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Biodegradable toys might suck for us, but the vast majority of toys are of course for kids, and the vast majority of those toys will likely be thrown away in just a few short years. Sure we all have a handful of cherished childhood toys with us still... but can you remember ALL the others you broke, lost, never dug back out of the sandbox, got swept away in the tide? All the dumb little cereal prizes, the fads you hoarded and forgot within a week, all the crap included in goodie bags and disposable decorations, the awful Chuck-E-Cheese prizes you got because you just had to get something, the junk your parents bought just to shut you up in the 4-hour car ride? Doesn't matter if it ends up in the ocean or not, that's an awful lot of "permanent" garbage that'll still be sitting there long after we (and the next several centuries worth of decedents) are all dead and gone.
And that's not even counting all the packaging, much less all the other everyday plastic we use.

While we might be responsible enough with our collection, it'll undoubtedly outlive us (and whoever it might be resold/passed down to) and eventually get trashed. "Only 2" might be extreme, but I think it's on the right track.

And as a final note, it does seem like Transformers are moving towards being all-plastic. Electronic lights and sounds are no longer standard in the Leader class, and wheels rarely if ever use pins. And maybe they're using less pins and screws overall? Seems like it, but I'd need to do a proper comparison...





We're in a conundrum. We want things to last, but we've made them last longer than they'd ever need to... and we by and large don't care.

I've never thrown a toy away. Leave me alone.

I still want to keep the discussion going and want to reply to each and every one of you. Just a lot to go through atm.

But until I reply, I just finished writing this article about this topic , especially after this discussion.

"9 Simple Ideas For Green Toy Collecting"
http://www.budmaloney.com/2015/04/9-simple-ideas-for-green-toy-collecting.html

And upon the recommendation of a petition, I made a petition in the hopes of reaching Hasbro on the likes of removing paper instructions from most toys and making them digital.
As many of you have expressed it's the packaging.
So instructions can easily be distributed via a code from inside the toy.

Petition can be found here
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/digital-instruction-manuals-for-toys

As always would love to hear your feedback and ways to improve the list and best practices for collecting culture.

Some points are good but I do disagree on a few. The main one being to encourage repaints. The most energy consuming part is the production of a toy and the same energy is used producing a repaint, a remold and an all new mold. Also, since many only collect one toy per mold, having more repaints would mean more toys left on the shelves, not sold, and maybe bought back by the distributor and eventually discarded, adding way more waste.

Great article! Even if I don't agree on every point, it is well written.

One point I might counter: Instructions. I am a bit torn here, as personally, I almost never use them. (Heck, I didn't even need 'em for Masterpiece Megatron! And he was one often sited as being complex and difficult to transform without 'em.) So on those rare occasions when I do need a reference, it would certainly not be much of an inconvenience.

But I could foresee cases of parents buying toys for their younger kids, opening it up, giving the kid the toy, tossing the box without bothering to read where it says, "Instructions online at Hasbro.com!" and just giving the toy to their kid who is then left with no idea what to do with it. Or worse... What if you have a parent who does read that, but the family lives in an area with no internet access? I know it is rare, but such people exist. Are they supposed to stop at the library to use the public computers and printers every time they buy their kids a new toy?

Yes, us hardcore collectors may not need the instructions as much. But for the main Transformers market, children, I think it would be better to keep everything needed to enjoy the toy available with the toy as sold, including instructions.

Here's a suggestion, though. I happened to see Windblade's instructions sitting on a table nearby. (Guess I hadn't tossed 'em in the recycling yet.) And you know what I didn't see on them? Something saying something to the effect of, "Printed on recycled paper." Maybe we should encourage Hasbro to do that? (And then, of course, re-recycle them, ourselves, once we're done with them!)

william-james88 wrote:Some points are good but I do disagree on a few. The main one being to encourage repaints. The most energy consuming part is the production of a toy and the same energy is used producing a repaint, a remold and an all new mold. Also, since many only collect one toy per mold, having more repaints would mean more toys left on the shelves, not sold, and maybe bought back by the distributor and eventually discarded, adding way more waste.

