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Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Transformers 3 is scheduled to be released on July 1st, 2011. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Broody Cuss » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:56 am

Finally watched DOTM last weekend and I found myself checking the clock more than once..that's how I know it was a bad movie. Now, I wasn't expecting Shakespeare up on the screen, but is a quality movie representing this popular brand so much to ask for?

I knew the live-action movies were going to be bad a soon as Bay was on board for the first one. His movies are all the same: fast paced fluff, over-the-top special effects, and enough general screen clutter to make one sick.

As a die-hard TF fan since the early '80s, I made myself like the first movie, and it was clearly the best effort of the three. DOTM was a disappointment, but not a surprise. It simply was not a good film, let alone a good TF film. :BANG_HEAD:

The only saving grace of these travesties is that they have brought a huge amount of $$$ and recognition for the brand.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:15 am

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DOTM was a quality movie. As were the rest. You just didn't like them. As long as you can accept that your dislike for the movies are just your opinion then thats fine.
You are right as they do not represent the highest marks in cinimea, but they never were supposed to. They were meant to entertain and concidering the revenue the movies made, it did just that. And while i know you and others might try the aurgument..
"Just cause it made alot of money doesn't mean its good".
Well i bet the majority that saw it (not to meantion the people who saw it multiple times in theaters) would beg to differ. But to reconise this you need to accept a few things...
1.-These movies were not made for fans. They were made for the general public. A fan oriented movie might do well straight to DVD, but not in the box office. Speaking of fans, there were so many shout outs to the fans in DOTM, but the "Fanboys" still want to bitch and complain. Its no wonder that the general public is put first.
2.-These movies were meant to entertain. Not have doctor Phil heart to heart moments.
3.-You say that all Bay's movies are nothing but fast paced over the top special affects. That's what you need in a live action TF movie. Since the 80's that's what TF has always been about. The stories have never been strong. Certainly no better than the movies.

But to be honest your opinion is set. nothing I say or anyone else is going to change your mind anyhow. I just hope this doesn't turn into yet another bay bash thread.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Slashercon » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:13 am

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5150 Cruiser wrote:DOTM was a quality movie. As were the rest. You just didn't like them. As long as you can accept that your dislike for the movies are just your opinion then thats fine.
You are right as they do not represent the highest marks in cinimea, but they never were supposed to. They were meant to entertain and concidering the revenue the movies made, it did just that. And while i know you and others might try the aurgument..
"Just cause it made alot of money doesn't mean its good".
Well i bet the majority that saw it (not to meantion the people who saw it multiple times in theaters) would beg to differ. But to reconise this you need to accept a few things...
1.-These movies were not made for fans. They were made for the general public. A fan oriented movie might do well straight to DVD, but not in the box office. Speaking of fans, there were so many shout outs to the fans in DOTM, but the "Fanboys" still want to bitch and complain. Its no wonder that the general public is put first.
2.-These movies were meant to entertain. Not have doctor Phil heart to heart moments.
3.-You say that all Bay's movies are nothing but fast paced over the top special affects. That's what you need in a live action TF movie. Since the 80's that's what TF has always been about. The stories have never been strong. Certainly no better than the movies.
But to be honest your opinion is set. nothing I say or anyone else is going to change your mind anyhow. I just hope this doesn't turn into yet another bay bash thread.



Agreed.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Broody Cuss » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:01 am

I know, we all have our own opinions...but the movies still suck. :P

Just hoping for a little more substance for the fans the next time around, and I'm sure there will be a next time.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Burn » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:30 pm

I was hoping for a little more substance from this thread, but you know ... same ol stuff we've heard a million times before.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby UltraSteel » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:35 pm

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I didn't really like them a whole lot, just for the sole fact they kinda focused more on the Humans than they really did the Bots. I mean, I'd rather see Transformers like it's shown in the Cartoons, and have very little human-plot scenes in it. But hey, I guess that's Hollywood for ya.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Autobot032 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:21 pm

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Everyone's entitled to their opinion. That being said, threads like this don't last long. I have a feeling this will not end well.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Starscreamers » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:37 pm

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I've been a TF fan since 1984 and you know what,Bay TF movies do suck. If Hollywood is going to make Transformer movies and spend millions and millions of dollars they should have made them right. Epic blockbusters with less humans, more bots, serious tone, not comedy, and the movies should be for adults and the cartons for the kids. Period!
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby MightyMagnus78 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:45 pm

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IMO the movies weren't that bad, sure they have their faults, but what were you expecting from an action movie?

