg likes to limit the budget of the movies he produces to generate creativity in the directors, which is a very foolish thing to do for a movie that centers on CG robots, if you ask me.

Bay had all these ginormous ideas of transforming aircraft carriers and stuff [if I recall correctly], but the budget given by Spielberg was just not enough to realize even a fraction of his ideas.

"Well that sounds like it sucks!"
-Ironhide (Heavy Metal Fight)

Well, I hope that I can give my opinion on here, and be respected for it. I do not dislike the movies, per se, I am a purist in most of the adaptations I see of properties I like, If you want an anal perspective, see my thoughts on Comic movies (As Im a bigger Comic fan than TF, which does NOT mean I don't know my TF)

I saw the 1986 movie when I was three, I own 3 different dvd versions of it, I own the entire G1 series on dvd, a bunch of TF toys, and pretty much feel that the 96 movie is my favorite movie of all time, since it was the first I ever saw, at 3 years old.

About the Bay films:

The obvious complaints:
Blatant sexism, lack of robots, too much emphasis on humans. And, a small detail, I hated that they didn't call Sam, Spike.

Could those movies be better, yes, and honestly, I had ALOT of venom until DOTM. But, much like the comic movies that Hollywood butchers, you have to take them as version in of of themselves, rather than a straight adaptation.

Im a G1'er, barely liking anything about the shows post G2, but I have learned to take from the shows/movies, that they are NOT g1, AND aren't trying to be. So you can enjoy them, or not. Its entirely up to you.

I refuse to care about the majority, They are NOT, the ones I converse with about properties, they to me, are just wallets spending money, allowing franchises to exist longer than the REAL fans can bankroll.

I take from the movies, what I like, and ignore the rest, even cringe at the horrid obvious bay-isms, BUT its hard to deny the coolness of seeing our childhood heroes in motion, Transforming without instructions, or our hands.

86 IS my movie, its the G1 movie, and I couldn't ask for a better one.

I've been doing some thinking looking back on what I wrote and unlike when I was angry and wrote this in my original blog before I posted it here I took an honest look at what I wrote and also took in the opinions of all others here that posted and I came to a few conclusions that I think I can learn from all this.

1. I may have been harsh on these films and some of the reasons I cited. Most notably the racist stuff. I think even I must admit I was wrong about Skids and Mudflap. Just because they have gold teeth and talk the way they do dosen't make them racially insensitive however they are still very very annoying. As for Burnie Mack's character and the hacker guy I should give them a pass since not every african american has to be a positive male role model. As for mister Bay himself ,I went too far making some of the claims I did make of his personal character. I do still think he's rather arrogant and even childish with his sense of toilet humor. But he wasn't the only one responsible for that one as the two writers mentioned by others here are responsible as well. There's a place in other movies for that I just don't feel these movies were it.

2. Again the opinions I expressed were just that. Opinions that should be taken with a grain of salt. But even I can see that I took this too seriously than I should have at the time I wrote that original blog which wasn't long after the third film came out. No my childhood memories were not raped they were simply not represented properly. I still feel Bay and Spielberg both did not care enough about the Robot characters and that both of them shouldn't have worked on this. The same could possibly be said about Don Murphy but I could be wrong.

3. There are in fact good qualities to these films such as the effects of the robots and the fights between them. However I'm still disappointed there couldn't be more of them as I still feel the robots should've had priority over the human characters. However there was still a positive impact to these films. It got people talking about the characters again. I admit I smile knowing there are little kids who think of Optimus Prime as their hero now as I did when I was a kid.

4. The reason I let this get to me so much is because over the years I was hoping for what I had as my vision for these films and with the input given from you members here I can see that my vision probably wouldn't have appealed to a main stream audiance (that vision being a cross between Gen 1 and the recent comics). And this movie wasn't made for me, it was made for the general public that don't know anything about the characters or mythos. But as I mentioned above it still had a positive impact getting those who never heard of Transformers before to look into it all and become fans themselves.

In conclusion I can admit when I'm wrong and when I went overboard. Which I did. But I am glad to get the opinions and input that everyone contributed here even if some of them sounded insulting because honestly I can't blame anyone for wanting to accuse me of trolling or being ignorant etc. And perhaps I was ignorant. Made ignorant by strong emotions over reading too much into something that quite honestly, I shouldn't have let get to me.

