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Rodimus Prime wrote:If it wasn't for Megatron's resurrection, his damage in the final battle, and the reference made to Sam being in Egypt, and a few minor details that can be glossed over, you could watch the first film followed by DotM and not miss a beat.

You're missing the parts were:

a) The Transformers films are more self contained stories than the Star Wars films.
b) Megatron being resurrected, Sam being in Egypt and mentioning being on the FBI's wanted list, the sudden appearance of the Matrix, Megatron's damaged state. These things are not "minor details" and would make no sense if you didn't watch the previous film. DotM was not made with the intent to remove RotF from canon.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it wasn't for Megatron's resurrection, his damage in the final battle, and the reference made to Sam being in Egypt, and a few minor details that can be glossed over, you could watch the first film followed by DotM and not miss a beat.

You're missing the parts were:

a) The Transformers films are more self contained stories than the Star Wars films.
b) Megatron being resurrected, Sam being in Egypt and mentioning being on the FBI's wanted list, the sudden appearance of the Matrix, Megatron's damaged state. These things are not "minor details" and would make no sense if you didn't watch the previous film. DotM was not made with the intent to remove RotF from canon.

And you're missing the part where I stated if it wasn't for those details and a few minor details, RoTF could be done without. Why the hell are you being so combative, anyway? I thought we were having a civil discussion. I'm also well aware that DotM wasn't meant to remove RoTF from Bayverse. I'm just saying that aside from the above mentioned details, there's nothing to tie RoTF to DotM. Calm down.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it wasn't for Megatron's resurrection, his damage in the final battle, and the reference made to Sam being in Egypt, and a few minor details that can be glossed over, you could watch the first film followed by DotM and not miss a beat.

You're missing the parts were:

a) The Transformers films are more self contained stories than the Star Wars films.
b) Megatron being resurrected, Sam being in Egypt and mentioning being on the FBI's wanted list, the sudden appearance of the Matrix, Megatron's damaged state. These things are not "minor details" and would make no sense if you didn't watch the previous film. DotM was not made with the intent to remove RotF from canon.

And you're missing the part where I stated if it wasn't for those details and a few minor details, RoTF could be done without. Why the hell are you being so combative, anyway? I thought we were having a civil discussion. I'm also well aware that DotM wasn't meant to remove RoTF from Bayverse. I'm just saying that aside from the above mentioned details, there's nothing to tie RoTF to DotM. Calm down.

Considering I'm neither upset, angry, and just making a point I would ask the same of you.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it wasn't for Megatron's resurrection, his damage in the final battle, and the reference made to Sam being in Egypt, and a few minor details that can be glossed over, you could watch the first film followed by DotM and not miss a beat.

You're missing the parts were:

a) The Transformers films are more self contained stories than the Star Wars films.
b) Megatron being resurrected, Sam being in Egypt and mentioning being on the FBI's wanted list, the sudden appearance of the Matrix, Megatron's damaged state. These things are not "minor details" and would make no sense if you didn't watch the previous film. DotM was not made with the intent to remove RotF from canon.

And you're missing the part where I stated if it wasn't for those details and a few minor details, RoTF could be done without. Why the hell are you being so combative, anyway? I thought we were having a civil discussion. I'm also well aware that DotM wasn't meant to remove RoTF from Bayverse. I'm just saying that aside from the above mentioned details, there's nothing to tie RoTF to DotM. Calm down.

Considering I'm neither upset, angry, and just making a point I would ask the same of you.

I'm calm. Just pointing your misunderstanding of my post. No biggie.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it wasn't for Megatron's resurrection, his damage in the final battle, and the reference made to Sam being in Egypt, and a few minor details that can be glossed over, you could watch the first film followed by DotM and not miss a beat.

You're missing the parts were:

a) The Transformers films are more self contained stories than the Star Wars films.
b) Megatron being resurrected, Sam being in Egypt and mentioning being on the FBI's wanted list, the sudden appearance of the Matrix, Megatron's damaged state. These things are not "minor details" and would make no sense if you didn't watch the previous film. DotM was not made with the intent to remove RotF from canon.

And you're missing the part where I stated if it wasn't for those details and a few minor details, RoTF could be done without. Why the hell are you being so combative, anyway? I thought we were having a civil discussion. I'm also well aware that DotM wasn't meant to remove RoTF from Bayverse. I'm just saying that aside from the above mentioned details, there's nothing to tie RoTF to DotM. Calm down.

Considering I'm neither upset, angry, and just making a point I would ask the same of you.

I'm calm. Just pointing your misunderstanding of my post. No biggie.

Ah, ok. Text sucks at transmitting intent.