I really wish some people would realize we no longer live in 1984. Mainstream Hollywood only make films to make money, therefore these films are made to appeal to a broader demographic rather than a bunch of collectors.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby dinogeist » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:36 pm

Broody Cuss wrote:Finally watched DOTM last weekend and I found myself checking the clock more than once..that's how I know it was a bad movie. Now, I wasn't expecting Shakespeare up on the screen, but is a quality movie representing this popular brand so much to ask for?

I knew the live-action movies were going to be bad a soon as Bay was on board for the first one. His movies are all the same: fast paced fluff, over-the-top special effects, and enough general screen clutter to make one sick.

As a die-hard TF fan since the early '80s, I made myself like the first movie, and it was clearly the best effort of the three. DOTM was a disappointment, but not a surprise. It simply was not a good film, let alone a good TF film. :BANG_HEAD:

The only saving grace of these travesties is that they have brought a huge amount of $$$ and recognition for the brand.


5150 Cruiser wrote:DOTM was a quality movie. As were the rest. You just didn't like them. As long as you can accept that your dislike for the movies are just your opinion then thats fine.
You are right as they do not represent the highest marks in cinimea, but they never were supposed to. They were meant to entertain and concidering the revenue the movies made, it did just that. And while i know you and others might try the aurgument..
"Just cause it made alot of money doesn't mean its good".
Well i bet the majority that saw it (not to meantion the people who saw it multiple times in theaters) would beg to differ. But to reconise this you need to accept a few things...
1.-These movies were not made for fans. They were made for the general public. A fan oriented movie might do well straight to DVD, but not in the box office. Speaking of fans, there were so many shout outs to the fans in DOTM, but the "Fanboys" still want to bitch and complain. Its no wonder that the general public is put first.
2.-These movies were meant to entertain. Not have doctor Phil heart to heart moments.
3.-You say that all Bay's movies are nothing but fast paced over the top special affects. That's what you need in a live action TF movie. Since the 80's that's what TF has always been about. The stories have never been strong. Certainly no better than the movies.

But to be honest your opinion is set. nothing I say or anyone else is going to change your mind anyhow. I just hope this doesn't turn into yet another bay bash thread.


I gonna have to agree with the original poster called "Broody Cuss".

IMHO,The three TF Live action movies were awful because as follows: (1) they were way too long,watching a awful movie for almost 3 hours is pure torture. it's only worth watching a "almost 3 hour movie" if the actual movie is awesome & not awful. (2) The dialogue in the Three TF live action movies was the worst part. it felt like most of the dialogue was outdatted & came from outdatted eras like the 1950's,1960's 1970,1980's & so forth. (3) i'm not a fan of making fun of stero types & these three live action movies had tons of this. (4) the starring core list of actors/actresses talent was the worst I've ever seen jammed into a singular movie. SADLY while the talentless amatures got the most screen time & dialogue. the actors/actresses in these three live action movies with the most talent & experience got very little screen time. (5) the whole reason why everyone went to go see these three live action TF movies was because the robots transformers. Sadly the robots got very little dialogue & most robots were lucky to speak a sentence of dialogue in the movies. seeing the humans get the most dialogue lines & scenes JUST SEEMED WRONG. (6) These three TF live action movies weren't told from a robots transformers point of view,they were told from a humans points of view. (7) Shia la bouf,IMHO,Is a horrible actor,he ruined every scene he was in,in all three live action TF movies. Shia doesn't know how to properly express the emotions he's told to express in these movies. to make matters worse Shia is a "OVER-ACTOR" Similar to jim carrey. Shia often ruins some scenes because he over-acts & gets over the top scarred,yells too much,cries too much. worse of all Shia ruined some scenes by being super conceited by acting over Macho. .
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:49 pm

