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how come?

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how come?

Postby Optimus Primevil » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:22 am

how is it that humans can take down giant sentient war machines from space(ok, a lot needed autobot help but blackout and devastator was pure human kills...though the devastator kill can still be debated because of the rail gun's 'origin') but can't handle home-grown war machines (terminator/power rangers RPM/the matrix/captain power and the soldiers of the future)?
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Re: how come?

Postby Red 50 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:42 am

Motto: "Never send an army to do a dinobot's job"
Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
Different continuities, probably.

EDIT: And just in case, I'll add - Blackout was killed by missiles shot by F-22's.
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Re: how come?

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:36 pm

Motto: "Feel free to die when you've had enough."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
The rail gun didn't kill Devastator the fall off the pyramid did. Every fictional movie has it's own rules and laws of physics.
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Re: how come?

Postby Screamfleet » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:53 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Evil_the_Nub wrote:The rail gun didn't kill Devastator the fall off the pyramid did. Every fictional movie has it's own rules and laws of physics.


There's nothing in the movie that indicates this.
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Re: how come?

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:05 pm

Motto: "Feel free to die when you've had enough."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
Screamfleet wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:The rail gun didn't kill Devastator the fall off the pyramid did. Every fictional movie has it's own rules and laws of physics.


There's nothing in the movie that indicates this.

That's exactly what happened, watch it again. The rail gun blew his arm off which caused him to fall off. he came apart on the way down, that's what killed him.
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Re: how come?

Postby Screamfleet » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:17 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Right, he came apart on the way down, as in he was dead during the fall, the fall didn't kill him. If the fall killed him, it would be the impact, not the weightlessness of falling.
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Re: how come?

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:28 pm

Motto: "Feel free to die when you've had enough."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
Whatever, the landing killed him not the fall. It wasn't the rail gun that killed him.
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Re: how come?

Postby Screamfleet » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:01 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Again, no indication in the film that is the case. He gets like 1/3 his body blown off and then falls and his head falls off.
It seems pretty clear to me, he's dead as he falls, and the impact has no bearing on his death.
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Re: how come?

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:22 pm

Motto: "Feel free to die when you've had enough."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
Screamfleet wrote:Again, no indication in the film that is the case. He gets like 1/3 his body blown off and then falls and his head falls off.
It seems pretty clear to me, he's dead as he falls, and the impact has no bearing on his death.

The rail gun only shot his arm off causing him to fall down the side of the pyramid. As he fell he started to break apart, THAT is what killed him. His head came off and THEN his eyes go dark indicating he was dead.
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Re: how come?

Postby Screamfleet » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:12 am

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Well you can see it that way, I see him falling apart because his dead, not the cause of death.
If simmons said a dumb line like "twas the fall that killed the beast" I'd go with you, that shows writers intent, but it just seems to me, the rail gun did him in.
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Re: how come?

Postby Shadowman » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:18 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Evil_the_Nub wrote:The rail gun only shot his arm off causing him to fall down the side of the pyramid. As he fell he started to break apart, THAT is what killed him. His head came off and THEN his eyes go dark indicating he was dead.


That actually doesn't prove your point at all. It just proves that Devastator died while falling down the pyramid, not that the fall is what killed him. It wasn't what he was doing as he died, it was the serious wounds inflicted on him moments before that. Compare, say, Optimus dying in the 1986 movie. He died as he handed off the Matrix, but that's not what killed him; it was the wounds inflicted by Megatron.

You see where I'm going with this? Just because he fell as he died doesn't mean that's what killed him.
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Re: how come?

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:29 am

Motto: "Feel free to die when you've had enough."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
Shadowman wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:The rail gun only shot his arm off causing him to fall down the side of the pyramid. As he fell he started to break apart, THAT is what killed him. His head came off and THEN his eyes go dark indicating he was dead.


That actually doesn't prove your point at all. It just proves that Devastator died while falling down the pyramid, not that the fall is what killed him. It wasn't what he was doing as he died, it was the serious wounds inflicted on him moments before that. Compare, say, Optimus dying in the 1986 movie. He died as he handed off the Matrix, but that's not what killed him; it was the wounds inflicted by Megatron.

You see where I'm going with this? Just because he fell as he died doesn't mean that's what killed him.

The rail gun only took his arm off, that alone isn't fatal. That's why I'm saying the fall killed him. He's big and that equals a lot of G force when he falls.
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Re: how come?