I just wish the twins and jolt could have been in DOTM. Having sentinel kill them off would have been more emotionally impacting. That, and all you twin haters would rejoice.
I LIKED THE TWINS!!!

BeastProwl wrote:I just wish the twins and jolt could have been in DOTM. Having sentinel kill them off would have been more emotionally impacting. That, and all you twin haters would rejoice.
I LIKED THE TWINS!!!

Honestly this was a complaint for me in DotM. Keeping them in, even if only to die, would have been better than leaving them out. Though a better route would have been to develop the characters but of course we're talking about the worst screenplay writers in Hollywood at the moment.

Still would have liked more of a battle between Optimus and The Fallen, but Bay was under pressure to finish up filming. Executives have a good way of ruining the potential of the films they bankroll.

Capt.Failure wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:I just wish the twins and jolt could have been in DOTM. Having sentinel kill them off would have been more emotionally impacting. That, and all you twin haters would rejoice.
I LIKED THE TWINS!!!

Honestly this was a complaint for me in DotM. Keeping them in, even if only to die, would have been better than leaving them out.

Agreed.

And you know what? I didn't mind the Twins either, even with the blatant stereotype. I'm not saying I approve of it, just saying the same as you do, I'd rather have them than not.

"Hey! That hurt!"
"It supposed to hurt! It's an asskicking!"

Though a better route would have been to develop the characters but of course we're talking about the worst screenplay writers in Hollywood at the moment.

Also agreed. Orci and Kurtzman sucked. Even though they didn't have anything to do with DotM, IIRC. Ehren Kruger? Not perfect, but much better.

Still would have liked more of a battle between Optimus and The Fallen, but Bay was under pressure to finish up filming. Executives have a good way of ruining the potential of the films they bankroll.

Yeah. Remember, their #1 priority is the bottom line of the studio. However, I thought the final battle in RoTF was long enough. Yeah, The Fallen could have gotten a little more offense in, but considering that Optimus was 'roided up, it's not implausible (by TF standards) that the fight wasn't longer. I just wish they would have given Prime better shit-talking lines than "Give me your face!" *cringe* At least he ran his mouth really good in the forest fight.

I wonder, if Prime still had Jetfire at the end of DotM, would he have fared better against Sentinel?

Rodimus Prime wrote:I wonder, if Prime still had Jetfire at the end of DotM, would he have fared better against Sentinel?

I'm pretty sure Prime's trailer's "flight tech" was developed from Jetfire's parts.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I wonder, if Prime still had Jetfire at the end of DotM, would he have fared better against Sentinel?

I'm pretty sure Prime's trailer's "flight tech" was developed from Jetfire's parts.

Yeah, that's a likely scenario. Even though The Fallen destroyed some of it in their fight. But it seems that with Jetfire's parts he had added strength, whereas the flight tech was just that, flight tech. Nothing else extra.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I wonder, if Prime still had Jetfire at the end of DotM, would he have fared better against Sentinel?

I'm pretty sure Prime's trailer's "flight tech" was developed from Jetfire's parts.

Yeah, that's a likely scenario. Even though The Fallen destroyed some of it in their fight. But it seems that with Jetfire's parts he had added strength, whereas the flight tech was just that, flight tech. Nothing else extra.

Since he never had it prior I'm 99% certain the flight tech and trailer were developed from Jetfire's parts. I made up some headcanon where the flight tech, when applied, puts extra pressure on Optimus' spark since it's like running two Cybertronians off one power source effectively limiting it's use. Hence why he had to discard it for his battle with Sentinel. Alot of "super modes" in mecha anime have limited use like that and to be frank his priority to kill the Driller with it was a good tactical move.

Yeah, makes sense. But, the original question is still to be answered. If he had the flight tech available to him at the end, would he have been able to disarm or even kill Sentinel? It seemed like nothing he threw at Sentinel had any effect, and Sentinel was even able to come back with a (literally) crippling offense.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah, makes sense. But, the original question is still to be answered. If he had the flight tech available to him at the end, would he have been able to disarm or even kill Sentinel? It seemed like nothing he threw at Sentinel had any effect, and Sentinel was even able to come back with a (literally) crippling offense.

Well being a Prime in the Bayverse means you have a level of strength above other Cybertronians it seems. Sentinel was "closer" to the original Primes via him being of an older generation, so he was probably more powerful as just his base form with no need for upgrades. Prime needed parts from a Seeker, who are implied to be above standard Cybertronians in strength, to come close to him.

Megaton meanwhile was probably just strong as he was in the first film through being the "underdog who works for it," since it's said in book/comic side stories that he's not a Prime, just ridiculously strong for a standard Cybertronian. It took him dyeing and being repaired with inferior parts to weaken him to a point where Optimus could fight him one on one.