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Starscreamers wrote:I've been a TF fan since 1984 and you know what,Bay TF movies do suck. If Hollywood is going to make Transformer movies and spend millions and millions of dollars they should have made them right. Epic blockbusters with less humans, more bots, serious tone, not comedy



I've been a TF fan since 1984 as well and you know what? I like Bay's movies.

Starscreamers wrote:the movies should be for adults and the cartons for the kids. Period!


One of the most selfish compments i've read on this forum. Lets just ignore the future of this franchise. And you know what's even more sad? The movies did cater to adults but the fan-dumb still complains. This is why the general public has, and will always be put first in front of fans

MightyMagnus78 wrote:IMO the movies weren't that bad, sure they have their faults, but what were you expecting from an action movie?

I really wish some people would realize we no longer live in 1984. Mainstream Hollywood only make films to make money, therefore these films are made to appeal to a broader demographic rather than a bunch of collectors.


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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:00 pm

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5150 Cruiser wrote:But to reconise this you need to accept a few things...
1.-These movies were not made for fans. They were made for the general public. A fan oriented movie might do well straight to DVD, but not in the box office. Speaking of fans, there were so many shout outs to the fans in DOTM, but the "Fanboys" still want to bitch and complain. Its no wonder that the general public is put first.


True, but the real shames is that its possible at least try to make a film that would please both the general public and the established fanbase.
2.-These movies were meant to entertain. Not have doctor Phil heart to heart moments.


true
3.-You say that all Bay's movies are nothing but fast paced over the top special affects. That's what you need in a live action TF movie. Since the 80's that's what TF has always been about. The stories have never been strong. Certainly no better than the movies.


that is not treue.

Yes, not every tf story ever told has been strong, but there have been quite a few strong tf stories.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby dinogeist » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:14 pm

5150 Cruiser wrote:
Starscreamers wrote:the movies should be for adults and the cartons for the kids. Period!


One of the most selfish compments i've read on this forum. Lets just ignore the future of this franchise. And you know what's even more sad? The movies did cater to adults but the fan-dumb still complains. This is why the general public has, and will always be put first in front of fans


I agree with "Starscreamers".

IMHO,The main reasons why the three live action TF movies were pure awful. is because Hasbro ruined them by making them "THE ALL AGES" themed movies. hasbro went the extra mile by trying to please all ages from the toddlers,then the teenagers,then the people in their middle ages,the senior citizens,the fans.

I'm sorry,you can't do one slap stick humor toddler scene then in the next scene see a scene meant for adults that shows optimus ripping off some robots face in a serious nature. then the next scene comes & their a scene meant to please teenagers by showing sam & megan kiss. then the next scene it goes back to pleasing the toddlers by showing bublebee slip on a banna & make silly crying baby noises which gets the toddlers laughing in the theathre. the the next scene viewers see a a scene meant for middle age people where sam's parents make perverted jokes. then in the next scene it's catered to the older fans where we see megatron killing optimus in a forest in a serious nature. and the scenes keep comming & the emotions keep changing. THIS IS WHY MOST OR SOME HATE/LOATE THE BEASTWARS Cartoon series due to it being a "ALL AGES" cartoon series.

Is it so much for a TF fan to ask for a TF live action movie with a serious nature like the last star trek movie was or like the last terminator movie was.

I really hate over the top slap stick toddler themed humor. and the three live action TF movies were dominated by this.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:27 pm

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Tidalwavex wrote:I agree with "Starscreamers".

