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I want headmaster and target blind packs

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I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby ausbot » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:10 pm

Motto: "Don't want none, don't start none!"
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I've always heard that Hasbro will not do headmasters again because parents complain that if they lose the heads the toy is useless, well if they did a series of target masters and headmasters in line with several series of blind pack target masters and headmasters, not only could you easily replace lost heads and guns but create new characters as well. In my perfect would they would also come with new stickers to change up the figures as well. Lets even add plain transector bodies they you could customize.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:10 pm

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ausbot wrote:I've always heard that Hasbro will not do headmasters again because parents complain that if they lose the heads the toy is useless,
Also because some of the folks at Hasbro (like former member Aaron Archer) felt that the concept of a TF having to remove its head to transform was kinda stupid in and of itself.

ausbot wrote:well if they did a series of target masters and headmasters in line with several series of blind pack target masters and headmasters, not only could you easily replace lost heads and guns but create new characters as well. In my perfect would they would also come with new stickers to change up the figures as well. Lets even add plain transector bodies they you could customize.
Then kids who lost the "right" head buying the blind-packs to get back the one they lost would complain about getting the "wrong" head for their figures.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby xyl360 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:46 pm

I really like this idea. I also like the idea of customizable bodies using "shell" parts to form bot bits and vehicle modes around the transector base.

Sabrblade makes a good point about the "right" head, but what if there is no "right" head, just a series of random/blindpack heads and each body comes with a blindpack (or 3) so the kid can start off with a few different/random options? Heck, the head chosen could even determine if the figure is an Autobot or a Decepticon. If they used a gimmick similar to the one in G1 used for measuring tech specs, but instead used to display either an Autobot or Decepticon symbol you'd have something really neat.

And yeah, blindpack (or any individually sold) Targetmasters would be excellent :).
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:53 pm

Motto: "FOR THE EARTH!!!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
xyl360 wrote:but what if there is no "right" head, just a series of random/blindpack heads and each body comes with a blindpack (or 3) so the kid can start off with a few different/random options? Heck, the head chosen could even determine if the figure is an Autobot or a Decepticon. If they used a gimmick similar to the one in G1 used for measuring tech specs, but instead used to display either an Autobot or Decepticon symbol you'd have something really neat.
That might be a bit confusing if the set character body had no set character head.

Plus, how would they market the bodies if if didn't matter which head they used? If the body toys came with any heads, kids would likely associate the head that the toys came with as their "right" heads. Or, to avoid that, would the body toys just come without heads? If so, I can't see that doing very well since the idea would basically be, "Hey kids, here's a new TF toy for ya! Oh, whoops, he has no head. If you want him to have a head, you'll have to buy it separately. And if you want a specific one, you'll have to look harder cuz we're blindpacking it among many other heads that you don't want for that body. Have fun!" :P
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby ausbot » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:34 am

Motto: "Don't want none, don't start none!"
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But thats the point of blind packs to keep you coming back, its been very successful for lego! And the idea of transectors is any head can control a body, thats what makes it fun.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Burn » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:45 am

xyl360 wrote:I really like this idea. I also like the idea of customizable bodies using "shell" parts to form bot bits and vehicle modes around the transector base.


I liked the idea of "shell" parts for Alternators so you could modify the alt modes.

Original idea ... couldn't care about Headmasters, it was a silly concept, but blind packed Targetmasters (aka modern day mini-cons)? Then yeah, I'd like to see that.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Mykltron » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:13 am

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Why would anybody WANT blind packs? You know there would be one mold that takes up 90% of the places.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:17 am

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ausbot wrote:But thats the point of blind packs to keep you coming back, its been very successful for lego! And the idea of transectors is any head can control a body, thats what makes it fun.
But the way Lego does it is that the main sets still come with a version of the pieces that they blindpack, rather than omitting that piece entirely to leave it only obtainable through blindpacks.

For Transformers to do the same, the main body would have to have its own head included in the set, which kids would naturally latch onto the idea of the head that comes with the body being the body's definitive head. And if they lose that head, they'd likely want to get it back good and quick, which the blindpacks would make difficult and tedious for them to do.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Valandar » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:28 am

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I utterly despise the concept of "blind packs", myself...
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby GuyIncognito » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:39 am

I'm with Sabrblade; his points are all valid. I think it's a bad idea.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Noideaforaname » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:56 am

I don't suppose there'd be a way to give the "main" Transformer his own head, which could then flip down and hide away, revealing a spot for a Headmaster to plug in? Looking at some of the Prime figures, many of them could 'store' their heads in their chests. Perhaps, going off that design style, there could be a small plate with a hole or two that stores on/in the back, with the Headmaster having the pegs.
Hmm, probably would result in blockier chests and "fake" chests...