I know that, like you say, there are those out there that only collect one toy per mold... But me, I love a good repaint/remold when it makes sense! Like two "Classics" style toys of characters who shared a mold in the G1 days:




Or more modern toys that Hasbro cleverly designed to be able to serve double duty with a few new parts and/or a slight tweak to the transformation:




Repaints aren't always good. The mold needs to make sense for the character. (The upcoming Legends Warpath, for example, doesn't do it for me because it doesn't look like Warpath without the chest cannon!) But when it works... Well, then those "one toy per mold" collectors are missing out! And it is great when it works well, as we get more characters then we would have, otherwise!

Still... I do agree that telling Hasbro, "More repaints, please!" could send the wrong message... least we end up with more like that aforementioned upcoming Legends Warpath!

Tomy's Tf packaging (especially the ones before Legends) does indicate it's been using recycled paper products. The MP box though don't show it. Btw, I prefer the old styrofoam cases of yesteryear as the gave the fig more protection. The recent plastic blister cases don't hold a candle to it. Styrofoam may not be "friendly" but for us collectors, well, we don't throw it away or burn them. Those acts by itself is "eco" friendly.

Interesting article, though I agree with some points. Yots, I totally agree with you; I do like repaints, if they remold a few parts (such as the examples that you brought up).

Since much of the focus was on packaging, I did a video on 8 ideas to utilize deluxe Tf packaging around the house.

On to the replies.

Optimum Supreme wrote:I've never thrown a toy away. Leave me alone.

I wish everyone was like you and didn't throw away. Sadly many toys are thrown out and slip through the early warning systems. You will be left alone ^_^.

Noideaforaname wrote:Biodegradable toys might suck for us, but the vast majority of toys are of course for kids, and the vast majority of those toys will likely be thrown away in just a few short years. Sure we all have a handful of cherished childhood toys with us still... but can you remember ALL the others you broke, lost, never dug back out of the sandbox, got swept away in the tide? All the dumb little cereal prizes, the fads you hoarded and forgot within a week, all the crap included in goodie bags and disposable decorations, the awful Chuck-E-Cheese prizes you got because you just had to get something, the junk your parents bought just to shut you up in the 4-hour car ride? Doesn't matter if it ends up in the ocean or not, that's an awful lot of "permanent" garbage that'll still be sitting there long after we (and the next several centuries worth of decedents) are all dead and gone.
And that's not even counting all the packaging, much less all the other everyday plastic we use.

While we might be responsible enough with our collection, it'll undoubtedly outlive us (and whoever it might be resold/passed down to) and eventually get trashed. "Only 2" might be extreme, but I think it's on the right track.

And as a final note, it does seem like Transformers are moving towards being all-plastic. Electronic lights and sounds are no longer standard in the Leader class, and wheels rarely if ever use pins. And maybe they're using less pins and screws overall? Seems like it, but I'd need to do a proper comparison...


We're in a conundrum. We want things to last, but we've made them last longer than they'd ever need to... and we by and large don't care.

Couldn't have said it better. The collectors aren't the problem. It's just the shear volume of toys. The majority of kids will break their toys and toss them till they get new stuff , Frozen or Avengers out.

william-james88 wrote:Some points are good but I do disagree on a few. The main one being to encourage repaints. The most energy consuming part is the production of a toy and the same energy is used producing a repaint, a remold and an all new mold. Also, since many only collect one toy per mold, having more repaints would mean more toys left on the shelves, not sold, and maybe bought back by the distributor and eventually discarded, adding way more waste.

Excellent point, I haven't thought of the shelf warmers. Repaints are everywhere, no one wants Nightbeat!
Although it could be company secrets, but what if regulation pushes Hasbro to release the energy expenditure on each figure. I was thinking of doing a Green index, where we count how many components are packaged with the entire figure. Slowly we'd build a fan database of "greener" figures.