IMHO,The main reasons why the three live action TF movies were pure awful. is because Hasbro ruined them by making them "THE ALL AGES" themed movies. hasbro went the extra mile by trying to please all ages from the toddlers,then the teenagers,then the people in their middle ages,the senior citizens,the fans.

I'm sorry,you can't do one slap stick humor toddler scene then in the next scene see a scene meant for adults that shows optimus ripping off some robots face in a serious nature. then the next scene comes & their a scene meant to please teenagers by showing sam & megan kiss. then the next scene it goes back to pleasing the toddlers by showing bublebee slip on a banna & make silly crying baby noises which gets the toddlers laughing in the theathre. the the next scene viewers see a a scene meant for middle age people where sam's parents make perverted jokes. then in the next scene it's catered to the older fans where we see megatron killing optimus in a forest in a serious nature. and the scenes keep comming & the emotions keep changing. THIS IS WHY MOST OR SOME HATE/LOATE THE BEASTWARS Cartoon series due to it being a "ALL AGES" cartoon series.

Is it so much for a TF fan to ask for a TF live action movie with a serious nature like the last star trek movie was or like the last terminator movie was.

I really hate over the top slap stick toddler themed humor. and the three live action TF movies were dominated by this.


"toddler themed humor"??
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Screamfleet » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:10 pm

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"toddler themed humor"??


I would assume, things like Bumblebee "leaking" on Simmons and such.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:32 pm

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Screamfleet wrote:
"toddler themed humor"??


I would assume, things like Bumblebee "leaking" on Simmons and such.

that can be called "juvenile" but not toddler themed
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Screamfleet » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:34 pm

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...you're just arguing semantics now.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:45 pm

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Screamfleet wrote:...you're just arguing semantics now.

no, I'm not.

a toddler themed joke is like "why is 6 afraid of 7???.........because 7 ate 9"

a juvenile themed joke is seeing a robot humping a girls leg.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Screamfleet » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:45 pm

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Exactly, semantics.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:47 pm

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Screamfleet wrote:Exactly, semantics.

sorry buddy, but theres a world of differences between those two types of jokes.

1 you might see on Sesame street, the other you wouldnt.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Screamfleet » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:52 pm

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Well continue being hung up on it if that's what makes you happy in life.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:56 pm

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Screamfleet wrote:Well continue being hung up on it if that's what makes you happy in life.

I wasnt the one that cited "toddler themed humor" as an issue with the Bay films..........so I'm not the one hung up on it.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:25 am

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: that is not treue.

Yes, not every tf story ever told has been strong, but there have been quite a few strong tf stories.


Fair enough. :D Their have been some bad stories in the franchise, but there have been some good examples too. Personly i think TF: Prime has some of, if not the best stories of the franchise.


Tidalwavex wrote: I agree with "Starscreamers".

IMHO,The main reasons why the three live action TF movies were pure awful. is because Hasbro ruined them by making them "THE ALL AGES" themed movies. I'm sorry,you can't do one slap stick humor toddler scene then in the next scene see a scene meant for adults that shows optimus ripping off some robots face in a serious nature.


Oh really? Cause apparently you can. And over $1,000,000,000 in revenue seems to back this up.
And how dare hasbro make this movie for all ages to enjoy. Shame on you hasbro for attempting to appeal to fans young and old and keep everyone happy. Yes, hasbro your terrible. :roll:

Tidalwavex wrote:Is it so much for a TF fan to ask for a TF live action movie with a serious nature like the last star trek movie was or like the last terminator movie was.



1.- The last ST movie was awesome, And you know why? Because it apealed to the masses. For the first time you could walk into the theater without having any prior knowledge of Star trek, and could understand everything. but Many Star Trek fans seemed to hate aspect of the movie. As a result many ST fans seemed to hate the last ST movie the same way many TF fans seem to hate Bay's movies.