Targetmasters would probably be a better choice for blindbags. You don't really need any to complete a figure, but you'd still have plenty reason to buy a whole bunch.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:03 am

Motto: "FOR THE EARTH!!!"
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Noideaforaname wrote:I don't suppose there'd be a way to give the "main" Transformer his own head, which could then flip down and hide away, revealing a spot for a Headmaster to plug in?
Like how it was with Armada Sideways and Energon Omega Supreme? That could work, yes, but then that raises the question of why there would be a need for Headmasters at all if they already have their own natural heads built into their bodies.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby ScottyP » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:26 pm

Weapon: Battle Blades
Blind packs - no.

Customization concept - Yes.

Targetmasters - Yes.

Microns - Yes.

One thing that hasn't been embraced fully by the Transformers brand, ever, is customization. Sorry Constructbots, you're too far on the extreme and too bionicle looking to count.

You could have a base robot that has a pretty much set alt mode: Car, Fire Truck, Jet, Bulldozer, whatever. Then, it comes with one regular, detachable head, and one plain-boring weapon. From there, oh man, time to customize.

Buy a pack with a new head that you think would go better. Pick up some Targetmasters. Grab some minicons/microns that augment the base mold, could be gimmick activation or even for real augmentation, for instance, the "Super Armor Minicon Team" can transform into a set of shoulder pads and a chest plate that increases your Transformers armor. Heck, even do differently colored things for the alt mode like spoilers, or custom sticker sheets - all kinds of cool opportunity.

But instead we have Constructbots.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby GuyIncognito » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:04 pm

I'd prefer they drop ALL the gimmicks and just make good figures.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Cyber Bishop » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:56 pm

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Blind packs - no
Headmasters - yes
I have always been a huge HM fan so sue me.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby njb902 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:20 pm

Cyber Bishop wrote:Blind packs - no
Headmasters - yes
I have always been a huge HM fan so sue me.


Okay....... But on what grounds :lol:

How would the headmaster gimmick work? To make a even remotely cool little robot the bots they attach to would have to be large. Not that that's bad, I'm just curious. I'd be all over true targetmasters though, especially if they were sized to have BFG weapon modes.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby xyl360 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:24 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Noideaforaname wrote:I don't suppose there'd be a way to give the "main" Transformer his own head, which could then flip down and hide away, revealing a spot for a Headmaster to plug in?
Like how it was with Armada Sideways and Energon Omega Supreme? That could work, yes, but then that raises the question of why there would be a need for Headmasters at all if they already have their own natural heads built into their bodies.

What if they are sold as "Protoforms" and they have a built in protoform head which is somewhat generic, no faction out of the box, then you get blindpack heads which customize their looks and determine their allegiance?
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Cyber Bishop » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:24 pm

Motto: "Ker-Klick... Choom!"
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njb902 wrote:
Cyber Bishop wrote:Blind packs - no
Headmasters - yes
I have always been a huge HM fan so sue me.


Okay....... But on what grounds :lol:

How would the headmaster gimmick work? To make a even remotely cool little robot the bots they attach to would have to be large. Not that that's bad, I'm just curious. I'd be all over true targetmasters though, especially if they were sized to have BFG weapon modes.



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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby xyl360 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:14 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Noideaforaname wrote:I don't suppose there'd be a way to give the "main" Transformer his own head, which could then flip down and hide away, revealing a spot for a Headmaster to plug in?
Like how it was with Armada Sideways and Energon Omega Supreme? That could work, yes, but then that raises the question of why there would be a need for Headmasters at all if they already have their own natural heads built into their bodies.

What if they are sold as "Protoforms" and they have a built in protoform head which is somewhat generic, no faction out of the box, then you get blindpack heads which customize their looks and determine their allegiance?
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby ausbot » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:31 pm

Motto: "Don't want none, don't start none!"
Weapon: Battle Blades
I love the idea of customizing figures as well and constructbots really have not worked for me.
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby chaosmage42 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:37 pm

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i have come up with the solution to this long ago

what you do is make the basic figure have a head as part of the figure the way armada side ways did but you put the new head over it or push it down -what ever works and they are just additional heads they can use with different abilities -put the stat meter in the chest -also as for customizing make a set of shell formers all of them have the same basic transform but you can get new shells arms and legs or bodies and head and mix and match
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:01 pm