Yotsuyasan wrote:Great article! Even if I don't agree on every point, it is well written.

One point I might counter: Instructions. I am a bit torn here, as personally, I almost never use them. (Heck, I didn't even need 'em for Masterpiece Megatron! And he was one often sited as being complex and difficult to transform without 'em.) So on those rare occasions when I do need a reference, it would certainly not be much of an inconvenience.

But I could foresee cases of parents buying toys for their younger kids, opening it up, giving the kid the toy, tossing the box without bothering to read where it says, "Instructions online at Hasbro.com!" and just giving the toy to their kid who is then left with no idea what to do with it. Or worse... What if you have a parent who does read that, but the family lives in an area with no internet access? I know it is rare, but such people exist. Are they supposed to stop at the library to use the public computers and printers every time they buy their kids a new toy?
Here's a suggestion, though. I happened to see Windblade's instructions sitting on a table nearby. (Guess I hadn't tossed 'em in the recycling yet.) And you know what I didn't see on them? Something saying something to the effect of, "Printed on recycled paper." Maybe we should encourage Hasbro to do that? (And then, of course, re-recycle them, ourselves, once we're done with them!)
Still... I do agree that telling Hasbro, "More repaints, please!" could send the wrong message... least we end up with more like that aforementioned upcoming Legends Warpath!

Thank you. I checked my generations Scoop figure also, not recycled paper. The instructions have some gloss to them. But they have large void space, could easily be a smaller size. I can't follow the transformation without instructions, I always mistransform lol.
Imagine if the price for going green is all Legends Warpath figures.
I'll add putting recyclable instructions to the list.

fenrir72 wrote:Tomy's Tf packaging (especially the ones before Legends) does indicate it's been using recycled paper products. The MP box though don't show it. Btw, I prefer the old styrofoam cases of yesteryear as the gave the fig more protection. The recent plastic blister cases don't hold a candle to it. Styrofoam may not be "friendly" but for us collectors, well, we don't throw it away or burn them. Those acts by itself is "eco" friendly.

Wow looks like Tomy's regulations are harder on them. I miss the Styrofoam packaging too. Sadly Styrofoam is the longest non degradable. We don't throw them away , but as Noideaforaname mentioned, these packages outlive us, so eventually they'll be thrown out. I honestly don't know what is best way to throwout styrofoam. Depends if your country has programs. They're good insulators I guess, and alot of people use them as terrain for miniwar gaming.

Moosey wrote:Interesting article, though I agree with some points. Yots, I totally agree with you; I do like repaints, if they remold a few parts (such as the examples that you brought up).

I hated repaints at first just because they weren't show accurate. But now for some odd reason I love them. They offer a completely new perspective on a geometry. It's amazing what a change of color can do to a figure or anything else for that matter. Go Nemesis Prime.

william-james88 wrote:Minimizing the packaging is key. Minimizing the collection doesnt make as much sense because as long as you are buying, you are encouraging the market (which induces all the environmental costs). And Hasbro deals in an economy of scale (as in multitude of one product) inorder to stay afloat. So they will either produce a bunch to satisfy the demand or not produce any at all. If someone is serious about not wanting their collecting habits to impact the environment, then there are no half measures. You would have to stop buying period, from here on out, and concentrate on recuperating what has been done before so that it does not end up in the thrash.

If you are not willing to stop collecting new figures, then the better alternative is to concentrate on the packaging. Just collecting one or two doesnt cut it in an economy of scale.

Much truth to what you say. Needs to be a big sacrifice. Probably most of us here can't part ways with their collection. Me included. But I agree, after being involved in this green toy collecting, if one wants to remain a collector, the packaging is the starting point.
I wonder if Hasbro should start changing its packaging to online retailers. So say BBTS gets the figures packed in brown box with no art. While walmart gets the blister card and art. If it brings the price lower I personally don't mind not having the box art. It is a luxury but one I can do without.

fenrir72 wrote:
Yup. Quite the irony about Canada who I expected better. And they still haven't taken back their toxic refuse btw.Japan too has been known to dump their MEDICAL Waste for "recycling" a known euphemism to 3rd world countries.Would you blame my pessimism?