Yeah kind of went off on a tangent there, but eh.

I think RoTF is a great film,this just show how people's opinions can be different.
The only thing i remnber not liking was Wheelie'leg humping.
Jetfire in that film is full of win.
I dont think the twins are offensive.


And i love all Star Wars movies.

TulioDude wrote:I think RoTF is a great film,this just show how people's opinions can be different.
The only thing i remnber not liking was Wheelie'leg humping.
Jetfire in that film is full of win.
I dont think the twins are offensive.


And i love all Star Wars movies.

I agree with this post.

This thread made me curious, and I decided to dust off my own copy of ROTF and watch it.

Still found the jokes lame, but strangely everything else seems much easier to take in. Jetfire is acceptable now, and I didn't really notice the parents all that much.

The fight scenes featuring Prime in ROTF are IMO best of the trilogy. Tops DOTM in that respect.

All in all, I think it had more to do with my expectations of the sequel after the awe of the 2007 movie. I expected different things from ROTF [darker, more serious] than what I got, which was probably why the dorky jokes annoyed me as much as they did the first time around. Now that I've accepted ROTF for what it is [a fun summer blockbuster for all age groups], it's become a far better movie for me.

The only things that still sort of annoy me is the "almighty bombing raid" finale and the sight of a paltry few tanks and artillery taking down an army of Decepticons. DOTM wins hands down in portraying more believable strategies in taking down giant robots--snipe their eyes, blow up their legs, and kill them while they're on the ground.

Sure, the haphazard editing and jokes are still there, but I can calmly ignore them and enjoy OP kicking ass on screen.

P.S., I've always liked Wheelie and The Twins. I mean, if non African American people can pick up Ebonics and talk like rap singers, why can't a couple of alien robots?

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:This thread made me curious, and I decided to dust off my own copy of ROTF and watch it.

Still found the jokes lame, but strangely everything else seems much easier to take in. Jetfire is acceptable now, and I didn't really notice the parents all that much.

The fight scenes featuring Prime in ROTF are IMO best of the trilogy. Tops DOTM in that respect.

All in all, I think it had more to do with my expectations of the sequel after the awe of the 2007 movie. I expected different things from ROTF [darker, more serious] than what I got, which was probably why the dorky jokes annoyed me as much as they did the first time around. Now that I've accepted ROTF for what it is [a fun summer blockbuster for all age groups], it's become a far better movie for me.

The only things that still sort of annoy me is the "almighty bombing raid" finale and the sight of a paltry few tanks and artillery taking down an army of Decepticons. DOTM wins hands down in portraying more believable strategies in taking down giant robots--snipe their eyes, blow up their legs, and kill them while they're on the ground.

Sure, the haphazard editing and jokes are still there, but I can calmly ignore them and enjoy OP kicking ass on screen.

P.S., I've always liked Wheelie and The Twins. I mean, if non African American people can pick up Ebonics and talk like rap singers, why can't a couple of alien robots?

Yep. I agree on the twins-thing. Why the hell not? And that brawl in the woods... Made me crap my pants the first time I saw it. That's the most impact Prime had on me since G1.

SlyTF1 wrote:

TulioDude wrote:I think RoTF is a great film,this just show how people's opinions can be different.
The only thing i remnber not liking was Wheelie'leg humping.
Jetfire in that film is full of win.
I dont think the twins are offensive.


And i love all Star Wars movies.

I agree with this post.

I too also share the same opinion on the quoted post.

Honestly what I think it truly boils down to is how YOU liked the film. I liked it overall,just alot points bugged me. But I'm not gonna start another Great Cybertronian War over who liked what movie and why,it's just ridiculous.

MasterSoundBlaster wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

TulioDude wrote:I think RoTF is a great film,this just show how people's opinions can be different.
The only thing i remnber not liking was Wheelie'leg humping.
Jetfire in that film is full of win.
I dont think the twins are offensive.


And i love all Star Wars movies.

I agree with this post.

I too also share the same opinion on the quoted post.

Honestly what I think it truly boils down to is how YOU liked the film. I liked it overall,just alot points bugged me. But I'm not gonna start another Great Cybertronian War over who liked what movie and why,it's just ridiculous.

The problem is today that individual likes and opinions need to be justified for some reason. It's not enough you like something, you need to prove why it's worth liking. That or you get a passive aggressive response such as, "Well if you enjoy having bad taste that's perfectly alright."

Shows how we've devolved as a society if we can't discuss our personal preferences without fear of being insulted.