Motto: "FOR THE EARTH!!!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
I do, however, believe the concept of blindpacked -master figures could work well for Targetmasters since, unlike heads, handheld weaponry isn't a vital component of a figure and serves the purpose of both what it is and what blindpacked -master figures would be: Accessories.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is very much like Takara's old Micron Booster packs and Hasbro's current Kreon Micro-Changer blindpacks (only with those just being little guys in and of themselves rather than little partners/accessories for bigger toys). ;)

xyl360 wrote:What if they are sold as "Protoforms" and they have a built in protoform head which is somewhat generic, no faction out of the box, then you get blindpack heads which customize their looks and determine their allegiance?
Not sure how marketable "nobodies" would be by themselves since those toys would be the main focus of the line while the blindpacks would just serve as accessories.

chaosmage42 wrote:i have come up with the solution to this long ago

what you do is make the basic figure have a head as part of the figure the way armada side ways did but you put the new head over it or push it down -what ever works and they are just additional heads they can use with different abilities -put the stat meter in the chest -also as for customizing make a set of shell formers all of them have the same basic transform but you can get new shells arms and legs or bodies and head and mix and match
So, the heads would just give the bodies different abilities? How would such a gimmick be engineered into the figure? If it's just a stat meter like the G1 toys had, how many kids really adhered to those instead of just playing with them however they wanted to?

It sounds to me like the best way this could work would be for them to be like the Armada toys, only far more complex with each head activating a different gimmick like how the Mini-Cons did for those toys, only here it'd be far more specific as to which gimmick is activated by which head. Thing is, though, that kind of them might be way too complicated to work into a figure that has to both transform and have good articulation without some major sacrifices and compromises.


When one thinks about it, what purpose does the very concept of Headmasters boil down to? Taking off one's head? Well, what good does that really do for the big guy? Nearly every time this concept has shown up in the fiction, it's almost always felt hokey and forced:
  • Marvel Comics having them remove their heads as a sign of surrender seemed very extreme and out of nowhere.
  • "The Rebirth" coming up with the partner idea felt bizarre for them to suddenly go, "Hey, let's put these guys into our heads!" when the result was no different than just giving the Nebulans some armor and weapons to use.
  • The Headmasters cartoon tried its best to make sense out of them by having the heads be the real dudes and the bodies be lifeless mech suits that they control, but the same result could have instead been had from just building bigger bodies and transferring the minds/souls of the little guys into those larger bodies.
  • Dreamwave's MTMTE books just borrowed elements from the above, rather than coming up with something new, and didn't make any further sense out of what they took from.
  • IDW went created the idea of Headmasters being a sort of abomination mixture of human and machine, but still didn't really give any logical reason the human operators to transform into the heads of the larger robots instead of simply operating from a cockpit located in the torso, which would have been more practical.
BUT, of all the instances of Headmasters, I think that the way both Armada Sideways and Animated's Headmaster used the concept made the most sense: They both turned the concept into a means of possessing and controlling the larger body as an unwilling victim. In both cases, it was essentially a modified form of brainwashing or puppetry, in which Mirror possessed Sidways and Masterson possessed whoever's body he beheaded and hijacked. Sure, the method of possession probably could have been done in some other way, but if there HAS to be SOME kind of purpose behind the Headmaster concept, possession by a puppet master feels the most sensical to me. :D
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby xyl360 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:08 pm

Sabrblade wrote:I do, however, believe the concept of blindpacked -master figures could work well for Targetmasters since, unlike heads, handheld weaponry isn't a vital component of a figure and serves the purpose of both what it is and what blindpacked -master figures would be: Accessories.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is very much like Takara's old Micron Booster packs and Hasbro's current Kreon Micro-Changer blindpacks (only with those just being little guys in and of themselves rather than little partners/accessories for bigger toys). ;)

xyl360 wrote:What if they are sold as "Protoforms" and they have a built in protoform head which is somewhat generic, no faction out of the box, then you get blindpack heads which customize their looks and determine their allegiance?
Not sure how marketable "nobodies" would be by themselves since those toys would be the main focus of the line while the blindpacks would just serve as accessories.

chaosmage42 wrote:i have come up with the solution to this long ago

what you do is make the basic figure have a head as part of the figure the way armada side ways did but you put the new head over it or push it down -what ever works and they are just additional heads they can use with different abilities -put the stat meter in the chest -also as for customizing make a set of shell formers all of them have the same basic transform but you can get new shells arms and legs or bodies and head and mix and match
So, the heads would just give the bodies different abilities? How would such a gimmick be engineered into the figure? If it's just a stat meter like the G1 toys had, how many kids really adhered to those instead of just playing with them however they wanted to?

It sounds to me like the best way this could work would be for them to be like the Armada toys, only far more complex with each head activating a different gimmick like how the Mini-Cons did for those toys, only here it'd be far more specific as to which gimmick is activated by which head. Thing is, though, that kind of them might be way too complicated to work into a figure that has to both transform and have good articulation without some major sacrifices and compromises.