Postby Shadowman » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:07 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:The rail gun only shot his arm off causing him to fall down the side of the pyramid. As he fell he started to break apart, THAT is what killed him. His head came off and THEN his eyes go dark indicating he was dead.


That actually doesn't prove your point at all. It just proves that Devastator died while falling down the pyramid, not that the fall is what killed him. It wasn't what he was doing as he died, it was the serious wounds inflicted on him moments before that. Compare, say, Optimus dying in the 1986 movie. He died as he handed off the Matrix, but that's not what killed him; it was the wounds inflicted by Megatron.

You see where I'm going with this? Just because he fell as he died doesn't mean that's what killed him.

The rail gun only took his arm off, that alone isn't fatal. That's why I'm saying the fall killed him. He's big and that equals a lot of G force when he falls.


Okay, you're being really silly now. So here you go, take a look at this screenshot. As you can see, the shot took off part of his chest as well.

Also, the g-force during freefall wouldn't be nearly enough to kill him, and, in fact, would be very negligible.
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Re: how come?

Postby Red 50 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:13 am

Motto: "Never send an army to do a dinobot's job"
Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:The rail gun only shot his arm off causing him to fall down the side of the pyramid. As he fell he started to break apart, THAT is what killed him. His head came off and THEN his eyes go dark indicating he was dead.


That actually doesn't prove your point at all. It just proves that Devastator died while falling down the pyramid, not that the fall is what killed him. It wasn't what he was doing as he died, it was the serious wounds inflicted on him moments before that. Compare, say, Optimus dying in the 1986 movie. He died as he handed off the Matrix, but that's not what killed him; it was the wounds inflicted by Megatron.

You see where I'm going with this? Just because he fell as he died doesn't mean that's what killed him.

The rail gun only took his arm off, that alone isn't fatal. That's why I'm saying the fall killed him. He's big and that equals a lot of G force when he falls.


I dare to disagree. I don't think that the rail-gun shot just merely blasted his arm off. I think it damaged alot of his internal mechanisms and due to the force of it, also ripped the connections of his arm and threw him off balance, causing him to fall.

So my conclusion is that the shot by rail-gun was not fatal alone, but the whole factors caused by it proved fatal.

When you think about it, it makes sense.
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Re: how come?

Postby KingEmperor » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:18 pm

Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Didn't Devastator growl while he was falling? And if he was still alive after being shot, it wasn't the fall that killed him. It was the sudden few stops.
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Re: how come?

Postby Noideaforaname » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:27 pm

Can a gesalt form itself actually "die?" I mean, obviously certain components can be killed and thus make combination impossible, but I'd think any components not directly hit/damaged (in this case at least Hightower, Rampage, Long Haul, that other dump truck, and the bulldozer-hand) wouldn't be outright killed. And, IIRC, the individual Cons pop off in the fall/landings. Granted I have no clue how deeply the Constructicons connect with each other, both physically and mentally. Toy-esque popping apart could be causing all sorts of trauma.
And Hasbro's further confusing things by making Devastator into some abstract entity that exists within the subconscious of a whole tribe of Decepticons, as opposed to a specific construction team's experimental heavy-duty tool.
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Re: how come?

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:57 pm

Motto: "Feel free to die when you've had enough."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
Red 50 wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:The rail gun only shot his arm off causing him to fall down the side of the pyramid. As he fell he started to break apart, THAT is what killed him. His head came off and THEN his eyes go dark indicating he was dead.


That actually doesn't prove your point at all. It just proves that Devastator died while falling down the pyramid, not that the fall is what killed him. It wasn't what he was doing as he died, it was the serious wounds inflicted on him moments before that. Compare, say, Optimus dying in the 1986 movie. He died as he handed off the Matrix, but that's not what killed him; it was the wounds inflicted by Megatron.

You see where I'm going with this? Just because he fell as he died doesn't mean that's what killed him.

The rail gun only took his arm off, that alone isn't fatal. That's why I'm saying the fall killed him. He's big and that equals a lot of G force when he falls.


I dare to disagree. I don't think that the rail-gun shot just merely blasted his arm off. I think it damaged alot of his internal mechanisms and due to the force of it, also ripped the connections of his arm and threw him off balance, causing him to fall.

So my conclusion is that the shot by rail-gun was not fatal alone, but the whole factors caused by it proved fatal.

When you think about it, it makes sense.

That makes sense, it was a 1-2 punch situation.
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