Capt.Failure wrote:

MasterSoundBlaster wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

TulioDude wrote:I think RoTF is a great film,this just show how people's opinions can be different.
The only thing i remnber not liking was Wheelie'leg humping.
Jetfire in that film is full of win.
I dont think the twins are offensive.


And i love all Star Wars movies.

I agree with this post.

I too also share the same opinion on the quoted post.

Honestly what I think it truly boils down to is how YOU liked the film. I liked it overall,just alot points bugged me. But I'm not gonna start another Great Cybertronian War over who liked what movie and why,it's just ridiculous.

The problem is today that individual likes and opinions need to be justified for some reason. It's not enough you like something, you need to prove why it's worth liking. That or you get a passive aggressive response such as, "Well if you enjoy having bad taste that's perfectly alright."

Shows how we've devolved as a society if we can't discuss our personal preferences without fear of being insulted.

Well we are discussing peacifully here,sp its okay.

TulioDude wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

MasterSoundBlaster wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

TulioDude wrote:I think RoTF is a great film,this just show how people's opinions can be different.
The only thing i remnber not liking was Wheelie'leg humping.
Jetfire in that film is full of win.
I dont think the twins are offensive.


And i love all Star Wars movies.

I agree with this post.

I too also share the same opinion on the quoted post.

Honestly what I think it truly boils down to is how YOU liked the film. I liked it overall,just alot points bugged me. But I'm not gonna start another Great Cybertronian War over who liked what movie and why,it's just ridiculous.

The problem is today that individual likes and opinions need to be justified for some reason. It's not enough you like something, you need to prove why it's worth liking. That or you get a passive aggressive response such as, "Well if you enjoy having bad taste that's perfectly alright."

Shows how we've devolved as a society if we can't discuss our personal preferences without fear of being insulted.

Well we are discussing peacifully here,sp its okay.

I know. It's refreshing.

Capt.Failure wrote:

TulioDude wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

MasterSoundBlaster wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

TulioDude wrote:I think RoTF is a great film,this just show how people's opinions can be different.
The only thing i remnber not liking was Wheelie'leg humping.
Jetfire in that film is full of win.
I dont think the twins are offensive.


And i love all Star Wars movies.

I agree with this post.

I too also share the same opinion on the quoted post.

Honestly what I think it truly boils down to is how YOU liked the film. I liked it overall,just alot points bugged me. But I'm not gonna start another Great Cybertronian War over who liked what movie and why,it's just ridiculous.

The problem is today that individual likes and opinions need to be justified for some reason. It's not enough you like something, you need to prove why it's worth liking. That or you get a passive aggressive response such as, "Well if you enjoy having bad taste that's perfectly alright."

Shows how we've devolved as a society if we can't discuss our personal preferences without fear of being insulted.

Well we are discussing peacifully here,sp its okay.

I know. It's refreshing.

It's nuts!

What gets me about the amount of crap that ROTF gets is that it had everything everyone asked for: More robots, more action, more adventure, a more complicated story, more personalities in the robots, and ROTF had all of that. The TFs in ROTF had more character than they did in the first movie and DOTM combined. People asked, Bay listened, and they still complained.

SlyTF1 wrote:The TFs in ROTF had more character than they did in the first movie and DOTM combined.

I disagree. There was nothing in RoTF that furthered the personalities of the bots that already appeared in the first film, except for Optimus Prime and Megatron. Bumblebee was the same, as was Starscream. Ironhide and Ratchet were given even less to do, the Twins did have personality, but they were new, as was The Fallen and Jetfire (and he was the biggest waste of screen time in the trilogy, save for his death). These were the characters that were prominent. I'm not even mentioning Sideswipe, Sideways, Grindor, and Devastator. Soundwave and Ravage were relevant for about 5 or 6 minutes. Oh, and Wheelie. I liked him in both sequels.

In DotM, Sentinel was a much better main villain than The Fallen or Megatron were in RoTF. Starscream was the same sniveling little bitch and died as such, and Ratchet was also terribly misused. They actually got some emotional use out of Ironhide, even if they had to kill him to do it. As for all the others in DotM? It was a crime how misused Shockwave was. Soundwave and Laserbeak were actually a little developed as opposed to Soundwave and Ravage. Megatron? He was the only one whose character diminished from RoTF, but even that can be attributed to his gradual decline physically and mentally throughout the trilogy, which was the right thing for his character arc.

And Bay cannot and should not be blamed for the lack of character development. All that is on the heads of Orci and Kurtzman. Hacks. That's why I'm happy with Ehren Kruger coming back for TF4. He did a good job with DotM, even with the development deficiencies of Shockwave and Ratchet, among others.