When one thinks about it, what purpose does the very concept of Headmasters boil down to? Taking off one's head? Well, what good does that really do for the big guy? Nearly every time this concept has shown up in the fiction, it's almost always felt hokey and forced:
  • Marvel Comics having them remove their heads as a sign of surrender seemed very extreme and out of nowhere.
  • "The Rebirth" coming up with the partner idea felt bizarre for them to suddenly go, "Hey, let's put these guys into our heads!" when the result was no different than just giving the Nebulans some armor and weapons to use.
  • The Headmasters cartoon tried its best to make sense out of them by having the heads be the real dudes and the bodies be lifeless mech suits that they control, but the same result could have instead been had from just building bigger bodies and transferring the minds/souls of the little guys into those larger bodies.
  • Dreamwave's MTMTE books just borrowed elements from the above, rather than coming up with something new, and didn't make any further sense out of what they took from.
  • IDW went created the idea of Headmasters being a sort of abomination mixture of human and machine, but still didn't really give any logical reason the human operators to transform into the heads of the larger robots instead of simply operating from a cockpit located in the torso, which would have been more practical.
BUT, of all the instances of Headmasters, I think that the way both Armada Sideways and Animated's Headmaster used the concept made the most sense: They both turned the concept into a means of possessing and controlling the larger body as an unwilling victim. In both cases, it was essentially a modified form of brainwashing or puppetry, in which Mirror possessed Sidways and Masterson possessed whoever's body he beheaded and hijacked. Sure, the method of possession probably could have been done in some other way, but if there HAS to be SOME kind of purpose behind the Headmaster concept, possession by a puppet master feels the most sensical to me. :D

Yeah, but could you see an Autobot/good guy "possessing" an unwilling host like that? Seems kinda shady to me and they'd certainly want to do Decepticon and Autobot Headmasters.

I still think the generic bot body with heads separate works because of the customization and creativity it allows for. It has the same appeal as things like Battle Beasts, Botshots and Spychangers where you never know if it's an Autobot or a Decepticon until you pop the head in and see what faction symbol pops up, then you know whose side that head is on :).
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:13 pm

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xyl360 wrote:Yeah, but could you see an Autobot/good guy "possessing" an unwilling host like that? Seems kinda shady to me and they'd certainly want to do Decepticon and Autobot Headmasters.
Good thing I was only envisioning bad guys doing it, since it still seems pretty hokey in and of itself. :P

xyl360 wrote:I still think the generic bot body with heads separate works because of the customization and creativity it allows for. It has the same appeal as things like Battle Beasts, Botshots and Spychangers where you never know if it's an Autobot or a Decepticon until you pop the head in and see what faction symbol pops up, then you know whose side that head is on :).
At the same time, though, that kind of thing works best for a secondary line rather than a main line, or a subline of the main line, since the main lines have to have definite characters for their media (cartoons, movies, etc.) to promote. If the toys are all generics, then that isn't something that can be marketed well enough via a show/movie if all the main characters are John Does. ;)
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Re: I want headmaster and target blind packs

Postby xyl360 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:18 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
xyl360 wrote:Yeah, but could you see an Autobot/good guy "possessing" an unwilling host like that? Seems kinda shady to me and they'd certainly want to do Decepticon and Autobot Headmasters.
Good thing I was only envisioning bad guys doing it, since it still seems pretty hokey in and of itself. :P

xyl360 wrote:I still think the generic bot body with heads separate works because of the customization and creativity it allows for. It has the same appeal as things like Battle Beasts, Botshots and Spychangers where you never know if it's an Autobot or a Decepticon until you pop the head in and see what faction symbol pops up, then you know whose side that head is on :).
At the same time, though, that kind of thing works best for a secondary line rather than a main line, or a subline of the main line, since the main lines have to have definite characters for their media (cartoons, movies, etc.) to promote. If the toys are all generics, then that isn't something that can be marketed well enough via a show/movie if all the main characters are John Does. ;)

That's my point, the bots aren't the characters at all, the heads are :D! It's like Power Rangers and such where the main focus is on the actual human characters who "drive" the Zords/giant robots, not the giant robot bodies they inhabit/use. That's what the Japanese Transector concept was all about (as you rightly pointed out) and that's what I'd like to see for Headmasters because it makes the most sense to me (a headless body with a personality always seemed kinda weird to me unless you're in Sleepy Hollow :P).

So basically you'd have armies of "head" bots who are the good guys and the bad guys and they use these transforming vehicles/whatever as their weapons to fight their war and it just so happens that these vehicles they use (and steal from one another, hence the head-swapping) transform into robots who they control by transforming into their heads.

Think Diaclone, it's a lot like that.
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