"Green" as in "green joke".......a bit of naughty.... . I used to be an idealist before bud. Really. But once you grow old and ornery, you'll find out idealism doesn't always translate to reality and pragmmatism.

DM hit it right on the money where we don't actually waste our hobby collection. 2ndary market sales prove it. We treasure them and not carelessly throw them away.

totally wouldn't blame you for pessimism, I'd be pissed.

Moosey wrote: I just don't think the vast vast vast majority of collectors (including myself) would like to do your 2-figure rotating collection as you said. Part of collecting for me is setting up battles on my shelf, and I feel that you can't do that with just 2 figures or a virtual 3D model.

yeah the 2 figure rule seems very harsh ,How can I have an ammonite army build? The 2 figure rule needs to be reevaluated and finding a balance.

Mykltron wrote:The only way to save the planet is by reducing its human population. I'm NOT saying we have a cull, but we need to allow euthanasia, assisted dying, suicide and abortions while reducing childbirth and encouraging adoption. It's mainly the first world that's destroying the earth because we're breeding ourselves into extinction and that's why I vowed never to have my own children.

You can flame me for my harsh opinion if you wish, it won't change my opinion.

Thanks for sharing the link. lol good thing you edited it. You definitely won't be flamed. That is valid the carrying capacity of Earth I believe has already been exceeded. Maybe we should build an Ark and launch it into space. And harvest the suns of another world

Yotsuyasan wrote:You say you love Generations and Masterpiece. How would you feel if those lines went away because only a few of each figure were being bought and traded amongst the hardcore collectors? And these are two toylines that don't see the same characters being hashed to death.

I would feel sad for sure. But would I feel sadder about losing a toy line, or a coast line? That's why it's a tough decision. Luckily there aren't too many calling for reducing collecting so the lines will be here for a while

Yotsuyasan wrote:If you want to improve the ecological footprint of Transformers, asking collectors to stop buying them is not the answer. We are the one market that won't throw our toys away. Not to say there isn't the rare exception, but for the most part if we get tired of a toy, we will either just put it into storage or sell it to make money for the new ones we wish to get, letting the toy move onto a new home with a new collector that will treasure it.

The two things that should, perhaps, be concentrated on are as follows:

1. Packaging, as mentioned in my original post.

2. I saw someone else propose producing the toys using biodegradable plastics. This is something I could get behind, although I do have concerns I would want addressed first. This could be great for those toys that do end up in landfills. But if I plan on keeping my hypothetical biodegradable Titan Class Trypticon, will the materials it is produced from have the same long term survivability as it would if it was constructed from traditional plastics? Having it break down in the ground is fine. But having it break down on my shelf? It better be able to be just as strong five, ten, or twenty years later as it was the day I bought it.

Also, how will biodegradable plastics help with metal screws or springs? Or will these hypothetical biodegradable figures be held together only by glues, and not able to have more complex joints requiring the tension a spring provides in some cases?

To sum up: I really think the toys themselves are not an area to concentrate on. Collectors aren't going to throw them out, and your message will have no impact on the kiddies. Making the packaging more eco-friendly I could get behind. Beyond that, perhaps try to increase recycling efforts in general (not just focused on Transformers) so that when things do get thrown out, including Transformers, the materials they are made from can be partially or completely repurposed rather than discarded to litter up our planet.