2.- Terminator has always had a serious tone and was made for adults and never intended for kids. Transformers on the other hand, is based on a childrens toy and has always in some shape of form always had kids in mind.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby Autobot032 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:39 am

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5150 Cruiser wrote:1.- The last ST movie was awesome, And you know why? Because it apealed to the masses. For the first time you could walk into the theater without having any prior knowledge of Star trek, and could understand everything. but Many Star Trek fans seemed to hate aspect of the movie. As a result many ST fans seemed to hate the last ST movie the same way many TF fans seem to hate Bay's movies.


I have to agree with this. The fans require coddling and praise and being placed on a pedestal for being "true" fans for 25+ years. They can't see past their own nose.

As you said, the Star Trek reboot appealed to the masses and made it easy for everyone to learn the basics of. You're absolutely correct.

The original story is 40+ years old and there are only so many places you can go with it.
When the original series was canceled, it took a decade to bring it to the big screen. When those revitalized the series, The Next Generation came along and broke records. Great! Right? Well...then the spinoffs of a spinoff came along.

I never could get into Deep Space 9. I tried, I really did, but it bored me to tears. Some thought it was fantastic, that's fine.

I couldn't get into Voyager, not at first and not at all during it's 7 year run. (I have since gone back and watched the entire series and loved it.)

I wasn't able to get to Enterprise when it was on the air, plus it went back and was out of sorts with the time line. Bugged me, at first. Found it on DVD/Netflix and fell in love with it...aside from season 3. The Expanse arc was just horrible overall...

So...we had the original, we had the future, we had an outpost with martial law and spiritualism, we had a female captain and we went back to how it all began. Plus we had 10 movies. Star Trek tried. TRIED. Still crashed and burned. Only way to save it was to go back to where it truly started (Kirk & Spock) and instead of trampling all over everything we know and love, they branched it off into a new timeline and continuity, keeping both the original and the new. The fans couldn't process it, the general audience did and it opened new doors and made way for the biggest Star Trek movie to date. Both critically and financially.

TransFormers has been around for 27 years. We had SEVEN series, three of which were the G1 continuity and three which had their own. We had one box office disaster of a movie. (Check up on the original film, critically and financially a failure.) We had a lull with no toys, no shows and it looked hopeless. They banked on Jurassic Park and tried Beast Wars. It worked. Beast Machines? Not so much. RID? Quite successful, but went back to basics in a lot of ways. A/E/C? Eh, show was a mixed bag, toys as well, but Cybertron showed real promise on both fronts. Then...it was all gone. No shows, no toys except a filler line. (Of course, we all knew they were working on a movie behind the scenes of everything else, but for the time being, all we had was the last of Cybertron and the filler of Classics to tide us over.)

The movie was a reboot, plain and simple. It borrowed elements of what came before, but didn't trample all over it. (And if the rest of you can put away your rose colored glasses for a moment, you'd see that.) It opened to a wide audience, not just us and it turned out to be a success.

ROTF came along, tried to borrow some of G1's ludicrous ideas and bombed with some of the fans and all of the critics, but made a tremendous amount of money and wooed even more new fans.

DOTM came along and went serious, but had a human side without too many humans (get your torches and pitchforks ready, bring it.), it looked fantastic, it was fun and powerful and handled both well. Made record breaking money, a rather sizable portion of critics liked it, wooed some fans that weren't so sure and brought in even more new fans.

You cannot live in the past forever. After a while of the same old, same old, you're going to hit a dead end. Unlike Star Trek, which crashed head on into that wall.... TransFormers did not. We could've come close, but smarter minds prevailed and they made it work. Even if you don't like the movies, you can't deny what positives it did give us. More money for Classics/Universe/Generations development, Human Alliance figures, TransFormers Animated and TransFormers Prime. Even if you don't like the toys or the animation style, one thing that can't be denied is the storylines. Animated and Prime both had/have BRILLIANT writing and edgy stories that push the boundaries of a kid's cartoon, while being accessible to everyone.

If the fandom gets their way, we're screwed. We're doomed to repeat history and will have learned nothing. If Hasbro gets their way, everyone will have something. Little kids have Rescue Bots, tweens/teens/adults have Prime and the movies. And everyone has access to G1/BW/BM.