I still don't think the movies are that great though as I still find myself bored whenever the robots are not on screen. Because that's what I want to see. That's who's dialog I wanna hear. That's who I wanna see fighting. Unfortunatly they got the back seat cause of the people in charge. I don't hate these movies, I just don't like them. But I won't judge those who do like them, infact more power to them. But that was opinion though, nothing more.

I will apologize to the moderators on this fine site though. You guys put up with a lot of ignorance and foolishness and you strive to make the community here civil. But like I said I wanted my opinions challenged. I wanted to see what those who had different opinions thought. And if people agreed with me that's still cool. But I realize now that I was hastey in my actions and the way I went about things.

Still that's my opinions though folks and honestly I enjoyed reading what others had to say here. Well the constructive stuff anyway.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

JeffX wrote:Here's the thing. People want to watch a movie with some human involvement in it. As a Transformer fan I want to see more Transformers but I realize that they would not make a successful movie by doing that. Most of us love the original animated movie, but it didn't fare well in the theater. Nor would that same movie do well again in 2007.

But are the Cybertronians not anthropomorphic enough to be relatable? Honestly, with a good script it could have been successful with much less human involvement.

And you think all that CG would be cheap?

Its still feasible. Hell, if James Cameron can make all that CG in Avatar why can't another studio do an all Transformers movie?

It's partly due to how Spielberg operates these days as a producer. I remember either reading it in an interview or the TF1 DVD commentary where Bay recounts that Spielberg likes to limit the budget of the movies he produces to generate creativity in the directors, which is a very foolish thing to do for a movie that centers on CG robots, if you ask me.

Bay had all these ginormous ideas of transforming aircraft carriers and stuff [if I recall correctly], but the budget given by Spielberg was just not enough to realize even a fraction of his ideas.

So what? Spielberg's responsible? Damn.

SlyTF1 wrote:

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

JeffX wrote:Here's the thing. People want to watch a movie with some human involvement in it. As a Transformer fan I want to see more Transformers but I realize that they would not make a successful movie by doing that. Most of us love the original animated movie, but it didn't fare well in the theater. Nor would that same movie do well again in 2007.

But are the Cybertronians not anthropomorphic enough to be relatable? Honestly, with a good script it could have been successful with much less human involvement.

And you think all that CG would be cheap?

Its still feasible. Hell, if James Cameron can make all that CG in Avatar why can't another studio do an all Transformers movie?

It's partly due to how Spielberg operates these days as a producer. I remember either reading it in an interview or the TF1 DVD commentary where Bay recounts that Spielberg likes to limit the budget of the movies he produces to generate creativity in the directors, which is a very foolish thing to do for a movie that centers on CG robots, if you ask me.

Bay had all these ginormous ideas of transforming aircraft carriers and stuff [if I recall correctly], but the budget given by Spielberg was just not enough to realize even a fraction of his ideas.

So what? Spielberg's responsible? Damn.

From what you show here I would say yes

Atary77 wrote:I've been doing some thinking looking back on what I wrote and unlike when I was angry and wrote this in my original blog before I posted it here I took an honest look at what I wrote and also took in the opinions of all others here that posted and I came to a few conclusions that I think I can learn from all this.

1. I may have been harsh on these films and some of the reasons I cited. Most notably the racist stuff. I think even I must admit I was wrong about Skids and Mudflap. Just because they have gold teeth and talk the way they do dosen't make them racially insensitive however they are still very very annoying. As for Burnie Mack's character and the hacker guy I should give them a pass since not every african american has to be a positive male role model. As for mister Bay himself ,I went too far making some of the claims I did make of his personal character. I do still think he's rather arrogant and even childish with his sense of toilet humor. But he wasn't the only one responsible for that one as the two writers mentioned by others here are responsible as well. There's a place in other movies for that I just don't feel these movies were it.

2. Again the opinions I expressed were just that. Opinions that should be taken with a grain of salt. But even I can see that I took this too seriously than I should have at the time I wrote that original blog which wasn't long after the third film came out. No my childhood memories were not raped they were simply not represented properly. I still feel Bay and Spielberg both did not care enough about the Robot characters and that both of them shouldn't have worked on this. The same could possibly be said about Don Murphy but I could be wrong.

3. There are in fact good qualities to these films such as the effects of the robots and the fights between them. However I'm still disappointed there couldn't be more of them as I still feel the robots should've had priority over the human characters. However there was still a positive impact to these films. It got people talking about the characters again. I admit I smile knowing there are little kids who think of Optimus Prime as their hero now as I did when I was a kid.