You have raised amazing points Yotsuyasan and hit the nail, you and Dead Metal. My intention in addressing collectors was to get a response like yours, a well thought out reasoning. It’s true, we are the only market who don’t throw out our stuff. My concern was sustainability even when people do hang on to their things. But definitely having a scenario where kiddie toys are the only available stuff like say Angry Birds right now, it is the true enemy. The mass produced disposable throwaway community is to blame, not the caring collectors that want to keep the Styrofoam even. So I guess if we get even a small win in packaging that would be a huge achievement. As Dead Metal mentioned biodegradable toys could be a technical challenge. So what do you think of a hybrid digital and collectible world? Like Amiibos?

Dead Metal wrote:And just having two figures in total isn't really collecting, what you're suggesting here is that we just give up our hobby, not adapting it improve the world. Collecting literally means amassing a large amount of something, which is why toy collectors have loads of toys, stamp collectors have loads of stamps, car collectors have loads of cars, etc. ...

This franchise wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for toys, because if people don't support it by buying toys it wouldn't go on, there would be no reason for it to go on. Sure you could say people could just enjoy the fiction, only that that is something Hasbro is unable to actually do. Look at Aligned, that was supposed to be Hasbro's foray into establishing a long lasting coherent Transformers canon with continuity, they failed at that.

Did it really fail? I’m just asking cause I don’t know. I guess the cancellation of Universe game and burial of FOC’s timeline. But aren’t they continuing it with RID. Or have they crossed over to IDW’s universe as the new aligned it seems.

Dead Metal wrote:Collecting isn't just buying figures and then selling them off again, what do you get from that? Having seen and appreciated them once? You can get the same from just looking at pictures online.

It you really want to go green and want to make your start with Transformers, stop buying and supporting them altogether. No more Generations, no more Masterpiece. The more people do that, the less Hasbro and Takara will produce, the less materials and energy gets used to make them, until finally Transformers goes away.

This is literally the wrong way of doing it, go green by reducing your trash, your energy consumption, this sharing TF figures will just make everything worse.

Plus the "well, you could do it locally", not everyone of us lives in the US or even near other collectors. I am literally the only Transformers collector in a sane driving distance. Transformers aren't a big deal here, not even kids seem to care because toy stores barely even sell any anymore.

And again, because this is literally the crux of the whole thing, that plastic vortex has nothing to do with our collections, well unless you find the packaging that Americans and Asians discarded there, because our toys are our collecting and we hang on to them dearly. In fact MISB and MIB collectors could very well be seen as the most green of us all, because they actually keep the trash part of the hobby as well, since they don't throw the packaging away.

How did you even get to the conclusion that our collections harm the environment by being out collections? Do you regularly just dump parts of your collection? Are you like "Oh well, MP01 was nice, but now I have MP10, which I think is better, sorry MP01 the dumb/ocean it is then".

The only way our collections harm the environment is during the production process and the shipping process, which you plan on increasing.

But do it if you want to, just know that in the end my collection will be greener simply by me keeping it, while yours causes extra emissions whenever you ship or drive it. It's kinda like trying to prevent violence in school by paying gangs to beat up the kids that try to go to school.


The only way we can actually make collecting more eco friendly is by tackling the packaging. Hasbro and Takara would need to use materials that are more easily recyclable, plus cheap to produce and people would need to actually recycle them. But that's out of our power, so the only way we as individuals can have a green collection is by making now trash, by going MISB/MIB. While adapting our lives to actually be greener (don't let the electric devices run all day and night, be more responsible in the way we handle our trash, buy as much locally produced products as possible, etc...)

Hmmm…you’ve raised excellent points also. I’ll respond to what I can, many of them I have no counter point to them cause they’re very logical imo.
Although it did seem like I suggested it, but I didn’t intend to conclude that collectors are contributing to environmental degradation. We’re kinda like the man on the inside, we’re around plastic and simply by associating with plastic in such a consumer way is why I chose to address the collecting community. Though Fenrir I belive was saying he prides on being non MISB collector, but then you go and raise a great point. MISB are making the trash part of the hobby. So there is no trash for the MISB. Since recycling cardboard also consumes energy and it doesn’t recover all. My intention was to start the dialogue, so unfamiliar new and old collectors could weigh the fact that they actively participate in something that can be harmful if not done correctly. Sort of like a public service announcement in a way .
It’s clear the shipping, or time share would put load on the distribution and as you said the proactive way of doing it is through the production. Reactive is trying to minimize trash…ala MISB collecting or utilizing the box (like video I linked above).