The best way to put it is this: I'll let the words of Albert Einstein say more than I could.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein


The fandom is doing just that.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Albert Einstein


Hasbro and Hollywood knew this and used it to their advantage.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein


We're intelligent, but we tend to be foolish. We think WE can make it better. Hasbro took the courage, used the genius of others and moved in an opposite direction.
NOTE: Realize that I am not a perfect Christian, nor do I profess to be. I apologize if anyone's ever offended by me, I'm not perfect. Don't hold my posts and opinions against other Christians.
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Re: Huge TF fan for life, but the Bay movies suck

Postby dinogeist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:42 am

Autobot032 wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:1.- The last ST movie was awesome, And you know why? Because it apealed to the masses. For the first time you could walk into the theater without having any prior knowledge of Star trek, and could understand everything. but Many Star Trek fans seemed to hate aspect of the movie. As a result many ST fans seemed to hate the last ST movie the same way many TF fans seem to hate Bay's movies.


I have to agree with this. The fans require coddling and praise and being placed on a pedestal for being "true" fans for 25+ years. They can't see past their own nose.

As you said, the Star Trek reboot appealed to the masses and made it easy for everyone to learn the basics of. You're absolutely correct.

The original story is 40+ years old and there are only so many places you can go with it.
When the original series was canceled, it took a decade to bring it to the big screen. When those revitalized the series, The Next Generation came along and broke records. Great! Right? Well...then the spinoffs of a spinoff came along.

I never could get into Deep Space 9. I tried, I really did, but it bored me to tears. Some thought it was fantastic, that's fine.

I couldn't get into Voyager, not at first and not at all during it's 7 year run. (I have since gone back and watched the entire series and loved it.)

I wasn't able to get to Enterprise when it was on the air, plus it went back and was out of sorts with the time line. Bugged me, at first. Found it on DVD/Netflix and fell in love with it...aside from season 3. The Expanse arc was just horrible overall...

So...we had the original, we had the future, we had an outpost with martial law and spiritualism, we had a female captain and we went back to how it all began. Plus we had 10 movies. Star Trek tried. TRIED. Still crashed and burned. Only way to save it was to go back to where it truly started (Kirk & Spock) and instead of trampling all over everything we know and love, they branched it off into a new timeline and continuity, keeping both the original and the new. The fans couldn't process it, the general audience did and it opened new doors and made way for the biggest Star Trek movie to date. Both critically and financially.

TransFormers has been around for 27 years. We had SEVEN series, three of which were the G1 continuity and three which had their own. We had one box office disaster of a movie. (Check up on the original film, critically and financially a failure.) We had a lull with no toys, no shows and it looked hopeless. They banked on Jurassic Park and tried Beast Wars. It worked. Beast Machines? Not so much. RID? Quite successful, but went back to basics in a lot of ways. A/E/C? Eh, show was a mixed bag, toys as well, but Cybertron showed real promise on both fronts. Then...it was all gone. No shows, no toys except a filler line. (Of course, we all knew they were working on a movie behind the scenes of everything else, but for the time being, all we had was the last of Cybertron and the filler of Classics to tide us over.)

The movie was a reboot, plain and simple. It borrowed elements of what came before, but didn't trample all over it. (And if the rest of you can put away your rose colored glasses for a moment, you'd see that.) It opened to a wide audience, not just us and it turned out to be a success.

ROTF came along, tried to borrow some of G1's ludicrous ideas and bombed with some of the fans and all of the critics, but made a tremendous amount of money and wooed even more new fans.

DOTM came along and went serious, but had a human side without too many humans (get your torches and pitchforks ready, bring it.), it looked fantastic, it was fun and powerful and handled both well. Made record breaking money, a rather sizable portion of critics liked it, wooed some fans that weren't so sure and brought in even more new fans.