4. The reason I let this get to me so much is because over the years I was hoping for what I had as my vision for these films and with the input given from you members here I can see that my vision probably wouldn't have appealed to a main stream audiance (that vision being a cross between Gen 1 and the recent comics). And this movie wasn't made for me, it was made for the general public that don't know anything about the characters or mythos. But as I mentioned above it still had a positive impact getting those who never heard of Transformers before to look into it all and become fans themselves.

In conclusion I can admit when I'm wrong and when I went overboard. Which I did. But I am glad to get the opinions and input that everyone contributed here even if some of them sounded insulting because honestly I can't blame anyone for wanting to accuse me of trolling or being ignorant etc. And perhaps I was ignorant. Made ignorant by strong emotions over reading too much into something that quite honestly, I shouldn't have let get to me.

I still don't think the movies are that great though as I still find myself bored whenever the robots are not on screen. Because that's what I want to see. That's who's dialog I wanna hear. That's who I wanna see fighting. Unfortunatly they got the back seat cause of the people in charge. I don't hate these movies, I just don't like them. But I won't judge those who do like them, infact more power to them. But that was opinion though, nothing more.

I will apologize to the moderators on this fine site though. You guys put up with a lot of ignorance and foolishness and you strive to make the community here civil. But like I said I wanted my opinions challenged. I wanted to see what those who had different opinions thought. And if people agreed with me that's still cool. But I realize now that I was hastey in my actions and the way I went about things.

Still that's my opinions though folks and honestly I enjoyed reading what others had to say here. Well the constructive stuff anyway.

In my view, you have full right to complain as you did. And unless you flat out insulted anyone here on the site, you don't need to apologize for your own opinions.

I assume, you, like everyone else here, has spent your lifetime, childhood, and probrably ALOT of money on this franchise, and if anything, that buys you the right to complain, whether others agree, or not, thats NOT your responsibility.

Your being true to YOU, and as a fan, you do NOT have to just sit back and say ''At least we got a TF movie''

I myself share ALOT of the views you posted, and though I am leaning towards acceptance, I STILL dislike ALOT about those films. Period, and I will NOT change that view for acceptance on a forum, but I will, however respect other views to differ mine.

My point is, you don't have to apologize for your opinion, as long as it doesn't insult members.

Thanks I appreciate the comments twiztid_soundwave. No I didn't want to insult anyone here on the site as I only wanted to state my opinion and hear what others had to say.

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:

JeffX wrote:Here's the thing. People want to watch a movie with some human involvement in it. As a Transformer fan I want to see more Transformers but I realize that they would not make a successful movie by doing that. Most of us love the original animated movie, but it didn't fare well in the theater. Nor would that same movie do well again in 2007.

But are the Cybertronians not anthropomorphic enough to be relatable? Honestly, with a good script it could have been successful with much less human involvement.

And you think all that CG would be cheap?

Its still feasible. Hell, if James Cameron can make all that CG in Avatar why can't another studio do an all Transformers movie?

Avatar is a pretty bad example because the CG doesn't even compare to that of the TF movies. Avatar looks like a Pixar movie. Bayformers does not.

Master Renegade wrote:
To unnecessarily clarify, all anyone who's not a TF fan knows of Transformers anymore is these movies. I am ashamed to be considered a fan of Transformers now because of that. These movies would need a ton of improvement for me to consider them as simply bad, and I do not want to be associated with anything like that. Their opinion is of the movies irrelevant in that equation, only that they mistake me to be a fan of them simply because I several other incarnations of the franchise.

As for whether I believe you should be ashamed to like them: Yes, I do. I think everyone involved with them should be ashamed of making them, I think Hasbro should be ashamed of capitalizing on them, and theaters should be ashamed to show them. I think EVERYONE should be ashamed of having standards so low that they think these movies are good.
Don't, however, mistake that to mean that I expect you, or anyone else, will be ashamed. I've long ago quit expecting anyone to be ashamed of anything.