So here is a question, if we look at the packaging, would you or other collectors be interested in a wiki or a green number index that ranks figures based on packaging? Or even on how much energy was consumed? I’m thinking that like how in the US we have nutritional information on food packaging, we could apply that same concept to Tfs?
Here is an example, I counted the components in 4 figures (Gen. Scoop, Skywarp, Armada SS, and Minicon assault team). I only rounded up components based on packaging. So in case of Minicon assault team, their combined weapon was consider 1 component as opposed to 3 since it was packaged. Just gives me a better reference. Other components were the ties/twisties, cardboard, instruction manual etc.
The resulting green index # (or package index?)
Scoop : 13
Minicon Assault Team : 13
Skywarp: 11
Armada Starscream: 11

From this alone, which is pretty general we can see Skywarp and SS have the least components.
With time we end up with a database for all figures and start to have more complex number like multiplying the components with their weight and density and so on.
Of course Hasbro has these numbers and they could release them publicly and save a lot of time, but just in case they don’t, an in-house project like this could eventually be added to the figure’s packaging. The “green number”. Maybe even provide an incentive for Hasbro to advertise it as they did their steps. Hasbro: “ Our new Generations like has 50% less green number than last year’s”
On a side note, the iphone 6 packaging has no Tampagraph and it’s just a tiny white box. Same with Galaxy S4 box, it was made from recyclable cardboard. So we are getting improvements elsewhere and I really hope we see it happen.

TLDR: lots of amendments to Green toy collecting. 2 figure rule may be scrapped. Packaging, packaging, packaging is where it's at.

This isn't related to toy collecting but I recently saw on a business network on cable a new development in "degradable" electronics technology. Seems like cell phone circuit boards are now being developed to "decay" after a few years.

Good and bad. The good......supposedly not harmful and will be absorbed (?) into the ecosystem. The bad? What if it's the only unit you got and works perfectly for you? Then it starts degrading before you know it.

I wish, as a consumer, we get the choice to purchase an "biodegradable" unit or a non-biodegradable one.

Again, I sincerely laud you for your idealism. If we are only so responsible and not irresponsible throw away our junk/nonjunk then maybe, this world will be a better place to live in. Perhaps some day, when we can have ( mind you this might even be doable) a matter transforming device like that in Star Trek (people shouldn't make fun because the Star Trek communicators were the inspiration of present day cellphones), we can recycle and do away with junk.

From us to you our future children, as parents, we can start instilling a sense of collective reponsibility and inculcate the mind set of not irresponsible throwing trash in our reservoirs/body of water or leaving trash in the campsite or leaving camp without putting off the fires first.

Also, stop wasting food, as agricultural and livestock also puts a big drain into the ecosystem.

It all begins within.Heck, if you recall episode #1 of MTMTE pilot, the Transformers got into this mess and involved humanity in their war because both sides exhausted all their resources on war. It maybe a lame kiddy premise now, but a bit apocalyptic if you ask me.

I'm all for going green if there are some G1 collectors willing to share their figures with me,

LegendaryAntiHero wrote:I'm all for going green if there are some G1 collectors willing to share their figures with me,

Good luck with that.

want to reduce your footprint here are a few tips:
cut up the packaging both plastic and cardboard(unless youre a misb collector) and place them in the appropriate bins
don't waste money, gas, and more paper/cardboard shipping stuff. instead find a kid in need and give them away. wanting to save the environment is admirable but it will take sacrifice.
don't army build.. I remember when wreck gar and scourge were released people were buying a ton of them (I still have 6 scourges, and 10 yes 10 movie breachers cause he's awesome!) never again