You cannot live in the past forever. After a while of the same old, same old, you're going to hit a dead end. Unlike Star Trek, which crashed head on into that wall.... TransFormers did not. We could've come close, but smarter minds prevailed and they made it work. Even if you don't like the movies, you can't deny what positives it did give us. More money for Classics/Universe/Generations development, Human Alliance figures, TransFormers Animated and TransFormers Prime. Even if you don't like the toys or the animation style, one thing that can't be denied is the storylines. Animated and Prime both had/have BRILLIANT writing and edgy stories that push the boundaries of a kid's cartoon, while being accessible to everyone.

If the fandom gets their way, we're screwed. We're doomed to repeat history and will have learned nothing. If Hasbro gets their way, everyone will have something. Little kids have Rescue Bots, tweens/teens/adults have Prime and the movies. And everyone has access to G1/BW/BM.

The best way to put it is this: I'll let the words of Albert Einstein say more than I could.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein


The fandom is doing just that.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Albert Einstein


Hasbro and Hollywood knew this and used it to their advantage.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
Albert Einstein


We're intelligent, but we tend to be foolish. We think WE can make it better. Hasbro took the courage, used the genius of others and moved in an opposite direction.


please lets get the facts correct.

1-The movie review critics gave all three live action TF movies two thumbs down & they hated all 3 movies. most old school top movie reviewers hate action movies & they hardly praise them nor like them.

2- TF fans didn't care about the three live action movies being a reboot of G-1. As were use to this because we get reboots all the time. fans wanted a decent reboot not a crap-tacular reboot that was the movie-verse.

3-TF fans main complaint about the three live action TF movies. was the lack of story. awful stories & the worst dialogue spoken in a movie ever.

4-TF Fans didn't care for the acting talent chosen for the three live action TF movies. those who had starring roles & got the most dialogue were the most talentless & in-experienced actors/actresses of the crew.

4a-the human cast for each movie was too large & cluttered. it felt like the humans cast were tripping over each other due to the large cast. with such a large human cast,they stole dialogue words & scenes from the robots. movie theathre attendees went to see a movie starring the robots,not having movies starring the humans with special guest appeances with the robots as side show guest.

5-TF Fans wanted the three live action TF movies to star the robots not the humans. having robots who barely got to speak a few words in each movie upset the fans.

6-each three live action TF movie was almost 3 hours each. this is too much time to invest in a movie that is awful. only movies that have great story telling & a cast of people with talent that is superp is worth investing 3 hours in a movie.

7-micheal bay kept re-writting the scipts to add in his stereo type & bathroom humor.

8-shia la beof was a horrible choice for the lead actor. he was the most talentless & in-experienced of the crew. he ruined all the scenes he was in.

9-micheal bay was a bad choice for the director. as the man never had movies with decent story telling. james cameron or ron howard would have been better choices for the director.

10-micheal bay's answer to bad dialogue & very little story was to mask all this with huge gigantic explosions.

11-most adults didn't enjoy the "all ages" theme about the three live action TF movies.having all that potty humor,stereo type humor,tiny robot humor,bumblbee humor,the parents crude perverted humor,was their to make the toddlers laugh. this all hurt the movies. is it too much to ask to have serious mature TF movies that don't get ruined by all that toddler humor scenes.

12-those involved in the three live action TF movies. Went the disney network & nick network route. by portraying most of the adult people as having toddler mentalities. sam & his friends were man-childs in mentality,they didn't possess any adult oriented minds/souls. agent simmons acted like a eccentric toddler,another man child. fans want people to act their age level,not act like toddlers so the toddlers can relate to them.

examples of disney/nick adults who are around the ages of 17 or over 18 acting with toddler mentalities are as follows: the entire Icarly cast,entire wizards of waverly cast,hanna montana cast.

sam never reached manhood in his mentality. his role was to act like a man-child in all three live action TF movies. so the toddlers watching these movies could laugh at & mock the sam character,for being more immature then they were.
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