I would assume a lot of parents out there are aware of Transformers pre-2007, as they prove to be popular among children. So I wouldn't necessarily generalise "non-fans" here, although a good portion of these moviegoers are newcomers, like my own family. Really, I think other people could care less even if they did automatically associate you as a fan of the movies. From your wording, in my personal opinion, you are taking this a little too seriously and are letting it affect you more than you should. They're just movies, after all. I hated War of the Worlds, but I didn't go saying people who liked it should be ashamed of it and I really didn't care afterward; because I didn't like it, so I felt no need to cling to the fact I disliked it. Really, I think you would feel a lot happier if you just threw these movies over your head and get back to what you like the most about this franchise.
The part I highlighted upset me a little especially the last sentence. Maybe it shouldn't, but it did anyway. I enjoyed nearly every second of all three films, bought the corresponding video games, and truckloads of Hasbro products from them. And now to tell me that I have extremely low standards and should be ashamed because I enjoy them, quite frankly, insults me. I thought they were very good films, because I got what I paid for and more. My father even calls them "timeless". I know I'm not a stupid person. I've never failed a subject in school, never failed a standardized test, I've never done anything under my own will that put me in the emergency room (yet), and I've never done anything that was illegal or would upset my family. And I know there are numerous intelligent people on this very website that I enjoy talking to that share my opinion on these Transformers films...people that I've learned a lot from just from what they type back to me. Do they all have low standards too? Should they all be ashamed? I'd sure hate to tell them that, because even though I've never met them in person, I respect them for how they represent themselves.
Here's the difference between you and I: Our opinions aren't identical. And they shouldn't be, or else the natural balance of the universe would be thrown. This does not automatically mean my views make me a lesser individual. I believe there is a fine line between being entertained by Michael Bay's films and being entertained by partying and getting intoxicated. I would consider that low standards, not enjoying a random film.
In reality, they're just movies. We need not belittle others because of their daring to enjoy them. Movies: That's all they are, and that's all they'll ever be. They should not define the values of an individual.

Master Renegade wrote:I think everyone involved with them should be ashamed of making them, I think Hasbro should be ashamed of capitalizing on them, and theaters should be ashamed to show them. I think EVERYONE should be ashamed of having standards so low that they think these movies are good.

Get your head out of your ass.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:I think everyone involved with them should be ashamed of making them, I think Hasbro should be ashamed of capitalizing on them, and theaters should be ashamed to show them. I think EVERYONE should be ashamed of having standards so low that they think these movies are good.

Get your head out of your ass.

A friend of mine has a pretty good term for people like that. I would get in serious trouble if I mentioned it on this site.

Treetop Maximus wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:I think everyone involved with them should be ashamed of making them, I think Hasbro should be ashamed of capitalizing on them, and theaters should be ashamed to show them. I think EVERYONE should be ashamed of having standards so low that they think these movies are good.

Get your head out of your ass.

A friend of mine has a pretty good term for people like that. I would get in serious trouble if I mentioned it on this site.

I tried not to be so blunt because I didn't want to get mod-slapped, but a comment like that deserves a response like that. I had something a lot worse in mind at first, but I settled for that.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:I think everyone involved with them should be ashamed of making them, I think Hasbro should be ashamed of capitalizing on them, and theaters should be ashamed to show them. I think EVERYONE should be ashamed of having standards so low that they think these movies are good.

Get your head out of your ass.

as much as i agree with the op, the above statement is nonsense

Yeah...to hell with MB and these crap movies, etc, etc, etc!!!

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Treetop Maximus wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Master Renegade wrote:I think everyone involved with them should be ashamed of making them, I think Hasbro should be ashamed of capitalizing on them, and theaters should be ashamed to show them. I think EVERYONE should be ashamed of having standards so low that they think these movies are good.

Get your head out of your ass.

A friend of mine has a pretty good term for people like that. I would get in serious trouble if I mentioned it on this site.

I tried not to be so blunt because I didn't want to get mod-slapped, but a comment like that deserves a response like that. I had something a lot worse in mind at first, but I settled for that.

I want to say the "F" word now...so many times.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

[DECEASED] wrote:It's not about hating Bay personally, it's about being a supporter of someone that couldn't give a damn about the fandom or the franchise some deem he has sullied. Bay has vocalized his disgust towards us, and I believe that several fans have the right to express their opinions of the product in return. .

Yes he has vocalised his disgust towards the fandom. This part is true. But one thing that everyone seems to forget is this was after his house was broken into, as well as after he recieved death threats for Optimus Prime's Peter built having flames. I don't know about you but i'd have a preety sour taste about the fandom as well.

Wow. People are pissed because Optimus has flames? I thought the flames were cool. I love Optimus in the movies, I find absolutely no fault in his design or his demeanor whatsoever. He's perfect in my opinion, considering what other franchises has/can do with the primary star, Optimus was given the golden treatment in these movies.